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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1903

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

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GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23428 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-21 21:00:53
November 21 2019 20:14 GMT
#38041
On November 22 2019 05:06 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2019 05:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 22 2019 04:48 Mo_tx wrote:
On November 22 2019 04:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 22 2019 04:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
So Netanyahu is being indicted. Does this do anything for US/Israel relations or nah?


Remind us we've got bipartisan support for actively aiding and abetting a corrupt administration carrying out an ethnic cleansing campaign? At least 2, if you count Saudi Arabia's.


I would agree with you
Don't you feel this has been changing recently though? I feel that much more democrats (including some sitting in congress) are critical of US policy toward Israel?
I mean we re still quite far from widespread critical positions on the colonization process, but I has the feeling we were slowly moving in this direction, at least among democrats.


Sorta?

Not sure what I'd be measuring. I certainly think Democrats are more critical of Trump doing the same shitty foreign policy things Obama was though.

Probably because it was all through proper channels and procedures. Whereas trump is just tweeting it out or having some back alley meetings take place.


While I don't necessarily disagree with what I think you're saying, I don't think it's as absolving as many do. I think it speaks to a dangerous reliance on process inoculating people from doing horrific and corrupt things.

Regardless, I was talking about the actively aiding and abetting a corrupt administration/absolute monarchy in their ethnic cleansing campaigns.

EDIT:
On November 22 2019 04:53 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think many of the democrats want to distance themselves from the current more abhorrent foreign policies coming from trump but without distancing themselves from the former abhorrent foreign policies coming out of or supported by democrats.


Yes. That's a big reason why of the countless impeachable offenses Trump's openly committed, this Ukraine thing is what everyone is banking on.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9005 Posts
November 21 2019 21:17 GMT
#38042
I'm not saying it is absolving. Just remarking that people, particularly in regards to the government, can be persuaded something isn't as bad as long as the proper procedures were followed. The whistleblower thing was a big deal because they tried to circumvent it.

The whole aiding and abetting thing is what I was getting at. Does the US start to distance themselves from the hard line Israel supporters and do what's the more humane thing? Or do they keep the status quo because of history? Remains to be seen if the new admin will pivot or stay the course.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23428 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-21 21:42:10
November 21 2019 21:37 GMT
#38043
On November 22 2019 06:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I'm not saying it is absolving. Just remarking that people, particularly in regards to the government, can be persuaded something isn't as bad as long as the proper procedures were followed. The whistleblower thing was a big deal because they tried to circumvent it.

The whole aiding and abetting thing is what I was getting at. Does the US start to distance themselves from the hard line Israel supporters and do what's the more humane thing? Or do they keep the status quo because of history? Remains to be seen if the new admin will pivot or stay the course.


I didn't think you were, but instead commenting on the fact that a lot of Democrats (and Republicans when it suits them) do, so we're good there . The Nuremberg Laws were heavily inspired by Jim Crow, so this concept is deeply ingrained in the US, as is our shocking lack of introspection when it comes to foreign policy. 1924 US immigration policy is also praised in Mein Kampf as another example.

+ Show Spoiler +
(source is Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law the actual book but you can find that stuff online too).


Considering Sanders is supposed to be the radical leftist and he's being celebrated for simply mentioning Palestinians deserve human rights I'd say we're staying the course unless there's a Vietnam era type movement (except bigger).

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
November 22 2019 03:31 GMT
#38044
On November 22 2019 06:37 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2019 06:17 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I'm not saying it is absolving. Just remarking that people, particularly in regards to the government, can be persuaded something isn't as bad as long as the proper procedures were followed. The whistleblower thing was a big deal because they tried to circumvent it.

The whole aiding and abetting thing is what I was getting at. Does the US start to distance themselves from the hard line Israel supporters and do what's the more humane thing? Or do they keep the status quo because of history? Remains to be seen if the new admin will pivot or stay the course.


