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On May 11 2018 02:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 02:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 11 2018 02:03 Mohdoo wrote:On May 11 2018 01:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 11 2018 01:49 Mohdoo wrote:On May 11 2018 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 11 2018 01:26 Mohdoo wrote:Congress released Facebook ads Russia bought to influence black activists, far left and far right folks: It's funny because I remember seeing exactly this post: + Show Spoiler +Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/05/10/thousands-russian-bought-facebook-social-media-ads-released-congress/849959001/Exploiting the fact that activists and anyone with "far" attached to their political beliefs tend to be very, very volatile people is a really sad thing to see. People who are motivated and frantic/stressed about the world are easy to tell they are right and that their anger is justified. When you already feel victimized and shitty, you are easy picking for these types of manipulation. These are people genuinely wanting the world to be a better place and they end up getting used as puppets. I don't understand the significance of the report beyond congress released more of the ads and they are either bad or just saying things like 2+2 =4 and using it to implicitly (and more explicitly in opinions like yours) undermine Black leftists . Seems painfully similar to the same smear campaign from the civil rights era and before. EDIT: Ezra Benson, is that you? I think the point is to show that this wasn't just 3 or 4 pages with 200-300 likes. These were big pages with a lot of visibility and it did manage to reach a significant number of activists and "far" people. That single post I recognized above had a ton of likes and shares. Their meme game was strong and it likely influenced a lot of people who were already vulnerable. When someone is already mad and disenfranchised, targeted ads like the one I showed above can be very potent. Black activists and "far" people are particularly so. "Far" people always feel like the sky is falling and that things have never been worse. Black activists have endured years of frustrating inaction and disenfranchisement. Loud, angry messaging that give these people someone to be mad at is really effective. At the end of the day, these 3 groups are really anxious to find some issue or person or group to really get mad at and blame for whatever situation they are mad about. Feeling like you have identified a cause of a problem gives people a feeling of safety and relief that the problem may indeed go away. This is all an emotional ploy to make people who feel powerless feel empowered through anger. K, so doubling down on the shitty smears... The ad you showed is just a fact (like 2+2=4) that has been widely shared for decades. If Russia posted something that said Trump was a narcissistic megalomaniac I wouldn't suggest that it's unduly influencing people like you are suggesting here with these ads. It's absurd. Their meme game was shit. A handful of successful posts with facts on them means nothing, and their impression numbers are a drop in the bucket of the 2016 election. The only thing this shows me is that simply recognizing reality is something sorely lacking in both parties. Did it ever occur to you that you're the one being goaded along with US propaganda like you're pushing here? What are you talking about smears? This is psychology. There is a reason Russia did this instead of targeting rich white mothers. Rich white mothers feel pretty good and they are not desperate to see their suffering ended. What exactly are you saying I am smearing? The entire point of activism is that people are so fed up that they are willing to do something. People who are disenfranchised are really upset, and for good reason. I am not saying any of this anger or anything is undue or wrong or anything like that. I am pointing out how evil it is to take advantage of people who are in this situation. Black activists have great reason to feel the way they do. Far left/right people have less reason to be upset, but it ends up being the same mental state. If someone is starved, it is not smearing to point out they are more likely to eat gross food than someone who just ate dinner. I am pointing out that Russia used "starving people" to distribute "poison", knowing they are desperate for something to eat. The analogy is a little rough, but I think you get what I am saying. I am not saying these people did something wrong. I am saying they are victims. Do you not know who Ezra Benson was? You're giving us the modern/liberal rendition of his spiel and it's kinda disgusting. I guess if you're not familiar with the whole thing it's less troubling, but still incredibly problematic. WTF about the ad you showed is 'poison'? I'm at a bit of a loss how to even engage such ridiculousness. So because the US abused it's citizens for centuries, posts about it are taking advantage of them? How? None of what you are saying is wrong, but there are more productive venues and ways to talk these subjects. The post that Mohdoo cited is factually accurate, but limited in details. The goal of these posts isn't to inform and provide citizens with a better understanding of our history, but to make them angry. Although that angry has merit, it can limit our ability to openly discuss how these problems persist today. This is not how I would teach the history of the Black Panther movement.
No one is arguing that a facebook post is the best venue. That telling people facts about their country makes them angry is a problem with the country, not with Russia or China, or Satan himself if they say it. The point of the post Mohdoo selected isn't to anger me, it's to invalidate my righteous and necessary anger and turn it into me being taken advantage of by Russian propaganda.
