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On October 11 2019 19:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 18:45 Gorsameth wrote:On October 11 2019 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On October 11 2019 06:29 Lmui wrote:
The US is shitting away any chance of co-operation in the middle east. It's caused shitshows in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. Having the Kurds assist is the most politically sensible decision. It involves a group which is trusted by the local populace, shares the same values as the foreign power (US), and a common goal (fight ISIS). It's the cheapest investment to achieve power in the region.If this doesn't get reversed in the next few days, I'd expect the GOP to fully break with Trump on Syria.
It was just a braindead decision by Trump I still firmly believe that if Democrats win in 2020, the world will be like: "So, that was fucked, but if you make systematic changes to make your system less volatile, we're cool", everyone will move on and clean up the pieces. Some damage can't be undone, but Trump is so unique that I don't think it is difficult for people to understand Warren/Biden/Sanders would immediately cancel tariffs and stuff like that. Trump is weird. No one else is. If we are able to show the world we learned from our mistakes, I really think we'll be welcomed back. Remember this is pretty much what happened after Bush. The world collectively went 'ok, this was just an anomaly, America is back to being our reliable ally and friend'. Only for 8 years later to go even more bat shit crazy. I'm not so sure you will find the world as forgiving the 2nd time. Sure publicly they will smile and pat the US on the back in front of the camera's but behind closed doors I think the cat is out of the bag and the world known America can go crazy every 4/8 years at random and cannot be relied upon beyond the current President. i think the world would be more forgiving, because the entire world wants to believe that america has their shit together again. every country in the world is literally rooting for it and if they see it happen theyll probably try their hardest to keep that as the status quo. if america votes in another retard down the line the rest of the world would probably lose faith again, but honestly i dont think most people lose faith in the american government, because eventually things will get better again. its the american people that become a mockery and become targets of insults, memes, laughter etc for letting another idiot in again. i mean americans are "half jokingly" considered to be the dumbest people in the world already. when a meme like that follows an entire countrys population it isnt for no reason
If it looked that way sure, but it sure doesn't look that way from the outside. It looks like the US bipolar disorder is getting worse and worse.
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Northern Ireland26341 Posts
I’m curious as to when the tide will turn against Trump within his own party, aligned media and from other state apparatus.
I’ve long thought that the GOP are motivated by self-preservation and waiting to see how the political winds blow rather than supporting the man for any particular reason. They must have a red line drawn somewhere, and we are seeing a bit more criticism from those quarters than previously over the withdrawal from Syria.
Trump’s particular combination of impulsivity and arrogance and a complete inability to take criticism of any kind are an absolute toxic soup when it comes to foreign policy decisions that are longer-term in their potential impact than domestic policy, plus subject to fewer checks and balances.
Despite it being something I disagree with personally, so there’s a degree of bias of course, the more concerning issue I have is that, basically Trump decided to do it and just went out and did it, to crudely simplify.
The man seems to get more impulsive the longer he’s in office, what’s coming next? There’s almost no lead up or warning, or joined-up strategy to predict future actions, stuff just happens when the man fancies it.
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Because very few people are left to keep him in check. He's a rich narcissist. He's right, we're wrong. It's his way or the highway. You don't tell the rich what to do, they force you to do what they say. That's the way it goes. No couple that with damn near limitless power? We're close people.
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Northern Ireland26341 Posts
On October 11 2019 21:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Because very few people are left to keep him in check. He's a rich narcissist. He's right, we're wrong. It's his way or the highway. You don't tell the rich what to do, they force you to do what they say. That's the way it goes. No couple that with damn near limitless power? We're close people.
Well there are they just have chosen not to do it yet to any meaningful degree.
Stirring the pot to appease his base for a ridiculous ‘trade war’ with China as if it’ll bring back lost manufacturing jobs is a case in point. There are plenty of other rich folks who have direct stakes in that market in one way or another.
Trump is a rich guy himself sure, but he’s pushing policies that are beneficial to him politically and aren’t necessarily helpful to actually address the problems, nor do they particularly benefit the rich either.
He’s a different beast in that sense, he does things purely for his own ego, at least there’s usually a depressingly predictable pattern with other politicians that they look out for their own and big business etc.
