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Let's get this straight once and for all: every Western country fucked up.
This is a combination of a government that's too caught up in its popularity, while its citizens are too entitled.
We don't see the sociological impacts in Asians countries (how has their younger population coped with lockdowns for example), but we should stop bickerig among ourselves about this country or that country or whatever weird kind of fucked up dick measuring contest you're all doing and just accept it's all fucked.
The best thing a government could've done is build a framework for future crises like this while also dissecting the shit out of every aspect of this.
Instead, we get patchwork and running after the facts. Every Western government should be collectively fired for gross incompetence.
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On December 10 2020 15:43 Uldridge wrote:
Let's get this straight once and for all: every Western country fucked up.
This is a combination of a government that's too caught up in its popularity, while its citizens are too entitled.
We don't see the sociological impacts in Asians countries (how has their younger population coped with lockdowns for example), but we should stop bickerig among ourselves about this country or that country or whatever weird kind of fucked up dick measuring contest you're all doing and just accept it's all fucked.
The best thing a government could've done is build a framework for future crises like this while also dissecting the shit out of every aspect of this.
Instead, we get patchwork and running after the facts. Every Western government should be collectively fired for gross incompetence.
Japan has reported some very alarming suicide numbers, dwarfing the death toll of Covid, so Asia has sociological problems as well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html
I believe not having dealt with a pandemic like this in a very long time, and having values like mobility and individual freedom makes dealing with this more difficult in Europe. But let's face it, that vast majority of working people infected are barely sick enough to not work or not symptomatic at all. I would not blame governments alone, and I am not worried long term.
Overloading the hospitals must be avoided, of course, but this is no plague.
Edit: added link
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Absolutely it's difficult. Western society prides itself on individual freedom, which can be great when things operate smoothly, but sure enough cracks start to show as soon as restrictions on that individual freedom are a necessity. We have not developed the infrastructure or a rulebook on how to effectively cope with these kinds of situations. Now is the time to learn how to prevent the disastrous socio-economic and health impacts this thing has done, but I don't think it's actually being done.
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I actually think we're going to be living with covid long-term. There are just too many non-compliant people in western societies, including people who won't take a vaccine if offered, to be able to eradicate the disease. Any immunity from a vaccine is temporary, so it'll just keep coming back.
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On December 10 2020 19:07 EnDeR_ wrote:
I actually think we're going to be living with covid long-term. There are just too many non-compliant people in western societies, including people who won't take a vaccine if offered, to be able to eradicate the disease. Any immunity from a vaccine is temporary, so it'll just keep coming back.
I also don't think it will go away, as I don't know any widespread diseases which have done so. BUT, with that many vaccines in development and treatment having improved a lot already, I am not worried. How seasonal the and deadly the virus will be remains to be seen, but we won't see another 2020.
Most pandemics of the past are non issues today.
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On December 10 2020 20:12 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2020 19:07 EnDeR_ wrote:
I actually think we're going to be living with covid long-term. There are just too many non-compliant people in western societies, including people who won't take a vaccine if offered, to be able to eradicate the disease. Any immunity from a vaccine is temporary, so it'll just keep coming back. I also don't think it will go away, as I don't know any widespread diseases which have done so. BUT, with that many vaccines in development and treatment having improved a lot already, I am not worried. How seasonal the and deadly the virus will be remains to be seen, but we won't see another 2020.Most pandemics of the past are non issues today.
Agreed. Fast forwarding to 2022 and later years, I wonder if we'll simply receive the annual reminder "Don't forget to get your seasonal coronavirus shot alongside your seasonal flu shot!"
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On December 10 2020 20:12 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2020 19:07 EnDeR_ wrote:
I actually think we're going to be living with covid long-term. There are just too many non-compliant people in western societies, including people who won't take a vaccine if offered, to be able to eradicate the disease. Any immunity from a vaccine is temporary, so it'll just keep coming back. I also don't think it will go away, as I don't know any widespread diseases which have done so. BUT, with that many vaccines in development and treatment having improved a lot already, I am not worried. How seasonal the and deadly the virus will be remains to be seen, but we won't see another 2020. Most pandemics of the past are non issues today.
Smallpox got eradicated and some diseases such as polio are eradicated from large parts of the world. Considering the amount of investment eradicating Covid seems possible.
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United States10055 Posts
On December 10 2020 17:17 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2020 15:43 Uldridge wrote:
Let's get this straight once and for all: every Western country fucked up.
This is a combination of a government that's too caught up in its popularity, while its citizens are too entitled.
We don't see the sociological impacts in Asians countries (how has their younger population coped with lockdowns for example), but we should stop bickerig among ourselves about this country or that country or whatever weird kind of fucked up dick measuring contest you're all doing and just accept it's all fucked.
The best thing a government could've done is build a framework for future crises like this while also dissecting the shit out of every aspect of this.
