• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:03
CEST 14:03
KST 21:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?10FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event14Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster14Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) WardiTV Mondays SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Unit and Spell Similarities
Tourneys
[BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 713 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2874

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2872 2873 2874 2875 2876 5073 Next
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-02 20:07:17
December 02 2020 20:05 GMT
#57461
Policy slogans are uniformly pretty terrible in 2020, but they pretty much always have been. It's just that today instead of focus grouped dishwater they're driven by social media engagement more than ever before, which means they're farther from reality than ever before because there's no incentive to approximate reality on social media. Look no further than "Medicare for All" as a slogan when your policy is not, in fact, Medicare for all (because actually giving everyone Medicare is not a good approach to the problem since, you know, Medicare requires premiums for two major parts of coverage).
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
December 02 2020 20:10 GMT
#57462
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


Man who ran on 'yes we can' says snappy slogan is not a good plan.

This is a dumb game you can play with any slogan. It's a slogan, not a detailed policy description.
From the article "The slogan refers to reallocating funding for police departments to social services for minority communities." Still not very specific, but there's a little more there.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15646 Posts
December 02 2020 20:37 GMT
#57463
On December 03 2020 05:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


Man who ran on 'yes we can' says snappy slogan is not a good plan.

This is a dumb game you can play with any slogan. It's a slogan, not a detailed policy description.
From the article "The slogan refers to reallocating funding for police departments to social services for minority communities." Still not very specific, but there's a little more there.


Its not bad because it was snappy, its bad because it implies something that's totally outrageous to like 70% of the country.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10135 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-02 20:40:10
December 02 2020 20:39 GMT
#57464
On December 03 2020 05:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


Man who ran on 'yes we can' says snappy slogan is not a good plan.

This is a dumb game you can play with any slogan. It's a slogan, not a detailed policy description.
From the article "The slogan refers to reallocating funding for police departments to social services for minority communities." Still not very specific, but there's a little more there.

Imagine comparing "Yes we can" which, on it's face, literally is just about working together to achieve a goal, to "Defund the police". Are you actually serious about this comment, or are you just a troll?
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
December 02 2020 21:00 GMT
#57465
On December 03 2020 04:51 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


It means two different things to two different camps.

Most progressives see it as "cut police budgets to put money into alternative programs".

However, some that are on the more extreme side see it as "abolish the police", and accuse the former of co-opting the term in a manner that has racial undertones.

"abolish the police" is a TL.net only thing.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21633 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-02 21:03:16
December 02 2020 21:02 GMT
#57466
On December 03 2020 05:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


Man who ran on 'yes we can' says snappy slogan is not a good plan.

This is a dumb game you can play with any slogan. It's a slogan, not a detailed policy description.
From the article "The slogan refers to reallocating funding for police departments to social services for minority communities." Still not very specific, but there's a little more there.
Snappy slogans tend to leave room for interpretation.
"yes we can" can be filled in any which way but it will generally always be positive.
"Defund the police" is snappy but draws a lot of bad assumptions that will turn people away. I don't want to defund the police, I want to reform them. They need to stop executing citizens in cold blood, shoot less innocent people, less racial profiling, better training ect ect. They need money to do that, so please don't defund them. *proceeds to vote against defund the police candidate.

Its why MAGA also worked. Its a generic slogan that the listener can insert whatever they want and feel good.
"Make America racist again" wouldn't have had the same impact, despite being just as snappy.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-02 21:12:10
December 02 2020 21:10 GMT
#57467
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15646 Posts
December 02 2020 22:39 GMT
#57468
On December 03 2020 06:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 04:51 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


It means two different things to two different camps.

Most progressives see it as "cut police budgets to put money into alternative programs".

However, some that are on the more extreme side see it as "abolish the police", and accuse the former of co-opting the term in a manner that has racial undertones.

"abolish the police" is a TL.net only thing.


Not even close. Huge support throughout the west coast. The two Portland city mayor candidates recently intended to hugely defund police. They ended up with >50% of total vote but split the vote and the incumbent won lollll
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13873 Posts
December 02 2020 23:22 GMT
#57469
After watching Trumps youtube speech man its gone way over the edge. We're way into "man even the nazi's were subtle about it" territory.

A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15646 Posts
December 02 2020 23:35 GMT
#57470
It seems like Trump and the weird section of republican party are essentially saying "Since no one would possibly reject Trump while still voting Republican in other areas, this is 1000% fraud"
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7288 Posts
December 02 2020 23:44 GMT
#57471
On December 03 2020 05:39 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 05:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


Man who ran on 'yes we can' says snappy slogan is not a good plan.

