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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On August 24 2020 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 06:35 Erasme wrote:On August 24 2020 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is nothing double edged really. That in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event doesn't change the nature of the diarrhea. Plus you don't need to have a completely paranoid worldview to assume that, yeah, some rich and powerful people are probably sex maniacs, and using their money and influence to indulge their twisted fantasies. That description makes it sound like a weird fetish instead of the massive criminal child trafficking conspiracy implicating popular and powerful figures that have faced virtually 0 accountability and where the central figure died under questionable circumstances while in official custody. "Q" largely seems like a way to avoid dealing with that by lumping it in with crazed conspiracies. You are incredibly stupid if you believe something that comes out of 4chan. There's nothing more to say about Q that wasn't already described by the term "diarrhea". The "it" there is referring to the very real child sex trafficking ring run by Epstein being lumped in with 4chan conspiracies. Just as an example, if you read a tweet that said: Show nested quote +Clinton and a lot of other politicians, celebrities, and wealthy people are implicated in a child sex trafficking ring The ambiguity between whether they are referencing Epstein or 4chan diarrhea is a win for anyone implicated in the former.
Good to see you're again following Danglars' playbook of responding to one liners and ignoring the detailed responses that make good points. It makes for a very productive discussion.
EDIT dammit page. let's all read Nevuk's post instead.
On August 24 2020 06:25 Nevuk wrote:Q is a lot crazier than you guys seem to think it is. It's considerably less sane than pizza gate, which started off of the premise GH is referring to and failed to account for basic facts (cheese pizza means cheese pizza to everyone but pedophiles on 4chan, and that pizza place in question didn't even have a basement, which was where all acts were alleged to have taken place). Q is a series of batshit insane predictions/conspiracies that are posted anonymously (anyone can claim to be Q (sort of, there's a code they use to identify themselves but it HAS changed a few times)), are always proven wrong, and that once proven wrong, have insane levels of post-hoc justification applied to prove that whatever happened was what they 'really' meant. It's not just "child molestation", it's "pedophile's having satanic orgies where they sacrifice children to baphomet so hillary can resume her rule the earth (which has only existed for 6000 years and is flat, and on a space elevator constantly going up, which is where gravity comes from), and Trump is going to throw all of the deepstate in prison on the first of <insert next month> <insert year>". Now they're not all flat-earthers, but there's a large overlap between Qanons, flat-earthers, and religious zealots/creationists. So you know, lunatics, in conventonial parlance. These are the people standing on a street corner shouting the world is ending, but now they have twitter and can talk to each other. Here's the actual definition from wiki, in case you think I'm making it up: Show nested quote + there is a worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world, essentially, and they control everything. They control politicians, and they control the media. They control Hollywood, and they cover up their existence, essentially. And they would have continued ruling the world, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump in this conspiracy theory knows all about this evil cabal's wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them, basically. And now we would be ignorant of this behind-the-scenes battle of Donald Trump and the U.S. military—that everyone backs him and the evil cabal—were it not for "Q." And what "Q" is is basically a poster on 4chan, who later moved to 8chan, who reveals details about this secret behind-the-scenes battle, and also secrets about what the cabal is doing and also the mass sort of upcoming arrest events through these posts.[29]
Followers of QAnon also believe that there is an imminent event known as "The Storm", in which thousands of people, members of the cabal, will be arrested, possibly sent to Guantanamo Bay prison or to face military tribunals, and the U.S. military will brutally take over the country.[29] The result of The Storm will be salvation and utopia on earth.[38] If you want a longer story, https://www.salon.com/2019/08/18/qanon-is-the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-die-heres-what-they-believe-and-why-theyre-wrong/ was the source of the quote.
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On August 24 2020 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 06:35 Erasme wrote:On August 24 2020 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is nothing double edged really. That in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event doesn't change the nature of the diarrhea. Plus you don't need to have a completely paranoid worldview to assume that, yeah, some rich and powerful people are probably sex maniacs, and using their money and influence to indulge their twisted fantasies. That description makes it sound like a weird fetish instead of the massive criminal child trafficking conspiracy implicating popular and powerful figures that have faced virtually 0 accountability and where the central figure died under questionable circumstances while in official custody. "Q" largely seems like a way to avoid dealing with that by lumping it in with crazed conspiracies. You are incredibly stupid if you believe something that comes out of 4chan. There's nothing more to say about Q that wasn't already described by the term "diarrhea". The "it" there is referring to the very real child sex trafficking ring run by Epstein being lumped in with 4chan conspiracies. Just as an example, if you read a tweet that said: Show nested quote +Clinton and a lot of other politicians, celebrities, and wealthy people are implicated in a child sex trafficking ring The ambiguity between whether they are referencing Epstein or 4chan diarrhea is a win for anyone implicated in the former.
On August 24 2020 07:13 Belisarius wrote:Good to see you're again following Danglars' playbook of responding to one liners and completely ignoring the informative and detailed responses that make good points. It makes for a very productive discussion. EDIT dammit page. let's all read Nevuk's post instead. Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 06:25 Nevuk wrote:Q is a lot crazier than you guys seem to think it is. It's considerably less sane than pizza gate, which started off of the premise GH is referring to and failed to account for basic facts (cheese pizza means cheese pizza to everyone but pedophiles on 4chan, and that pizza place in question didn't even have a basement, which was where all acts were alleged to have taken place). Q is a series of batshit insane predictions/conspiracies that are posted anonymously (anyone can claim to be Q (sort of, there's a code they use to identify themselves but it HAS changed a few times)), are always proven wrong, and that once proven wrong, have insane levels of post-hoc justification applied to prove that whatever happened was what they 'really' meant. It's not just "child molestation", it's "pedophile's having satanic orgies where they sacrifice children to baphomet so hillary can resume her rule the earth (which has only existed for 6000 years and is flat, and on a space elevator constantly going up, which is where gravity comes from), and Trump is going to throw all of the deepstate in prison on the first of <insert next month> <insert year>". Now they're not all flat-earthers, but there's a large overlap between Qanons, flat-earthers, and religious zealots/creationists. So you know, lunatics, in conventonial parlance. These are the people standing on a street corner shouting the world is ending, but now they have twitter and can talk to each other. Here's the actual definition from wiki, in case you think I'm making it up: there is a worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world, essentially, and they control everything. They control politicians, and they control the media. They control Hollywood, and they cover up their existence, essentially. And they would have continued ruling the world, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump in this conspiracy theory knows all about this evil cabal's wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them, basically. And now we would be ignorant of this behind-the-scenes battle of Donald Trump and the U.S. military—that everyone backs him and the evil cabal—were it not for "Q." And what "Q" is is basically a poster on 4chan, who later moved to 8chan, who reveals details about this secret behind-the-scenes battle, and also secrets about what the cabal is doing and also the mass sort of upcoming arrest events through these posts.[29]
Followers of QAnon also believe that there is an imminent event known as "The Storm", in which thousands of people, members of the cabal, will be arrested, possibly sent to Guantanamo Bay prison or to face military tribunals, and the U.S. military will brutally take over the country.[29] The result of The Storm will be salvation and utopia on earth.[38] If you want a longer story, https://www.salon.com/2019/08/18/qanon-is-the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-die-heres-what-they-believe-and-why-theyre-wrong/ was the source of the quote.