It's the same shitty smears they used in the civil rights era.
"Oh they are just poor folks taken advantage of by Russian propaganda. If only they weren't so angry, perhaps we could address how these problems persist" As if that argument isn't a huge part of why.
It's the same trashy propaganda with some new superficial sympathy and it should be treated like the trash propaganda that it is. The fact that the example he cited was released last year emphasizes that the article and the response it provokes, exemplified in Mohdoo's (and to a lesser degree yours) post, is the point. Russia knows the US would rather blame them for 'people being unreasonably angry' then actually address the issue.
The con isn't getting me angry, the con is getting you to blame Russia for internal divisions. It's the same game fascists and dictators have played for millennia.
I mean Russia does the same thing. We say "Hey you shouldn't imprison gay people" then Russia says "Hey look at the US sewing division in our country. Those gay people are just too angered by US propaganda to be reasoned with"
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Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. A pretty center leaning friend and myself got into a dumb Facebook argument about an article he posted that we later found out was pure fiction and 100% Russia propaganda. It happened right after the election and he and I joke about it now.
But the Russian propaganda isn't just pointing out divisions in our country. It is also pushing false stories like Pizzagate and warping American's perception of their country. That part needs to be taken seriously, along with a serious look at our media that opened the door for this propaganda to take hold. You are right that this is a problem of our making, but we can't have a discussion about fixing while floating in sea of propaganda and false stories.
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On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. A pretty center leaning friend and myself got into a dumb Facebook argument about an article he posted that we later found out was pure fiction and 100% Russia propaganda. It happened right after the election and he and I joke about it now.
But the Russian propaganda isn't just pointing out divisions in our country. It is also pushing false stories like Pizzagate and warping American's perception of their country. That part needs to be taken seriously, along with a serious look at our media that opened the door for this propaganda to take hold. You are right that this is a problem of our making, but we can't have a discussion about fixing while floating in sea of propaganda and false stories.
None of any of that has to do with Black leftists as Mohdoo (and plenty of other liberals elsewhere) have tried multiple times, quite literally using the same material.
There are some legitimate issues around the whole ordeal that deserve attention, the trash mohdoo has been pushing several times and you've been too endearing of imo has to be identified as the problematic propaganda it is and completely and totally shut down. That argument can not be allowed to propagate.
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On May 11 2018 01:58 pmh wrote:
Trump becoming more popular in the usa,the economy is good and its all about the economy. And then he might even get a historic peace deal in korea. Elections will be a walk in the park for the republicans,the democrats still "don't get it" as they like to phrase in the usa.
do you have a citation for trump becoming more popular? cuz it looks like his popularity is very stable to me, neither rising nor falling. as of the last time I looked.
and we all know he won't get a peace deal in korea, so I don't know why you'd say "might" there as if it were a credible possibility; perhaps you are unaware of the evidence that demonstrates he will not get such a deal?
do you have any well-justified factual basis for your claim that elections will be a walk in the park for republicans?
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On May 11 2018 03:20 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 01:58 pmh wrote:
Trump becoming more popular in the usa,the economy is good and its all about the economy. And then he might even get a historic peace deal in korea. Elections will be a walk in the park for the republicans,the democrats still "don't get it" as they like to phrase in the usa. do you have a citation for trump becoming more popular? cuz it looks like his popularity is very stable to me, neither rising nor falling. and we all know he won't get a peace deal in korea, so I don't know why you'd say "might" there as if it were a credible possibility; perhaps you are unaware of the evidence that demonstrates he will not get such a deal? do you have any well-justified factual basis for your claim that elections will be a walk in the park for republicans?
looking at general trends since December he's been trending back up, recent polls showing a spike in his approval. Of course he's still underwater, but he's basically stabilized back where he was before the election and trending upwards (despite the nonstop focus on him, Russia, and Cohen)
www.realclearpolitics.com
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/voters/
To be fair, if you're specifically talking about "favorable/unfavorable" those have been more consistent but show a less pronounced version of the same trend.
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On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions.
It's not about political leanings. It is about experiences. If someone has had a really rough life, they are a lot more likely to grasp onto something that will make their lives better. White rich mothers do not suffer from racism. They live comfy lives. They don't have anything to revolt against because they are doing just fine. People on the far left/right and black activists are all groups that believe things are severely bad right now. It is the same mechanism that allows for people whose family members were killed by drones to become radicalized.