This is a dumb game you can play with any slogan. It's a slogan, not a detailed policy description.
From the article "The slogan refers to reallocating funding for police departments to social services for minority communities." Still not very specific, but there's a little more there.

Imagine comparing "Yes we can" which, on it's face, literally is just about working together to achieve a goal, to "Defund the police". Are you actually serious about this comment, or are you just a troll?


To achieve what goal? "Yes we can" is an utterly meaningless slogan, Obama's time post-presidentially has indicated he never actually believed in anything, every time hes in the news I get more and more suspect he ever cared about accomplishing fuck all.

At least "defund the police" actually indicates that we should defund the police, obviously its very hard to articulate all of a policy via three words, but its the important part of the general goal to defund the police and fund various social programs to help prevent people from falling into criminality. There is no slogan that will completely convey this idea and also get away with not being attacked by Republicans as "THEY WANT ACTUAL VIOLENT ANARCHY!"

Criticizing slogans is just lazy, its the way people go about easily dismissing everything without having to engage with it, and someone as intelligent as Obama should do better.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-02 23:59:16
December 02 2020 23:47 GMT
#57472
On December 03 2020 03:31 Mohdoo wrote:
I really think Trump has no option other than martial law. People are wrong to think that he is even slightly comfortable with the idea of losing his legal immunity. So much stuff is waiting for him the moment he isn't president, and given his age, its no surprise he basically has nothing to lose. Let's say his coup doesn't work, what will really happen? His quality of life will basically be totally over once he isn't president as things currently stand.


Curious since i've read it a few times now.

Can he actually pre-emptively pardon himself and his crotch spawns for "stuff"?

At least "defund the police" actually indicates that we should defund the police, obviously its very hard to articulate all of a policy via three words, but its the important part of the general goal to defund the police and fund various social programs to help prevent people from falling into criminality. There is no slogan that will completely convey this idea and also get away with not being attacked by Republicans as "THEY WANT ACTUAL VIOLENT ANARCHY!"


Except that's not the real goal, is it. The slogan is absolutely idiotic because it can be construed to mean "libruls want violent anarchy" without even trying. It's literally what the slogan says.

In fact, "defunding the police" is entirely misleading in the first place. It's not about defunding the police but shifting responsibilities away from the police. By defunding it. Defunding is the means, not the goal. This isn't even mentioning that defunding the police doesn't in fact mean increased funding for social care, mental health etc. It means literally "get rid of police".


It's like running "PAY YOUR TAXES" as a slogan to increase funding for healthcare. It's absolutely idiotic.

edit: hell, "FUND SOCIAL CARE" makes miles more sense as a slogan. Only hardcore dickheads would argue that social care is unnecessary, whereas a lot of people would argue against "defunding the police" even while supporting increased funding for social care. Except of course "defund the police" requires them to read into all kinds of shit to figure out that "well we don't really mean defund, we mean kinda reform, while taking money away for military toys, to fund mental health programs, social care and stuff".

The only reason why you'd think that this slogan is great is simply because "your" team came up with it. Objectively its horseshit.
On track to MA1950A.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15646 Posts
December 02 2020 23:54 GMT
#57473
On December 03 2020 08:47 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 03:31 Mohdoo wrote:
I really think Trump has no option other than martial law. People are wrong to think that he is even slightly comfortable with the idea of losing his legal immunity. So much stuff is waiting for him the moment he isn't president, and given his age, its no surprise he basically has nothing to lose. Let's say his coup doesn't work, what will really happen? His quality of life will basically be totally over once he isn't president as things currently stand.


Curious since i've read it a few times now.

Can he actually pre-emptively pardon himself and his crotch spawns for "stuff"?


Only federal crimes. He has enough state level stuff that will ruin his life at this point that its kinda GG either way.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
December 02 2020 23:55 GMT
#57474
On December 03 2020 08:54 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 08:47 m4ini wrote:
On December 03 2020 03:31 Mohdoo wrote:
I really think Trump has no option other than martial law. People are wrong to think that he is even slightly comfortable with the idea of losing his legal immunity. So much stuff is waiting for him the moment he isn't president, and given his age, its no surprise he basically has nothing to lose. Let's say his coup doesn't work, what will really happen? His quality of life will basically be totally over once he isn't president as things currently stand.


Curious since i've read it a few times now.

