EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2227
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Dan HH
Romania9217 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
On April 03 2020 04:15 Dan HH wrote: I've noticed both IRL and online that the debate about masks focuses almost entirely on its effect or lack of it on the wearer, the idea of doing something to protect others from yourself rather than the other way around is quite alien in a "me me me" culture. Exactly, the western framing (of public masks) is around how masks do or don't protect the wearer, whereas countries that understand gen pop masks know they are a matter of courtesy and responsibility to protect society from the wearer not the wearer from society. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On April 03 2020 04:15 Dan HH wrote: I've noticed both IRL and online that the debate about masks focuses almost entirely on its effect or lack of it on the wearer, the idea of doing something to protect others from yourself rather than the other way around is quite alien in a "me me me" culture. Highlights the collectivist/individualist difference in east and west. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18333 Posts
On April 03 2020 04:32 JimmiC wrote: Except that the medical professionals are not suggesting against masks because it won’t help you. They are suggesting it because they don’t think it will stop the spread which means they are interested in the collective. People who get fixated on masks are missing what actually can stop the spread. It didn’t spread in US because people were not wearing masks, it spread because people kept doing all the same stuff, masks would not have stopped it. People not going to bars, spring break and that other stuff would have. The trade-off is quite clear though, and masks really do help, they just don't help the wearer, and if the wearer isn't careful, can increase the risk to him/her. I've worn a mask when I had a nasty cold and wanted to avoid giving it to my parents when I visited them (last year). It's really hard not to fiddle with it and adjust how it sits on your nose. Now I was clearly not afraid of getting anything, so it didn't really matter that I touched my face more than otherwise, and it probably reduced the amount of germs I spread from coughing or sneezing. But in this case it's quite different. If you ask people who think they're healthy to wear masks, you increase their risk of infection if they fiddle with their mask, which they probably will, being inexperienced users like myself. Is that increased risk to healthy mask-wearers worth the decreased risk from people who are unwittingly spreading Covid-19? Math doesn't seem to work out, but it does depend hugely on the probabilities involved, which are largely unknown. Right now, though, the number of people with Covid-19 are ridiculously low in comparison to those without, though, so to have any kind of positive effect the increased chance of infection through face-touching would have to be microscopic in comparison to the benefit from limiting infection through coughing, and it doesn't seem like it is. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10910 Posts
In "western"-culture wearing a facemask, even if deadly sick, was and is just not a thing. The goverment issuing free masks and people actually wearing them is a dilusional idea. Maybe now people would, I still doubt it, but blaming anything on people not wearing masks seems so stupid to me. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
On April 03 2020 07:51 Acrofales wrote: The trade-off is quite clear though, and masks really do help, they just don't help the wearer, and if the wearer isn't careful, can increase the risk to him/her. I've worn a mask when I had a nasty cold and wanted to avoid giving it to my parents when I visited them (last year). It's really hard not to fiddle with it and adjust how it sits on your nose. Now I was clearly not afraid of getting anything, so it didn't really matter that I touched my face more than otherwise, and it probably reduced the amount of germs I spread from coughing or sneezing. But in this case it's quite different. If you ask people who think they're healthy to wear masks, you increase their risk of infection if they fiddle with their mask, which they probably will, being inexperienced users like myself. Is that increased risk to healthy mask-wearers worth the decreased risk from people who are unwittingly spreading Covid-19? Math doesn't seem to work out, but it does depend hugely on the probabilities involved, which are largely unknown. Right now, though, the number of people with Covid-19 are ridiculously low in comparison to those without, though, so to have any kind of positive effect the increased chance of infection through face-touching would have to be microscopic in comparison to the benefit from limiting infection through coughing, and it doesn't seem like it is. Not wearing a mask doesn't stop people from touching their face though. The limited research we have suggests people touch their face every few minutes without masks. I don't think there's any data to support the persistent and admittedly plausible argument that wearing a mask makes you more likely to touch your nose, mouth, or eyes though. While looking for some I did come across this virologist saying the opposite though. "Wearing a mask can reduce the propensity for people to touch their faces, which is a major source of infection without proper hand hygiene," says Stephen Griffin a virologist at the University of Leeds, UK. www.bbc.com As far as which PPE provides the least benefit and the most false sense of security, I'd give that award to gloves. Wearing gloves also offers little protection as they can still pick up the virus and spread the contamination. And even with the most diligent of people might struggle to keep from touching their faces completely. Instead the World Health Organization recommends frequent hand washing... | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18333 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
