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Can someone please enlighten me:
Biden was a senator for A G E'S.
He ran for president several times.
He was the vice president.
He runs again for president.
Do you guys think he never got seriously vetted before? I don't like him, but this showing up "now" just seems so darn convenient if you want to put a shadow on the democratic primaries.
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On May 03 2020 19:19 Velr wrote:
Can someone please enlighten me:
Biden was a senator for A G E'S.
He ran for president several times.
He was the vice president.
He runs again for president.
Do you guys think he never got seriously vetted before? I don't like him, but this showing up "now" just seems so darn convenient if you want to put a shadow on the democratic primaries.
To be fair, the MeToo movement probably liberated things a bit. It's not really that surprising that things would come out in the last 2/3y or so.
I think I saw that Reade still supported Biden as VP and in 2016 though, but I can't find that snippet I read again. Does that ring a bell to anyone or am I dreaming ?
edit : Probably something like this : https://time.com/5831100/joe-biden-tara-reade-allegation/
It's still really, really thin. In both ways.
The really annoying thing in this is the hypocrisy of the republicans, who did NOT investigate or remove any candidate, Roy Moore, Trump, Kavanaugh, when such allegations came out. Now they are basically asking the democrats to take the hit everytime while they never did. This is so nakedly political in essence...
"Oh my god he is not going to release his private files from the Senate" (doesn't matter that no personnel files should be in it, but conversations would. Things that have not been released in any other case involving republicans, on the contrary, sham NDAs against pornstars etc....)
"Oh my god he in not instantly removing his candidacy ! What a hypocrit !!!!" (look who's talking)
To be honest, I'd rather the democrats just remove Biden since he is completely out of touch. He got voted in for nostalgia, I'd prefer someone who would actually be able to do something in the debates, and get the support of decent republicans or people on the edge back. (yeah, talking about Buttigieg, though I know most of you here hate him and being gay is not an asset to get some reps aboard. But he reminds me of Macron, and that looks fine for a return to normality).
How though ? Good question... It's pretty tough since votes have happened and there is little time to do anything else. Maybe if Biden himself endorses someone else (Bgg lacks black support, would an endorsement convince them ? Little chance)
The progressive side demonstrated it is too small for now to get the nomination, and I fear there would be a backlash nationally. But that's on the US being a 2-party system and the US state system being very traditional overall, not the fault of the progs themselves.
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I linked to a recent allegation a while ago that Biden apparently sexually harassed Eva Murry, then a 14-year-old girl at an event in 2008. Turns out that story was bunk when it was dug into because Biden wasn't even at the event as he was having surgery and sent a proxy. Seems like some figures are jumping to report anything Biden-related without doing some proper vetting at this point, and this isn't healthy for the media or politics. There's a lot of journalists eating crow and deleting their tweets and stories or apologizing due to reporting this now.
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On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:55 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 07:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:43 ChristianS wrote:
Joe Biden won the democratic contest for the nomination, so any way of removing him as nominee would be undemocratic. I don’t know why that’s a controversial description. He doesn't have a majority of delegates so he didn't win and him not being the nominee would not be undemocratic. If we just play the rest of the primary like normal I’m absolutely confident he would still win and his critics would quite reasonably point out that he’d won it by the time the allegations were well-known so it wouldn’t mean the “voters had decided” they thought he was innocent. All his competitors have dropped out and endorsed him. That’s what winning looks like. The alternative viewpoint feels like a Terran floating his CC in the corner and saying “well the win condition of the game is...” To be clear: if Biden confessed tomorrow, or if incontrovertible evidence came out, I think the DNC *should* overturn the democratic contest’s result. But nobody should pretend that’s not what they would be doing. Biden himself agreed that without the majority of delegates it would be fair to make someone with less delegates the nominee at the convention. The rest of the primary isn't playing out like normal, New York literally disenfranchised their people from even participating in the Democratic presidential primary (even in the perfunctory way many states have in previous presumptive nominee elections). Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!” New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"?
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-report
First says not explicitly sexual assault
then another "wait no"
Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right.
I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know.
Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened.
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On May 03 2020 19:31 Nouar wrote:
The really annoying thing in this is the hypocrisy of the republicans, who did NOT investigate or remove any candidate, Roy Moore, Trump, Kavanaugh, when such allegations came out. Now they are basically asking the democrats to take the hit everytime while they never did. This is so nakedly political in essence...
It's quite incredible how you've managed to conclude Republicans are the hypocrites here.
