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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2037

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
January 16 2020 23:14 GMT
#40721
On January 17 2020 05:48 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2020 05:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On January 17 2020 05:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
There's a single sentence quoted there, mini-GH, why do you even need to ask what is the propaganda?

Maybe this is a stupid question, but, why "mini"?


I am small and cute

[Citation Needed]

I have you pictured as a physically imposing specimen, using your intimidating physique as a weapon to convert weedy capitalists to your cause.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
January 16 2020 23:16 GMT
#40722
On January 17 2020 05:53 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2020 05:34 Nebuchad wrote:
On January 17 2020 05:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
There's a single sentence quoted there, mini-GH, why do you even need to ask what is the propaganda?


I don't see the connexion between the content of the sentence quoted and the accusation made toward it. So I was hoping that I could be shown where the propaganda is, since I don't see it in the quote. Maybe you can help?

Oh maybe it is that you don't understand the definition of propaganda.

Show nested quote +
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.


So in that post GH was extremely biased, plus was misleading in nature. And he did it like he does most of his post to promote his particular political cause or point of view.

It is pretty clear to everyone who has not been swayed by the propaganda that it is just that.

Unlike, I don’t know everyone else in this thread?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-16 23:22:45
January 16 2020 23:22 GMT
#40723
In other recycling news, at least in this locale electronics are a fucking nightmare.

I volunteer at a place with a certain green ethos. There used to be a company that recycled old electronics.

Currently we don’t have that service. The charity has a green charter about waste. The stuff I have contact with is a lot of old assistive technology for people with disabilities, speech-to-text gear, foot pedals, that kind of thing.

I’ve tried to find a resell market for this antiquated equipment, the speech-to-text stuff is way less accurate than something like Alexa is out of the box. The charity won’t bin it because green ethos, and we can’t get it recycled because nobody locally actually properly recycles electronics, so we have a stock room just chock full of stuff with no contemporary use and no way to ‘ethically’ dispose of it.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 00:16:54
January 16 2020 23:48 GMT
#40724
--- Nuked ---
Xxio
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada5565 Posts
January 17 2020 00:19 GMT
#40725
Antifa joining conservatives to protest against 2nd amendment violating laws in Virginia. "A huge rally against gun control is shaping up to be a bizarre meeting of the minds."
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akwv4k/why-antifa-is-siding-with-thousands-of-pro-gun-conservatives-in-virginia
KTY
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 00:46:27
January 17 2020 00:35 GMT
#40726
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 17 2020 02:47 GMT
#40727
--- Nuked ---
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
January 17 2020 03:00 GMT
#40728
If they can announce a clean outcome from getting missiles shot at, that puts less pressure on Trump to try to get the last word in. The man is a coward and thankfully in this instance that seems to stop the strongman blustering at brinksmanship.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 03:27:32
January 17 2020 03:06 GMT
#40729
On January 17 2020 11:47 JimmiC wrote:
Apparently there were actually 11 soldiers that suffered concussions from the Iran attack. It is strange that they choose to lie about this since they were not life threatening and there was a close to zero percent chance of this not coming out. But I guess this administration is so used to lying with no consequence they figured why not.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/16/politics/service-members-injured-iran-strike/index.html

Maybe they lied about it to Trump too to save lives

Though I'm not sure if you can instantly conclude concussion so it makes sense this wasn't known directly at the day itself but took longer.
Neosteel Enthusiast
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 17 2020 03:31 GMT
#40730
--- Nuked ---
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
January 17 2020 04:13 GMT
#40731
I'm not sure why the heck you guys are speculating, the answer is literally in the article?

Asked about the apparent discrepancy, a Defense official told CNN, "That was the commander's assessment at the time. Symptoms emerged days after the fact, and they were treated out of an abundance of caution."


Symptoms of concussion include ringing ears, headaches/pressure in the head, nausea etc pp. Guess what you gonna feel like if a big ass missile lands relatively close to you - definitively close enough to get caught in the pressure wave? As someone who stood (relatively) close to a 120mm tank cannon when it was firing, that's exactly how it felt.