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On October 11 2019 22:04 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 21:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Because very few people are left to keep him in check. He's a rich narcissist. He's right, we're wrong. It's his way or the highway. You don't tell the rich what to do, they force you to do what they say. That's the way it goes. No couple that with damn near limitless power? We're close people. Well there are they just have chosen not to do it yet to any meaningful degree. Stirring the pot to appease his base for a ridiculous ‘trade war’ with China as if it’ll bring back lost manufacturing jobs is a case in point. There are plenty of other rich folks who have direct stakes in that market in one way or another. Trump is a rich guy himself sure, but he’s pushing policies that are beneficial to him politically and aren’t necessarily helpful to actually address the problems, nor do they particularly benefit the rich either. He’s a different beast in that sense, he does things purely for his own ego, at least there’s usually a depressingly predictable pattern with other politicians that they look out for their own and big business etc. The GOP/Trump gave them a massive tax cut so the rich are happy. Any market volatility is something they can either capitalise on or absorb and wait out.
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On October 11 2019 19:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 18:45 Gorsameth wrote:On October 11 2019 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On October 11 2019 06:29 Lmui wrote:
The US is shitting away any chance of co-operation in the middle east. It's caused shitshows in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. Having the Kurds assist is the most politically sensible decision. It involves a group which is trusted by the local populace, shares the same values as the foreign power (US), and a common goal (fight ISIS). It's the cheapest investment to achieve power in the region.If this doesn't get reversed in the next few days, I'd expect the GOP to fully break with Trump on Syria.
It was just a braindead decision by Trump I still firmly believe that if Democrats win in 2020, the world will be like: "So, that was fucked, but if you make systematic changes to make your system less volatile, we're cool", everyone will move on and clean up the pieces. Some damage can't be undone, but Trump is so unique that I don't think it is difficult for people to understand Warren/Biden/Sanders would immediately cancel tariffs and stuff like that. Trump is weird. No one else is. If we are able to show the world we learned from our mistakes, I really think we'll be welcomed back. Remember this is pretty much what happened after Bush. The world collectively went 'ok, this was just an anomaly, America is back to being our reliable ally and friend'. Only for 8 years later to go even more bat shit crazy. I'm not so sure you will find the world as forgiving the 2nd time. Sure publicly they will smile and pat the US on the back in front of the camera's but behind closed doors I think the cat is out of the bag and the world known America can go crazy every 4/8 years at random and cannot be relied upon beyond the current President. i think the world would be more forgiving, because the entire world wants to believe that america has their shit together again. every country in the world is literally rooting for it and if they see it happen theyll probably try their hardest to keep that as the status quo. if america votes in another retard down the line the rest of the world would probably lose faith again, but honestly i dont think most people lose faith in the american government, because eventually things will get better again. its the american people that become a mockery and become targets of insults, memes, laughter etc for letting another idiot in again. i mean americans are "half jokingly" considered to be the dumbest people in the world already. when a meme like that follows an entire countrys population it isnt for no reason
Not half-jokingly.
I will only trust the US again if Trump is beaten by a huge margin, more than 60%. Which won't happen. So that means I have to root in my head that nearly 50% of American voters either don't care about the world and are selfish bastards, or are complete idiots willing to elect anybody that lies convincingly enough (cause it doesn't get worse than a billionaire born millionaire telling to poor people he gets them). Thus I cannot trust it won't happen again, so I cannot trust the promises of the US long term.
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On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo.
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On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo.
I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though
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On October 11 2019 23:37 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo. I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though
Not a typo as he said "has resigned as secretary of state". Pompeo is the secretary of state.
But yes, the advisor resigned.
And yovanovitch is in Congress to testify, as will be sondland next week.
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On October 11 2019 22:35 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 19:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:On October 11 2019 18:45 Gorsameth wrote:On October 11 2019 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On October 11 2019 06:29 Lmui wrote:
The US is shitting away any chance of co-operation in the middle east. It's caused shitshows in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. Having the Kurds assist is the most politically sensible decision. It involves a group which is trusted by the local populace, shares the same values as the foreign power (US), and a common goal (fight ISIS). It's the cheapest investment to achieve power in the region.If this doesn't get reversed in the next few days, I'd expect the GOP to fully break with Trump on Syria.