The people who set the moral standards and rules are the one who are hypocrites. Republicans didn't set out the illiberal standard of believe all women. The way Democrats handled Kavanaugh and the way they are handling this is the definition of hypocrisy. Frankly, it underlines the cynicism behind these progressive movements and the weaponization of polite agreed norms.
They are right not to depose Biden. It was wrong for Kavanaugh and it's wrong now. It is hypocrisy though unless they thoroughly renounce their prior claims and permanently change their witch hunt standards.
(My Bold)
For my part,I think there are plenty of healthy and legitimate reasons to be very skeptical of Reade. I also think it's almost completely immaterial anyway. Biden could go shoot someone in Oklahoma. Faced with the binary choice in November that changes nothing.
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On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:55 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 07:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:43 ChristianS wrote:
Joe Biden won the democratic contest for the nomination, so any way of removing him as nominee would be undemocratic. I don’t know why that’s a controversial description. He doesn't have a majority of delegates so he didn't win and him not being the nominee would not be undemocratic. If we just play the rest of the primary like normal I’m absolutely confident he would still win and his critics would quite reasonably point out that he’d won it by the time the allegations were well-known so it wouldn’t mean the “voters had decided” they thought he was innocent. All his competitors have dropped out and endorsed him. That’s what winning looks like. The alternative viewpoint feels like a Terran floating his CC in the corner and saying “well the win condition of the game is...” To be clear: if Biden confessed tomorrow, or if incontrovertible evidence came out, I think the DNC *should* overturn the democratic contest’s result. But nobody should pretend that’s not what they would be doing. Biden himself agreed that without the majority of delegates it would be fair to make someone with less delegates the nominee at the convention. The rest of the primary isn't playing out like normal, New York literally disenfranchised their people from even participating in the Democratic presidential primary (even in the perfunctory way many states have in previous presumptive nominee elections). Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!” New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened.
Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019.
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On May 04 2020 04:13 PhoenixVoid wrote:I linked to a recent allegation a while ago that Biden apparently sexually harassed Eva Murry, then a 14-year-old girl at an event in 2008. Turns out that story was bunk when it was dug into because Biden wasn't even at the event as he was having surgery and sent a proxy. Seems like some figures are jumping to report anything Biden-related without doing some proper vetting at this point, and this isn't healthy for the media or politics. There's a lot of journalists eating crow and deleting their tweets and stories or apologizing due to reporting this now.
Rather we go through this now than in 6 months. Going through it now is going to make any last second accusations be a lot weaker.
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On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:55 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 07:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:43 ChristianS wrote:
Joe Biden won the democratic contest for the nomination, so any way of removing him as nominee would be undemocratic. I don’t know why that’s a controversial description. He doesn't have a majority of delegates so he didn't win and him not being the nominee would not be undemocratic. If we just play the rest of the primary like normal I’m absolutely confident he would still win and his critics would quite reasonably point out that he’d won it by the time the allegations were well-known so it wouldn’t mean the “voters had decided” they thought he was innocent. All his competitors have dropped out and endorsed him. That’s what winning looks like. The alternative viewpoint feels like a Terran floating his CC in the corner and saying “well the win condition of the game is...” To be clear: if Biden confessed tomorrow, or if incontrovertible evidence came out, I think the DNC *should* overturn the democratic contest’s result. But nobody should pretend that’s not what they would be doing. Biden himself agreed that without the majority of delegates it would be fair to make someone with less delegates the nominee at the convention. The rest of the primary isn't playing out like normal, New York literally disenfranchised their people from even participating in the Democratic presidential primary (even in the perfunctory way many states have in previous presumptive nominee elections). Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!” New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019.
Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade?
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On May 04 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:55 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 07:49 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
He doesn't have a majority of delegates so he didn't win and him not being the nominee would not be undemocratic. If we just play the rest of the primary like normal I’m absolutely confident he would still win and his critics would quite reasonably point out that he’d won it by the time the allegations were well-known so it wouldn’t mean the “voters had decided” they thought he was innocent. All his competitors have dropped out and endorsed him. That’s what winning looks like. The alternative viewpoint feels like a Terran floating his CC in the corner and saying “well the win condition of the game is...” To be clear: if Biden confessed tomorrow, or if incontrovertible evidence came out, I think the DNC *should* overturn the democratic contest’s result. But nobody should pretend that’s not what they would be doing. Biden himself agreed that without the majority of delegates it would be fair to make someone with less delegates the nominee at the convention. The rest of the primary isn't playing out like normal, New York literally disenfranchised their people from even participating in the Democratic presidential primary (even in the perfunctory way many states have in previous presumptive nominee elections). Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!” New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019. Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade?