The difference here is that i had these "symptoms" for a few minutes, maybe half an hour. Hell, more than half the symptoms of concussion can be attributed to "shock" as well, and you can induce the symptoms of concussion by just violently shaking your head for a minute.

Diagnosing a concussion right after a missile blast is basically impossible, because in all that chaos there's no accurate way to distinguish between all the possibilities. I bet you any money that more than 11 soldiers had symptoms - because, again, a few big ass missiles just rained down on them in stone throwing range.

Not everything is a conspiracy, though it seems to be the common "go-to" regardless of what the news is that pops up.
On track to MA1950A.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 04:34:20
January 17 2020 04:26 GMT
#40732
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 05:09:49
January 17 2020 04:32 GMT
#40733
On January 17 2020 13:13 m4ini wrote:
I'm not sure why the heck you guys are speculating, the answer is literally in the article?

Show nested quote +
Asked about the apparent discrepancy, a Defense official told CNN, "That was the commander's assessment at the time. Symptoms emerged days after the fact, and they were treated out of an abundance of caution."


Symptoms of concussion include ringing ears, headaches/pressure in the head, nausea etc pp. Guess what you gonna feel like if a big ass missile lands relatively close to you - definitively close enough to get caught in the pressure wave? As someone who stood (relatively) close to a 120mm tank cannon when it was firing, that's exactly how it felt.

The difference here is that i had these "symptoms" for a few minutes, maybe half an hour. Hell, more than half the symptoms of concussion can be attributed to "shock" as well, and you can induce the symptoms of concussion by just violently shaking your head for a minute.

Diagnosing a concussion right after a missile blast is basically impossible, because in all that chaos there's no accurate way to distinguish between all the possibilities. I bet you any money that more than 11 soldiers had symptoms - because, again, a few big ass missiles just rained down on them in stone throwing range.

Not everything is a conspiracy, though it seems to be the common "go-to" regardless of what the news is that pops up.


People don't read past headlines and any conspiracy theory about Trump has legs because he's such a bizarre character on the world stage.

EDIT: I should add this was reported on days ago. The re-presentation (including 'inaccuracies') by CNN is just click/conspiracy/ragebait for the crowd that appeals to/works on.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 17 2020 04:38 GMT
#40734
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 17 2020 05:25 GMT
#40735
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 06:24:56
January 17 2020 06:12 GMT
#40736
Popular among industry and others are "Carbon offsets". Propublica did some reporting on why they are making things worse.

... the desperate hunger for these carbon credit plans appears to have blinded many of their advocates to the mounting pile of evidence that they haven’t — and won’t — deliver the climate benefit they promise.

I looked at projects going back two decades and spanning the globe and pulled together findings from academic researchers in far-flung forest villages, studies published in obscure journals, foreign government reports and dense technical documents. I enlisted a satellite imagery analysis firm to see how much of the forest remained in a preservation project that started selling credits in 2013. Four years later, only half the project areas were forested.

In case after case, I found that carbon credits hadn’t offset the amount of pollution they were supposed to, or they had brought gains that were quickly reversed or that couldn’t be accurately measured to begin with. Ultimately, the polluters got a guilt-free pass to keep emitting CO₂, but the forest preservation that was supposed to balance the ledger either never came or didn’t last.

“Offsets themselves are doing damage,” said Larry Lohmann, who has spent 20 years studying carbon credits

Almost all of the projects failed to meet a standard required for any true carbon offset called additionality. What it means is that the environmental gains are only real if the solar farms or windmills would never have been built without the credits.


features.propublica.org

Often used to grab "carbon neutral" or more recently "carbon negative" headlines companies have been turning a blind eye to the well documented failure of carbon offset programs. Much like recycling in the US, there are auxiliary benefits, but carbon offsets are essentially another form of wishcycling.

It's long so just a couple more excerpts:

In 2015, a French research center examined 120 projects and found that 37% overlapped with existing protected lands like national parks. Though offsets require an added benefit, the authors concluded REDD was simply layered onto existing conservation plans, reducing it to a “logo to attract financing.”

