Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On May 08 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: A lot of things about Israel make me uncomfortable with them as allies. I just don't voice them all at once every time I talk about them.
It's just unclear to me why it would be anywhere near a tipping point. It's like saying the "This is America" video has made you 'increasingly uncomfortable' with the US's lack of gun control. Like it wasn't all the massacres and deaths?
On May 08 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: A lot of things about Israel make me uncomfortable with them as allies. I just don't voice them all at once every time I talk about them.
It's just unclear to me why it would be anywhere near a tipping point. It's like saying the "This is America" video has made you 'increasingly uncomfortable' about the US's lack of gun control. Like it wasn't all the massacres?
I don’t know what this tipping point is that you are referencing.
On May 08 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: A lot of things about Israel make me uncomfortable with them as allies. I just don't voice them all at once every time I talk about them.
It's just unclear to me why it would be anywhere near a tipping point. It's like saying the "This is America" video has made you 'increasingly uncomfortable' about the US's lack of gun control. Like it wasn't all the massacres?
I don’t know what this tipping point is that you are referencing.
I don't understand how someone could still think being allies with Israel like we are is acceptable, but then their recent behavior regarding Iran would impact their opinion on the matter much if at all.
Why aren't you already opposed to our relationship with Israel, why are you still only 'uncomfortable' and how does this Iran thing make a difference? Those other atrocities the US allegedly opposes, this Iran thing is coming with the support of the US government. Why would them doing something we publicly want make you question their alliance in a way that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and arming of genocidal maniacs didn't?
On May 08 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: A lot of things about Israel make me uncomfortable with them as allies. I just don't voice them all at once every time I talk about them.
It's just unclear to me why it would be anywhere near a tipping point. It's like saying the "This is America" video has made you 'increasingly uncomfortable' about the US's lack of gun control. Like it wasn't all the massacres?
I don’t know what this tipping point is that you are referencing.
I don't understand how someone could still think being allies with Israel like we are is acceptable, but then their recent behavior regarding Iran would impact their opinion on the matter much if at all.
Why aren't you already opposed to our relationship with Israel, why are you still only 'uncomfortable' and how does this Iran thing make a difference? Those other atrocities the US allegedly opposes, this Iran thing is coming with the support of the US government. Why would them doing something we publicly want make you question their alliance in a way that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and arming of genocidal maniacs didn't?
That clear it up?
First off, I was incorrect and misread the article and thought it was Israel's goverment digging up dirt on former Obama officials. I was incorrect. And you are correct that I have lost all good will towards Israel and don't consider them much of an ally. But there is a not really liking the nation and wanting to not be allies with them and that nation using clandestine methods to influence US policy. But again, that didn't happen. But if it had, it would only strengthen my opinion that Israel is a shit ally.
On May 08 2018 06:16 Plansix wrote: A lot of things about Israel make me uncomfortable with them as allies. I just don't voice them all at once every time I talk about them.
It's just unclear to me why it would be anywhere near a tipping point. It's like saying the "This is America" video has made you 'increasingly uncomfortable' about the US's lack of gun control. Like it wasn't all the massacres?
I don’t know what this tipping point is that you are referencing.
I don't understand how someone could still think being allies with Israel like we are is acceptable, but then their recent behavior regarding Iran would impact their opinion on the matter much if at all.
Why aren't you already opposed to our relationship with Israel, why are you still only 'uncomfortable' and how does this Iran thing make a difference? Those other atrocities the US allegedly opposes, this Iran thing is coming with the support of the US government. Why would them doing something we publicly want make you question their alliance in a way that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and arming of genocidal maniacs didn't?
That clear it up?
First off, I was incorrect and misread the article and thought it was Israel's goverment digging up dirt on former Obama officials. I was incorrect. And you are correct that I have lost all good will towards Israel and don't consider them much of an ally. But there is a not really liking the nation and wanting to not be allies with them and that nation using clandestine methods to influence US policy. But again, that didn't happen. But if it had, it would only strengthen my opinion that Israel is a shit ally.
They are a great ally, it's just they have allied with a shit agenda. I mean you're getting mad (or 'increasingly uncomfortable') at them for carrying our presidents water. They are a lot of things, but a shitty ally isn't really one of them.
It isn't a black-and-white alliance-or-no issue. It's being able to say "no" to an ally or disapprove of their actions. If you can't, that is absolutely not a "great" ally.
You don't have to just look at Israel strong-arming us out of an Iran deal as the only example to dislike our partnership with Israel. It is not an alliance. Saudi Arabia is an ally. Are they "great"? Israel has a unique status that allows it to antagonize its neighbors, some of whom could be allies or enemies to us. I get it is very much a "both sides" issue, and that Palestine plays plenty of dirty, dirty-pool. But Israel has a way of taking its actions for granted, and it is a never-ending problem that we've directly enabled.