Can he actually pre-emptively pardon himself and his crotch spawns for "stuff"?


Only federal crimes. He has enough state level stuff that will ruin his life at this point that its kinda GG either way.


Cheers, reassuring. No idea how the presidency works in that regard, apart from being rather.. idiotic.

The entire concept of presidential pardoning seems weird to me, putting the presidents word above the law.
On track to MA1950A.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13873 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-03 00:12:12
December 03 2020 00:06 GMT
#57475
Even pre-emptive pardoning is pretty tenious at best. Nixon's pardon was never tested and it was just accepted as a way to let the nation heal and move on while still admitting guilt.


I think the idea of a pardon is one of those things that seems clearly and obviously abusable but is really nothing worse than the entire rest of the system. Its a lot like how France is able to grant instant citizenship to the heroes of France or for heroic acts despite not being a french citizen in the first place.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7218 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-03 00:30:00
December 03 2020 00:29 GMT
#57476
On December 03 2020 01:51 Nevuk wrote:
Freshly off being pardoned, Flynn took out a full page ad calling for suspending the constitution, invoking martial law, and holding a new election. Sidney Powell, lunatic lawyer fired by Trump's re-election team for being too bonkers, has backed the call as well.

This was always where this was going to go. It was basically the only actual strategy for getting him a second term after he lost the election so badly.

It's not going to happen, but is a continuation of the crack in the foundations that are Trump and his enabler's dictatorial tendencies.



Sidney Powell:
[image loading]




This is batshit stuff right here. During some of my driving today I skimmed through conservative radio on XM (Fox news, Triumph, Patriot, etc) all they are doing is talking about shit like this. Its frightening. These people know no bounds. People ARE going to be killed or mamed over this type of talk.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7218 Posts
December 03 2020 00:32 GMT
#57477
On December 03 2020 05:05 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Policy slogans are uniformly pretty terrible in 2020, but they pretty much always have been. It's just that today instead of focus grouped dishwater they're driven by social media engagement more than ever before, which means they're farther from reality than ever before because there's no incentive to approximate reality on social media. Look no further than "Medicare for All" as a slogan when your policy is not, in fact, Medicare for all (because actually giving everyone Medicare is not a good approach to the problem since, you know, Medicare requires premiums for two major parts of coverage).



Medicare for all is a way better slogan than Single Payer or National Health insurance.

Medicare has issues and should be fixed but no one currently on Medicare would willingly give it up. Medicare polls great.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7288 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-12-03 00:54:56
December 03 2020 00:46 GMT
#57478
On December 03 2020 08:47 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 03:31 Mohdoo wrote:
I really think Trump has no option other than martial law. People are wrong to think that he is even slightly comfortable with the idea of losing his legal immunity. So much stuff is waiting for him the moment he isn't president, and given his age, its no surprise he basically has nothing to lose. Let's say his coup doesn't work, what will really happen? His quality of life will basically be totally over once he isn't president as things currently stand.


Curious since i've read it a few times now.

Can he actually pre-emptively pardon himself and his crotch spawns for "stuff"?

Show nested quote +
At least "defund the police" actually indicates that we should defund the police, obviously its very hard to articulate all of a policy via three words, but its the important part of the general goal to defund the police and fund various social programs to help prevent people from falling into criminality. There is no slogan that will completely convey this idea and also get away with not being attacked by Republicans as "THEY WANT ACTUAL VIOLENT ANARCHY!"


Except that's not the real goal, is it. The slogan is absolutely idiotic because it can be construed to mean "libruls want violent anarchy" without even trying. It's literally what the slogan says.

In fact, "defunding the police" is entirely misleading in the first place. It's not about defunding the police but shifting responsibilities away from the police. By defunding it. Defunding is the means, not the goal. This isn't even mentioning that defunding the police doesn't in fact mean increased funding for social care, mental health etc. It means literally "get rid of police".


It's like running "PAY YOUR TAXES" as a slogan to increase funding for healthcare. It's absolutely idiotic.

edit: hell, "FUND SOCIAL CARE" makes miles more sense as a slogan. Only hardcore dickheads would argue that social care is unnecessary, whereas a lot of people would argue against "defunding the police" even while supporting increased funding for social care. Except of course "defund the police" requires them to read into all kinds of shit to figure out that "well we don't really mean defund, we mean kinda reform, while taking money away for military toys, to fund mental health programs, social care and stuff".

The only reason why you'd think that this slogan is great is simply because "your" team came up with it. Objectively its horseshit.


Objectively its subjective.