But as I said, black activists have legitimate grievances. Very legitimate. Anyone who is made to suffer throughout their lives will be more vulnerable to promises of a better tomorrow. It is the same reason coal miners and steele makers are easy to manipulate by Trump. They feel weakened and powerless and Trump offered them a hope of power. It is all just basic psychology. It has nothing to do with political leanings. It is all about suffering and needing relief from suffering.
Black activists have every reason to feel awful. It would take an insane amount of emotional resilience to not be impacted. No one is like that. We are only human and living through racism is devastating. I have endured much less than what most black people go through and it was really hard on me growing up. It's an experience so so specific and shitty you gotta experience it to know it. There is no shame in being emotionally impacted by racism.
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On May 11 2018 03:59 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. It's not about political leanings. It is about experiences. If someone has had a really rough life, they are a lot more likely to grasp onto something that will make their lives better. White rich mothers do not suffer from racism. They live comfy lives. They don't have anything to revolt against because they are doing just fine. People on the far left/right and black activists are all groups that believe things are severely bad right now. It is the same mechanism that allows for people whose family members were killed by drones to become radicalized. But as I said, black activists have legitimate grievances. Very legitimate. Anyone who is made to suffer throughout their lives will be more vulnerable to promises of a better tomorrow. It is the same reason coal miners and steele makers are easy to manipulate by Trump. They feel weakened and powerless and Trump offered them a hope of power. It is all just basic psychology. It has nothing to do with political leanings. It is all about suffering and needing relief from suffering. Black activists have every reason to feel awful. It would take an insane amount of emotional resilience to not be impacted. No one is like that. We are only human and living through racism is devastating. I have endured much less than what most black people go through and it was really hard on me growing up. It's an experience so so specific and shitty you gotta experience it to know it. There is no shame in being emotionally impacted by racism.
Mohdoo, we get that you feel sympathetic toward black leftists, but GH’s gripe is that sympathy absolves feelings of guilt without actually taking action on what’s causing the guilt.
“Black people are right to be angry” + “Russia is targeting Black anger” = “Damn those dastardly Russians for taking advantage of Black anger (not like it’s my fault or anything)”
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I don't see why they are both mutually exclusive as it appears to be argued. You can be sympathetic towards racial inequality in USA, and to deplore Russian facebook ads. I don't feel that Mohdoo was smearing anything as GH appears to be suggesting.
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On May 11 2018 04:38 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 03:59 Mohdoo wrote:On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. It's not about political leanings. It is about experiences. If someone has had a really rough life, they are a lot more likely to grasp onto something that will make their lives better. White rich mothers do not suffer from racism. They live comfy lives. They don't have anything to revolt against because they are doing just fine. People on the far left/right and black activists are all groups that believe things are severely bad right now. It is the same mechanism that allows for people whose family members were killed by drones to become radicalized. But as I said, black activists have legitimate grievances. Very legitimate. Anyone who is made to suffer throughout their lives will be more vulnerable to promises of a better tomorrow. It is the same reason coal miners and steele makers are easy to manipulate by Trump. They feel weakened and powerless and Trump offered them a hope of power. It is all just basic psychology. It has nothing to do with political leanings. It is all about suffering and needing relief from suffering. Black activists have every reason to feel awful. It would take an insane amount of emotional resilience to not be impacted. No one is like that. We are only human and living through racism is devastating. I have endured much less than what most black people go through and it was really hard on me growing up. It's an experience so so specific and shitty you gotta experience it to know it. There is no shame in being emotionally impacted by racism. Mohdoo, we get that you feel sympathetic toward black leftists, but GH’s gripe is that sympathy absolves feelings of guilt without actually taking action on what’s causing the guilt. “Black people are right to be angry” + “Russia is targeting Black anger” = “Damn those dastardly Russians for taking advantage of Black anger (not like it’s my fault or anything)”
I think the problem is, the Russians don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it to sow dissent, just like how they supported every single Eurosceptic party, not because they are oh so worried about our sovereignty.
It might feel nice at first, hey they bring attention to a real problem you are affected by, and then, your cause gets saddled with its own trump before you know it.
Of course it is a hard sell to tell someone yeah you need help, but believe me you don't need their help....