On April 03 2020 08:15 Acrofales wrote: I really like wearing gloves as I hate touching my face with gloves. As has long been recommended for healthy people dealing with potentially infected people (like people that have to work around a public not wearing masks, particularly medical professionals) properly wearing masks helps and there's no studies to show otherwise. Really workers with interactions between people like cashiers should be wearing masks, and eye protection to prevent them from touching the parts of their face that spread infection from them (in case they have to work while sick or end up homeless) and if they are like you, gloves as a way to reduce their impetus to touch their face and chance of catching it from others. That's what I'm understanding from the available information. Now, with these all in limited supply people have to choose between working unprotected, not working and not paying bills, or getting proper protection for themselves at the expense of medical professionals that have been ill equipped by their leadership in private institutions and the government in public ones. And if you're in Laredo, Texas you better wear a mask (scarfs work legally) or get fined. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On April 03 2020 03:39 GreenHorizons wrote: The acceptance of social distancing is certainly helpful, as is collective social perspectives, and reverence for elders. Masks aren't a silver bullet, just a common sense measure the west will increasingly adapt as it realizes it should have a long time ago (and had stockpiles ready for both medical professionals and the gen pop, but was too busy at every level and in media talking trash about how other countries were handling it to realize how far behind they were by no one's fault but our own). There's a bunch of reasons masks are commons in the east and not the west. And all of them are sanitary. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
On April 03 2020 18:16 Erasme wrote: There's a bunch of reasons masks are commons in the east and not the west. And all of them are sanitary. I'm sure some people are very uncomfortable about the idea of poor people commonly wearing masks in public too. I can't even typically go into many gas stations with my hood on, let alone masked. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
The order will make it mandatory for businesses that interact with the public to use cloth face coverings for their employees starting Saturday; that includes grocery stores, pharmacy's and gas stations, according to Supervisor Nathan Fletcher. Businesses that remain open will also be mandated to set physical distancing and hygiene procedures and post the guidance at the entrance to their business by Tuesday. The general public will not be required to wear facial coverings but will be urged to do so when out in public, according to the new order. Medical-grade masks should not be used. The strict regulations already limited gatherings to 10 people or less, closed dine-in restaurants and ended in-person classes for all public and private educational institutions On Thursday, there were 966 positive cases and 16 deaths reported in San Diego County. www.nbcsandiego.com | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Hopefully they follow through on everyone who used direct deposit for their taxes getting it that way, though (even though that's part of why corporations are sure to get it much faster). | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
He does these daily briefings that are more informative than Trump's much longer ones imo. He talks about it ~10 minutes from the start | ||
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farvacola
United States18864 Posts
On April 04 2020 00:14 TheTenthDoc wrote: As much as I hate how slow the individual stimulus rollout will be, there are a few good reasons why it will take ages. I still can't decide where I personally stand on checks (which hugely penalize those who would have to open accounts just to cash them and have far more logistical hurdles) vs gift cards (which can be easily stolen) vs something else entirely. The US does not have a good infrastructure for providing money directly to adults. Solving the problem for those without stable addresses is another huge hurdle, and I'm not sure if they'll even bother tackling that one. Hopefully they follow through on everyone who used direct deposit for their taxes getting it that way, though (even though that's part of why corporations are sure to get it much faster). Folks who use direct deposit for tax refunds should get their stimulus in under two weeks, per my inside sources  | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On April 04 2020 00:21 farvacola wrote: Folks who use direct deposit for tax refunds should get their stimulus in under two weeks, per my inside sources This correct from my reading. It is expected to take as long as 6 months to get checks though. | ||
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