It was just a braindead decision by Trump I still firmly believe that if Democrats win in 2020, the world will be like: "So, that was fucked, but if you make systematic changes to make your system less volatile, we're cool", everyone will move on and clean up the pieces. Some damage can't be undone, but Trump is so unique that I don't think it is difficult for people to understand Warren/Biden/Sanders would immediately cancel tariffs and stuff like that. Trump is weird. No one else is. If we are able to show the world we learned from our mistakes, I really think we'll be welcomed back. Remember this is pretty much what happened after Bush. The world collectively went 'ok, this was just an anomaly, America is back to being our reliable ally and friend'. Only for 8 years later to go even more bat shit crazy. I'm not so sure you will find the world as forgiving the 2nd time. Sure publicly they will smile and pat the US on the back in front of the camera's but behind closed doors I think the cat is out of the bag and the world known America can go crazy every 4/8 years at random and cannot be relied upon beyond the current President. i think the world would be more forgiving, because the entire world wants to believe that america has their shit together again. every country in the world is literally rooting for it and if they see it happen theyll probably try their hardest to keep that as the status quo. if america votes in another retard down the line the rest of the world would probably lose faith again, but honestly i dont think most people lose faith in the american government, because eventually things will get better again. its the american people that become a mockery and become targets of insults, memes, laughter etc for letting another idiot in again. i mean americans are "half jokingly" considered to be the dumbest people in the world already. when a meme like that follows an entire countrys population it isnt for no reason Not half-jokingly. I will only trust the US again if Trump is beaten by a huge margin, more than 60%. Which won't happen. So that means I have to root in my head that nearly 50% of American voters either don't care about the world and are selfish bastards, or are complete idiots willing to elect anybody that lies convincingly enough (cause it doesn't get worse than a billionaire born millionaire telling to poor people he gets them). Thus I cannot trust it won't happen again, so I cannot trust the promises of the US long term.
this seems a bit of an over reaction, bearing in mind the man lost the popular vote. he only took 46% in 2016. 40% doesn’t seem even remotely unrealistic.
which ignores entirely motivations for voting trump don’t need to boil down to stupidity, the reasons certainly aren’t binary. he was the only republican nominee. you’ve destroyed nuance in an area that probably calls for it, and seem to not have the proper perspective of reality in framing it anyway.
if nothing changed in the 2020 election, then i could understand the sentiment.
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Soon we will find out the true reason behind Trump wanting to buy Greenland  , he probably planned ahead wanting to abandon the sinking ship and get as far away from the US as he can when the shitfest begins.
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On October 11 2019 23:49 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 23:37 IyMoon wrote:On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo. I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though Not a typo as he said "has resigned as secretary of state". Pompeo is the secretary of state. But yes, the advisor resigned. And yovanovitch is in Congress to testify, as will be sondland next week.
The Sondland testimony is a big deal because it seems he is explicitly going against the WH to do so, and his lawyer has basically stated as much in a letter.
The WH stifling all testimony of government staff will only work so long as people listen to them. Their justification for preventing testimony isn't legally strong at all, so now that one person has gone against the WH, I wouldn't be shocked if others follow. It's much like the whole whistleblower thing. Now that one has come forward, it is much more likely that others will too (as we have already seen with the two additional potential whistleblowers).
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On October 12 2019 00:09 Ben... wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 23:49 Nouar wrote:On October 11 2019 23:37 IyMoon wrote:On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo. I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though Not a typo as he said "has resigned as secretary of state". Pompeo is the secretary of state. But yes, the advisor resigned. And yovanovitch is in Congress to testify, as will be sondland next week. The Sondland testimony is a big deal because it seems he is explicitly going against the WH to do so, and his lawyer has basically stated as much in a letter. The WH stifling all testimony of government staff will only work so long as people listen to them. Their justification for preventing testimony isn't legally strong at all, so now that one person has gone against the WH, I wouldn't be shocked if others follow. It's much like the whole whistleblower thing. Now that one has come forward, it is much more likely that others will too (as we have already seen with the two additional potential whistleblowers).
Can someone be punished for not following the WH orders?
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On October 12 2019 00:49 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 00:09 Ben... wrote:On October 11 2019 23:49 Nouar wrote:On October 11 2019 23:37 IyMoon wrote:On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo. I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though Not a typo as he said "has resigned as secretary of state". Pompeo is the secretary of state. But yes, the advisor resigned. And yovanovitch is in Congress to testify, as will be sondland next week. The Sondland testimony is a big deal because it seems he is explicitly going against the WH to do so, and his lawyer has basically stated as much in a letter. The WH stifling all testimony of government staff will only work so long as people listen to them. Their justification for preventing testimony isn't legally strong at all, so now that one person has gone against the WH, I wouldn't be shocked if others follow. It's much like the whole whistleblower thing. Now that one has come forward, it is much more likely that others will too (as we have already seen with the two additional potential whistleblowers). Can someone be punished for not following the WH orders?