What from that post am I supposed to respond to? I presume that's an accurate enough description of QAnon from what I've heard.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On August 24 2020 01:48 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2020 06:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 23 2020 06:27 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 06:12 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 03:39 Doublemint wrote:Absolutely correct, the ugliness was always there. Weaponizing it this expertly by abusing the freedoms granted though is unprecedented. And with social media the reach is near unlimited.
The actual beauty of it is how they made it seem so organic. IIRC I also posted about it in the past with a fascinating WaPo article. //edit: Russian trolls can be surprisingly subtle, and often fun to read Oh god, we're back to how masterful the Bernie coloring book,Trump vs Satan ads, and pointing out 1+1 = 2 were... Do people think Russia is exponentially better at influencing elections/kindling divisions and stuff than the NSA/CIA/etc or what? I do not, probably very similar. Do you not think the US has influenced other countries elections? That would be pathetic given their relative size, budgets, and available tech. Of course they have. They've openly admitted to it several times. Up to and including helping to forcibly remove democratically elected leaders (you can think of Chile specifically) So what point are you making? If anything you are saying how careful the US needs to be. If anyone knows what is possible it is them. Social media, and the internet in general really evened the playing field. Why is the US so vulnerable to Russian interference and yet seemingly impervious to relative European norms in terms of influence and not exactly a huge fan of China all round? Careful of what? The world’s superpower in waiting apparently can’t wield this influence, a relatively joined up European bloc can’t but Russia can? Didn't several of the major intelligence leaks - the ones that sparked the larger scale investi-gate movement that got a lot of Trump's grifter friends in trouble - originate from "allied" nations in Europe? Whether or not you think that such an approach is justified, it certainly did have a significant influence on the course of the last few years while being of decidedly European origin. So Europe certainly did have an influence, albeit in an uglier than desired way?
That it did. I suppose the charges against Russia (and others too) are somewhat two-tiered. On one hand there’s leaks of ‘official’ information, obtained via whatever means that pertains to individuals with power in various fields. On the other there’s the charge that there’s a wider focused poisoning of the well on platforms the populace use, be it disseminating ‘fake news’ or fostering skepticism for information that has veracity.
To be clear I don’t doubt efforts have been made in this domain, my main irritation is why the focus on Russia, (or indeed China)? They’re exploiting clear vulnerabilities in technical and cultural systems, there comes a point the systems themselves are where the microscope should be turned.
Most of the big players in terms of disseminating information, not just to American citizens but most of the non-Chinese world are all American companies after all. The potential issues in how that power is wielded has been long-discussed, albeit in a way that hasn’t entered the public consciousness by and large.
Ye olde Russian chicanery could have been the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of general apathy in properly delving into these issues but that hasn’t really happened just yet.
Just as the 2008 financial crisis could have been the big reveal of all the bullshit going on there and to treat the root problem, instead largely only the symptoms were addressed and the impetus for more meaningful reforms were squandered.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On August 24 2020 07:30 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 06:35 Erasme wrote:On August 24 2020 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is nothing double edged really. That in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event doesn't change the nature of the diarrhea. Plus you don't need to have a completely paranoid worldview to assume that, yeah, some rich and powerful people are probably sex maniacs, and using their money and influence to indulge their twisted fantasies. That description makes it sound like a weird fetish instead of the massive criminal child trafficking conspiracy implicating popular and powerful figures that have faced virtually 0 accountability and where the central figure died under questionable circumstances while in official custody. "Q" largely seems like a way to avoid dealing with that by lumping it in with crazed conspiracies. You are incredibly stupid if you believe something that comes out of 4chan. There's nothing more to say about Q that wasn't already described by the term "diarrhea". The "it" there is referring to the very real child sex trafficking ring run by Epstein being lumped in with 4chan conspiracies. Just as an example, if you read a tweet that said: Clinton and a lot of other politicians, celebrities, and wealthy people are implicated in a child sex trafficking ring The ambiguity between whether they are referencing Epstein or 4chan diarrhea is a win for anyone implicated in the former. Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 07:13 Belisarius wrote:Good to see you're again following Danglars' playbook of responding to one liners and completely ignoring the informative and detailed responses that make good points. It makes for a very productive discussion. EDIT dammit page. let's all read Nevuk's post instead. On August 24 2020 06:25 Nevuk wrote:Q is a lot crazier than you guys seem to think it is. It's considerably less sane than pizza gate, which started off of the premise GH is referring to and failed to account for basic facts (cheese pizza means cheese pizza to everyone but pedophiles on 4chan, and that pizza place in question didn't even have a basement, which was where all acts were alleged to have taken place). Q is a series of batshit insane predictions/conspiracies that are posted anonymously (anyone can claim to be Q (sort of, there's a code they use to identify themselves but it HAS changed a few times)), are always proven wrong, and that once proven wrong, have insane levels of post-hoc justification applied to prove that whatever happened was what they 'really' meant. It's not just "child molestation", it's "pedophile's having satanic orgies where they sacrifice children to baphomet so hillary can resume her rule the earth (which has only existed for 6000 years and is flat, and on a space elevator constantly going up, which is where gravity comes from), and Trump is going to throw all of the deepstate in prison on the first of <insert next month> <insert year>". Now they're not all flat-earthers, but there's a large overlap between Qanons, flat-earthers, and religious zealots/creationists. So you know, lunatics, in conventonial parlance. These are the people standing on a street corner shouting the world is ending, but now they have twitter and can talk to each other. Here's the actual definition from wiki, in case you think I'm making it up: there is a worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world, essentially, and they control everything. They control politicians, and they control the media. They control Hollywood, and they cover up their existence, essentially. And they would have continued ruling the world, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump in this conspiracy theory knows all about this evil cabal's wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them, basically. And now we would be ignorant of this behind-the-scenes battle of Donald Trump and the U.S. military—that everyone backs him and the evil cabal—were it not for "Q." And what "Q" is is basically a poster on 4chan, who later moved to 8chan, who reveals details about this secret behind-the-scenes battle, and also secrets about what the cabal is doing and also the mass sort of upcoming arrest events through these posts.[29]
Followers of QAnon also believe that there is an imminent event known as "The Storm", in which thousands of people, members of the cabal, will be arrested, possibly sent to Guantanamo Bay prison or to face military tribunals, and the U.S. military will brutally take over the country.[29] The result of The Storm will be salvation and utopia on earth.[38] If you want a longer story, https://www.salon.com/2019/08/18/qanon-is-the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-die-heres-what-they-believe-and-why-theyre-wrong/ was the source of the quote. What from that post am I supposed to respond to? I presume that's an accurate enough description of QAnon from what I've heard.
