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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On October 18 2020 01:55 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:
The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop.
Yeah, nice of you to leave out that its supposedly an investigation into whether this is a Russian disinformation campaign rather then investigating Hunter Biden for some sort of crime. Makes it all sound a lot different...
To be clear I am only speculating on the FBI point. Could be a Russian disinfo investigation or it could be that they determined the computer shop story to be legit.
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On October 18 2020 01:35 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 00:50 Nevuk wrote:On October 18 2020 00:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 18 2020 00:07 Nevuk wrote:On October 17 2020 23:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do people remember The Guardian was a tabloid when it ran that fictional Manafort meets Assange story that Democrats didn't immediately write off as tabloid trash? I do recall it being pointed out at the time, that the guardian wasn't quite as reputable as, say, the NYT or your average local paper. Especially once other papers started refusing to confirm the story. There was usually a "if true" when other outlets ran their clickbait headlines about it. That was partially because the story had no credibility to begin with but fit a narrative. I was just reading on about the definition of tabloid and their audience and I thought it of note. Aside from the literal definition of tabloid I think cable/broadcast news is largely of the same ilk. It's sensationalist yellow journalism. Russiagate is a fair example of Democrats falling for the same sensationalism washed through a format that makes them feel like intelligent discerning people. Russiagate got sensationalized, sure, but it is a thing that definitely happened. Russia really did hack the DNC and release Podesta's emails in order to influence the election. Trump Jr definitely tried to arrange for collusion, but failed at it due to his own incompetence. It wasn't just democrats who thought that, btw. Remember when Kevin Mccarthy, house GOP leader, was caught on hot mic saying he thought two people were on Putin's payroll - Trump and Dana Rohrbacher? With all the facts we have now, it's far stranger that Trump really was ignorant of it all, given his open deference to Putin. It's probably explained by some of his mysterious financing instead of any quid pro quo in the campaign, or by his preference for strongman dictators.
Note how C-Span fired (I guess he was "suspended indefinitely", so we'll see if it sticks) the guy for lying about being hacked whereas MSNBC gave Joy Reid a promotion after her time traveling Russian hackers nonsense.
We're definitely in agreement here. C-Span is quite possibly the only 24/7 network worth watching, and that's partially because it's boring as hell. I'd call all the others entertainment masquerading as news. MSNBC is awful, with a huge pro-corporate bias. I do like a couple of their personalities, but their historical record as a channel is pretty bad. CNN was possibly Trump's largest campaign contributor in 2015 and 2016. Fox is well, entertainment, not news, by their own admission (a couple hours a day they pretend to be news, but even then they'll report on the things said by their opinion shows as items of import). I just want to point out that Podesta got fooled by an email and gave Russians his password. He and his team were imbeciles, and I don’t want Russia to get too much credit for the hack.
There were three hacks we know of. You're referring to one of three. The other two were direct hacks of DNC and RNC servers(the RNC ones were never released, but we know it happened), for which 12 russian agents were named in an indictment.
The podesta emails were the third one, and is considered the most cost effective way to engage in hacking, social engineering. It is much easier to trick people than to trick computers. We have no info about how many attempts were made, and it only takes one success. Podesta reached out to a tech person before clicking on the phising email, which is far more than I expect the average person to do. Stupid of him to click it regardless, but it was a pretty sophisticated phishing attempt.
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On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:
The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop.
An anonymous source of course. Glad to see the WH Press Secretary going on a campaign. Is she bankrolled by the Trump campaign or by taxpayers ? At least it's from her private account.
Glad to see she is taking anonymous sources for verified information.
IF this is true, it should of course get prosecuted (about as much as foreign money influx into Trump's residences). However, is there any history of Joe being referenced at as "the big guy" ? It could be anyone lol.
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On October 18 2020 00:34 Danglars wrote:
The echo chamber in this case is everybody telling themselves that the average joe that disagrees with you are not trained in critical thought and dwelling in their own echo chambers. I don't think forming this echo chamber is justified or even elevated above the echo chambers it purports to combat.