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On May 11 2018 04:38 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 03:59 Mohdoo wrote:On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. It's not about political leanings. It is about experiences. If someone has had a really rough life, they are a lot more likely to grasp onto something that will make their lives better. White rich mothers do not suffer from racism. They live comfy lives. They don't have anything to revolt against because they are doing just fine. People on the far left/right and black activists are all groups that believe things are severely bad right now. It is the same mechanism that allows for people whose family members were killed by drones to become radicalized. But as I said, black activists have legitimate grievances. Very legitimate. Anyone who is made to suffer throughout their lives will be more vulnerable to promises of a better tomorrow. It is the same reason coal miners and steele makers are easy to manipulate by Trump. They feel weakened and powerless and Trump offered them a hope of power. It is all just basic psychology. It has nothing to do with political leanings. It is all about suffering and needing relief from suffering. Black activists have every reason to feel awful. It would take an insane amount of emotional resilience to not be impacted. No one is like that. We are only human and living through racism is devastating. I have endured much less than what most black people go through and it was really hard on me growing up. It's an experience so so specific and shitty you gotta experience it to know it. There is no shame in being emotionally impacted by racism. Mohdoo, we get that you feel sympathetic toward black leftists, but GH’s gripe is that sympathy absolves feelings of guilt without actually taking action on what’s causing the guilt. “Black people are right to be angry” + “Russia is targeting Black anger” = “Damn those dastardly Russians for taking advantage of Black anger (not like it’s my fault or anything)”
I'm an immigrant baby. It isn't my fault. I am Hispanic and didn't do any of that shit. I've endured racism as well. It blows ass. Are you saying some component of this is my fault?
Maybe I don't understand what you mean by being absolved of guilt. What guilt?
On May 11 2018 05:14 Evotroid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 04:38 Ryzel wrote:On May 11 2018 03:59 Mohdoo wrote:On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. It's not about political leanings. It is about experiences. If someone has had a really rough life, they are a lot more likely to grasp onto something that will make their lives better. White rich mothers do not suffer from racism. They live comfy lives. They don't have anything to revolt against because they are doing just fine. People on the far left/right and black activists are all groups that believe things are severely bad right now. It is the same mechanism that allows for people whose family members were killed by drones to become radicalized. But as I said, black activists have legitimate grievances. Very legitimate. Anyone who is made to suffer throughout their lives will be more vulnerable to promises of a better tomorrow. It is the same reason coal miners and steele makers are easy to manipulate by Trump. They feel weakened and powerless and Trump offered them a hope of power. It is all just basic psychology. It has nothing to do with political leanings. It is all about suffering and needing relief from suffering. Black activists have every reason to feel awful. It would take an insane amount of emotional resilience to not be impacted. No one is like that. We are only human and living through racism is devastating. I have endured much less than what most black people go through and it was really hard on me growing up. It's an experience so so specific and shitty you gotta experience it to know it. There is no shame in being emotionally impacted by racism. Mohdoo, we get that you feel sympathetic toward black leftists, but GH’s gripe is that sympathy absolves feelings of guilt without actually taking action on what’s causing the guilt. “Black people are right to be angry” + “Russia is targeting Black anger” = “Damn those dastardly Russians for taking advantage of Black anger (not like it’s my fault or anything)” I think the problem is, the Russians don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it to sow dissent, just like how they supported every single Eurosceptic party, not because they are oh so worried about our sovereignty.
Considering we are discussing the fact that this was done to increase black skepticism of existing institutions all for the sake of depressing black turnout for Clinton, all of this was geared towards Jeff Sessions becoming AG. Most people would consider that an unsuccessful instance of activism.
No matter how you slice it, the intent was to prevent Clinton from being president, which resulted in AG Jeff Sessions. Black anger was used to create a worse situation for black Americans. They were not only used, they were used against themselves. Note: black americans are not to blame for that. They did nothing wrong.
Clinton would not abolish the police, but I can be sure her AG would not be as bad as Jeff Sessions.
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I'm kind of speechless. This isn't how things work. It's sort of similar to some reports we had about how Trump did business with people and then stiffed them, but it's still crazy that no one was able to point out that this is stupid and deals don't work like that.
Alternative take: Iran had already more or less agreed to stay in with the other nations, and now America wants to take the opportunity to look tough by telling Iran to do something and then bragging when they do it.
Still stupid.
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I would not call the depressed turn out black activism in any way. The Clintons are directly connected to some of the most harmful criminal justice reforms in the last three decades. And a lot of that harm centered on black men. And the campaign plan leading up to November was focused on trying to be everything to everyone, while still being one of the two most unpopular presidential candidates in US history.