The problem with QAnon, aside from their adherents seemingly being crazy people is their seeming inability to conceive of this as being a symptom of a systemic problem.
So instead of ‘oh yeah the rich and powerful can get away with all sorts of stuff the rest of us can by account of being rich and powerful, I suppose that would extend to trafficking’, it’s a whole framing of shadowy cabals and sacrifices and the kind of cartoonish evil you’d see in a kid’s cartoon or something.
We’re hitting peak levels of cognitive dissonance where Trump who indisputably did brush shoulders with Epstein but somehow is not only not implicated (anyone else who so much as had a conversation with Epstein is of course) but is actively fighting these cabals, somehow.
Simone Biles herself pales in comparison to the kind of gymnastics QAnon have to pull out to make their narrative come together.
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I'm upset that these stupid, incompotent satanist pedophiles that control everything fucked up bad enough to make the religion most opposed to their satanism also most popular in the country they run the world from. /s
At least they also screwed up and made pedophilia repulsive and unacceptable, instead of accepted and normal.
(I don't know how trolls ever got this much voice. 'Tis distressing)
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On August 24 2020 07:50 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 01:48 LegalLord wrote:On August 23 2020 06:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 23 2020 06:27 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 06:12 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 03:39 Doublemint wrote:Absolutely correct, the ugliness was always there. Weaponizing it this expertly by abusing the freedoms granted though is unprecedented. And with social media the reach is near unlimited.
The actual beauty of it is how they made it seem so organic. IIRC I also posted about it in the past with a fascinating WaPo article. //edit: Russian trolls can be surprisingly subtle, and often fun to read Oh god, we're back to how masterful the Bernie coloring book,Trump vs Satan ads, and pointing out 1+1 = 2 were... Do people think Russia is exponentially better at influencing elections/kindling divisions and stuff than the NSA/CIA/etc or what? I do not, probably very similar. Do you not think the US has influenced other countries elections? That would be pathetic given their relative size, budgets, and available tech. Of course they have. They've openly admitted to it several times. Up to and including helping to forcibly remove democratically elected leaders (you can think of Chile specifically) So what point are you making? If anything you are saying how careful the US needs to be. If anyone knows what is possible it is them. Social media, and the internet in general really evened the playing field. Why is the US so vulnerable to Russian interference and yet seemingly impervious to relative European norms in terms of influence and not exactly a huge fan of China all round? Careful of what? The world’s superpower in waiting apparently can’t wield this influence, a relatively joined up European bloc can’t but Russia can? Didn't several of the major intelligence leaks - the ones that sparked the larger scale investi-gate movement that got a lot of Trump's grifter friends in trouble - originate from "allied" nations in Europe? Whether or not you think that such an approach is justified, it certainly did have a significant influence on the course of the last few years while being of decidedly European origin. So Europe certainly did have an influence, albeit in an uglier than desired way? + Show Spoiler +That it did. I suppose the charges against Russia (and others too) are somewhat two-tiered. On one hand there’s leaks of ‘official’ information, obtained via whatever means that pertains to individuals with power in various fields. On the other there’s the charge that there’s a wider focused poisoning of the well on platforms the populace use, be it disseminating ‘fake news’ or fostering skepticism for information that has veracity.
To be clear I don’t doubt efforts have been made in this domain, my main irritation is why the focus on Russia, (or indeed China)? They’re exploiting clear vulnerabilities in technical and cultural systems, there comes a point the systems themselves are where the microscope should be turned. Most of the big players in terms of disseminating information, not just to American citizens but most of the non-Chinese world are all American companies after all. The potential issues in how that power is wielded has been long-discussed, albeit in a way that hasn’t entered the public consciousness by and large. Ye olde Russian chicanery could have been the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of general apathy in properly delving into these issues but that hasn’t really happened just yet. Just as the 2008 financial crisis could have been the big reveal of all the bullshit going on there and to treat the root problem, instead largely only the symptoms were addressed and the impetus for more meaningful reforms were squandered.
Just wanted to mention this is a great post and it's good to know that some people are seeing this.
On August 24 2020 07:59 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 07:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 06:35 Erasme wrote:On August 24 2020 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is nothing double edged really. That in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event doesn't change the nature of the diarrhea. Plus you don't need to have a completely paranoid worldview to assume that, yeah, some rich and powerful people are probably sex maniacs, and using their money and influence to indulge their twisted fantasies. That description makes it sound like a weird fetish instead of the massive criminal child trafficking conspiracy implicating popular and powerful figures that have faced virtually 0 accountability and where the central figure died under questionable circumstances while in official custody. "Q" largely seems like a way to avoid dealing with that by lumping it in with crazed conspiracies. You are incredibly stupid if you believe something that comes out of 4chan. There's nothing more to say about Q that wasn't already described by the term "diarrhea". The "it" there is referring to the very real child sex trafficking ring run by Epstein being lumped in with 4chan conspiracies. Just as an example, if you read a tweet that said: Clinton and a lot of other politicians, celebrities, and wealthy people are implicated in a child sex trafficking ring The ambiguity between whether they are referencing Epstein or 4chan diarrhea is a win for anyone implicated in the former. On August 24 2020 07:13 Belisarius wrote:Good to see you're again following Danglars' playbook of responding to one liners and completely ignoring the informative and detailed responses that make good points. It makes for a very productive discussion. EDIT dammit page. let's all read Nevuk's post instead. On August 24 2020 06:25 Nevuk wrote:Q is a lot crazier than you guys seem to think it is. It's considerably less sane than pizza gate, which started off of the premise GH is referring to and failed to account for basic facts (cheese pizza means cheese pizza to everyone but pedophiles on 4chan, and that pizza place in question didn't even have a basement, which was where all acts were alleged to have taken place). Q is a series of batshit insane predictions/conspiracies that are posted anonymously (anyone can claim to be Q (sort of, there's a code they use to identify themselves but it HAS changed a few times)), are always proven wrong, and that once proven wrong, have insane levels of post-hoc justification applied to prove that whatever happened was what they 'really' meant. It's not just "child molestation", it's "pedophile's having satanic orgies where they sacrifice children to baphomet so hillary can resume her rule the earth (which has only existed for 6000 years and is flat, and on a space elevator constantly going up, which is where gravity comes from), and Trump is going to throw all of the deepstate in prison on the first of <insert next month> <insert year>". Now they're not all flat-earthers, but there's a large overlap between Qanons, flat-earthers, and religious zealots/creationists. So you know, lunatics, in conventonial parlance. These are the people standing on a street corner shouting the world is ending, but now they have twitter and can talk to each other. Here's the actual definition from wiki, in case you think I'm making it up: there is a worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world, essentially, and they control everything. They control politicians, and they control the media. They control Hollywood, and they cover up their existence, essentially. And they would have continued ruling the world, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump in this conspiracy theory knows all about this evil cabal's wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them, basically. And now we would be ignorant of this behind-the-scenes battle of Donald Trump and the U.S. military—that everyone backs him and the evil cabal—were it not for "Q." And what "Q" is is basically a poster on 4chan, who later moved to 8chan, who reveals details about this secret behind-the-scenes battle, and also secrets about what the cabal is doing and also the mass sort of upcoming arrest events through these posts.[29]
Followers of QAnon also believe that there is an imminent event known as "The Storm", in which thousands of people, members of the cabal, will be arrested, possibly sent to Guantanamo Bay prison or to face military tribunals, and the U.S. military will brutally take over the country.[29] The result of The Storm will be salvation and utopia on earth.[38] If you want a longer story, https://www.salon.com/2019/08/18/qanon-is-the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-die-heres-what-they-believe-and-why-theyre-wrong/ was the source of the quote. What from that post am I supposed to respond to? I presume that's an accurate enough description of QAnon from what I've heard. The problem with QAnon, aside from their adherents seemingly being crazy people is their seeming inability to conceive of this as being a symptom of a systemic problem. So instead of ‘oh yeah the rich and powerful can get away with all sorts of stuff the rest of us can by account of being rich and powerful, I suppose that would extend to trafficking’, it’s a whole framing of shadowy cabals and sacrifices and the kind of cartoonish evil you’d see in a kid’s cartoon or something. We’re hitting peak levels of cognitive dissonance where Trump who indisputably did brush shoulders with Epstein but somehow is not only not implicated (anyone else who so much as had a conversation with Epstein is of course) but is actively fighting these cabals, somehow. Simone Biles herself pales in comparison to the kind of gymnastics QAnon have to pull out to make their narrative come together.