I mean they can fire him, it's a REAL bad look but when has trump ever cared about that
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On October 12 2019 00:49 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 00:49 Mohdoo wrote:On October 12 2019 00:09 Ben... wrote:On October 11 2019 23:49 Nouar wrote:On October 11 2019 23:37 IyMoon wrote:On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo. I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though Not a typo as he said "has resigned as secretary of state". Pompeo is the secretary of state. But yes, the advisor resigned. And yovanovitch is in Congress to testify, as will be sondland next week. The Sondland testimony is a big deal because it seems he is explicitly going against the WH to do so, and his lawyer has basically stated as much in a letter. The WH stifling all testimony of government staff will only work so long as people listen to them. Their justification for preventing testimony isn't legally strong at all, so now that one person has gone against the WH, I wouldn't be shocked if others follow. It's much like the whole whistleblower thing. Now that one has come forward, it is much more likely that others will too (as we have already seen with the two additional potential whistleblowers). Can someone be punished for not following the WH orders? I mean they can fire him, it's a REAL bad look but when has trump ever cared about that
Weird, it always seems like the WH is able to block people against their will, as if there is some kinda legal punishment. Is it really just people saying "but I don't wanna be fired"?
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On October 12 2019 01:00 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 00:49 IyMoon wrote:On October 12 2019 00:49 Mohdoo wrote:On October 12 2019 00:09 Ben... wrote:On October 11 2019 23:49 Nouar wrote:On October 11 2019 23:37 IyMoon wrote:On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo. I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though Not a typo as he said "has resigned as secretary of state". Pompeo is the secretary of state. But yes, the advisor resigned. And yovanovitch is in Congress to testify, as will be sondland next week. The Sondland testimony is a big deal because it seems he is explicitly going against the WH to do so, and his lawyer has basically stated as much in a letter. The WH stifling all testimony of government staff will only work so long as people listen to them. Their justification for preventing testimony isn't legally strong at all, so now that one person has gone against the WH, I wouldn't be shocked if others follow. It's much like the whole whistleblower thing. Now that one has come forward, it is much more likely that others will too (as we have already seen with the two additional potential whistleblowers). Can someone be punished for not following the WH orders? I mean they can fire him, it's a REAL bad look but when has trump ever cared about that Weird, it always seems like the WH is able to block people against their will, as if there is some kinda legal punishment. Is it really just people saying "but I don't wanna be fired"?
Ianal but I am pretty sure there are no legal consequences for saying no to your boss. Just job ones
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On October 11 2019 23:53 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 22:35 Nouar wrote:On October 11 2019 19:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:On October 11 2019 18:45 Gorsameth wrote:On October 11 2019 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On October 11 2019 06:29 Lmui wrote:
The US is shitting away any chance of co-operation in the middle east. It's caused shitshows in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. Having the Kurds assist is the most politically sensible decision. It involves a group which is trusted by the local populace, shares the same values as the foreign power (US), and a common goal (fight ISIS). It's the cheapest investment to achieve power in the region.If this doesn't get reversed in the next few days, I'd expect the GOP to fully break with Trump on Syria.