Then, there are the findings out of Norway, a major exporter of oil and natural gas and the world’s largest supporter of REDD, representing about half of all funding.

Tucked into a little-noticed report published last year by Norway’s Office of the Auditor General was the revelation that the country’s efforts had failed virtually every test


More specifically it's another corrupt arm of industry with some unfortunate scientists/activists shoestringing the best they can out of the scraps they get for their efforts. In effect it's a counterproductive PR stunt with some incidental benefits.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9066 Posts
January 17 2020 06:27 GMT
#40737
On January 17 2020 15:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Popular among industry and others are "Carbon offsets". Propublica did some reporting on why they are making things worse.

Show nested quote +
... the desperate hunger for these carbon credit plans appears to have blinded many of their advocates to the mounting pile of evidence that they haven’t — and won’t — deliver the climate benefit they promise.

I looked at projects going back two decades and spanning the globe and pulled together findings from academic researchers in far-flung forest villages, studies published in obscure journals, foreign government reports and dense technical documents. I enlisted a satellite imagery analysis firm to see how much of the forest remained in a preservation project that started selling credits in 2013. Four years later, only half the project areas were forested.

In case after case, I found that carbon credits hadn’t offset the amount of pollution they were supposed to, or they had brought gains that were quickly reversed or that couldn’t be accurately measured to begin with. Ultimately, the polluters got a guilt-free pass to keep emitting CO₂, but the forest preservation that was supposed to balance the ledger either never came or didn’t last.

“Offsets themselves are doing damage,” said Larry Lohmann, who has spent 20 years studying carbon credits

Almost all of the projects failed to meet a standard required for any true carbon offset called additionality. What it means is that the environmental gains are only real if the solar farms or windmills would never have been built without the credits.


features.propublica.org

Often used to grab "carbon neutral" or more recently "carbon negative" headlines companies have been turning a blind eye to the well documented failure of carbon offset programs. Much like recycling in the US, there are auxiliary benefits, but carbon offsets are essentially another form of wishcycling.

It's long so just a couple more excerpts:

Show nested quote +
In 2015, a French research center examined 120 projects and found that 37% overlapped with existing protected lands like national parks. Though offsets require an added benefit, the authors concluded REDD was simply layered onto existing conservation plans, reducing it to a “logo to attract financing.”

Then, there are the findings out of Norway, a major exporter of oil and natural gas and the world’s largest supporter of REDD, representing about half of all funding.

Tucked into a little-noticed report published last year by Norway’s Office of the Auditor General was the revelation that the country’s efforts had failed virtually every test


More specifically it's another corrupt arm of industry with some unfortunate scientists/activists shoestringing the best they can out of the scraps they get for their efforts. In effect it's a counterproductive PR stunt with some incidental benefits.

Welp, you all heard it here first. There is literally nothing that the US and her companies can do to make life better. It's all just a rouse to increase profits and screw over the world. Great ending to the last few pages. RIP.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 06:34:22
January 17 2020 06:31 GMT
#40738
On January 17 2020 15:27 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2020 15:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Popular among industry and others are "Carbon offsets". Propublica did some reporting on why they are making things worse.

... the desperate hunger for these carbon credit plans appears to have blinded many of their advocates to the mounting pile of evidence that they haven’t — and won’t — deliver the climate benefit they promise.

I looked at projects going back two decades and spanning the globe and pulled together findings from academic researchers in far-flung forest villages, studies published in obscure journals, foreign government reports and dense technical documents. I enlisted a satellite imagery analysis firm to see how much of the forest remained in a preservation project that started selling credits in 2013. Four years later, only half the project areas were forested.

In case after case, I found that carbon credits hadn’t offset the amount of pollution they were supposed to, or they had brought gains that were quickly reversed or that couldn’t be accurately measured to begin with. Ultimately, the polluters got a guilt-free pass to keep emitting CO₂, but the forest preservation that was supposed to balance the ledger either never came or didn’t last.