No? I dont care if the average joe agrees with me or not. Fact is that they're not trained in critical thought and get easily sucked into consumerism and propaganda.
I have lost the count of people telling me random shit they don't agree with or don't like that's just surface level analysis at best, when the actual situation is always more complex. Populism relies on the fact that the average joe needs/wants these simplifications, but all that happens is a gross misrepresentation of reality, causing a deeply flawed system.
In a sense, the average joe is the greatest asset - because you need them to win elections - and the deepest pitfall for society.
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On October 18 2020 01:16 WombaT wrote:
Dear diary, Saturday the 17th October 2020. My takeaways in my pursuit of knowledge from today’s browsing of the US Politics Megathread.
The New York Post is not a tabloid. The Guardian is a tabloid.
Add to mental notes.
This was kind of my takeaway. Clearly we're all on the same page and communicating fairly and equally.
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On October 18 2020 02:14 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop. https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1317268688706375682 An anonymous source of course. Glad to see the WH Press Secretary going on a campaign. Is she bankrolled by the Trump campaign or by taxpayers ? At least it's from her private account. Glad to see she is taking anonymous sources for verified information. IF this is true, it should of course get prosecuted (about as much as foreign money influx into Trump's residences). However, is there any history of Joe being referenced at as "the big guy" ? It could be anyone lol.
Other documents/texts allegedly show Hunter saying that "Pop" demanded a cut of his salary. And yes I'm sure it's a crime for the Press Sec to say those words and she should be thrown in jail.
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Northern Ireland26799 Posts
On October 18 2020 03:09 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 02:14 Nouar wrote:On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop. https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1317268688706375682 An anonymous source of course. Glad to see the WH Press Secretary going on a campaign. Is she bankrolled by the Trump campaign or by taxpayers ? At least it's from her private account. Glad to see she is taking anonymous sources for verified information. IF this is true, it should of course get prosecuted (about as much as foreign money influx into Trump's residences). However, is there any history of Joe being referenced at as "the big guy" ? It could be anyone lol. Other documents/texts allegedly show Hunter saying that "Pop" demanded a cut of his salary. And yes I'm sure it's a crime for the Press Sec to say those words and she should be thrown in jail.
By documents is it that one singular text that I’ve seen going the rounds? Seems a stretch, At least without other corroborating stuff anyway.
It comes across as a father whining to his daughter about how much he’s done for her and the family etc, with the usual hyperbole that comes with such things.
As to the last sentence literally meaning he’s been giving half his salary to pop, yeah sure it’s possible.
She should be thrown in jail for her awful use of superfluous capitalisation, wonder where she picked that off. Alas we don’t live in a world where I’m Supreme Benevolent Overlord so she shall remain free.
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On October 18 2020 03:09 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 02:14 Nouar wrote:On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop. https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1317268688706375682 An anonymous source of course. Glad to see the WH Press Secretary going on a campaign. Is she bankrolled by the Trump campaign or by taxpayers ? At least it's from her private account. Glad to see she is taking anonymous sources for verified information. IF this is true, it should of course get prosecuted (about as much as foreign money influx into Trump's residences). However, is there any history of Joe being referenced at as "the big guy" ? It could be anyone lol. Other documents/texts allegedly show Hunter saying that "Pop" demanded a cut of his salary. And yes I'm sure it's a crime for the Press Sec to say those words and she should be thrown in jail.
Yeah, of which this is your source :
Excuse me but that screenshot is worth nothing as is. Give me a Naomi Biden interview saying she was the recipient of this and I will believe it.
Same for the Joe Biden meeting. Some other mails were sourced and captures taken correctly with metadata and everything. The "juicy bit" was a poor screenshot of it with no information inside.
And now that "big guy".
For now it's still just a huge bunch of baseless nothing with questionable screenshots that I could have forged myself in 10min of Gimp.
As for McEnany (and basically the whole Trump administration), there was something called the Hatch Act, but since you can't expect his own DOJ to enforce things against the administration, to hell with the laws. I believe there should be fines I guess, but no one saw fit to enforce the hatch act like... ever.