ALL slogans are fucking crappy, your slogan is dog shit too because funding social care completely ignores the bloated police budgets and their absurd militarization.

FUND SOCIAL CARE has significantly less targeted resonance among a society who is experiencing dramatic police brutality. Funding social care doesnt stem the tide of murder by the hands of an increasingly militarized police, it seems to completely sidestep "dont murder black people, cops." Well will you look at that, slogans dont convey every nuance of the complexity of policy, turns out thats the politician's job, to sell their constitutents on the ideas behind the slogans in a digestible way, but pretending that any slogan, including yours, is good is asinine.

"Only hardcore dickheads would argue social care is unnecessary" christ man, do you know what country we're talking about? Theres an entire political party with a large base that LOVES to argue that social care is unnecessary.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10135 Posts
December 03 2020 01:08 GMT
#57479
On December 03 2020 08:44 Zambrah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 05:39 FlaShFTW wrote:
On December 03 2020 05:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


Man who ran on 'yes we can' says snappy slogan is not a good plan.

This is a dumb game you can play with any slogan. It's a slogan, not a detailed policy description.
From the article "The slogan refers to reallocating funding for police departments to social services for minority communities." Still not very specific, but there's a little more there.

Imagine comparing "Yes we can" which, on it's face, literally is just about working together to achieve a goal, to "Defund the police". Are you actually serious about this comment, or are you just a troll?


To achieve what goal? "Yes we can" is an utterly meaningless slogan, Obama's time post-presidentially has indicated he never actually believed in anything, every time hes in the news I get more and more suspect he ever cared about accomplishing fuck all.

Jesus christ you've missed the point so hard.

At least "defund the police" actually indicates that we should defund the police, obviously its very hard to articulate all of a policy via three words, but its the important part of the general goal to defund the police and fund various social programs to help prevent people from falling into criminality. There is no slogan that will completely convey this idea and also get away with not being attacked by Republicans as "THEY WANT ACTUAL VIOLENT ANARCHY!"

Ok but again, not the point. Yes, of course a slogan doesn't articulate the entire point of the policy proposed, but it has to be at least approachable. No one is going to care about the important part of the goal if they're already off-put by the slogan. Again, you've missed the point of the use of slogans.

Criticizing slogans is just lazy, its the way people go about easily dismissing everything without having to engage with it, and someone as intelligent as Obama should do better.

You're also assuming that the average American is smart enough to read past the slogan that would translate into votes or supporters of said slogan. The average American is really, and I mean REALLY, dumb. We are incredibly intellectually lazy, and these people that you're trying to convince to vote for you/side with you, need these things heavily simplified and if that simplification isn't properly highlighting your important goal and it communicates, or appears to communicate, a totally different idea, then what's the point? Those people aren't going to see your "important goal", they're going to see something else and get mad at it. And let's not act like this is just Republicans screaming about the slogan, you've got people from solid always-Democrat voters all the way to the right saying the same thing. To call this criticism lazy shows that you have both missed the point and also don't understand how policy actually gets pushed through and how to convince voters. This is typical progressive style thinking which leads to them being laughed at and not taken seriously.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7288 Posts
December 03 2020 01:39 GMT
#57480
On December 03 2020 10:08 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2020 08:44 Zambrah wrote:
On December 03 2020 05:39 FlaShFTW wrote:
On December 03 2020 05:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On December 03 2020 04:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
So Obama just came out against the slogan of "Defund the Police" (but not necessarily the actual idea behind the slogan).

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/528266-obama-you-lose-people-with-snappy-slogans-like-defund-the-police

I've been saying this since I entered this thread, the left is piss poor at proper messaging and uniting behind an actual message. Wtf does "defund the police" even mean? All definitions that I find of "defund" mean to either withdraw funds or deplete financial resources. If it's the former, it's unclear if withdraw means absolute withdrawal or partial, since the definitions don't allude to that, and if it's the latter, that absolutely doesn't seem like a good policy goal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defund

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/defund


Man who ran on 'yes we can' says snappy slogan is not a good plan.

This is a dumb game you can play with any slogan. It's a slogan, not a detailed policy description.
From the article "The slogan refers to reallocating funding for police departments to social services for minority communities." Still not very specific, but there's a little more there.

Imagine comparing "Yes we can" which, on it's face, literally is just about working together to achieve a goal, to "Defund the police". Are you actually serious about this comment, or are you just a troll?


