|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On February 12 2020 02:20 farvacola wrote:Just be careful about how you present that you’re feeling the Bern, lest your “date” get the wrong idea 
"I've got the bern and nothing seems to get rid of it. If anything, I'm Berning a lot harder than I used to."
On February 12 2020 02:06 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 01:26 Mohdoo wrote:On February 12 2020 00:31 Logo wrote:On February 11 2020 23:54 Mohdoo wrote:On February 11 2020 21:56 farvacola wrote:
CNN is running articles that are really pushing on the "this is the end of the importance of Iowa/NH" angle today, so prepare for a Sanders victory!
Also, Trump's budget is fucking awful and the Republican chair of the Senate Budget Committee won't even hold a hearing on it. This is great news because it also means the media is sticking with Biden. The longer they don't understand why Biden has no future, the longer they'll wait to put their full force behind buttigieg. I see buttigieg as the only real threat to Bernie. I think the real/biggest threat to Bernie is a brokered convention. Buttigieg has a ton of skeletons in his closet (like the recently detailed photo-op military service he did), Bloomberg is basically a republican who's said/done pretty damning things in the past, and Biden is well Biden. None of them feel capable of pulling together a big coalition, but all of them combined seem big enough to cause a brokered convention. There's a pretty real possibility that Bernie wins every single primary & caucus and doesn't become the nominee. I can't imagine a world where the DNC chooses anyone other than who has the most delegates. Despite everything I've said in the past, I would not vote in 2020 if the DNC "actually" robbed Bernie. Depends on the coalitions that form. If Bernie has 25% of the delegates, Buttigieg 20, Biden 16, Bloomberg 15, Warren 15 and Klobuchar 9, for instance, then there's a fairly clear neoliberal coalition, despite Bernie having the plurality. Why do you think Biden and Klobuchar wouldn't throw their support behind Buttigieg? And then even with Warren's support, Bloomberg and the DNC get to act as kingmaker. And I don't have much doubt who they'd choose. A brokered convention is almost certainly bad for Bernie. He needs to win big enough to avoid it.
If that happens, they lose my vote. I would quickly change my party affiliation.
|
Northern Ireland23839 Posts
It’s better to Bern brightly than fade away after al.
|
haven't been following the US primaries too closely up until now but if Bernie wins this I guess the world will get four more years of Trump. Banning fracking, completely eliminating private insurance, he's the real-world version of the strawman republicans have built up. With a good economy, Trump only needs to run attack ads on this stuff and the entire middle class is going to say nope thanks we'll take Trump. Bloomberg looks pretty competitive but it looks unlikely that he can win the primary.
|
|
|
On February 12 2020 04:21 Nyxisto wrote:
haven't been following the US primaries too closely up until now but if Bernie wins this I guess the world will get four more years of Trump. Banning fracking, completely eliminating private insurance, he's the real-world version of the strawman republicans have built up. With a good economy, Trump only needs to run attack ads on this stuff and the entire middle class is going to say nope thanks we'll take Trump. Bloomberg looks pretty competitive but it looks unlikely that he can win the primary.
I remember when Trump said "Everyone is going to get healthcare, and the government is going to pay for it" during his campaign, and he won.
|
On February 12 2020 04:34 JimmiC wrote:
Does anyone really like private insurance in the USA? The US gov spends almost as much on healthcare per person as ours in Canada does and citizens spend double when you account for the cost of insurance. Seems like a rip off for everyone but the insurance companies.
I know lots of people who enjoy suffering crippling illnesses and being charged tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for it, even if doctors are unable to do anything to help. I don't know what you're talking about.
|
On February 12 2020 04:21 Nyxisto wrote:
haven't been following the US primaries too closely up until now but if Bernie wins this I guess the world will get four more years of Trump. Banning fracking, completely eliminating private insurance, he's the real-world version of the strawman republicans have built up. With a good economy, Trump only needs to run attack ads on this stuff and the entire middle class is going to say nope thanks we'll take Trump. Bloomberg looks pretty competitive but it looks unlikely that he can win the primary.
Take your politics of wistful Golden Mean projection elsewhere, please and thank you.
On February 12 2020 04:34 JimmiC wrote:
Does anyone really like private insurance in the USA? The US gov spends almost as much on healthcare per person as ours in Canada does and citizens spend double when you account for the cost of insurance. Seems like a rip off for everyone but the insurance companies.