We have the same kind of law in France, and that's why you see me arguing about politics anonymously and not with any named account since I more or less work for the government. We take the laws seriously, and we ARE prosecuting past presidents for active corruption and criminal conspiracy.
https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/financement-libyen-nicolas-sarkozy-mis-en-examen-pour-association-de-malfaiteurs-20201016
I could, by myself, in a few days, provide you with a laptop full of forged emails with altered metadata, constructing dates, meetings, incriminatory behaviour, mixed with real information (if I successfully hacked something) with dates intertwined with real events. Then I could drop that laptop somewhere and wait to collect.
Give me at least a raw copy of the data on the hard disk, with chrome accounts linked to the real Hunter Biden accounts, or something that can make it true. Giuliani has the data it seems. Well, isn't Wikileaks still around ? Go ahead, publish it all and let pros see if the material looks legit.
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Northern Ireland26799 Posts
On October 18 2020 02:19 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 00:34 Danglars wrote:
The echo chamber in this case is everybody telling themselves that the average joe that disagrees with you are not trained in critical thought and dwelling in their own echo chambers. I don't think forming this echo chamber is justified or even elevated above the echo chambers it purports to combat. No? I dont care if the average joe agrees with me or not. Fact is that they're not trained in critical thought and get easily sucked into consumerism and propaganda. I have lost the count of people telling me random shit they don't agree with or don't like that's just surface level analysis at best, when the actual situation is always more complex. Populism relies on the fact that the average joe needs/wants these simplifications, but all that happens is a gross misrepresentation of reality, causing a deeply flawed system. In a sense, the average joe is the greatest asset - because you need them to win elections - and the deepest pitfall for society.
I think you overestimate how much of critical thought can be trained and to how many people. A lot of people really aren’t that bright for a start.
That aside, the problem very much is that it’s complex, and indeed increasingly more complex in the internet age. Far too complex for individuals to wade through themselves no matter how good their critical thought faculties are.
Reliable interlocutors are more important than ever because there’s so much more information floating around from individuals with wildly differing agendas that to try and assess the outside world accurately through all the white noise becomes borderline impossible.
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Northern Ireland26799 Posts
On October 18 2020 03:31 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 03:09 Doodsmack wrote:On October 18 2020 02:14 Nouar wrote:On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop. https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1317268688706375682 An anonymous source of course. Glad to see the WH Press Secretary going on a campaign. Is she bankrolled by the Trump campaign or by taxpayers ? At least it's from her private account. Glad to see she is taking anonymous sources for verified information. IF this is true, it should of course get prosecuted (about as much as foreign money influx into Trump's residences). However, is there any history of Joe being referenced at as "the big guy" ? It could be anyone lol. Other documents/texts allegedly show Hunter saying that "Pop" demanded a cut of his salary. And yes I'm sure it's a crime for the Press Sec to say those words and she should be thrown in jail. Yeah, of which this is your source : https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1316804040857137160Excuse me but that screenshot is worth nothing as is. Give me a Naomi Biden interview saying she was the recipient of this and I will believe it. Same for the Joe Biden meeting. Some other mails were sourced and captures taken correctly with metadata and everything. The "juicy bit" was a poor screenshot of it with no information inside. And now that "big guy". For now it's still just a huge bunch of baseless nothing with questionable screenshots that I could have forged myself in 10min of Gimp. As for McEnany (and basically the whole Trump administration), there was something called the Hatch Act, but since you can't expect his own DOJ to enforce things against the administration, to hell with the laws. I believe there should be fines I guess, but no one saw fit to enforce the hatch act like... ever. We have the same kind of law in France, and that's why you see me arguing about politics anonymously and not with any named account since I more or less work for the government. We take the laws seriously, and we ARE prosecuting past presidents for active corruption and criminal conspiracy. https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/financement-libyen-nicolas-sarkozy-mis-en-examen-pour-association-de-malfaiteurs-20201016
I’m not sure if I’m glad or not that I accidentally sent that text to Rudy Giuliani rather than my ex.