There is only one great alliance: We are the only country in NATO to call NATO into a war. We use their countries to give ourselves access to the world like no country has ever had. It is wide and multi-lateral enough that any nation can be subject to removal. If we manage to lose NATO (and that's not something I thought possible 4 years ago but now do) that would devastate our country. If we lose Israel, say what you will about the morality of it, but what would it materially cost us?
And I'm not sure what the morality of it is, to be honest. WW2 has long past, Jewish people today are not in a refugee crisis. We're a secular country, we're not in the Holy Land business. What are we doing, that we continue to allow Israel to push its borders? I'm really not sure how that's good for us. Or anybody. Unless you like seeing white people take more land.
On May 08 2018 08:37 Leporello wrote: It isn't a black-and-white alliance-or-no issue. It's being able to say "no" to an ally or disapprove of their actions. If you can't, that is absolutely not a "great" ally.
You don't have to just look at Israel strong-arming us out of an Iran deal as the only example to dislike our partnership with Israel. It is not an alliance. Saudi Arabia is an ally. Israel has a status that allows it to antagonize its neighbors, some of whom are our allies or could be. I get it is very much a "both sides" issue, and that Palestine plays plenty of dirty, dirty-pool. But Israel has a way of taking its actions for granted, and it is a never-ending problem that we've directly enabled.
There is only one great alliance: We are the only country in NATO to call NATO into a war. We use their countries to give ourselves access to the world like no country has ever had. It is wide and multi-lateral enough that any nation can be subject to removal. If we manage to lose NATO (and that's not something I thought possible 4 years ago but now do) that would devastate our country. If we lose Israel, say what you will about the morality of it, but what would it materially cost us?
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say, but I have a hard time buying Israel strong arming us out of a deal the president ran on (among many other things) blowing up. Israel is doing our president's work for him but I'm supposed to accept the idea that Israel is forcing us out of the deal or isn't acting as an ally to the leader of our country?
I'm going to need more than your assertion such is the case before I can follow you down that road.
To your question about the material cost of no longer funding and arming Israel's inhumanity, probably not much beyond further hitting the mic's bottom line.
Edit: the clarification helps, ya got me as why we're doing what we're doing, well besides the exception you carved out . ____________________________________________________________________________________
Besides having New York's top law enforcement official resigning on seemingly credible allegations of being a criminal abuser of multiple women, this is a huge blow to the whole state level crimes back up plan regarding the Trump campaign lackeys expected to be pardoned (if Trump so desires).
On May 08 2018 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) just made an amazing music video that is extremely politically charged, from arguing that we treat guns with more dignity than human lives, to the fact that society and churches focus more on pop culture and money that they do about topics of importance, substance, and morality.
Here's his video:
Here's a good analysis of it:
"Over the weekend, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino, took the internet by storm with the release of his new single “This is America.” First previewing the track on SNL, the rapper then premiered the Hiro Murai-directed music video which includes several references to significant events within past and recent history.
Shot in a fluid format, the music video balances well-choreographed moments amid scenes of brutal violence, including the use of guns, physical harm, and even suicide. Both the lyrics and visuals take a hard-hitting stance on violence and race relations within the U.S., while ultimately speaking to how they’re downplayed, romanticized, or even ignored.
Notably, “This is America” marks the artist’s first release since his 2016 album Awaken My Love, which featured the lead single “Redbone.” In light of the new track and its accompanying four-minute visual, we’ve compiled a list of ideas and concepts you may have missed.
First, re-watch the video below.
“This Is America” graphically depicts gun violence, with some claiming the video, in certain scenes, is trying to convey how firearms are treated with more respect than human lives. In the opening scenes, Glover shoots an unnamed person, execution style. In the following frame, the gun is carried off in a special cloth by a well-dressed man while the lifeless body is dragged away. Each time someone is shot, this same process takes place.
Similarly, the video points out the consistent presence of firearms when it comes to acts of terror. In addition to the aforementioned execution scene, the above shot, where members of a choir are singing, could be pointing to the 2015 Charleston Church Massacre. Here, the video potentially stresses that death by gun violence is not a one-off occurrence, more so when it comes to black Americans.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
During the Jim Crow era – which legally enforced racial segregation in the South – minstrel shows and blackface were not uncommon. Here, some have drawn parallels between Gambino’s movements and that of an old Jim Crow poster.
Following suit, the video includes references to several popular dances both in the U.S. and across Africa. The South African Gwara Gwara and Blocboy JB’s dance flag are included while people riot in the background. This could be read as how people happily adopt black culture but turn a blind eye to the violence that affects black people.