I don't disagree with any of that. I think one of the reasons it persists (and what I was getting at) is directly related to Epstein.
I think part of the problem is the answer people (who can readily identify QAnon for the diarrhea it is) have to a question like: "Did Clinton know Epstein was running a child sex trafficking ring?"
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On August 24 2020 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 07:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 24 2020 01:48 LegalLord wrote:On August 23 2020 06:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 23 2020 06:27 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 06:12 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 03:39 Doublemint wrote:Absolutely correct, the ugliness was always there. Weaponizing it this expertly by abusing the freedoms granted though is unprecedented. And with social media the reach is near unlimited.
The actual beauty of it is how they made it seem so organic. IIRC I also posted about it in the past with a fascinating WaPo article. //edit: Russian trolls can be surprisingly subtle, and often fun to read Oh god, we're back to how masterful the Bernie coloring book,Trump vs Satan ads, and pointing out 1+1 = 2 were... Do people think Russia is exponentially better at influencing elections/kindling divisions and stuff than the NSA/CIA/etc or what? I do not, probably very similar. Do you not think the US has influenced other countries elections? That would be pathetic given their relative size, budgets, and available tech. Of course they have. They've openly admitted to it several times. Up to and including helping to forcibly remove democratically elected leaders (you can think of Chile specifically) So what point are you making? If anything you are saying how careful the US needs to be. If anyone knows what is possible it is them. Social media, and the internet in general really evened the playing field. Why is the US so vulnerable to Russian interference and yet seemingly impervious to relative European norms in terms of influence and not exactly a huge fan of China all round? Careful of what? The world’s superpower in waiting apparently can’t wield this influence, a relatively joined up European bloc can’t but Russia can? Didn't several of the major intelligence leaks - the ones that sparked the larger scale investi-gate movement that got a lot of Trump's grifter friends in trouble - originate from "allied" nations in Europe? Whether or not you think that such an approach is justified, it certainly did have a significant influence on the course of the last few years while being of decidedly European origin. So Europe certainly did have an influence, albeit in an uglier than desired way? + Show Spoiler +That it did. I suppose the charges against Russia (and others too) are somewhat two-tiered. On one hand there’s leaks of ‘official’ information, obtained via whatever means that pertains to individuals with power in various fields. On the other there’s the charge that there’s a wider focused poisoning of the well on platforms the populace use, be it disseminating ‘fake news’ or fostering skepticism for information that has veracity.
To be clear I don’t doubt efforts have been made in this domain, my main irritation is why the focus on Russia, (or indeed China)? They’re exploiting clear vulnerabilities in technical and cultural systems, there comes a point the systems themselves are where the microscope should be turned. Most of the big players in terms of disseminating information, not just to American citizens but most of the non-Chinese world are all American companies after all. The potential issues in how that power is wielded has been long-discussed, albeit in a way that hasn’t entered the public consciousness by and large. Ye olde Russian chicanery could have been the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of general apathy in properly delving into these issues but that hasn’t really happened just yet. Just as the 2008 financial crisis could have been the big reveal of all the bullshit going on there and to treat the root problem, instead largely only the symptoms were addressed and the impetus for more meaningful reforms were squandered. Just wanted to mention this is a great post and it's good to know that some people are seeing this. Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 07:59 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 24 2020 07:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 06:35 Erasme wrote:On August 24 2020 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is nothing double edged really. That in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event doesn't change the nature of the diarrhea. Plus you don't need to have a completely paranoid worldview to assume that, yeah, some rich and powerful people are probably sex maniacs, and using their money and influence to indulge their twisted fantasies. That description makes it sound like a weird fetish instead of the massive criminal child trafficking conspiracy implicating popular and powerful figures that have faced virtually 0 accountability and where the central figure died under questionable circumstances while in official custody. "Q" largely seems like a way to avoid dealing with that by lumping it in with crazed conspiracies. You are incredibly stupid if you believe something that comes out of 4chan. There's nothing more to say about Q that wasn't already described by the term "diarrhea". The "it" there is referring to the very real child sex trafficking ring run by Epstein being lumped in with 4chan conspiracies. Just as an example, if you read a tweet that said: Clinton and a lot of other politicians, celebrities, and wealthy people are implicated in a child sex trafficking ring The ambiguity between whether they are referencing Epstein or 4chan diarrhea is a win for anyone implicated in the former. On August 24 2020 07:13 Belisarius wrote:Good to see you're again following Danglars' playbook of responding to one liners and completely ignoring the informative and detailed responses that make good points. It makes for a very productive discussion. EDIT dammit page. let's all read Nevuk's post instead. On August 24 2020 06:25 Nevuk wrote:Q is a lot crazier than you guys seem to think it is. It's considerably less sane than pizza gate, which started off of the premise GH is referring to and failed to account for basic facts (cheese pizza means cheese pizza to everyone but pedophiles on 4chan, and that pizza place in question didn't even have a basement, which was where all acts were alleged to have taken place). Q is a series of batshit insane predictions/conspiracies that are posted anonymously (anyone can claim to be Q (sort of, there's a code they use to identify themselves but it HAS changed a few times)), are always proven wrong, and that once proven wrong, have insane levels of post-hoc justification applied to prove that whatever happened was what they 'really' meant. It's not just "child molestation", it's "pedophile's having satanic orgies where they sacrifice children to baphomet so hillary can resume her rule the