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No one cares about the Hunter Biden stuff. No one is changing their vote on that when we know the President and his family actively profit off of him being in office.
Its a waste of space/breath to even discuss.
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On October 18 2020 03:52 Sadist wrote:
No one cares about the Hunter Biden stuff. No one is changing their vote on that when we know the President and his family actively profit off of him being in office.
Its a waste of space/breath to even discuss.
It is the only thing they have. It was expected, and they probably have more coming.
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On October 18 2020 03:52 Sadist wrote:
No one cares about the Hunter Biden stuff. No one is changing their vote on that when we know the President and his family actively profit off of him being in office.
Its a waste of space/breath to even discuss.
Don't agree, this is not *only* about the election and changing votes. If there is proof that the Bidens are corrupt, it's worth talking about. However, the "proofs" for now are laughable.
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On October 18 2020 03:55 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 03:52 Sadist wrote:
No one cares about the Hunter Biden stuff. No one is changing their vote on that when we know the President and his family actively profit off of him being in office.
Its a waste of space/breath to even discuss. It is the only thing they have. It was expected, and they probably have more coming.
I'd put money on decent odds that they're going to accuse biden of being a pedophile through some Q "leak". Really wouldn't be hard to make deepfakes if they've had months or years to make something like that.
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It's actually very easy to fake an email from someone. I reckon it wouldn't take someone skilled more than 30sec. Just gotta know the email adress you want to clone.
Welcome to the futur, don't trust anything digital at first glance. Especially if it comes from Rudy XD
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On October 18 2020 02:14 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop. https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1317268688706375682 An anonymous source of course. Glad to see the WH Press Secretary going on a campaign. Is she bankrolled by the Trump campaign or by taxpayers ? At least it's from her private account. Glad to see she is taking anonymous sources for verified information. IF this is true, it should of course get prosecuted (about as much as foreign money influx into Trump's residences). However, is there any history of Joe being referenced at as "the big guy" ? It could be anyone lol.
It is comforting to see you've learned the lesson about anonymous sources. If more could've done this in the disastrous leak campaign against Trump for the last 4-5 years, the country would be in much better shape.
On October 18 2020 02:19 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 00:34 Danglars wrote:
The echo chamber in this case is everybody telling themselves that the average joe that disagrees with you are not trained in critical thought and dwelling in their own echo chambers. I don't think forming this echo chamber is justified or even elevated above the echo chambers it purports to combat. No? I dont care if the average joe agrees with me or not. Fact is that they're not trained in critical thought and get easily sucked into consumerism and propaganda. I have lost the count of people telling me random shit they don't agree with or don't like that's just surface level analysis at best, when the actual situation is always more complex. Populism relies on the fact that the average joe needs/wants these simplifications, but all that happens is a gross misrepresentation of reality, causing a deeply flawed system. In a sense, the average joe is the greatest asset - because you need them to win elections - and the deepest pitfall for society.
I'd trust the average joe than a random selection of the people on this forum or running this website. The people concerned with the apparent lack of critical thought in the public at large have proven incapable of applying it when a big orange idiot is composing mean tweets on twitter. I think that's absolutely a problem with reducing a complex situation to a falsely simple one: you don't have to worry about Trump's election, because it wasn't legitimate--you don't have to worry about the people that voted Trump, because they were either deceived, or are racist ingrates--you don't have to worry about the norms people are destroying to stop Trump, because he's always worse in that respect, and the country's peril is so imminent to justify all destructive actions. I've lost count at how many people think themselves to possess critical analytical abilities, and play into propagandistic viewpoints of how the other side thinks and acts. That's why I said I think you're in an echo chamber that justifies the conclusion that your tribe possesses a higher degree of analytic faculties, and it isn't morally above the various echo chambers you decry.
