US Politics Mega-thread - Page 184

On May 10 2018 23:26 Mohdoo wrote:

And if someone did bend the knee, their opponent would run on "I won't be bullied by Trump" and win by a landslide.

On May 10 2018 23:13 Acrofales wrote:

As a citizen of a European country, I sincerely hope my government and the EU tells the US to go dig themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, instead of asking us to bail them out. If the US can convince Iran to reopen negotiations, then I'm all for it, but you don't get to fuck us over, and then boss us about. At least, I hope you don't.

On May 10 2018 23:53 KwarK wrote:

Trade with the EU, Russia, and China is no longer a carrot that can be dangled in front of Iran though. They already have that under the terms of the existing deal. And unilateral sanctions have never been effective, Iran sells their oil to another country who buys less oil from Saudi Arabia who in turn sells more oil to the US. In the end these resources are fungible, either you have a sanctions coalition or you don’t have sanctions. It’s hard to imagine a weaker negotiating position than the one the US has given itself. As I said when I heard, they’ve walked away from their own coalition.

On May 10 2018 23:39 Plansix wrote:
People do not understand how big of a problem it is with non-residential lending and how much worse it will be if the HUD regulations stripped. It took years of protests, riots and investigative reporting to force lenders to issue loans to black people. Undoing the regulations is just inviting that same civil strife for the next generation.

On May 11 2018 00:09 Toadesstern wrote:

The EU would have to go out of it's way to assure companies that they will be protected from US sanctions. Otherwise US putting sanctions on Iran does mean the EU also stops trading with Iran because they don't want to be hit by those US sanctions themselves.
I'm not sure our guys have that much of a spine to actually go out of their way and do that. So it's still up in the air imo.

On May 11 2018 00:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:


Not saying to remove them either, but regulations still aren't working.

On May 11 2018 00:09 Toadesstern wrote:

The EU would have to go out of it's way to assure companies that they will be protected from US sanctions. Otherwise US putting sanctions on Iran does mean the EU also stops trading with Iran because they don't want to be hit by those US sanctions themselves.
I'm not sure our guys have that much of a spine to actually go out of their way and do that. So it's still up in the air imo.

On May 11 2018 00:20 Plansix wrote:

This assumes that the US is willing to follow through an issue sanctions against EU companies for doing business with Iran. Congress is only willing to back Trump’s play if there is zero price immediate to pay for it. Some of the US companies we are talking about a big footprint in the US. Banks in the EU have invested in a ton of US mortgages. The instant they have enforce sanctions against Deutsche Bank or some other EU company, they will back down. The EU politicians only need to show slightly more spine than US politicians, which is a very low bar right now.


Enforcement is also critical and has been lacking since the late 1990s. And after 9/11, the FBI was tasked to fight terrorism and no longer cared about white collar crimes. The laws being on the books is not enough.

On May 11 2018 01:01 Gorsameth wrote:
The US was real quick to back down on tariffs when the EU showed their counter tariffs. The same tactic can be be used here. Call their bluff and if they look to move to sanction companies you pull out strategically targeted tariffs again.
I fully expect the EU to keep honoring the deal with Iran and nothing to change but some Trump bluster. The wildcard is if Israel fancies going to war.

On May 11 2018 01:26 Mohdoo wrote:
Congress released Facebook ads Russia bought to influence black activists, far left and far right folks:

It's funny because I remember seeing exactly this post:
+ Show Spoiler +

Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/05/10/thousands-russian-bought-facebook-social-media-ads-released-congress/849959001/

Exploiting the fact that activists and anyone with "far" attached to their political beliefs tend to be very, very volatile people is a really sad thing to see. People who are motivated and frantic/stressed about the world are easy to tell they are right and that their anger is justified. When you already feel victimized and shitty, you are easy picking for these types of manipulation. These are people genuinely wanting the world to be a better place and they end up getting used as puppets.

On May 11 2018 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:


I don't understand the significance of the report beyond congress released more of the ads and they are either bad or just saying things like 2+2 =4 and using it to implicitly (and more explicitly in opinions like yours) undermine Black leftists .

Seems painfully similar to the same smear campaign from the civil rights era and before.

EDIT: Ezra Benson, is that you?

