EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2759
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 18 2020 04:36 Nouar wrote: You mean the things being verified with multiple investigations from the FBI, CIA or congress ? Some of them being true, some being false ? The multiple non-anonymous books from nearly everyone that left the big boss ? Including his family ? The information from meetings with russians offering dirt (that were not even properly investigated btw) ? Those emails looked legit to me, fucking Trump junior tweeted them lol. Or the anonymous leaks about tax returns ? Do you believe them forged ? I have an issue with anonymous information when it comes from someone who HAS BEEN and IS BEING investigated for being the recipient of foreign disinformation campaigns, and who even seeked those out. The information itself is grossly insufficient and could have been forged by a 12yo. This is my field of work. I do have an issue when the "public at large" elect racist assholes that have no self-restraint and unhinged behaviour, because it IS causing immediate damage not only to your country, but to mine as well. The system we have might not be perfect and has issues of its own, but I am worried when all over the globe, people elect pieces of shit whose only purpose is to destroy what is and manipulate everything to their own benefit. Bolsonaro, Trump, Erdogan, Duterte, Lukashenko, (Johnson more or less). These guys don't care about their country, only about their power and legacy, and rip through laws to enpower themselves, in defiance of everyone. And somehow, they still have support from a decent part of the public. That is what I fear. They should be disqualified at a glance. People should not want to elect people that look or speak like them. I realise full well that someone like me is not fit to run a country, only crash it to the ground. I expect my leader, the top civil servant, to be the best the country can offer. Seems like it's too much to ask. I could care less if people elect progressives, liberals or conservatives, provided they are decent people. If they represent the will of the majority to go backwards on society, well that doesn't please me but I have no qualms with it. It's how it works. Destroying everything though... Alfa-bank. Comey never told Trump he wasn't being investigated. Russian bounties. Carter page conspiracy. Papadopoulos as go-between conspiracy. Flynn conspiracy. Macedonian "fake news" controversy. Cambridge analytica. Steele piss tapes. Cohen trip to prague. Adam Schiff's secret sources about collusion. The wiretaps not/on Trump. Trump badmouthing military. Donald Trump JR warned in advance about wikileaks. Trump campaign aides repeated contacts with Russian intelligence. Various anonymously sourced stories about Comey's-Trump contradicted by Comey's sworn testimony. Russian hacking electricity. Yep those ones. And lest we gish-gallop through all the allegations that you believe are confirmed, let me head you off a little here. Stack enough of a laundry list together, and you put me in the false position of defending all dozen+ of your implied, unknown, or actually stated issues to your satisfaction. It would take a book to detail all the hyped up, oversimplified, misstated, arguable, dead-on, and half-truths told about Trump and alleged about Trump. I am a veteran of the Russia hoax, and remember well the new investigations and allegations made after the last ones were debunked. Alfa-bank right after the previous debunk, and closely followed by a new selective leak by anonymous sources with shreds of evidence. Debunk the next one? You're already two days behind. I don't know if you'll ever have the time or disposition to sum up 2015-2020 stories, because that too would take a ton of time and require rejecting a lot of the premises you state here. Oh well. You're actually incredibly vulnerable to the same propaganda and election interference you supposedly oppose. Russia or China will drop something for their own hope of destabilizing the race and making Americans distrust the election process, and you're right on board heightening the destructive influence. You are made a pawn by this. Russia will always try to sow chaos, and people like you who say "he's being investigated for foreign disinformation campaigns, so I'm justified in discounting information from that team, and I'm justified in doubting their defenses" just can't form an accurate opinion on the balance of allegations and evidence. It's not much better than blind prejudice on your part. I don't think more than 5% of this forum even can grasp the state of the Republican party and left-right discourse in Obama's years starting around 2010 through 2016. All these racism allegations on the Tea Party, racism allegations on any opposition of Trump, racism allegations on rejecting the false Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin. Much of the Clinton-wing of the Democratic party expecting to talk down to the country about what it should value in order to remain moral. It was plain sickening and nobody acknowledges it. + Show Spoiler + (Let me pause to say, I know how bad our press is on foreign events, so I don't even know how much of this background was accurately conveyed to the citizens of Europe. Secondarily, my country is not centered as far left as Europe is, so many of my Republican views and concerns are likely dismissed or not appreciated by a different political landscape) You don't *get* to pick your leaders in a crisis like thumbing through a deck of cards and picking the ace of spades. CNN gave Trump all the free airtime (obnoxiously broadcasting an empty podium live instead of other competing primary campaigns) and MSNBC gave Trump all the call-in time he could want on Mika and Joe's morning show. I can't help that the legacy press (ABC/MSNBC/CBS/NYT/WaPo/TheAtlantic) was biased towards Hillary and sought to amplify Trump to give her an easier opponent. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make that primary season reduced earlier, almost like if Biden starting going against Sanders two weeks before Super Tuesday. The Republican party went with who they got to counter idiotic discourse on immigration, the War on Terror, activist vs originalist judges, trade (well, Trump made that one worse lol), and a host of other issues. That's how America got a very flawed president holding the torch against all the issues that spread like cancer in the Obama administration, instead of someone more message disciplined, that rejected false racism accusations without throwing a bunch of own-goals on that issue, and could articulate the reasons why conservatives support the policies they do. I have zero issues with the "public-at-large" voting Trump into office, because the public-at-large had been too taken for granted for too many years. More government spending on accepted minorities, less government attention towards poor whites dying in the opium epidemic and told they're privileged to boot. They had a choice to make a protest vote against the kind of elite-liberal established well-represented by Hillary Clinton, and by god, I think enough people made the right one across enough states to matter. It would've been back to the oppressive status quo in the Clinton administration, and all the bad actors in the intelligence agencies would have had their crimes covered-up like Comey et. al. knew they would. I think I've spent enough time in the thread criticizing Trump for people to know I have a lot of beef with those in my party that thing he's simply the greatest. He has very few qualities that are purely advantageous for what I want to see done in the country; they're all mixed with several nasty negatives. He can raise a perspective on an issue that desperately needs greater attention and discussion, but he tells several lies in the process and can't articulate the GOP side of the argument worth a damn. And I know the negatives are very off-putting, they really are. I don't blame any Republican voting for neither Trump nor Biden. I might not vote for either myself, I haven't really made up my mind on that one. Lastly, you probably already know that I think the system does a good enough job limiting Trump's excesses. And I've known a lot of decent men that were elected that have taken the country backwards. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On October 18 2020 09:18 Doodsmack wrote: I'm seeing multiple headlines on breitbart and yesterday it was the lead headline on the fox website. And how does Fox usually run with a story when they really want to drive it home? It'll be all over their site and channel for weeks. Seth Rich and Hillary + Obama's imminent downfall still make the occasional rounds. You know they're not fully backing this story like they usually do. There's probably a reason for that. | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On October 18 2020 09:30 Mohdoo wrote: Clinton emails were front page every single day for all outlets. What I am saying is that as time goes on, it gets more and more "yikes". Fox wants nothing more than Biden to lose. If they are playing it safe, that's a really strong signal. I think they just know that nobody really cares. Outside of the ultra hard core conservative everyone else is just like meh. At least for now tell more solid backing is out. Cant really sensationalize and make headlines stories if only a niche group cares about it. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On October 18 2020 09:57 NewSunshine wrote: And how does Fox usually run with a story when they really want to drive it home? It'll be all over their site and channel for weeks. Seth Rich and Hillary + Obama's imminent downfall still make the occasional rounds. You know they're not fully backing this story like they usually do. There's probably a reason for that. Eh, I do see one headline on their site and they broke news on it just yesterday. I believe it has been on their shows too though I can't say I watch. I don't really think they're backing down from it. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On October 18 2020 10:25 Doodsmack wrote: Eh, I do see one headline on their site and they broke news on it just yesterday. I believe it has been on their shows too though I can't say I watch. I don't really think they're backing down from it. Fox didn't back down from Birther Conspiracy either. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/17/trump-holds-rally-in-janesville-as-cases-of-coronavirus-soar-in-wisconsin/3682015001/ Despite the worsening situation in Wisconsin, attendees of Trump's rally were neither required to wear masks nor stay distant from each other. They were given temperature checks and provided masks if they didn't have them. Signs at the gate asked people to wear masks. Some followed that suggestion, some didn’t, and some left their masks dangling at their chins, leaving their mouths and noses exposed. “This entire pandemic is a hoax," Brandon Rice of Eau Claire said as he waited in line at the Southern Wisconsin Regional Airport. "I think it was done to make him look bad. It’s fake news." “I refuse to wear a mask," Rice said. When asked why, he said, "Because I'm not a sheep and I’m not scared. It's their way to get control over us.” The Wisconsin rally was Trump's second on Saturday, following one in Muskegon, Mich. There, the crowd chanted “Lock her up!” as Trump talked about Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat who was the target of a kidnapping plot by a right-wing group that wanted to bring her to Wisconsin for a “trial.” I guess the needless deaths of American citizens is an acceptable cost for Republicans so long as they can pack the federal courts, slash welfare and destroy all regulations meant to protect the environment or the poor and working class. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 18 2020 12:28 Starlightsun wrote: I don't understand how anyone can continue to condone this. Trump holding massive rally in Wisconsin, where covid numbers are rising sharply, and of course requires no masks or social distancing. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/17/trump-holds-rally-in-janesville-as-cases-of-coronavirus-soar-in-wisconsin/3682015001/ I guess the needless deaths of American citizens is an acceptable cost for Republicans so long as they can pack the federal courts, slash welfare and destroy all regulations meant to protect the environment or the poor and working class. You can’t understand it? Ok, here’s another event from today: No real media shaming happening. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 18 2020 12:49 Danglars wrote: You can’t understand it? Ok, here’s another event from today: https://twitter.com/shelbytalcott/status/1317515263751999489 No real media shaming happening. It's not the people assembling that I don't understand, it's the leadership that is calling them to do it. The president of the United States is calling people to assemble in a covid hotspot, people who dote on his every word and would wear masks if he only asked them to. Instead he is telling them once again that the pandemic is going away soon and tacitly endorsing not wearing masks. The leader of our country and armed forces showing such reckless disregard for human life is different from a citizen's march. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 18 2020 13:08 Starlightsun wrote: It's not the people assembling that I don't understand, it's the leadership that is calling them to do it. The president of the United States is calling people to assemble in a covid hotspot, people who dote on his every word and would wear masks if he only asked them to. Instead he is telling them once again that the pandemic is going away soon and tacitly endorsing not wearing masks. The leader of our country and armed forces showing such reckless disregard for human life is different from a citizen's march. I don't really care if it's top-down presidential rally or bottom-up women's march. Somewhere, a leftist is covering his eyes to thousands of people standing very close to each other, and then getting mad on the internet about the same thing happening for a less righteous cause. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8745 Posts
On October 18 2020 13:44 Danglars wrote: I don't really care if it's top-down presidential rally or bottom-up women's march. Somewhere, a leftist is covering his eyes to thousands of people standing very close to each other, and then getting mad on the internet about the same thing happening for a less righteous cause. Oh the humanity! | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 18 2020 13:44 Danglars wrote: I don't really care if it's top-down presidential rally or bottom-up women's march. Somewhere, a leftist is covering his eyes to thousands of people standing very close to each other, and then getting mad on the internet about the same thing happening for a less righteous cause. No, you never do care for distinctions until you are the one demanding them. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
On October 18 2020 12:49 Danglars wrote: You can’t understand it? Ok, here’s another event from today: https://twitter.com/shelbytalcott/status/1317515263751999489 No real media shaming happening. 1. Not a Covid hot spot. 2. Outside. 3. I see almost every single person wearing a mask. 4. ??? If you can't tell the difference between these two very different scenarios then wtf. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23957 Posts
On October 18 2020 07:47 Mohdoo wrote: Major right wing outlets, such as fox, drudge and breitbart don't seem to be making a big deal out of the laptop bullshit. If they aren't biting much, it's definitely nothing Just to be clear, what I think is unacceptable about the Biden's behavior regarding this Ukraine bribe isn't even in dispute. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
On October 18 2020 18:15 GreenHorizons wrote: considering the very sentence you type contains something that is being disputed I doubt that.Just to be clear, what I think is unacceptable about the Biden's behavior regarding this Ukraine bribe isn't even in dispute. But that is what happens when you vague references and don't actually type out what you mean. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23957 Posts
On October 18 2020 18:39 Gorsameth wrote: considering the very sentence you type contains something that is being disputed I doubt that. But that is what happens when you vague references and don't actually type out what you mean. I don't take people that claim to believe Hunter had the job for any other reason than to buy access to/influence with his father seriously. That's just a level of gullibility/naivete I can't entertain. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22373 Posts
On October 18 2020 18:47 GreenHorizons wrote: glad we agree that your statement was false I don't take people that claim to believe Hunter had the job for any other reason than to buy access to/influence with his father seriously. That's just a level of gullibility/naivete I can't entertain.  | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23957 Posts
On October 18 2020 18:51 Gorsameth wrote: glad we agree that your statement was false No. The taking the job itself is unacceptable to me and no one disputes he took the job. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4416 Posts
On October 18 2020 06:39 Nouar wrote: A corrupt prosecutor, it's even alleged in the "emails" that that prosecutor was trying to get bribes from Burisma... Biden was not alone in wanting that guy fired, all Europe and the IMF and others were pushing for him to get the boot. What's the issue there ? There's a decent chance these emails are real, I'm totally ok with the FBI investigating, but if this is all that's in those... I mean, the worst alleged for now is that Biden may have briefly met a Burisma executive. Which is not a crime or indication or corruption in itself. How many executives or associates of his children have Trump met, do you think ? That there are far better uses for a billion dollars of US taxpayers money than using it to bribe Ukrainian govt officials? Biden has repeatedly said he did not know about his sons overseas business dealings.Meeting with Burisma officials, getting half of Hunters Burisma salary etc kind of undermines his argument.This was all known before to those following the story but the emails reinforce it.I note there hasn't been a legal challenge against the NYPost to stop them reporting on the emails or an outright denial from the Biden campaign that they are real emails and not a fabrication? Correct me if i am wrong. Besides, the photos/videos may turn out to be the real problem here for the Biden campaign.Bannon/Giuliani are claiming that the real juicy stuff will start leaking 10 days from election date so we will have to wait and see.Could get interesting, for sure. | ||
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