I didn't think you were, but instead commenting on the fact that a lot of Democrats (and Republicans when it suits them) do, so we're good there . The Nuremberg Laws were heavily inspired by Jim Crow, so this concept is deeply ingrained in the US, as is our shocking lack of introspection when it comes to foreign policy. 1924 US immigration policy is also praised in Mein Kampf as another example.

+ Show Spoiler +
(source is Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law the actual book but you can find that stuff online too).


Considering Sanders is supposed to be the radical leftist and he's being celebrated for simply mentioning Palestinians deserve human rights I'd say we're staying the course unless there's a Vietnam era type movement (except bigger).



I think America's too fundamentally right wing for that now. Religion is deeply rooted in American culture, and overall American Christianity seems to lean right wing, going by how well the Republicans always do with religious voters and the fact that promises to ban abortion is an election winner in multiple states.

At times the US resembles Saudi Arabia more than other Western nations, culturally.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
November 22 2019 16:39 GMT
#38045
Why in the world are democrats not trying to get Giuliani, Pence, Pompeo to testify?
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
November 22 2019 17:07 GMT
#38046
On November 23 2019 01:39 Mohdoo wrote:
Why in the world are democrats not trying to get Giuliani, Pence, Pompeo to testify?


They are? There's not much you can do when you congressional subpoena people and they go 'Nah'

It's not a criminal one, ignoring it just looks bad. If half the country doesn't give a shit, the congress has no power
Something witty
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21916 Posts
November 22 2019 17:20 GMT
#38047
On November 23 2019 01:39 Mohdoo wrote:
Why in the world are democrats not trying to get Giuliani, Pence, Pompeo to testify?
Because the White House is stopping them and to get around the stonewalling would take long drawn out court battles of the finer points of what Congress can or cannot do?

its a battle I think they should fight but on the otherhand there is also a case for "just how much more collaborated evidence do you need".
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-22 20:14:25
November 22 2019 17:38 GMT
#38048
What would them dragging them in handcuffs in to testify add, exactly? Give them more opportunity to spread nonsense conspiracy theories that are demonstrably untrue? Dispel the bizarre fantasy that Democrats are only allowing those that support their case to testify when the "defendant" has ordered his people not to testify even though the Democrats asked them to (hint: it wouldn't)?

It isn't as though any of them will tell the truth, even under oath. At best you'd catch them in a "gotcha!" over evidence, which won't change anyone's mind (either the evil Dems are making them commit process crimes!1!111! or that evidence doesn't actually exist).

Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9712 Posts
November 22 2019 20:13 GMT
#38049
I watched the Hill testimony in full and I gotta say whatever else comes of this impeachment process it was interesting to see who came out of the woodwork to defend the US foreign policy machine from Trump and i'm somewhat glad that that happened.

Fiona Hill being hailed as a heroine in the press is a bit much though, and looks to me like PR move orchestrated in advance.
RIP Meatloaf <3
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1510 Posts
November 22 2019 21:02 GMT
#38050
Would a senate trial change the calculus of getting witness testimony? Right now, people are ignoring House subpoenas. But a trial in the Senate would be presided by the SC Chief Justice. Surely people can't simply ignore it if the subpoenas come from him on behalf of the Senate, can they? What would the process look like there?
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44921 Posts
November 22 2019 23:12 GMT
#38051
On November 23 2019 06:02 jrkirby wrote:
Would a senate trial change the calculus of getting witness testimony? Right now, people are ignoring House subpoenas. But a trial in the Senate would be presided by the SC Chief Justice. Surely people can't simply ignore it if the subpoenas come from him on behalf of the Senate, can they? What would the process look like there?


Wouldn't the Senate need to be the ones pushing for that? Trump can be impeached because the House has a majority of Democrats, but the Senate Republicans won't turn on Trump.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14036 Posts
November 22 2019 23:46 GMT
#38052
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
November 22 2019 23:48 GMT
#38053
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.


Pretty sure thats not true at all.