earth (which has only existed for 6000 years and is flat, and on a space elevator constantly going up, which is where gravity comes from), and Trump is going to throw all of the deepstate in prison on the first of <insert next month> <insert year>". Now they're not all flat-earthers, but there's a large overlap between Qanons, flat-earthers, and religious zealots/creationists. So you know, lunatics, in conventonial parlance. These are the people standing on a street corner shouting the world is ending, but now they have twitter and can talk to each other. Here's the actual definition from wiki, in case you think I'm making it up: there is a worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world, essentially, and they control everything. They control politicians, and they control the media. They control Hollywood, and they cover up their existence, essentially. And they would have continued ruling the world, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump in this conspiracy theory knows all about this evil cabal's wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them, basically. And now we would be ignorant of this behind-the-scenes battle of Donald Trump and the U.S. military—that everyone backs him and the evil cabal—were it not for "Q." And what "Q" is is basically a poster on 4chan, who later moved to 8chan, who reveals details about this secret behind-the-scenes battle, and also secrets about what the cabal is doing and also the mass sort of upcoming arrest events through these posts.[29]
Followers of QAnon also believe that there is an imminent event known as "The Storm", in which thousands of people, members of the cabal, will be arrested, possibly sent to Guantanamo Bay prison or to face military tribunals, and the U.S. military will brutally take over the country.[29] The result of The Storm will be salvation and utopia on earth.[38] If you want a longer story, https://www.salon.com/2019/08/18/qanon-is-the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-die-heres-what-they-believe-and-why-theyre-wrong/ was the source of the quote. What from that post am I supposed to respond to? I presume that's an accurate enough description of QAnon from what I've heard. The problem with QAnon, aside from their adherents seemingly being crazy people is their seeming inability to conceive of this as being a symptom of a systemic problem. So instead of ‘oh yeah the rich and powerful can get away with all sorts of stuff the rest of us can by account of being rich and powerful, I suppose that would extend to trafficking’, it’s a whole framing of shadowy cabals and sacrifices and the kind of cartoonish evil you’d see in a kid’s cartoon or something. We’re hitting peak levels of cognitive dissonance where Trump who indisputably did brush shoulders with Epstein but somehow is not only not implicated (anyone else who so much as had a conversation with Epstein is of course) but is actively fighting these cabals, somehow. Simone Biles herself pales in comparison to the kind of gymnastics QAnon have to pull out to make their narrative come together. I don't disagree with any of that. I think one of the reasons it persists (and what I was getting at) is directly related to Epstein. I think part of the problem is the answer people (who can readily identify QAnon for the diarrhea it is) have to a question like: "Did Clinton know Epstein was running a child sex trafficking ring?"
I suppose I have my moments haha.
It’s certainly possible, I wouldn’t exactly rule it out, equally it’s entirely possible they rubbed shoulders at various high falutin fundraisers and the whole trafficking thing didn’t come up.
I mean societally as an aside people seem pretty reluctant to look at the issue of general trafficking and the general leveraging of various forms of coercive sexual force outside of the underrate factor.
I mean this kind of behaviour is pretty repugnant beyond whether the young women involved are 17 or 18.
I’m rather confused as to how Prince Andrew can have behaved as he did, with such unconvincing explanations given and whose job is birthrite and the parameters merely being not fucking up and being embroiled in a scandal and he’s still dandering about largely as before.
It’s not clownish and amusing buffoonery it’s predatory behaviour
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On August 24 2020 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 07:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 24 2020 01:48 LegalLord wrote:On August 23 2020 06:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 23 2020 06:27 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 06:12 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 03:39 Doublemint wrote:Absolutely correct, the ugliness was always there. Weaponizing it this expertly by abusing the freedoms granted though is unprecedented. And with social media the reach is near unlimited.
The actual beauty of it is how they made it seem so organic. IIRC I also posted about it in the past with a fascinating WaPo article. //edit: Russian trolls can be surprisingly subtle, and often fun to read Oh god, we're back to how masterful the Bernie coloring book,Trump vs Satan ads, and pointing out 1+1 = 2 were... Do people think Russia is exponentially better at influencing elections/kindling divisions and stuff than the NSA/CIA/etc or what? I do not, probably very similar. Do you not think the US has influenced other countries elections? That would be pathetic given their relative size, budgets, and available tech. Of course they have. They've openly admitted to it several times. Up to and including helping to forcibly remove democratically elected leaders (you can think of Chile specifically) So what point are you making? If anything you are saying how careful the US needs to be. If anyone knows what is possible it is them. Social media, and the internet in general really evened the playing field. Why is the US so vulnerable to Russian interference and yet seemingly impervious to relative European norms in terms of influence and not exactly a huge fan of China all round? Careful of what? The world’s superpower in waiting apparently can’t wield this influence, a relatively joined up European bloc can’t but Russia can? Didn't several of the major intelligence leaks - the ones that sparked the larger scale investi-gate movement that got a lot of Trump's grifter friends in trouble - originate from "allied" nations in Europe? Whether or not you think that such an approach is justified, it certainly did have a significant influence on the course of the last few years while being of decidedly European origin. So Europe certainly did have an influence, albeit in an uglier than desired way? + Show Spoiler +That it did. I suppose the charges against Russia (and others too) are somewhat two-tiered. On one hand there’s leaks of ‘official’ information, obtained via whatever means that pertains to individuals with power in various fields. On the other there’s the charge that there’s a wider focused poisoning of the well on platforms the populace use, be it disseminating ‘fake news’ or fostering skepticism for information that has veracity.