On May 11 2018 01:49 Mohdoo wrote:


I think the point is to show that this wasn't just 3 or 4 pages with 200-300 likes. These were big pages with a lot of visibility and it did manage to reach a significant number of activists and "far" people. That single post I recognized above had a ton of likes and shares. Their meme game was strong and it likely influenced a lot of people who were already vulnerable. When someone is already mad and disenfranchised, targeted ads like the one I showed above can be very potent. Black activists and "far" people are particularly so. "Far" people always feel like the sky is falling and that things have never been worse. Black activists have endured years of frustrating inaction and disenfranchisement. Loud, angry messaging that give these people someone to be mad at is really effective. At the end of the day, these 3 groups are really anxious to find some issue or person or group to really get mad at and blame for whatever situation they are mad about. Feeling like you have identified a cause of a problem gives people a feeling of safety and relief that the problem may indeed go away. This is all an emotional ploy to make people who feel powerless feel empowered through anger.

On May 11 2018 01:57 GreenHorizons wrote:


K, so doubling down on the shitty smears...

The ad you showed is just a fact (like 2+2=4) that has been widely shared for decades. If Russia posted something that said Trump was a narcissistic megalomaniac I wouldn't suggest that it's unduly influencing people like you are suggesting here with these ads. It's absurd.

Their meme game was shit. A handful of successful posts with facts on them means nothing, and their impression numbers are a drop in the bucket of the 2016 election. The only thing this shows me is that simply recognizing reality is something sorely lacking in both parties.

Did it ever occur to you that you're the one being goaded along with US propaganda like you're pushing here?

On May 11 2018 02:03 Mohdoo wrote:


What are you talking about smears? This is psychology. There is a reason Russia did this instead of targeting rich white mothers. Rich white mothers feel pretty good and they are not desperate to see their suffering ended. What exactly are you saying I am smearing? The entire point of activism is that people are so fed up that they are willing to do something. People who are disenfranchised are really upset, and for good reason. I am not saying any of this anger or anything is undue or wrong or anything like that.

I am pointing out how evil it is to take advantage of people who are in this situation. Black activists have great reason to feel the way they do. Far left/right people have less reason to be upset, but it ends up being the same mental state. If someone is starved, it is not smearing to point out they are more likely to eat gross food than someone who just ate dinner. I am pointing out that Russia used "starving people" to distribute "poison", knowing they are desperate for something to eat. The analogy is a little rough, but I think you get what I am saying. I am not saying these people did something wrong. I am saying they are victims.

On May 11 2018 02:09 GreenHorizons wrote:


Do you not know who Ezra Benson is?

You're giving us the modern/liberal rendition of his spiel and it's kinda disgusting. I guess if you're not familiar with the whole thing it's less troubling, but still incredibly problematic.

WTF about the ad you showed is 'poison'? I'm at a bit of a loss how to even engage such ridiculousness.

So because the US abused it's citizens for centuries, posts about it are taking advantage of them? How?

On May 11 2018 02:22 Mohdoo wrote:


The intention behind Russia's ads was division. "If people are a little angry, but still along for the ride, let's see if we can get them to jump ship and feel more divided". They were trying to make people more angry and have less faith in the government and society in general. They used emotional appeals to get people riled up and mad.

I think the distinction here is that you see it as: So long as the issues are real, Russia's motivations are irrelevant because blacks are still suffering, so the ads are good because they spread awareness for a real problem. Am I interpreting your thoughts correctly? It doesn't matter that Russia is trying to divide people so long as the division is based around real issues?

On May 11 2018 02:24 GreenHorizons wrote:


To borrow your analogy, I see Russia feeding hungry people and the people that were starving them getting mad it's upsetting their hustle. If telling people basic facts they should have learned in grade school qualifies as 'stoking division' then the problem is with the divisions, not the people pointing them out.

On May 11 2018 02:09 GreenHorizons wrote:


Do you not know who Ezra Benson was?

You're giving us the modern/liberal rendition of his spiel and it's kinda disgusting. I guess if you're not familiar with the whole thing it's less troubling, but still incredibly problematic.

WTF about the ad you showed is 'poison'? I'm at a bit of a loss how to even engage such ridiculousness.

So because the US abused it's citizens for centuries, posts about it are taking advantage of them? How?