It was just a braindead decision by Trump I still firmly believe that if Democrats win in 2020, the world will be like: "So, that was fucked, but if you make systematic changes to make your system less volatile, we're cool", everyone will move on and clean up the pieces. Some damage can't be undone, but Trump is so unique that I don't think it is difficult for people to understand Warren/Biden/Sanders would immediately cancel tariffs and stuff like that. Trump is weird. No one else is. If we are able to show the world we learned from our mistakes, I really think we'll be welcomed back. Remember this is pretty much what happened after Bush. The world collectively went 'ok, this was just an anomaly, America is back to being our reliable ally and friend'. Only for 8 years later to go even more bat shit crazy. I'm not so sure you will find the world as forgiving the 2nd time. Sure publicly they will smile and pat the US on the back in front of the camera's but behind closed doors I think the cat is out of the bag and the world known America can go crazy every 4/8 years at random and cannot be relied upon beyond the current President. i think the world would be more forgiving, because the entire world wants to believe that america has their shit together again. every country in the world is literally rooting for it and if they see it happen theyll probably try their hardest to keep that as the status quo. if america votes in another retard down the line the rest of the world would probably lose faith again, but honestly i dont think most people lose faith in the american government, because eventually things will get better again. its the american people that become a mockery and become targets of insults, memes, laughter etc for letting another idiot in again. i mean americans are "half jokingly" considered to be the dumbest people in the world already. when a meme like that follows an entire countrys population it isnt for no reason Not half-jokingly. I will only trust the US again if Trump is beaten by a huge margin, more than 60%. Which won't happen. So that means I have to root in my head that nearly 50% of American voters either don't care about the world and are selfish bastards, or are complete idiots willing to elect anybody that lies convincingly enough (cause it doesn't get worse than a billionaire born millionaire telling to poor people he gets them). Thus I cannot trust it won't happen again, so I cannot trust the promises of the US long term. this seems a bit of an over reaction, bearing in mind the man lost the popular vote. he only took 46% in 2016. 40% doesn’t seem even remotely unrealistic. which ignores entirely motivations for voting trump don’t need to boil down to stupidity, the reasons certainly aren’t binary. he was the only republican nominee. you’ve destroyed nuance in an area that probably calls for it, and seem to not have the proper perspective of reality in framing it anyway. if nothing changed in the 2020 election, then i could understand the sentiment.
Yes and no. 60/40 I said, I should have said a 20-point Delta. (As it was 48/46 in 2106). Electoral college is still there, so I need to add a landslide as well in electors, as even if ny or California go 80/20 it has no impact. I meant to say that if it's a close election after everything that had happened, I will still not restore my faith in America.
It was already heavily damaged with Bush's reelection, and nearly at the point of no return for Trump.
You say there was only one nominee, well the first issue is that he was nominated.... He was already a known persona. With thousands of lawsuits against his business practices for decades....
The choice in the us is binary, and not even 10years later, they made an even worse mistake than bush already. What would happen in 10years?
This is just my way of working : I give my full trust immediately, until proven otherwise. After that, it's a steep hill to climb.
If you find me extreme, look at French election results. In 2002, people swallowed their pride and voted for the opposing party to bar the road to Le Pen. 82% to 18. I was already sad the guy reached the 2nd leg... But that result restored a bit of my trust in my country.
In 2017, same issue. 66/34. I still find that to be an awful lot, but it's acceptable.
The USA are so polarised that not enough people can fathom going against their party when this one appoints a bullshit candidate. So I can't trust the people, nor the institutions that allow this less than 50% amount of people to reach that result, repeatedly, as they have already proven they are willing to continue on the path to selfishness and idiocy.
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On October 12 2019 01:04 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 01:00 Mohdoo wrote:On October 12 2019 00:49 IyMoon wrote:On October 12 2019 00:49 Mohdoo wrote:On October 12 2019 00:09 Ben... wrote:On October 11 2019 23:49 Nouar wrote:On October 11 2019 23:37 IyMoon wrote:On October 11 2019 23:28 CatharsisUT wrote:On October 11 2019 23:24 JimmiC wrote:
Pompeo has has resigned as secretary of state.
One of Pompeo's advisors resigned. Not Pompeo. I think he just had a typo where he typed has twice instead of pompeo advisor has resigned. I am just guessing though Not a typo as he said "has resigned as secretary of state". Pompeo is the secretary of state. But yes, the advisor resigned. And yovanovitch is in Congress to testify, as will be sondland next week. The Sondland testimony is a big deal because it seems he is explicitly going against the WH to do so, and his lawyer has basically stated as much in a letter. The WH stifling all testimony of government staff will only work so long as people listen to them. Their justification for preventing testimony isn't legally strong at all, so now that one person has gone against the WH, I wouldn't be shocked if others follow. It's much like the whole whistleblower thing. Now that one has come forward, it is much more likely that others will too (as we have already seen with the two additional potential whistleblowers). Can someone be punished for not following the WH orders? I mean they can fire him, it's a REAL bad look but when has trump ever cared about that Weird, it always seems like the WH is able to block people against their will, as if there is some kinda legal punishment. Is it really just people saying "but I don't wanna be fired"? Ianal but I am pretty sure there are no legal consequences for saying no to your boss. Just job ones
If all you're doing is saying stuff your boss doesn't want you to say, then there are only job consequences. If what you're talking about is classified information, then there are legal ones.
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EPT