To be clear I don’t doubt efforts have been made in this domain, my main irritation is why the focus on Russia, (or indeed China)? They’re exploiting clear vulnerabilities in technical and cultural systems, there comes a point the systems themselves are where the microscope should be turned. Most of the big players in terms of disseminating information, not just to American citizens but most of the non-Chinese world are all American companies after all. The potential issues in how that power is wielded has been long-discussed, albeit in a way that hasn’t entered the public consciousness by and large. Ye olde Russian chicanery could have been the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of general apathy in properly delving into these issues but that hasn’t really happened just yet. Just as the 2008 financial crisis could have been the big reveal of all the bullshit going on there and to treat the root problem, instead largely only the symptoms were addressed and the impetus for more meaningful reforms were squandered. Just wanted to mention this is a great post and it's good to know that some people are seeing this. Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 07:59 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 24 2020 07:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 06:35 Erasme wrote:On August 24 2020 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is nothing double edged really. That in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event doesn't change the nature of the diarrhea. Plus you don't need to have a completely paranoid worldview to assume that, yeah, some rich and powerful people are probably sex maniacs, and using their money and influence to indulge their twisted fantasies. That description makes it sound like a weird fetish instead of the massive criminal child trafficking conspiracy implicating popular and powerful figures that have faced virtually 0 accountability and where the central figure died under questionable circumstances while in official custody. "Q" largely seems like a way to avoid dealing with that by lumping it in with crazed conspiracies. You are incredibly stupid if you believe something that comes out of 4chan. There's nothing more to say about Q that wasn't already described by the term "diarrhea". The "it" there is referring to the very real child sex trafficking ring run by Epstein being lumped in with 4chan conspiracies. Just as an example, if you read a tweet that said: Clinton and a lot of other politicians, celebrities, and wealthy people are implicated in a child sex trafficking ring The ambiguity between whether they are referencing Epstein or 4chan diarrhea is a win for anyone implicated in the former. On August 24 2020 07:13 Belisarius wrote:Good to see you're again following Danglars' playbook of responding to one liners and completely ignoring the informative and detailed responses that make good points. It makes for a very productive discussion. EDIT dammit page. let's all read Nevuk's post instead. On August 24 2020 06:25 Nevuk wrote:Q is a lot crazier than you guys seem to think it is. It's considerably less sane than pizza gate, which started off of the premise GH is referring to and failed to account for basic facts (cheese pizza means cheese pizza to everyone but pedophiles on 4chan, and that pizza place in question didn't even have a basement, which was where all acts were alleged to have taken place). Q is a series of batshit insane predictions/conspiracies that are posted anonymously (anyone can claim to be Q (sort of, there's a code they use to identify themselves but it HAS changed a few times)), are always proven wrong, and that once proven wrong, have insane levels of post-hoc justification applied to prove that whatever happened was what they 'really' meant. It's not just "child molestation", it's "pedophile's having satanic orgies where they sacrifice children to baphomet so hillary can resume her rule the earth (which has only existed for 6000 years and is flat, and on a space elevator constantly going up, which is where gravity comes from), and Trump is going to throw all of the deepstate in prison on the first of <insert next month> <insert year>". Now they're not all flat-earthers, but there's a large overlap between Qanons, flat-earthers, and religious zealots/creationists. So you know, lunatics, in conventonial parlance. These are the people standing on a street corner shouting the world is ending, but now they have twitter and can talk to each other. Here's the actual definition from wiki, in case you think I'm making it up: there is a worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world, essentially, and they control everything. They control politicians, and they control the media. They control Hollywood, and they cover up their existence, essentially. And they would have continued ruling the world, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump in this conspiracy theory knows all about this evil cabal's wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them, basically. And now we would be ignorant of this behind-the-scenes battle of Donald Trump and the U.S. military—that everyone backs him and the evil cabal—were it not for "Q." And what "Q" is is basically a poster on 4chan, who later moved to 8chan, who reveals details about this secret behind-the-scenes battle, and also secrets about what the cabal is doing and also the mass sort of upcoming arrest events through these posts.[29]
Followers of QAnon also believe that there is an imminent event known as "The Storm", in which thousands of people, members of the cabal, will be arrested, possibly sent to Guantanamo Bay prison or to face military tribunals, and the U.S. military will brutally take over the country.[29] The result of The Storm will be salvation and utopia on earth.[38] If you want a longer story, https://www.salon.com/2019/08/18/qanon-is-the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-die-heres-what-they-believe-and-why-theyre-wrong/ was the source of the quote. What from that post am I supposed to respond to? I presume that's an accurate enough description of QAnon from what I've heard. The problem with QAnon, aside from their adherents seemingly being crazy people is their seeming inability to conceive of this as being a symptom of a systemic problem. So instead of ‘oh yeah the rich and powerful can get away with all sorts of stuff the rest of us can by account of being rich and powerful, I suppose that would extend to trafficking’, it’s a whole framing of shadowy cabals and sacrifices and the kind of cartoonish evil you’d see in a kid’s cartoon or something. We’re hitting peak levels of cognitive dissonance where Trump who indisputably did brush shoulders with Epstein but somehow is not only not implicated (anyone else who so much as had a conversation with Epstein is of course) but is actively fighting these cabals, somehow. Simone Biles herself pales in comparison to the kind of gymnastics QAnon have to pull out to make their narrative come together. I don't disagree with any of that. I think one of the reasons it persists (and what I was getting at) is directly related to Epstein. I think part of the problem is the answer people (who can readily identify QAnon for the diarrhea it is) have to a question like: "Did Clinton know Epstein was running a child sex trafficking ring?"
He probably did. Was he involved in a satanic cannibalistic pedo cult with Tom Hanks ? Probably not. Can you see which part is diarrhea and which isn't ?
Your whole line of reasoning is that Q is real and hiding truth between lies to protect himself. Which will lead you to believe almost anything. Welcome to conspiracy theory 101.
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On August 24 2020 09:18 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2020 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 07:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 24 2020 01:48 LegalLord wrote:On August 23 2020 06:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 23 2020 06:27 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 06:12 JimmiC wrote:On August 23 2020 06:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 03:39 Doublemint wrote:Absolutely correct, the ugliness was always there. Weaponizing it this expertly by abusing the freedoms granted though is unprecedented. And with social media the reach is near unlimited.
The actual beauty of it is how they made it seem so organic. IIRC I also posted about it in the past with a fascinating WaPo article. //edit: Russian trolls can be surprisingly subtle, and often fun to read Oh god, we're back to how masterful the Bernie coloring book,Trump vs Satan ads, and pointing out 1+1 = 2 were... Do people think Russia is exponentially better at influencing elections/kindling divisions and stuff than the NSA/CIA/etc or what? I do not, probably very similar. Do you not think the US has influenced other countries elections? That would be pathetic given their relative size, budgets, and available tech. Of course they have. They've openly admitted to it several times. Up to and including helping to forcibly remove democratically elected leaders (you can think of Chile specifically) So what point are you making? If anything you are saying how careful the US needs to be. If anyone knows what is possible it is them. Social media, and the internet in general really evened the playing field. Why is the US so vulnerable to Russian interference and yet seemingly impervious to relative European norms in terms of influence and not exactly a huge fan of China all round? Careful of what? The world’s superpower in waiting apparently can’t wield this influence, a relatively joined up European bloc can’t but Russia can? Didn't several of the major intelligence leaks - the ones that sparked the larger scale investi-gate movement that got a lot of Trump's grifter friends in trouble - originate from "allied" nations in Europe? Whether or not you think that such an approach is justified, it certainly did have a significant influence on the course of the last few years while being of decidedly European origin. So Europe certainly did have an influence, albeit in an uglier than desired way? + Show Spoiler +That it did. I suppose the charges against Russia (and others too) are somewhat two-tiered. On one hand there’s leaks of ‘official’ information, obtained via whatever means that pertains to individuals with power in various fields. On the other there’s the charge that there’s a wider focused poisoning of the well on platforms the populace use, be it disseminating ‘fake news’ or fostering skepticism for information that has veracity.