“Offsets themselves are doing damage,” said Larry Lohmann, who has spent 20 years studying carbon credits

Almost all of the projects failed to meet a standard required for any true carbon offset called additionality. What it means is that the environmental gains are only real if the solar farms or windmills would never have been built without the credits.


features.propublica.org

Often used to grab "carbon neutral" or more recently "carbon negative" headlines companies have been turning a blind eye to the well documented failure of carbon offset programs. Much like recycling in the US, there are auxiliary benefits, but carbon offsets are essentially another form of wishcycling.

It's long so just a couple more excerpts:

In 2015, a French research center examined 120 projects and found that 37% overlapped with existing protected lands like national parks. Though offsets require an added benefit, the authors concluded REDD was simply layered onto existing conservation plans, reducing it to a “logo to attract financing.”

Then, there are the findings out of Norway, a major exporter of oil and natural gas and the world’s largest supporter of REDD, representing about half of all funding.

Tucked into a little-noticed report published last year by Norway’s Office of the Auditor General was the revelation that the country’s efforts had failed virtually every test


More specifically it's another corrupt arm of industry with some unfortunate scientists/activists shoestringing the best they can out of the scraps they get for their efforts. In effect it's a counterproductive PR stunt with some incidental benefits.

Welp, you all heard it here first. There is literally nothing that the US and her companies can do to make life better. It's all just a rouse to increase profits and screw over the world. Great ending to the last few pages. RIP.

There's stuff that can be done. Point is, carbon offsets as they've been used to capture headlines and inflate progress reports for the last couple decades, have been somewhat disastrous.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
BerserkSword
Profile Joined December 2018
United States2123 Posts
January 17 2020 06:54 GMT
#40739
On January 17 2020 15:27 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2020 15:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Popular among industry and others are "Carbon offsets". Propublica did some reporting on why they are making things worse.

... the desperate hunger for these carbon credit plans appears to have blinded many of their advocates to the mounting pile of evidence that they haven’t — and won’t — deliver the climate benefit they promise.

I looked at projects going back two decades and spanning the globe and pulled together findings from academic researchers in far-flung forest villages, studies published in obscure journals, foreign government reports and dense technical documents. I enlisted a satellite imagery analysis firm to see how much of the forest remained in a preservation project that started selling credits in 2013. Four years later, only half the project areas were forested.

In case after case, I found that carbon credits hadn’t offset the amount of pollution they were supposed to, or they had brought gains that were quickly reversed or that couldn’t be accurately measured to begin with. Ultimately, the polluters got a guilt-free pass to keep emitting CO₂, but the forest preservation that was supposed to balance the ledger either never came or didn’t last.

“Offsets themselves are doing damage,” said Larry Lohmann, who has spent 20 years studying carbon credits

Almost all of the projects failed to meet a standard required for any true carbon offset called additionality. What it means is that the environmental gains are only real if the solar farms or windmills would never have been built without the credits.


features.propublica.org

Often used to grab "carbon neutral" or more recently "carbon negative" headlines companies have been turning a blind eye to the well documented failure of carbon offset programs. Much like recycling in the US, there are auxiliary benefits, but carbon offsets are essentially another form of wishcycling.

It's long so just a couple more excerpts:

In 2015, a French research center examined 120 projects and found that 37% overlapped with existing protected lands like national parks. Though offsets require an added benefit, the authors concluded REDD was simply layered onto existing conservation plans, reducing it to a “logo to attract financing.”

Then, there are the findings out of Norway, a major exporter of oil and natural gas and the world’s largest supporter of REDD, representing about half of all funding.

Tucked into a little-noticed report published last year by Norway’s Office of the Auditor General was the revelation that the country’s efforts had failed virtually every test


More specifically it's another corrupt arm of industry with some unfortunate scientists/activists shoestringing the best they can out of the scraps they get for their efforts. In effect it's a counterproductive PR stunt with some incidental benefits.

Welp, you all heard it here first. There is literally nothing that the US and her companies can do to make life better. It's all just a rouse to increase profits and screw over the world. Great ending to the last few pages. RIP.