On May 11 2018 06:01 Kyadytim wrote:https://twitter.com/AFP/status/994634200652402688I'm kind of speechless. This isn't how things work. It's sort of similar to some reports we had about how Trump did business with people and then stiffed them, but it's still crazy that no one was able to point out that this is stupid and deals don't work like that. Alternative take: Iran had already more or less agreed to stay in with the other nations, and now America wants to take the opportunity to look tough by telling Iran to do something and then bragging when they do it. Still stupid.
WTF is this shit? Are these fuckers high? There is no amount of money you could pay me to be one of those inspectors.
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On May 11 2018 06:01 Kyadytim wrote:https://twitter.com/AFP/status/994634200652402688I'm kind of speechless. This isn't how things work. It's sort of similar to some reports we had about how Trump did business with people and then stiffed them, but it's still crazy that no one was able to point out that this is stupid and deals don't work like that. Alternative take: Iran had already more or less agreed to stay in with the other nations, and now America wants to take the opportunity to look tough by telling Iran to do something and then bragging when they do it. Still stupid.
The first analogy I can think of is my boss fires me, then the next day demands I still do my job. That's incredible.
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If the rest of the world wants to uphold the treaty and wait for the US to stop being stupid and join up again then obviously the inspections would keep going.
The weird thing is that its the US saying it. But then we know they have no plan so this is hardly a surprise.
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On May 11 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
If the rest of the world wants to uphold the treaty and wait for the US to stop being stupid and join up again then obviously the inspections would keep going.
The weird thing is that its the US saying it. But then we know they have no plan so this is hardly a surprise.
Well we are also threatening to sanction you in 87 days if you don’t stop doing business with Iran. Yet, we want the inspections to continue.
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On May 11 2018 06:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
If the rest of the world wants to uphold the treaty and wait for the US to stop being stupid and join up again then obviously the inspections would keep going.
The weird thing is that its the US saying it. But then we know they have no plan so this is hardly a surprise.
Well we are also threatening to sanction you in 87 days if you don’t stop doing business with Iran. Yet, we want the inspections to continue. As I said, there is no plan.
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On May 11 2018 06:25 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 06:20 Plansix wrote:On May 11 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
If the rest of the world wants to uphold the treaty and wait for the US to stop being stupid and join up again then obviously the inspections would keep going.
The weird thing is that its the US saying it. But then we know they have no plan so this is hardly a surprise.
Well we are also threatening to sanction you in 87 days if you don’t stop doing business with Iran. Yet, we want the inspections to continue. As I said, there is no plan.
What if they ended the deal, but are just so terrible at government that they never end up re-instating sanctions against Iran?
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On May 11 2018 05:47 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 04:38 Ryzel wrote:On May 11 2018 03:59 Mohdoo wrote:On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. It's not about political leanings. It is about experiences. If someone has had a really rough life, they are a lot more likely to grasp onto something that will make their lives better. White rich mothers do not suffer from racism. They live comfy lives. They don't have anything to revolt against because they are doing just fine. People on the far left/right and black activists are all groups that believe things are severely bad right now. It is the same mechanism that allows for people whose family members were killed by drones to become radicalized. But as I said, black activists have legitimate grievances. Very legitimate. Anyone who is made to suffer throughout their lives will be more vulnerable to promises of a better tomorrow. It is the same reason coal miners and steele makers are easy to manipulate by Trump. They feel weakened and powerless and Trump offered them a hope of power. It is all just basic psychology. It has nothing to do with political leanings. It is all about suffering and needing relief from suffering. Black activists have every reason to feel awful. It would take an insane amount of emotional resilience to not be impacted. No one is like that. We are only human and living through racism is devastating. I have endured much less than what most black people go through and it was really hard on me growing up. It's an experience so so specific and shitty you gotta experience it to know it. There is no shame in being emotionally impacted by racism. Mohdoo, we get that you feel sympathetic toward black leftists, but GH’s gripe is that sympathy absolves feelings of guilt without actually taking action on what’s causing the guilt. “Black people are right to be angry” + “Russia is targeting Black anger” = “Damn those dastardly Russians for taking advantage of Black anger (not like it’s my fault or anything)” I'm an immigrant baby. It isn't my fault. I am Hispanic and didn't do any of that shit. I've endured racism as well. It blows ass. Are you saying some component of this is my fault? Maybe I don't understand what you mean by being absolved of guilt. What guilt? Show nested quote +On May 11 2018 05:14 Evotroid wrote:On May 11 2018 04:38 Ryzel wrote:On May 11 2018 03:59 Mohdoo wrote:On May 11 2018 03:06 Plansix wrote:
Mohdoo's framing does have the overtone that far left folks "fell for it". Propaganda has the ability to influence anyone. There no secret political leaning, profession or trick we can preform to become immune that potential. People on the far left or right are no more likely than a centrist to buy into false stories meant to stoke divisions. It's not about political leanings. It is about experiences. If someone has had a really rough life, they are a lot more likely to grasp onto something that will make their lives better. White rich mothers do not suffer from racism. They live comfy lives. They don't have anything to revolt against because they are doing just fine. People on the far left/right and black activists are all groups that believe things are severely bad right now. It is the same mechanism that allows for people whose family members were killed by drones to become radicalized. But as I said, black activists have legitimate grievances. Very legitimate. Anyone who is made to suffer throughout their lives will be more vulnerable to promises of a better tomorrow. It is the same reason coal miners and steele makers are easy to manipulate by Trump. They feel weakened and powerless and Trump offered them a hope of power. It is all just basic psychology. It has nothing to do with political leanings. It is all about suffering and needing relief from suffering. Black activists have every reason to feel awful. It would take an insane amount of emotional resilience to not be impacted. No one is like that. We are only human and living through racism is devastating. I have endured much less than what most black people go through and it was really hard on me growing up. It's an experience so so specific and shitty you gotta experience it to know it. There is no shame in being emotionally impacted by racism. Mohdoo, we get that you feel sympathetic toward black leftists, but GH’s gripe is that sympathy absolves feelings of guilt without actually taking action on what’s causing the guilt. “Black people are right to be angry” + “Russia is targeting Black anger” = “Damn those dastardly Russians for taking advantage of Black anger (not like it’s my fault or anything)” I think the problem is, the Russians don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it to sow dissent, just like how they supported every single Eurosceptic party, not because they are oh so worried about our sovereignty. Considering we are discussing the fact that this was done to increase black skepticism of existing institutions all for the sake of depressing black turnout for Clinton, all of this was geared towards Jeff Sessions becoming AG. Most people would consider that an unsuccessful instance of activism. No matter how you slice it, the intent was to prevent Clinton from being president, which resulted in AG Jeff Sessions. Black anger was used to create a worse situation for black Americans. They were not only used, they were used against themselves. Note: black americans are not to blame for that. They did nothing wrong. Clinton would not abolish the police, but I can be sure her AG would not be as bad as Jeff Sessions.
If I understand GH’s views correctly, if you’re not actively part of the solution then you are part of the problem. The guilt doesn’t reference your individual actions/feelings, but rather your implicit acceptance of a heinous status quo and witnessing the anger and suffering resulting from said status quo. Placing blame on the Russians for their anger helps alleviate the blame on Americans.
As for Jeff Sessions, I would imagine GH would argue that it’s ultimately beneficial he’s in power for the same reason GH sees benefit in Trump; the shittier things get, the more likely actions will replace words (revolution).
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On May 11 2018 06:01 Kyadytim wrote:https://twitter.com/AFP/status/994634200652402688I'm kind of speechless. This isn't how things work. It's sort of similar to some reports we had about how Trump did business with people and then stiffed them, but it's still crazy that no one was able to point out that this is stupid and deals don't work like that. Alternative take: Iran had already more or less agreed to stay in with the other nations, and now America wants to take the opportunity to look tough by telling Iran to do something and then bragging when they do it. Still stupid.
So Trump pulls out of Iran Deal, we're putting sanctions back on Iran, our SoS tells everyone else to stay in the deal and pick up our slack that we left behind, and now we want to start enforcing additional measures that were originally in the deal (monitoring) without being in the deal anymore? It sounds like we're exploiting both our allies and Iran here, really badly.
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On May 11 2018 06:40 Ryzel wrote:
As for Jeff Sessions, I would imagine GH would argue that it’s ultimately beneficial he’s in power for the same reason GH sees benefit in Trump; the shittier things get, the more likely actions will replace words (revolution).
I'm sure Trump will move the needle, but I kinda hoped we could get there without gutting most of the anti discrimination regulations, eviscerating the tax code and having care about real Nazi again. Like maybe another recession and maybe Florida could kinda fall in the ocean a little?
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/l3U5Ci2.png)