He can refuse to hold a trail and just go straight to a vote, but he has to act on it
Something witty
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21916 Posts
November 22 2019 23:48 GMT
#38054
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.
Republicans would LOVE to broadcast Trump being cleared to the entire nation, no matter how BS it is.

Its the biggest victory they can hope for.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23428 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-22 23:53:54
November 22 2019 23:52 GMT
#38055
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.

Latest impeachment polling suggests McConnell won't have to try. 538 has opposing impeachment just .1% behind support (both under 50%) in the average with it having actually flipped to a plurality against impeachment in the latest Emerson poll
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11595 Posts
November 23 2019 00:02 GMT
#38056
On November 23 2019 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.

Latest impeachment polling suggests McConnell won't have to try. 538 has opposing impeachment just .1% behind support (both under 50%) in the average with it having actually flipped to a plurality against impeachment in the latest Emerson poll


I really don't understand the US. Why are any people happy with Trump as a president? He is immoral, corrupt, incompetent and utterly unsympathic. He should clearly never have gotten elected, and he demonstrates this every day.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23428 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-23 00:17:17
November 23 2019 00:14 GMT
#38057
On November 23 2019 09:02 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2019 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.

Latest impeachment polling suggests McConnell won't have to try. 538 has opposing impeachment just .1% behind support (both under 50%) in the average with it having actually flipped to a plurality against impeachment in the latest Emerson poll


I really don't understand the US. Why are any people happy with Trump as a president? He is immoral, corrupt, incompetent and utterly unsympathic. He should clearly never have gotten elected, and he demonstrates this every day.


That describes every president (Carter the least of the living, but still) Trump doesn't try to pretend otherwise and like the Carlin clip I've linked before we like our liars to be honest about it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9005 Posts
November 23 2019 01:05 GMT
#38058
On November 23 2019 09:14 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2019 09:02 Simberto wrote:
On November 23 2019 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.

Latest impeachment polling suggests McConnell won't have to try. 538 has opposing impeachment just .1% behind support (both under 50%) in the average with it having actually flipped to a plurality against impeachment in the latest Emerson poll


I really don't understand the US. Why are any people happy with Trump as a president? He is immoral, corrupt, incompetent and utterly unsympathic. He should clearly never have gotten elected, and he demonstrates this every day.


That describes every president (Carter the least of the living, but still) Trump doesn't try to pretend otherwise and like the Carlin clip I've linked before we like our liars to be honest about it.

That is every person who has ever lived that was in a position of power for the most part. Your snipes are tiring.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-23 01:12:28
November 23 2019 01:10 GMT
#38059
On November 23 2019 08:48 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.
Republicans would LOVE to broadcast Trump being cleared to the entire nation, no matter how BS it is.

Its the biggest victory they can hope for.

or their biggest loss
It's not too far fetched to imagine trump tumbling during his questionning. He can talk shit to the masses, its harder when there are people who are listening and recording everything you say, and turning it against you.
Kinda like prince andrew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23428 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-23 01:52:02
November 23 2019 01:51 GMT
#38060
On November 23 2019 10:05 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2019 09:14 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 23 2019 09:02 Simberto wrote:
On November 23 2019 08:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 23 2019 08:46 Sermokala wrote:
Impeachment won't even show up in the senate. McConnell can just refuse to receive the articles of impeachment and end it there.

Latest impeachment polling suggests McConnell won't have to try. 538 has opposing impeachment just .1% behind support (both under 50%) in the average with it having actually flipped to a plurality against impeachment in the latest Emerson poll


I really don't understand the US. Why are any people happy with Trump as a president? He is immoral, corrupt, incompetent and utterly unsympathic. He should clearly never have gotten elected, and he demonstrates this every day.


That describes every president (Carter the least of the living, but still) Trump doesn't try to pretend otherwise and like the Carlin clip I've linked before we like our liars to be honest about it.

That is every person who has ever lived that was in a position of power for the most part. Your snipes are tiring.


It's almost like the problem isn't the individuals, but the systems. That focusing on Trump/Republicans misses the forest for the trees.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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