I would first say that we can't know what happened sans a confession. We can only infer based on the available information with an appropriate amount of uncertainty.
Some would be:
1. Probability with or without context. It's simply statistically more likely to be true than untrue.
2. Biden's well documented history of lying
3. Biden's well documented history of inappropriate behavior with women and young girls.
4. Biden's own words that women in this situation should get the benefit of the doubt.
That's not to say I know Biden did it (as I've made clear so far), just that by his own metric she should be given the benefit of the doubt.
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I don’t think “give her the benefit of the doubt” means “assume the accused is guilty.” Obviously I’m not Joe Biden and can’t say for sure what he meant, but that doesn’t seem like what that would mean.
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On May 04 2020 13:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 07:55 ChristianS wrote:
[quote]
If we just play the rest of the primary like normal I’m absolutely confident he would still win and his critics would quite reasonably point out that he’d won it by the time the allegations were well-known so it wouldn’t mean the “voters had decided” they thought he was innocent. All his competitors have dropped out and endorsed him. That’s what winning looks like. The alternative viewpoint feels like a Terran floating his CC in the corner and saying “well the win condition of the game is...”
To be clear: if Biden confessed tomorrow, or if incontrovertible evidence came out, I think the DNC *should* overturn the democratic contest’s result. But nobody should pretend that’s not what they would be doing. Biden himself agreed that without the majority of delegates it would be fair to make someone with less delegates the nominee at the convention. The rest of the primary isn't playing out like normal, New York literally disenfranchised their people from even participating in the Democratic presidential primary (even in the perfunctory way many states have in previous presumptive nominee elections). Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!” New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019. Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade? 2. Biden's well documented history of lying
If that is really a problem for Americans in general, then why is Trump the president?
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On May 05 2020 02:49 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2020 13:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Biden himself agreed that without the majority of delegates it would be fair to make someone with less delegates the nominee at the convention.
The rest of the primary isn't playing out like normal, New York literally disenfranchised their people from even participating in the Democratic presidential primary (even in the perfunctory way many states have in previous presumptive nominee elections). Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!” New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019. Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade? 2. Biden's well documented history of lying If that is really a problem for Americans in general, then why is Trump the president?
Because we're holding everybody to actual standards and not just going along with somebody because they have the correct color on.
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On May 05 2020 02:49 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2020 13:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:On May 03 2020 08:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Biden himself agreed that without the majority of delegates it would be fair to make someone with less delegates the nominee at the convention.
The rest of the primary isn't playing out like normal, New York literally disenfranchised their people from even participating in the Democratic presidential primary (even in the perfunctory way many states have in previous presumptive nominee elections). Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!” New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019. Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade? 2. Biden's well documented history of lying If that is really a problem for Americans in general, then why is Trump the president?
He's not saying a history of lying means he shouldn't be president, though I imagine he also thinks that. He is saying that since Biden has a history of lying, we should not believe his denial of whatever it is Reade can't seem to decide happened. Whenever Reade decides what she actually thinks happened, Biden disagrees it happened, but since Biden has verifiably lied before, we should not believe his denial.
The problem is that not believing Biden doesn't mean believing Reade. Reade and Biden can both be liars. A history of lying does not mean someone must always be lying, but it does mean that it is appropriate to ask for more evidence when they are saying something is true.
If I said Biden bit my penis off when I was 8, Biden would still have a history of lying, but it wouldn't mean my accusation is true. It isn't sufficient to show Biden has lied. GH must show Reade should be believed.
At this point, this is already fading so fast that it doesn't even really matter. Lots of tweets being deleted and whatnot from journalists who were hopping on this.
Does anyone have a clear idea of what Reade is even saying happened or what she reported to who?
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On May 05 2020 03:16 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2020 02:49 Elizar wrote:On May 04 2020 13:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:
[quote]
Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!”
New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019. Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade? 2. Biden's well documented history of lying If that is really a problem for Americans in general, then why is Trump the president? Because we're holding everybody to actual standards and not just going along with somebody because they have the correct color on.
Some of us anyway. The point there was just that a known, well-documented liar, has less credibility when denying guilt than a not well-documented liar.
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I think this is more political than CVirus so it's going in this thread. NYT is reporting that the WH has been given estimates that the deaths are going to double by the end of June. Nate Silver has cast some skepticism some on the validity of the model and some possible motives for leaking it.