As much as I disagree with his positions on climate change, that's not what he really said.

Make no mistake - Microsoft is doing this to get its shareholders more money. That is the nature of a business, especially a trillion+ dollar market cap mega corporation like Microsoft. If they did not envision this maneuver fattening the wallets of shareholders, they would not have announced it.

Their intent is not necessarily to screw over the world, unless you can provide evidence that Microsoft is an evil corporation bent on fucking the world over.

He just pointed otu that there is evidence that suggests that these kinds of maneuvers rarely pan out in terms of the enivornmental goal, and that companies put profit above all else (as they should)
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24369 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-17 07:03:11
January 17 2020 07:00 GMT
#40740
On January 17 2020 15:54 BerserkSword wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2020 15:27 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On January 17 2020 15:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Popular among industry and others are "Carbon offsets". Propublica did some reporting on why they are making things worse.

... the desperate hunger for these carbon credit plans appears to have blinded many of their advocates to the mounting pile of evidence that they haven’t — and won’t — deliver the climate benefit they promise.

I looked at projects going back two decades and spanning the globe and pulled together findings from academic researchers in far-flung forest villages, studies published in obscure journals, foreign government reports and dense technical documents. I enlisted a satellite imagery analysis firm to see how much of the forest remained in a preservation project that started selling credits in 2013. Four years later, only half the project areas were forested.

In case after case, I found that carbon credits hadn’t offset the amount of pollution they were supposed to, or they had brought gains that were quickly reversed or that couldn’t be accurately measured to begin with. Ultimately, the polluters got a guilt-free pass to keep emitting CO₂, but the forest preservation that was supposed to balance the ledger either never came or didn’t last.

“Offsets themselves are doing damage,” said Larry Lohmann, who has spent 20 years studying carbon credits

Almost all of the projects failed to meet a standard required for any true carbon offset called additionality. What it means is that the environmental gains are only real if the solar farms or windmills would never have been built without the credits.


features.propublica.org

Often used to grab "carbon neutral" or more recently "carbon negative" headlines companies have been turning a blind eye to the well documented failure of carbon offset programs. Much like recycling in the US, there are auxiliary benefits, but carbon offsets are essentially another form of wishcycling.

It's long so just a couple more excerpts:

In 2015, a French research center examined 120 projects and found that 37% overlapped with existing protected lands like national parks. Though offsets require an added benefit, the authors concluded REDD was simply layered onto existing conservation plans, reducing it to a “logo to attract financing.”

Then, there are the findings out of Norway, a major exporter of oil and natural gas and the world’s largest supporter of REDD, representing about half of all funding.

Tucked into a little-noticed report published last year by Norway’s Office of the Auditor General was the revelation that the country’s efforts had failed virtually every test


More specifically it's another corrupt arm of industry with some unfortunate scientists/activists shoestringing the best they can out of the scraps they get for their efforts. In effect it's a counterproductive PR stunt with some incidental benefits.

Welp, you all heard it here first. There is literally nothing that the US and her companies can do to make life better. It's all just a rouse to increase profits and screw over the world. Great ending to the last few pages. RIP.


As much as I disagree with his positions on climate change, that's not what he really said.

Make no mistake - Microsoft is doing this to get its shareholders more money. That is the nature of a business, especially a trillion+ dollar market cap mega corporation like Microsoft. If they did not envision this maneuver fattening the wallets of shareholders, they would not have announced it.

Their intent is not necessarily to screw over the world, unless you can provide evidence that Microsoft is an evil corporation bent on fucking the world over.

He just pointed otu that there is evidence that suggests that these kinds of maneuvers rarely pan out in terms of the enivornmental goal, and that companies put profit above all else (as they should)


I try to repeatedly stress that I'm a bit lonely among my ilk in that I very rarely attribute any of this shit to malice, I view billionaires for example as people suffering from an addiction brought about primarily by social conditions and systemic issues.

I don't view billionaires or anyone else as some sort of a bogeyman or villain to be slain
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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