To achieve what goal? "Yes we can" is an utterly meaningless slogan, Obama's time post-presidentially has indicated he never actually believed in anything, every time hes in the news I get more and more suspect he ever cared about accomplishing fuck all.

Jesus christ you've missed the point so hard.


Show nested quote +
At least "defund the police" actually indicates that we should defund the police, obviously its very hard to articulate all of a policy via three words, but its the important part of the general goal to defund the police and fund various social programs to help prevent people from falling into criminality. There is no slogan that will completely convey this idea and also get away with not being attacked by Republicans as "THEY WANT ACTUAL VIOLENT ANARCHY!"

Ok but again, not the point. Yes, of course a slogan doesn't articulate the entire point of the policy proposed, but it has to be at least approachable. No one is going to care about the important part of the goal if they're already off-put by the slogan. Again, you've missed the point of the use of slogans.

Show nested quote +
Criticizing slogans is just lazy, its the way people go about easily dismissing everything without having to engage with it, and someone as intelligent as Obama should do better.

You're also assuming that the average American is smart enough to read past the slogan that would translate into votes or supporters of said slogan. The average American is really, and I mean REALLY, dumb. We are incredibly intellectually lazy, and these people that you're trying to convince to vote for you/side with you, need these things heavily simplified and if that simplification isn't properly highlighting your important goal and it communicates, or appears to communicate, a totally different idea, then what's the point? Those people aren't going to see your "important goal", they're going to see something else and get mad at it. And let's not act like this is just Republicans screaming about the slogan, you've got people from solid always-Democrat voters all the way to the right saying the same thing. To call this criticism lazy shows that you have both missed the point and also don't understand how policy actually gets pushed through and how to convince voters. This is typical progressive style thinking which leads to them being laughed at and not taken seriously.


This is the core of my problem, Obama is not the average american, Obama is PRECISELY the kind of person that needs to be doing MORE than just reiterating slogans, he is a popular politician who is gifted at articulating things in a way that Americans are capable of understanding, Obama is precisely the kind of person with a responsibility to take these slogans and make the policy behind them understood by Americans. When the people in Obama's position spend their time purely criticizing framing and ignoring the issue behind the framing we're left with an endless shitshow about why whatever slogan sucks.

They all suck, they're all reductive. Its like rioting, rioting is bad, noone WANTS to be in a situation where people are rioting, but criticizing the rioting is often used to ignore the reason why people are rioting. Slogans and catchphrases and shit are crappy and I wish we lived in a society where we could count on each other to trust our politicians to communicate clearly (and more importantly, communicate honestly) and trust each other to hold politicians to their word, to their stated policy be it on a website or be it from their mouths.

No slogan will ever get the goal of "stop the police from murdering people, black people in particular, so flagrantly" Defund the Police has its set of problems, but any slogan will, the fact that we're so focused on criticizing the phrasing of a slogan that we ALL know has a root belief of "STOP THE POPO KILLING BLACK PEOPLE" reads to me like the typical way of deflecting acknowledging whats causing these problems so we dont feel compelled to change anything.

We'll spend the entire public attention span debating the slogan and then it'll fade away from public consciousness with nothing having actually been done.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Prev 1 2872 2873 2874 2875 2876 5073 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#42
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 338
Lowko249
Rex 104
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 14332
Sea 3450
Flash 1791
Hyuk 511
Soma 426
Stork 395
Bisu 392
EffOrt 377
ToSsGirL 236
Mini 220
[ Show more ]
TY 212
Zeus 193
Hyun 189
Light 188
ZerO 144
Pusan 137
Snow 129
Soulkey 121
BeSt 88
hero 77
Sharp 62
Backho 53
Rush 49
Sea.KH 43
Mind 38
Aegong 34
Shinee 21
Movie 20
Shine 19
Yoon 19
sSak 18
Noble 17
Free 13
Icarus 12
scan(afreeca) 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Bale 5
Hm[arnc] 5
sas.Sziky 2
Britney 0
Dota 2
qojqva1621
420jenkins882
XaKoH 572
XcaliburYe475
BananaSlamJamma463
League of Legends
singsing2545
Counter-Strike
x6flipin688
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King144
Westballz21
Other Games
B2W.Neo543
crisheroes336
Pyrionflax250
Fuzer 198
DeMusliM163
hiko20
QueenE19
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick651
StarCraft 2
WardiTV516
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV487
League of Legends
• Stunt763
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
11h 57m
The PondCast
21h 57m
Replay Cast
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
3 days
FEL
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
5 days
BSL: ProLeague
5 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.