To be clear I don’t doubt efforts have been made in this domain, my main irritation is why the focus on Russia, (or indeed China)? They’re exploiting clear vulnerabilities in technical and cultural systems, there comes a point the systems themselves are where the microscope should be turned. Most of the big players in terms of disseminating information, not just to American citizens but most of the non-Chinese world are all American companies after all. The potential issues in how that power is wielded has been long-discussed, albeit in a way that hasn’t entered the public consciousness by and large. Ye olde Russian chicanery could have been the straw that broke the camel’s back in terms of general apathy in properly delving into these issues but that hasn’t really happened just yet. Just as the 2008 financial crisis could have been the big reveal of all the bullshit going on there and to treat the root problem, instead largely only the symptoms were addressed and the impetus for more meaningful reforms were squandered. Just wanted to mention this is a great post and it's good to know that some people are seeing this. On August 24 2020 07:59 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 24 2020 07:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 24 2020 06:35 Erasme wrote:On August 24 2020 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 23 2020 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is nothing double edged really. That in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event doesn't change the nature of the diarrhea. Plus you don't need to have a completely paranoid worldview to assume that, yeah, some rich and powerful people are probably sex maniacs, and using their money and influence to indulge their twisted fantasies. That description makes it sound like a weird fetish instead of the massive criminal child trafficking conspiracy implicating popular and powerful figures that have faced virtually 0 accountability and where the central figure died under questionable circumstances while in official custody. "Q" largely seems like a way to avoid dealing with that by lumping it in with crazed conspiracies. You are incredibly stupid if you believe something that comes out of 4chan. There's nothing more to say about Q that wasn't already described by the term "diarrhea". The "it" there is referring to the very real child sex trafficking ring run by Epstein being lumped in with 4chan conspiracies. Just as an example, if you read a tweet that said: Clinton and a lot of other politicians, celebrities, and wealthy people are implicated in a child sex trafficking ring The ambiguity between whether they are referencing Epstein or 4chan diarrhea is a win for anyone implicated in the former. On August 24 2020 07:13 Belisarius wrote:Good to see you're again following Danglars' playbook of responding to one liners and completely ignoring the informative and detailed responses that make good points. It makes for a very productive discussion. EDIT dammit page. let's all read Nevuk's post instead. On August 24 2020 06:25 Nevuk wrote:Q is a lot crazier than you guys seem to think it is. It's considerably less sane than pizza gate, which started off of the premise GH is referring to and failed to account for basic facts (cheese pizza means cheese pizza to everyone but pedophiles on 4chan, and that pizza place in question didn't even have a basement, which was where all acts were alleged to have taken place). Q is a series of batshit insane predictions/conspiracies that are posted anonymously (anyone can claim to be Q (sort of, there's a code they use to identify themselves but it HAS changed a few times)), are always proven wrong, and that once proven wrong, have insane levels of post-hoc justification applied to prove that whatever happened was what they 'really' meant. It's not just "child molestation", it's "pedophile's having satanic orgies where they sacrifice children to baphomet so hillary can resume her rule the earth (which has only existed for 6000 years and is flat, and on a space elevator constantly going up, which is where gravity comes from), and Trump is going to throw all of the deepstate in prison on the first of <insert next month> <insert year>". Now they're not all flat-earthers, but there's a large overlap between Qanons, flat-earthers, and religious zealots/creationists. So you know, lunatics, in conventonial parlance. These are the people standing on a street corner shouting the world is ending, but now they have twitter and can talk to each other. Here's the actual definition from wiki, in case you think I'm making it up: there is a worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world, essentially, and they control everything. They control politicians, and they control the media. They control Hollywood, and they cover up their existence, essentially. And they would have continued ruling the world, were it not for the election of President Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump in this conspiracy theory knows all about this evil cabal's wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them, basically. And now we would be ignorant of this behind-the-scenes battle of Donald Trump and the U.S. military—that everyone backs him and the evil cabal—were it not for "Q." And what "Q" is is basically a poster on 4chan, who later moved to 8chan, who reveals details about this secret behind-the-scenes battle, and also secrets about what the cabal is doing and also the mass sort of upcoming arrest events through these posts.[29]
Followers of QAnon also believe that there is an imminent event known as "The Storm", in which thousands of people, members of the cabal, will be arrested, possibly sent to Guantanamo Bay prison or to face military tribunals, and the U.S. military will brutally take over the country.[29] The result of The Storm will be salvation and utopia on earth.[38] If you want a longer story, https://www.salon.com/2019/08/18/qanon-is-the-conspiracy-theory-that-wont-die-heres-what-they-believe-and-why-theyre-wrong/ was the source of the quote. What from that post am I supposed to respond to? I presume that's an accurate enough description of QAnon from what I've heard. The problem with QAnon, aside from their adherents seemingly being crazy people is their seeming inability to conceive of this as being a symptom of a systemic problem. So instead of ‘oh yeah the rich and powerful can get away with all sorts of stuff the rest of us can by account of being rich and powerful, I suppose that would extend to trafficking’, it’s a whole framing of shadowy cabals and sacrifices and the kind of cartoonish evil you’d see in a kid’s cartoon or something. We’re hitting peak levels of cognitive dissonance where Trump who indisputably did brush shoulders with Epstein but somehow is not only not implicated (anyone else who so much as had a conversation with Epstein is of course) but is actively fighting these cabals, somehow. Simone Biles herself pales in comparison to the kind of gymnastics QAnon have to pull out to make their narrative come together. I don't disagree with any of that. I think one of the reasons it persists (and what I was getting at) is directly related to Epstein. I think part of the problem is the answer people (who can readily identify QAnon for the diarrhea it is) have to a question like: "Did Clinton know Epstein was running a child sex trafficking ring?" He probably did. okay, that's a problem right?
Was he involved in a satanic cannibalistic pedo cult with Tom Hanks ? Probably not. Can you see which part is diarrhea and which isn't ? Yes, I thought I made that clear.
Your whole line of reasoning is that Q is real and hiding truth between lies to protect himself. Which will lead you to believe almost anything. Welcome to conspiracy theory 101.
wut? EDIT: I'll just say that sounds ridiculous. If I was choosing between that description or Biff's + Show Spoiler +in this diarrhea of lies, conspiracy theories and lunacies, one of the item happens to resemble a real life event
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Rahm Emanuel indicates Biden might be the new Reagan, and you know thats kind of a frightening comparison when you look at them. Hes specifically referring to "Reagan Democrats" as important Reagan's landslide victories and believes we may see "Biden Republicans" in much the same way.
I hate it because shit like,
"The lack of support for a “Green New Deal” and “Medicare for All” in the Democratic platform helps the party balance between the desires of the moderate and more progressive members, Emanuel said on CNBC."
To anyone else reading this, in what world does NOT supporting two HUGELY important progressive policies fucking BALANCE moderate and progressive desires?
This kind of shit is why Progressives dont want to associate with the Democrats, they don't want us, they think we are OWED to them, they'd rather drive right and court Republicans than us. I find it so much harder day by day to think, "yeah I feel comfortable enabling Democrats to be more and more rightwing."
From the bottom of my heart I hope we see another party paradigm shift and Republicans cease to exist, Democrats finally take up the mantle of the Republicans that they've been drooling over and we get a real ACTUAL party that represents Progressives and doesn't exclusively desire to fuck over the average american.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/this-will-be-the-year-of-the-biden-republican-rahm-emanuel-says.html
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On August 24 2020 10:57 JimmiC wrote:
I have been thinking about a third party in the states, and I think it would end up Progressive Democrats/Moderate Democrats and Moderate Republicans/Far right - Trump party.