In the Bible, Revelations 6:8 (KJV) reads: “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and the name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” According to the scripture, the appearance of four horsemen signifies the oncoming apocalypse – with death represented by the final, white one. Unbeknownst to Gambino and his dancers, a white horse and a cop car appear in the corner of the frame.
Last but not least, Gambino also makes a reference to Jordan Peele’s Get Out. The film – which also featured Gambino’s song “Redbone” – notably introduced the theory of the “sunken place,” in which marginalized people are aware of the violence that surrounds them, yet are powerless to stop it.
Thanks to movies (like Jordan Peele's "Get Out") and music videos like this one, statements about our culture that need to be made are being made to millions of viewers in America. Hopefully, these issues are portrayed continuously until they're properly addressed. We need to be inundated with these important messages until the majority of people can no longer turn a blind eye.
It's mostly meh to me. There's some problems with the video as the article unintentionally highlights. It took almost all of the racial motivation and charging out of the Charleston shooting, and turned a terrorist attack committed by one of several white supremacists who have been committing these terrorist attacks into something about 'guns'. Of course that may just be a bad take from this person, but it's a popular one.
I think the best argument I've heard in favor of it's profoundness, compared it to Kubriks Clockwork Orange, and the Ludovico Technique. That the song/dance is supposed to be Beethoven and the ultraviolence, well the ultraviolence.
Where CG performed especially poorly was on the racial aspect of all this. Presuming the ultraviolence critique has anything to do with what he was actually going for. By not inverting the racial dynamics (shooting a white church choir for instance or having a white person commit the act) he basically pulled the punch. In video that's already seen as 'too much' it's one he shouldn't have pulled.
The idea in the piece I've noticed a lot of Black people taking issue with is that; lets say this video is indeed a statement on how White people ignore Black suffering but love for us to entertain them, even when that entertainment is borne out of the suffering they ignore.
CG took the approach that suggests more black bodies and violence against them is what white people have to see in order to trigger a conscious and do something. That also means that Black people have to watch it too, for what, the case isn't made by CG or others who do so (Shaun King) comes to mind.
To give an example, TI's video Warzone did a much better job imo, if by just inverting the racial dynamics of the situations that were it's contemporaries. Also the song is better imo.
It also closes with a quote that sums up the issue pretty well.
Nah I disagree with most of your criticism. It isn't just about how white people like black entertainment. It's also a criticism of the black people who embrace a kind of contemporary minstrelsy, and end up participating in the reinsciption of the racializing logics that they claim to protest. "Get that money, black man"
As for the critique that "white people (shouldn't) have to see it" I'm not sure what to make of it. You can't do much of anything about things you never see.
On May 08 2018 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) just made an amazing music video that is extremely politically charged, from arguing that we treat guns with more dignity than human lives, to the fact that society and churches focus more on pop culture and money that they do about topics of importance, substance, and morality.
"Over the weekend, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino, took the internet by storm with the release of his new single “This is America.” First previewing the track on SNL, the rapper then premiered the Hiro Murai-directed music video which includes several references to significant events within past and recent history.
Shot in a fluid format, the music video balances well-choreographed moments amid scenes of brutal violence, including the use of guns, physical harm, and even suicide. Both the lyrics and visuals take a hard-hitting stance on violence and race relations within the U.S., while ultimately speaking to how they’re downplayed, romanticized, or even ignored.
Notably, “This is America” marks the artist’s first release since his 2016 album Awaken My Love, which featured the lead single “Redbone.” In light of the new track and its accompanying four-minute visual, we’ve compiled a list of ideas and concepts you may have missed.
First, re-watch the video below.
“This Is America” graphically depicts gun violence, with some claiming the video, in certain scenes, is trying to convey how firearms are treated with more respect than human lives. In the opening scenes, Glover shoots an unnamed person, execution style. In the following frame, the gun is carried off in a special cloth by a well-dressed man while the lifeless body is dragged away. Each time someone is shot, this same process takes place.
Similarly, the video points out the consistent presence of firearms when it comes to acts of terror. In addition to the aforementioned execution scene, the above shot, where members of a choir are singing, could be pointing to the 2015 Charleston Church Massacre. Here, the video potentially stresses that death by gun violence is not a one-off occurrence, more so when it comes to black Americans.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
During the Jim Crow era – which legally enforced racial segregation in the South – minstrel shows and blackface were not uncommon. Here, some have drawn parallels between Gambino’s movements and that of an old Jim Crow poster.
Following suit, the video includes references to several popular dances both in the U.S. and across Africa. The South African Gwara Gwara and Blocboy JB’s dance flag are included while people riot in the background. This could be read as how people happily adopt black culture but turn a blind eye to the violence that affects black people.
