EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2129
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44584 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15712 Posts
On February 20 2020 13:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Does anyone know where I can find a VOD of this debate? Likely NBC News Youtube eventually. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12262 Posts
On February 20 2020 12:36 Wegandi wrote: It's funny hearing Bernie talk about the rich buying votes when all his plans are essentially, here's some free shit, $$$, vote for me. There's no pretense this debate is anything else. Every candidate is in a game of one upmanship to who can use the Government to give away the most shit. It's hilarious how transparent it is. There's almost no substantive and factual "talk" going on. We also have Shapiro's Twitter btw, this take was bad there and it is bad here. To have a popular agenda is not the same as to flood the country with billions of ads and buy an election, because... simply, that isn't how words work? | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
On February 20 2020 12:36 Wegandi wrote: You're not supposed to notice that, or his three houses, or his $1.2 million spent on luxury private jets in one quarter.It's funny hearing Bernie talk about the rich buying votes when all his plans are essentially, here's some free shit, $$$, vote for me. There's no pretense this debate is anything else. Every candidate is in a game of one upmanship to who can use the Government to give away the most shit. It's hilarious how transparent it is. There's almost no substantive and factual "talk" going on. "If we don't act incredibly boldly in the next six, seven years, there will be irreparable damage done. Not just to Nevada, not just to Vermont or Massachusetts, but to the entire world." "The scope of the challenge ahead of us shares similarities with the crisis faced by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1940s... Bernie will lead our country to enact the Green New Deal and bring the world together to defeat the existential threat of climate change." He should make changes in his own life before preaching to others. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25621 Posts
On February 20 2020 14:26 Xxio wrote: You're not supposed to notice that, or his three houses, or his $1.2 million spent on luxury private jets in one quarter. "If we don't act incredibly boldly in the next six, seven years, there will be irreparable damage done. Not just to Nevada, not just to Vermont or Massachusetts, but to the entire world." "The scope of the challenge ahead of us shares similarities with the crisis faced by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1940s... Bernie will lead our country to enact the Green New Deal and bring the world together to defeat the existential threat of climate change." He should make changes in his own life before preaching to others. The problems are systemic in nature, who gets more accomplished, wealthy President Bernie o pauper non-President Bernie? Come on man does he have to live in a hut? | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15712 Posts
On February 20 2020 14:26 Xxio wrote: You're not supposed to notice that, or his three houses, or his $1.2 million spent on luxury private jets in one quarter. "If we don't act incredibly boldly in the next six, seven years, there will be irreparable damage done. Not just to Nevada, not just to Vermont or Massachusetts, but to the entire world." "The scope of the challenge ahead of us shares similarities with the crisis faced by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1940s... Bernie will lead our country to enact the Green New Deal and bring the world together to defeat the existential threat of climate change." He should make changes in his own life before preaching to others. Comparing a millionaire to a billionaire is silly. If you're comparing the wealth of the .1% to Bernie, you're desperate. Billionaires horde a grotesque amount of wealth that could deeply benefit the country. Distracting by saying Bernie is a millionaire is an extremely lazy rebuttal. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23293 Posts
On February 20 2020 12:49 TentativePanda wrote: That last question was terribly ominous. The DNC is ready to not vote with public opinion You have no idea how many times I've been told that wouldn't happen only for every candidate (other than Bernie) to outright confirm they will vote against the plurality of delegates if they think they can get away with it (which is different than actually being able to get away with it). On February 20 2020 14:43 Mohdoo wrote: Comparing a millionaire to a billionaire is silly. If you're comparing the wealth of the .1% to Bernie, you're desperate. Billionaires horde a grotesque amount of wealth that could deeply benefit the country. Distracting by saying Bernie is a millionaire is an extremely lazy rebuttal. Someone did the scale math and it's like comparing someone worth $250 to someone worth $6,000,000 and telling the guy with $250 to share more first. I think you're being kind calling it silly and lazy  . | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25621 Posts
On February 20 2020 13:16 Wegandi wrote: I would address your general point, but you didn't rebut my point so going on a tangent with you serves little purpose; suffice to say though the current mostly Government-dictated healthcare "market" is a mess, not because there's too much market involved, but the surprising lack of one. As for your second paragraph do you ever stop for a moment with that last sentence and analyze the definition of a Government? Even in the distorted upside down healthcare "market" you can still enter it somewhat, but when Government takes something over, that's it, that's the point of a Government being THE monopoly institution. My point is, doesn't the cognitive dissonance ever ring a little? Where’s the cognitive dissonance? If anything it’s framing the current system’s problems as being due to mostly to the government’s involvement and ignoring the considerably lower costs in countries where the government is the primary provider and saying that the lack of the market is the problem. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Yes, it's true that he's better off than a good number of his supporters, but it's quite a flimsy argument to try to spin that into hypocrisy. Pretty pitiful that that's the best Boomberg & friends could come up with, honestly. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On February 20 2020 15:01 LegalLord wrote: Honestly, I have a hard time understanding why anyone really thinks that Bernie's "fortune" - which is apparently as small a number as $2.5 million - is even really worth mentioning. That's not even close to being wealthy, that's just comfortably well-off after a five-decade career. On par with any number of people with a decent job and reasonably sound investment decisions. And the job of Senator certainly pays well enough to qualify as "decent job." Yes, it's true that he's better off than a good number of his supporters, but it's quite a flimsy argument to try to spin that into hypocrisy. Pretty pitiful that that's the best Boomberg & friends could come up with, honestly. Yeah, it's honestly a stupid argument. You can get to where Sanders is with a job that pays 3x minimum wage over 50 years. You can get to where Bloomberg is with a job that pays something like 10000x minimum wage over 50 years. Sanders is closer in orders of magnitude to a teenager who has cheap clothes and an old donated phone(say $250 total assets) than Bloomberg. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12262 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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brian
United States9625 Posts
On February 20 2020 14:26 Xxio wrote: You're not supposed to notice that, or his three houses, or his $1.2 million spent on luxury private jets in one quarter. "If we don't act incredibly boldly in the next six, seven years, there will be irreparable damage done. Not just to Nevada, not just to Vermont or Massachusetts, but to the entire world." "The scope of the challenge ahead of us shares similarities with the crisis faced by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1940s... Bernie will lead our country to enact the Green New Deal and bring the world together to defeat the existential threat of climate change." He should make changes in his own life before preaching to others. this is a poorly considered take. people couldn’t make solar power happen without first using gas and coal to get there. that’s just not how change happens. imagine being the guy telling musk he should stop driving to work or flying to investor meetings if he’s so preachy about electric cars and helicopters being the future 10 years ago. politicians are nearly required to have at least two homes. and the idea that they have to travel? blasphemous 🙄. others have already said enough on the pittance that is millions of dollars in the face of billions. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
His "wealth" is obviously not an issue to anyone who thinks about it for ten seconds, but there is a large chunk of the electorate that will not think about it for ten seconds. The optics are a little shaky. There will be blue-collar workers all over the country who will hear that a millionaire complaining about millionaires is planning to raise their taxes while remaining a millionaire. Trump will push this button as hard as he can, and Sanders needs to have an answer that will fly with those voters. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23293 Posts
On February 20 2020 20:40 Belisarius wrote: Bernie isn't a social democrat, he's a democratic socialist. It sounds like nitpicking but the differences are significant and it's important to be precise. His "wealth" is obviously not an issue to anyone who thinks about it for ten seconds, but there is a large chunk of the electorate that will not think about it for ten seconds. The optics are a little shaky. There will be blue-collar workers all over the country who will hear that a millionaire complaining about millionaires is planning to raise their taxes while remaining a millionaire. Trump will push this button as hard as he can, and Sanders needs to have an answer that will fly with those voters. The main distinguishing feature is whether their reforms are meant to attempt to make capitalism more equitable or to undermine/replace capitalism as an economic system. Bernie's policies walk that line while Warrens are firmly in the "save capitalism" camp. I'd say they represent most of the range of "social democrats", but neither are democratic socialists (maybe fair to say Bernie is the right flank of democratic socialists though). | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On February 20 2020 20:40 Belisarius wrote: Bernie isn't a social democrat, he's a democratic socialist. It sounds like nitpicking but the differences are significant and it's important to be precise. His "wealth" is obviously not an issue to anyone who thinks about it for ten seconds, but there is a large chunk of the electorate that will not think about it for ten seconds. The optics are a little shaky. There will be blue-collar workers all over the country who will hear that a millionaire complaining about millionaires is planning to raise their taxes while remaining a millionaire. Trump will push this button as hard as he can, and Sanders needs to have an answer that will fly with those voters. He's a millionaire complaining about billionaires. Using Forbes numbers, Bernie is worth 2.5 million. Bloomberg earned 8.7 billion last year. Bloomberg will earn Bernie's 50+year career life's savings in less than 3 hours. And Trump is literally fighting in the supreme court to keep his tax returns hidden. I doubt these two have any angle here. | ||
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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35159 Posts
On February 20 2020 21:43 farvacola wrote: I thought the debate went well for Sanders and Warren, appropriately awful for Bloomberg, and meh/middling for everyone else. Not a surprising result. I felt Pete looked desperate honestly. On the moderate end Bloomy got boomed and Biden was already one foot out the door. I don't think he was happy at all with Klob's NH showing after only barely eeking out an advantage over Bernie in Iowa and is trying to clear his side of the table... but instead came off like a bit of a tool. | ||
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