Instead, we get patchwork and running after the facts. Every Western government should be collectively fired for gross incompetence. Japan has reported some very alarming suicide numbers, dwarfing the death toll of Covid, so Asia has sociological problems as well. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/28/asia/japan-suicide-women-covid-dst-intl-hnk/index.html I believe not having dealt with a pandemic like this in a very long time, and having values like mobility and individual freedom makes dealing with this more difficult in Europe. But let's face it, that vast majority of working people infected are barely sick enough to not work or not symptomatic at all. I would not blame governments alone, and I am not worried long term. Overloading the hospitals must be avoided, of course, but this is no plague. Edit: added link
Asian countries in general have some really bad mental health. Mental health is always overlooked and even ridiculed, moreso than the Western world. They have higher expectations on their people as well.
Dr. K said it best tho in his tribute to Rekful, we can always replace your physical body parts, we can't do anything for your mental/brain.
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On December 11 2020 03:23 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2020 20:12 Slydie wrote:On December 10 2020 19:07 EnDeR_ wrote:
I actually think we're going to be living with covid long-term. There are just too many non-compliant people in western societies, including people who won't take a vaccine if offered, to be able to eradicate the disease. Any immunity from a vaccine is temporary, so it'll just keep coming back. I also don't think it will go away, as I don't know any widespread diseases which have done so. BUT, with that many vaccines in development and treatment having improved a lot already, I am not worried. How seasonal the and deadly the virus will be remains to be seen, but we won't see another 2020. Most pandemics of the past are non issues today. Smallpox got eradicated and some diseases such as polio are eradicated from large parts of the world. Considering the amount of investment eradicating Covid seems possible.
But a lot of other diseases didn't get eradicated, like the common cold, random flus, or AIDS. This leads me to the conclusion that some diseases are easier to get rid of than others, and i have no clue into which category covid falls. I think it is too early to claim that it should be possible to get rid of it completely, or that it won't be possible to get rid of it at all.
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On December 11 2020 06:21 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2020 03:23 RvB wrote:On December 10 2020 20:12 Slydie wrote:On December 10 2020 19:07 EnDeR_ wrote:
I actually think we're going to be living with covid long-term. There are just too many non-compliant people in western societies, including people who won't take a vaccine if offered, to be able to eradicate the disease. Any immunity from a vaccine is temporary, so it'll just keep coming back. I also don't think it will go away, as I don't know any widespread diseases which have done so. BUT, with that many vaccines in development and treatment having improved a lot already, I am not worried. How seasonal the and deadly the virus will be remains to be seen, but we won't see another 2020. Most pandemics of the past are non issues today. Smallpox got eradicated and some diseases such as polio are eradicated from large parts of the world. Considering the amount of investment eradicating Covid seems possible. But a lot of other diseases didn't get eradicated, like the common cold, random flus, or AIDS. This leads me to the conclusion that some diseases are easier to get rid of than others, and i have no clue into which category covid falls. I think it is too early to claim that it should be possible to get rid of it completely, or that it won't be possible to get rid of it at all.
The cold and the flu can't be eradicated because their continued prevalence is due to rapid strain mutation that requires new vaccines not seen in other viruses.
HIV doesn't have a vaccine at all.
While I think you're right that it's too early to call, there's definitely a feasible path to eliminating COVID a la polio.
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On December 11 2020 06:21 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2020 03:23 RvB wrote:On December 10 2020 20:12 Slydie wrote:On December 10 2020 19:07 EnDeR_ wrote:
I actually think we're going to be living with covid long-term. There are just too many non-compliant people in western societies, including people who won't take a vaccine if offered, to be able to eradicate the disease. Any immunity from a vaccine is temporary, so it'll just keep coming back. I also don't think it will go away, as I don't know any widespread diseases which have done so. BUT, with that many vaccines in development and treatment having improved a lot already, I am not worried. How seasonal the and deadly the virus will be remains to be seen, but we won't see another 2020. Most pandemics of the past are non issues today. Smallpox got eradicated and some diseases such as polio are eradicated from large parts of the world. Considering the amount of investment eradicating Covid seems possible. But a lot of other diseases didn't get eradicated, like the common cold, random flus, or AIDS. This leads me to the conclusion that some diseases are easier to get rid of than others, and i have no clue into which category covid falls. I think it is too early to claim that it should be possible to get rid of it completely, or that it won't be possible to get rid of it at all.
Take this with the proper amount of random poster on the internet salt, but I have heard directly from a forensic pathologist that serves as a county director of health that it is more likely than not that COVID will eventually become a seasonal illness that is dealt with in a fashion similar to the flu. That person also strongly emphasized that it is too early to tell one way or another, the seasonal rate of mutation and community embeddedness are still not understood well enough.
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I think what farva said is the most likely outcome. And if you're using polio as an example, how long did it take to eradicate it, globally? We still get the measles and yellow fever here and there. Not to mention some other exotic strains of viruses that we thought we had gotten rid of. Bubonic plague is somehow still around.
Eradicating this thing isn't going to be on the cards for a long time, mostly due to pharma (conspiracy) and it won't get the necessary injection rate (the "but muh freedumbs!?!" crowd). This is something we'll be dealing with through the decade as hot spots pop up left and right. I see if being worse than the flu in terms of deaths yearly.