The stuff that I’ve seen on US citizens’ attitude towards insurance companies indicates a shit ton of cognitive dissonance on the topic. Folks “like” their private or employer provided insurance because of the security it provides with reference to the status quo alternative, namely a lack of insurance altogether. So when folks are asked whether they like their insurance, their answer is shaded heavily by connotative notions of what a lack of insurance implies.
|
On February 12 2020 04:21 Nyxisto wrote:
haven't been following the US primaries too closely up until now but if Bernie wins this I guess the world will get four more years of Trump. Banning fracking, completely eliminating private insurance, he's the real-world version of the strawman republicans have built up. With a good economy, Trump only needs to run attack ads on this stuff and the entire middle class is going to say nope thanks we'll take Trump. Bloomberg looks pretty competitive but it looks unlikely that he can win the primary.
Bernie beats Trump head to head in nearly every poll and wins on the issues against the other candidates in nearly every poll as well.
|
In the US you don't win an election by winning the national generic average, you win by winning swing states. Hillary polled just as favourably against Trump.
On February 12 2020 04:41 farvacola wrote:
Take your politics of wistful Golden Mean projection elsewhere, please and thank you.
Sorry if the truth hurts. If you run a self-declared socialist in a US election you are out of your mind. You are going to get blasted like Corbyn in the UK and then in the midterms, you're going to drag everyone else down with you. It's nuts, you're going to enable four more years of Trump.
On February 12 2020 04:34 JimmiC wrote:
Does anyone really like private insurance in the USA?
Employer based plans for people in the american middle class are fine, and that's the kind of people you need to win. Healthcare in the US really sucks for the bottom 20% who vote for Democrats anyway. You can provide universal coverage without enabling the Republican narrative of "the socialists are going to nationalise the healthcare system". It's bonkers.
|
On February 12 2020 04:41 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 04:21 Nyxisto wrote:
haven't been following the US primaries too closely up until now but if Bernie wins this I guess the world will get four more years of Trump. Banning fracking, completely eliminating private insurance, he's the real-world version of the strawman republicans have built up. With a good economy, Trump only needs to run attack ads on this stuff and the entire middle class is going to say nope thanks we'll take Trump. Bloomberg looks pretty competitive but it looks unlikely that he can win the primary. Take your politics of wistful Golden Mean projection elsewhere, please and thank you. Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 04:34 JimmiC wrote:
Does anyone really like private insurance in the USA? The US gov spends almost as much on healthcare per person as ours in Canada does and citizens spend double when you account for the cost of insurance. Seems like a rip off for everyone but the insurance companies. The stuff that I’ve seen on US citizens’ attitude towards insurance companies indicates a shit ton of cognitive dissonance on the topic. Folks “like” their private or employer provided insurance because of the security it provides with reference to the status quo alternative, namely a lack of insurance altogether. So when folks are asked whether they like their insurance, their answer is shaded heavily by connotative notions of what a lack of insurance implies.
Most people don't ken to the fact that "do you like your insurance?" is a heavily loaded question. Something more along the line of "do you enjoy the insurance-based model of healthcare?" or, perhaps something as radical as a poll with options, would be much more apt. The status quo re: healthcare gets by much like an abusive partner - by convincing you that there's no other option. It's similarly destructive as well.
|
Corbyn didn't lose because he was a socialist. He lost because he refused to take a stance on Brexit and dealt really badly with accusations of anti-Semitism. Even if the latter accusations were completely bogus, his response to them gave infinite ammunition to BoJo... which is really the world on its head, because BoJo flirts with racism a lot.
He was exceptionally bad at campaigning in this election and got punished for it. Being a socialist had little to do with that.
|
|
|
On February 12 2020 04:54 Nyxisto wrote:In the US you don't win an election by winning the national generic average, you win by winning swing states. Hillary polled just as favourably against Trump. Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 04:41 farvacola wrote:
Take your politics of wistful Golden Mean projection elsewhere, please and thank you.
Sorry if the truth hurts. If you run a self-declared socialist in a US election you are out of your mind. You are going to get blasted like Corbyn in the UK and then in the midterms, you're going to drag everyone else down with you. It's nuts, you're going to enable four more years of Trump. Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 04:34 JimmiC wrote:
Does anyone really like private insurance in the USA? Employer based plans for people in the american middle class are fine, and that's the kind of people you need to win. Healthcare in the US really sucks for the bottom 20% who vote for Democrats anyway. You can provide universal coverage without enabling the Republican narrative of "the socialists are going to nationalise the healthcare system". It's bonkers.
This kind of presumptuous neoliberal nonsense is precisely why Bernie is the man for the job. But yes, I hope the warmth that emanates from your magical ability to predict elections occurring in foreign nations keeps you safe from the winter’s chill.
Remember folks, anyone who talks about elections with reference to some “truth” that they themselves are privy to is making political statements, rather than objective or neutral ones.