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On May 05 2020 03:16 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2020 02:49 Elizar wrote:On May 04 2020 13:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 08:15 ChristianS wrote:
[quote]
Come on, this is silly. “Dark didn’t really win the GSL, the win condition is killing all your opponent’s buildings and he didn’t do that once!”
New York should reschedule their primary/figure out how to do it by mail. The presidential nomination is locked up but there are other issues on primary ballots that matter. But if they rescheduled it Biden would still win it, and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered. As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019. Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade? 2. Biden's well documented history of lying If that is really a problem for Americans in general, then why is Trump the president? Because we're holding everybody to actual standards and not just going along with somebody because they have the correct color on.
From an outsider point of view (i.e. not being an American), that response has to a joke right? As much as I want to believe you, the fact that Trump is president contradicts that, espescially the last part.
On the other hand: I believe you, when you say, that you have actual standards and do not care about correct colors, but who do mean by "we"? It can´t be Americans in general, at least not the voting ones.
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On May 05 2020 06:47 Nevuk wrote:I think this is more political than CVirus so it's going in this thread. NYT is reporting that the WH has been given estimates that the deaths are going to double by the end of June. Nate Silver has cast some skepticism some on the validity of the model and some possible motives for leaking it. + Show Spoiler +
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump starts overestimating/ overcorrecting for the impact of coronavirus right now, as right now he's also obsessed with blaming China and everyone else for the coronavirus's effect on Americans. He's certainly received plenty of deserved criticism for downplaying/ dragging his feet/ not being prepared for the coronavirus over the past few months, so maybe switching his message from "it's no big deal" to "i want to somehow exaggerate the situation, so when it's not as bad as i predict, i'll get credit for defeating it before it got too extreme".
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On May 05 2020 15:06 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2020 03:16 Gahlo wrote:On May 05 2020 02:49 Elizar wrote:On May 04 2020 13:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 12:40 Mohdoo wrote:On May 04 2020 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 04 2020 04:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 15:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 03 2020 14:33 Nyxisto wrote:
To use the situation right now as some "we can't be sure who would've won folks, this isn't a normal primary!" to cast doubt on the fact that Biden would have won is pretty bad faith. He bombed hard in pretty much every state that wasn't California, IIRC even in Vermont he lost a ton of votes.
It's obviously regrettable that COVID disrupts the entire process but Sanders had virtually zero chances of winning this thing, that's not really debatable Put another way, if Biden died from Covid next week they wouldn't have to change the rules to have a winner that wasn't him, since he never won. On May 03 2020 14:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 03 2020 08:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
I'd say this is more the 4th quarter and Biden's got a lead and the ball but they still play the downs even if the opponents have all but surrendered.
As to New York, they are carrying out a primary, they just took the presidential primary off the ballot disenfranchising those voters and coincidentally preventing them from netting Bernie delegates for the other things decided at the convention by delegate votes. Probably suppress progressive turnout for the other primaries as well, coincidentally. Bernie endorsed Biden. Any primary anything after that is just silly. And especially with Reade completely falling apart at this point, I'm so done trying to pretend this is even somewhat dramatic. How is Reade "completely falling apart"? https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/02/tara-reade-joe-biden-accusation-sexual-assault-reportFirst says not explicitly sexual assault then another "wait no" https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1256745905832615938Part of this is understandable. It was in 1993. It makes sense for her to have a hard time remembering something 27 years ago. But don't drag this shit on once you make it clear you aren't even sure if you are remembering things right. I also don't think she has done a good job at explaining why this, rather than the other elections, were the time to talk about this. Then again, sometimes people simply aren't able to talk about trauma until a lot of time goes by. I don't know. Right now, I would say roughly 50/50 chance this actually happened. Nothing about that is "completely falling apart". I was always under the impression the complaint wasn't for sexual assault? The article you linked says that is what she told the AP in 2019. Perhaps it would be better to just phrase it like this: In your eyes, why should I believe Reade? 2. Biden's well documented history of lying If that is really a problem for Americans in general, then why is Trump the president? Because we're holding everybody to actual standards and not just going along with somebody because they have the correct color on. From an outsider point of view (i.e. not being an American), that response has to a joke right? As much as I want to believe you, the fact that Trump is president contradicts that, espescially the last part. On the other hand: I believe you, when you say, that you have actual standards and do not care about correct colors, but who do mean by "we"? It can´t be Americans in general, at least not the voting ones.
While the result didn't reflect it, you have to remember that Trump didn't win the popular vote, nor did all the eligible voters vote.
Also, when I say "we", I'm referring to people that went after Trump and are going about Biden about their (potential) misdeeds.
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