But then I'm not sure that it would be good for progressives as I think the middle party would have the most votes, the far right the 2nd most, and concentrated in the south making them almost guaranteed to win some of those, and then the progressives would be mostly in the north but I'm not sure if there is enough to beat the middle there.
So while I agree the Green Deal would be best, I think it is impossible in 2020. The best that can be done is whatever the left can convince Biden to do. The good news is that with Trump being absolutely horrible for the environment and being proud of it, there are a lot more dems on board if only to stick to the Trumpers.
The anti Trump sentiment might be enough to push some Dems further left than they thought.
I also can't really get behind Medicaid for all. While it is way better than now, a public health system is better in almost every way. You no longer have hospitals shutting down less profitable hospitals to have fewer extra profitable ones which has been proven to increase mortality rates with further distances from where people live. You lose all the motivation for government or health care to work on prevention instead of the way more expensive fixing. You are not going to have things like super high taxes on cigarettes, or tax breaks for fitness expediters or any of the synergies that come with having your government actively working to lower health care spending since it is all on them. And it becoming even a bigger political issue because it effects everyone.
The only thing worse than private health care is private prisons. You really REALLY don't want your prisons actively be profiting from repeat customers, and longer staying customers. It is partly why there is so much "tougher" on crime politicians, prison lobby groups and so on.
TLDR - Until the states has more progressives you probably will get more of your platform done by working with Biden and the American center than you will get on your own. And Trump being so horrible might have some benefits for left, if they can beat him in November.
The left isnt really running against Trump this go around though, and Im pretty sure we'll get literally none of our platform done by working with Biden because they've made it super clear they aren't willing to do anything we want, and not only are they not willing they'll declare it a compromise to do nothing.
Anti-Trump sentiment stops meaning shit when Trump is gone too, so once were back to Traditional Republican Bullshit where does that enthusiasm go? Itll likely try to get channeled into the "WE CAN'T LET [nondescript ass republican] WIN, WE MIGHT NOT BE GREAT BUT THEYRE WORSE!" that allows the Democrats to not adopt Progressive policies and believe that the threat of a Republican basically hostage-situations us into voting for them.
If I can bring myself to vote for Biden without vomiting all over myself I'm going to actively start voting 3rd party from there on out til a real Progressive agenda takes hold. If its milquetoast Republican over and over frankly I might vote Republican over more Bidens or Kamala Harris-types.
Also I agree that a public health system is the best and its what I want, I'm honestly not particularly willing for the more settling type of versions like revamping Obamacare or something.
And about private prisons and the like, I also agree, theyre sinfully disgusting, modern slavery, abominable and despicable practice. I don't believe the Democrats will do fuck all about them or about police brutality or anything, so its another sticking point of, "why should I vote Democrat when they dont want to do anything that I think improves the country."
They seem desperate to be not be Progressive and its just gross to me.
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Theyre not doing it to be mean, theyre doing it because there are no other options to vote for and the people we have to vote for know that we dont have options so they can basically wiggle around doing anything but sucking corporate teat while pretending to care about voters.
I'm not interested in convincing the unconvincable. A lot of these people frankly either AGREE already (like a lot of the policy that is overwhelmingly popular if polled on but never gets acted on because regardless of whether or not its popular people are convinced they dont want they thing they want when asked if they want it) or they DONT AGREE and are just going to be engaged with, go "God, the progressive types are so obnoxious always complaining about human rights abuses, they really turn me off from supporting them," as if someone like that was ever going to support progressivism.
The idea that the Market Place of Ideas exists as a useful tool when it comes to our system of government is basically dead imo. The only Market Place of anything that holds sway over our politicians is the literal Market Place that throws money at them. Discourse doesn't solve a two party system where neither party gives a shit. Worst case scenario one side loses, nothing changes, they continue making their gross amount of money, cycle repeats, nothing improves except the bank accounts of some jackass politicians.
Also Im not familiar with what a safe consumption site is, but in general I don't believe progressive policies will always work 100% of the time and in every scenario the first time, trial and error will have to be done to build along what we know works in other parts of the world, but that people believe shit has to be 100% perfect the first time around is so asinine. I swear for a country so obsessed with Bootstraps you'd think we had it within our collective conscious to acknowledge that sometimes you have to WORK at things to make them better.
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I'm all for that. I really am. But fuck this covert recording shit. That's such an invasion of privacy. People will say a bunch of shit off the record with the implicit understanding it isn't being recorded. Now, no matter who you are, you have to just be silent for fear of being recorded.
Edit: To clarify something. If you know the person you're recording is an awful piece of shit or it's wiretap for whatever police sting operation, then by all means. But if it's just someone talking, then don't. It's a simple concept.
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On August 24 2020 11:50 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I'm all for that. I really am. But fuck this covert recording shit. That's such an invasion of privacy. People will say a bunch of shit off the record with the implicit understanding it isn't being recorded. Now, no matter who you are, you have to just be silent for fear of being recorded.
The whole situation there is very confusing.
Mary Trump has every reason to despise Donald, who cut her side of the family out of much of their inheritance. It's not a surprise at all that she would be writing a bashing, tell-all book about him, to anyone with even a vague knowledge of their family. That her aunt wouldn't have realized this is almost beyond-belief. Especially given the ridiculous numbers of conversations that happened and length of the recordings that exist (several hours?).
It is totally plausible that she covertly told Mary it was fine to use the quotes/recording, but also told her niece wasn't allowed to say she had permission (some of these quotes note that she really wants him to stop being president because of how much it's hurting the family).
The average person really doesn't have to worry about being covertly recorded unless they're behaving so badly that it would be a headline even without the video. It's also not legal in many states (check if you're a two party consent state if you're really worried)
In Other News :
Kellyanne Conway is leaving the WH and George Conway is leaving the Lincoln Foundation. Kellyanne was key in Trump's campaign last time - remember how he kept asking "Black people, what the hell do you have to lose?". That was her - she knew no black people would listen to that, but the point was that it reassured white suburban women that he wasn't a virulent racist. His campaign was already facing an uphill battle, and losing her is a very big loss - almost all of the people surrounding him are extremely incompetent at their jobs, and she was one of the exceptions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kellyanne-conway-white-house/2020/08/23/6c26e18a-e5a7-11ea-bc79-834454439a44_story.html
This comes right after their daughter said she's filing for emancipation, citing abuse :
She did earlier sorta imply that it was because her mom was speaking at the RNC, but uh, she's a 15 year old (she posted she was seeking emancipation 1 minute after saying how devastated she was about it). They tend not to have the clearest communication at all times.
She's also publicly been roasting KellyAnnne on twitter for months, and notes that she also doesn't agree with her dad on anything but Trump.
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Why am I not surprised that they have a screwed up daughter.
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EPT