On February 12 2020 05:00 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2020 04:41 farvacola wrote:On February 12 2020 04:21 Nyxisto wrote:
haven't been following the US primaries too closely up until now but if Bernie wins this I guess the world will get four more years of Trump. Banning fracking, completely eliminating private insurance, he's the real-world version of the strawman republicans have built up. With a good economy, Trump only needs to run attack ads on this stuff and the entire middle class is going to say nope thanks we'll take Trump. Bloomberg looks pretty competitive but it looks unlikely that he can win the primary. Take your politics of wistful Golden Mean projection elsewhere, please and thank you. On February 12 2020 04:34 JimmiC wrote:
Does anyone really like private insurance in the USA? The US gov spends almost as much on healthcare per person as ours in Canada does and citizens spend double when you account for the cost of insurance. Seems like a rip off for everyone but the insurance companies. The stuff that I’ve seen on US citizens’ attitude towards insurance companies indicates a shit ton of cognitive dissonance on the topic. Folks “like” their private or employer provided insurance because of the security it provides with reference to the status quo alternative, namely a lack of insurance altogether. So when folks are asked whether they like their insurance, their answer is shaded heavily by connotative notions of what a lack of insurance implies. The way you word the question in the Survey probably makes a big difference. Do you like your health insurance? Compared to, Would you rather have the same care as your health service provides without paying extra for it? That being said I think the big hurdle in the states is with all the hospitals and so on being private I don't know how legally you could get to "Canada's system", if that was the one you used to copy. Edit: but you did explain an alternative to me at one point, but I'm not sure how that would compare with what we have from a cost per person perspective.
The private versus public status of providers is of little consequence here given how many federal statutes already govern the administration of both. EMTALA, for example, could be tinkered with by amendment to require that hospitals admit patients who have government single payer insurance, to name one of many iterative examples.
The specifics in terms of short term cost are indeed hard to pin down, but the medium and long term can be convincingly shown to be in the money given how much waste can be easily tied to our current system.
|
No one likes their insurance company. Many people like their doctors. Doctors would continue to exist without insurance companies. We wouldn't need a different batch for Medicare for all. Insurance companies try to pretend they are also your doctor because they only exist to be a middle man profit.
Insurance companies are a net loss to society because money is spent on creating an intermediary. The country as a whole saves money be removing a middle man
|
|
|
On February 12 2020 04:54 Nyxisto wrote:
In the US you don't win an election by winning the national generic average, you win by winning swing states. Hillary polled just as favourably against Trump.
Yup. And guess what? Bernie polls the best among independents and republicans when it comes to the democratic candidates. You know, the people who make or break a democrat winning a swing state.
EDIT: You admitted you haven't even been following the primary. Why are you speaking with such conviction on something you openly admit you haven't been paying attention to? It just makes you look arrogant.
|
I'm pretty glad I live in Canada TBH. Last year I had 2 ER visits, one after a car crash(not my fault) where I smacked my head into something hard(concussion), and then another where I snapped my wrist in half (my fault)
First one probably would've been covered by auto insurance/lawyers in the states, but the second where I decided to get elective surgery to put in a plate and screws and fully realign the bone(it would've healed, but a bit off angle and loss of strength/ROM) would've probably been a 5 figure cost if insurance didn't cover it in the states. Instead I paid something like $20 total for a wrist brace and pain meds, and now get almost full ROM and full strength.
Never had to worry about potentially dipping into savings, or getting a huge medical bill.
|
On February 12 2020 05:06 farvacola wrote:
This kind of presumptuous neoliberal nonsense is precisely why Bernie is the man for the job. But yes, I hope the warmth that emanates from your magical ability to predict elections occurring in foreign nations keeps you safe from the winter’s chill.
It's always a tropical 25 degrees celsius here above the equator but I think an outside perspective might be better than the extremely online far-left internet userbase who thinks the revolution is around the corner. I have just one question, assuming Bernie wins the primary and the gets hammered in the general election, will you actually concede that it might not have been the best idea or is there going to be some other justification? If every online rant about neoliberalism would make left-wing candidates the man for the job I suspect the entire world would be run by democratic socialists.
|
On February 12 2020 05:18 Amui wrote:
I'm pretty glad I live in Canada TBH. Last year I had 2 ER visits, one after a car crash(not my fault) where I smacked my head into something hard(concussion), and then another where I snapped my wrist in half (my fault)
First one probably would've been covered by auto insurance/lawyers in the states, but the second where I decided to get elective surgery to put in a plate and screws and fully realign the bone(it would've healed, but a bit off angle and loss of strength/ROM) would've probably been a 5 figure cost if insurance didn't cover it in the states. Instead I paid something like $20 total for a wrist brace and pain meds, and now get almost full ROM and full strength.
Never had to worry about potentially dipping into savings, or getting a huge medical bill.
You're missing out, friend. I pay hundreds of pre-tax dollars every month, for the privilege of then getting to spend thousands of dollars out of pocket per year, before my insurance maybe covers an expense like that. Wouldn't have it any other way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