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As hunter's fraudster business partners turn on him I'm betting the documents get adequately verified, if some of them haven't already. Granted it's no shock that Biden would be another corrupt politician, so that may not change much. Transparency is good though, regardless of whether you dont like the source:
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On October 18 2020 04:00 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 02:14 Nouar wrote:On October 18 2020 01:47 Doodsmack wrote:The real danger for biden here is if he engaged in profit sharing with hunter while he was VP. Hunter's people are apparently starting to turn on him, so more could come out. For all we know the FBI has an active investigation on this, considering the FBI seized the contents of the computer shop laptop. https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1317268688706375682 An anonymous source of course. Glad to see the WH Press Secretary going on a campaign. Is she bankrolled by the Trump campaign or by taxpayers ? At least it's from her private account. Glad to see she is taking anonymous sources for verified information. IF this is true, it should of course get prosecuted (about as much as foreign money influx into Trump's residences). However, is there any history of Joe being referenced at as "the big guy" ? It could be anyone lol. It is comforting to see you've learned the lesson about anonymous sources. If more could've done this in the disastrous leak campaign against Trump for the last 4-5 years, the country would be in much better shape. Show nested quote +On October 18 2020 02:19 Uldridge wrote:On October 18 2020 00:34 Danglars wrote:
The echo chamber in this case is everybody telling themselves that the average joe that disagrees with you are not trained in critical thought and dwelling in their own echo chambers. I don't think forming this echo chamber is justified or even elevated above the echo chambers it purports to combat. No? I dont care if the average joe agrees with me or not. Fact is that they're not trained in critical thought and get easily sucked into consumerism and propaganda. I have lost the count of people telling me random shit they don't agree with or don't like that's just surface level analysis at best, when the actual situation is always more complex. Populism relies on the fact that the average joe needs/wants these simplifications, but all that happens is a gross misrepresentation of reality, causing a deeply flawed system. In a sense, the average joe is the greatest asset - because you need them to win elections - and the deepest pitfall for society. I'd trust the average joe than a random selection of the people on this forum or running this website. The people concerned with the apparent lack of critical thought in the public at large have proven incapable of applying it when a big orange idiot is composing mean tweets on twitter. I think that's absolutely a problem with reducing a complex situation to a falsely simple one: you don't have to worry about Trump's election, because it wasn't legitimate--you don't have to worry about the people that voted Trump, because they were either deceived, or are racist ingrates--you don't have to worry about the norms people are destroying to stop Trump, because he's always worse in that respect, and the country's peril is so imminent to justify all destructive actions. I've lost count at how many people think themselves to possess critical analytical abilities, and play into propagandistic viewpoints of how the other side thinks and acts. That's why I said I think you're in an echo chamber that justifies the conclusion that your tribe possesses a higher degree of analytic faculties, and it isn't morally above the various echo chambers you decry.
Don't worry, i don't expect a single rationnal thought from you either. I don't believe you're uninformed either, just willfully ignorant. 
Btw generalizing people who don't agree with you as "leftists" is pretty funny. I'm quite certain you can see in the European thread those same people disagreeing on multiples subjects. But when all those people are telling you that you are supporting a racist fearmongering populist, you file that under an "echo chamber".
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On October 18 2020 04:00 Danglars wrote:
I'd trust the average joe than a random selection of the people on this forum or running this website. The people concerned with the apparent lack of critical thought in the public at large have proven incapable of applying it when a big orange idiot is composing mean tweets on twitter. I think that's absolutely a problem with reducing a complex situation to a falsely simple one: you don't have to worry about Trump's election, because it wasn't legitimate--you don't have to worry about the people that voted Trump, because they were either deceived, or are racist ingrates--you don't have to worry about the norms people are destroying to stop Trump, because he's always worse in that respect, and the country's peril is so imminent to justify all destructive actions. I've lost count at how many people think themselves to possess critical analytical abilities, and play into propagandistic viewpoints of how the other side thinks and acts. That's why I said I think you're in an echo chamber that justifies the conclusion that your tribe possesses a higher degree of analytic faculties, and it isn't morally above the various echo chambers you decry.
I agree 100% with this post. This is one of the biggest problems with liberals and leftists, self deception that everyone thinks the way we do and the inability to understand how people end up on the right. Its why you get ridiculously misjudged comments like Clinton's deplorables attacking sections of the population.
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EPT