I'm just curious how we'll go back to interacting with each other come the new year and beyond. Because if someone sneezes in my general vicinity, I'm catching a case.
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On December 11 2020 06:50 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I think what farva said is the most likely outcome. And if you're using polio as an example, how long did it take to eradicate it, globally? We still get the measles and yellow fever here and there. Not to mention some other exotic strains of viruses that we thought we had gotten rid of. Bubonic plague is somehow still around.
Eradicating this thing isn't going to be on the cards for a long time, mostly due to pharma (conspiracy) and it won't get the necessary injection rate (the "but muh freedumbs!?!" crowd). This is something we'll be dealing with through the decade as hot spots pop up left and right. I see if being worse than the flu in terms of deaths yearly.
I'm just curious how we'll go back to interacting with each other come the new year and beyond. Because if someone sneezes in my general vicinity, I'm catching a case.
Nothing should change concerning social interaction.
It will take well into next summer for a meaningful amount of the population to become vaccinated.
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Eliminating covid ala polio will take billions of vaccines being sent to nations that can't pay for it.
Children will get it as apart of the schedule and some will die beacuse their parents don't believe in covid and it'll be normalized in less then a decade for us.
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United States42014 Posts
Plague etc. are still around because they have animal hosts that don’t come in for treatment. We wipe it out in humans but it uses them as a life raft and comes back.
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On December 11 2020 06:50 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I think what farva said is the most likely outcome. And if you're using polio as an example, how long did it take to eradicate it, globally? We still get the measles and yellow fever here and there. Not to mention some other exotic strains of viruses that we thought we had gotten rid of. Bubonic plague is somehow still around.
Eradicating this thing isn't going to be on the cards for a long time, mostly due to pharma (conspiracy) and it won't get the necessary injection rate (the "but muh freedumbs!?!" crowd). This is something we'll be dealing with through the decade as hot spots pop up left and right. I see if being worse than the flu in terms of deaths yearly.
I'm just curious how we'll go back to interacting with each other come the new year and beyond. Because if someone sneezes in my general vicinity, I'm catching a case.
It took 6 years to eradicate polio.
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Someone really needs to encourage Trump to google historical elections before he claims that no president has ever lost who won X states that he won...he's apparently walked back his Ohio and Florida into Ohio, Florida, and Iowa. But that's still wrong!
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Pretty sure that Trump is just keeping up the pretense to pocket as much donation money as he can on the way out. Haven't they raised like 200 million or something? Have to admit, his con artistry is pretty impressive some times.
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On December 10 2020 15:43 Uldridge wrote:
Let's get this straight once and for all: every Western country fucked up.
This is a combination of a government that's too caught up in its popularity, while its citizens are too entitled.
We don't see the sociological impacts in Asians countries (how has their younger population coped with lockdowns for example), but we should stop bickerig among ourselves about this country or that country or whatever weird kind of fucked up dick measuring contest you're all doing and just accept it's all fucked.
The best thing a government could've done is build a framework for future crises like this while also dissecting the shit out of every aspect of this.
Instead, we get patchwork and running after the facts. Every Western government should be collectively fired for gross incompetence.
Either everyone is stupid and incompetent or the virus is very, very hard to deal with. It's true that we were all unprepared, but it's exceedingly hard to be prepared for something like that.
I find that the norwegian government has done reaaaaally well to keep the country and its people safe. Granted the task was easier than elsewhere but imo they have been remarkably efficient (mind you I don't like them at all).
Altogether the virus had all the ingredients to make an absolute carnage. The fact that it didn't (relatively speaking) is actually a huge success.
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On December 11 2020 15:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2020 15:43 Uldridge wrote:
Let's get this straight once and for all: every Western country fucked up.
This is a combination of a government that's too caught up in its popularity, while its citizens are too entitled.
We don't see the sociological impacts in Asians countries (how has their younger population coped with lockdowns for example), but we should stop bickerig among ourselves about this country or that country or whatever weird kind of fucked up dick measuring contest you're all doing and just accept it's all fucked.
The best thing a government could've done is build a framework for future crises like this while also dissecting the shit out of every aspect of this.
Instead, we get patchwork and running after the facts. Every Western government should be collectively fired for gross incompetence. Either everyone is stupid and incompetent or the virus is very, very hard to deal with. It's true that we were all unprepared, but it's exceedingly hard to be prepared for something like that. I find that the norwegian government has done reaaaaally well to keep the country and its people safe. Granted the task was easier than elsewhere but imo they have been remarkably efficient (mind you I don't like them at all). Altogether the virus had all the ingredients to make an absolute carnage. The fact that it didn't (relatively speaking) is actually a huge success.
I think the biggest issue is the liberty of the people in western countries. Basically I think as a politician you're very limited in what you can do because you need the support and understanding of the people. You're very limited in actually enforcing rules when the people dont follow them compared to less liberal countries, so you basically have to wait until it gets worse before you're able to act in more drastic ways. To be honest I think the issue here is more the people in western countries than the governments.
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EPT