In the Bible, Revelations 6:8 (KJV) reads: “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and the name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” According to the scripture, the appearance of four horsemen signifies the oncoming apocalypse – with death represented by the final, white one. Unbeknownst to Gambino and his dancers, a white horse and a cop car appear in the corner of the frame.
Last but not least, Gambino also makes a reference to Jordan Peele’s Get Out. The film – which also featured Gambino’s song “Redbone” – notably introduced the theory of the “sunken place,” in which marginalized people are aware of the violence that surrounds them, yet are powerless to stop it.
Thanks to movies (like Jordan Peele's "Get Out") and music videos like this one, statements about our culture that need to be made are being made to millions of viewers in America. Hopefully, these issues are portrayed continuously until they're properly addressed. We need to be inundated with these important messages until the majority of people can no longer turn a blind eye.
It's mostly meh to me. There's some problems with the video as the article unintentionally highlights. It took almost all of the racial motivation and charging out of the Charleston shooting, and turned a terrorist attack committed by one of several white supremacists who have been committing these terrorist attacks into something about 'guns'. Of course that may just be a bad take from this person, but it's a popular one.
I think the best argument I've heard in favor of it's profoundness, compared it to Kubriks Clockwork Orange, and the Ludovico Technique. That the song/dance is supposed to be Beethoven and the ultraviolence, well the ultraviolence.
Where CG performed especially poorly was on the racial aspect of all this. Presuming the ultraviolence critique has anything to do with what he was actually going for. By not inverting the racial dynamics (shooting a white church choir for instance or having a white person commit the act) he basically pulled the punch. In video that's already seen as 'too much' it's one he shouldn't have pulled.
The idea in the piece I've noticed a lot of Black people taking issue with is that; lets say this video is indeed a statement on how White people ignore Black suffering but love for us to entertain them, even when that entertainment is borne out of the suffering they ignore.
CG took the approach that suggests more black bodies and violence against them is what white people have to see in order to trigger a conscious and do something. That also means that Black people have to watch it too, for what, the case isn't made by CG or others who do so (Shaun King) comes to mind.
To give an example, TI's video Warzone did a much better job imo, if by just inverting the racial dynamics of the situations that were it's contemporaries. Also the song is better imo.
It also closes with a quote that sums up the issue pretty well.
Nah I disagree with most of your criticism. It isn't just about how white people like black entertainment. It's also a criticism of the black people who embrace a kind of contemporary minstrelsy, and end up participating in the reinsciption of the racializing logics that they claim to protest. "Get that money, black man"
As for the critique that "white people (shouldn't) have to see it" I'm not sure what to make of it. You can't do much of anything about things you never see.
I mean my personal critique was that it was just a meh piece, but that's mostly a subjective personal opinion. I do think the minstrelsy was an important part of the commentary conveyed though and probably the best part of the whole performance artistically. The contemporary angle you mention while I think a powerful interpretation I'm not entirely sure it was quite so intentional or if it was, that it was received that way or that people receptive to that interpretation are trying to hear it from Gambino.
I hate interpreting art in general for a lot of reasons, not the least of which including things like artist intention vs audience interpretation and who gets to decide what.
I think the critique about 'white people needing to see it to do anything about it' I tried to preemptively address that with a video/quote from a while ago showing white people already know, and have known, the question is why are they so accepting of it. The answer isn't they haven't seen it, not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway.
Of course I'm more Stokely Carmichael than MLK when it comes to urging white people to ensure black people enjoy their constitutional rights alongside their white peers by turning endless calls for reform and acting right into actually making measurable improvements.
Like I mentioned though, I just don't think it was especially profound, or if it was, it was lost on most of it's audience. If it triggered deep insightful thoughts for people I can't argue with that though.
But while rappers turnt pundits are a thing, I'd like to submit Comrade J.Cole and his critique of capitalism and why it 'doesn't do it anymore'.
On May 08 2018 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) just made an amazing music video that is extremely politically charged, from arguing that we treat guns with more dignity than human lives, to the fact that society and churches focus more on pop culture and money that they do about topics of importance, substance, and morality.
"Over the weekend, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino, took the internet by storm with the release of his new single “This is America.” First previewing the track on SNL, the rapper then premiered the Hiro Murai-directed music video which includes several references to significant events within past and recent history.
Shot in a fluid format, the music video balances well-choreographed moments amid scenes of brutal violence, including the use of guns, physical harm, and even suicide. Both the lyrics and visuals take a hard-hitting stance on violence and race relations within the U.S., while ultimately speaking to how they’re downplayed, romanticized, or even ignored.
Notably, “This is America” marks the artist’s first release since his 2016 album Awaken My Love, which featured the lead single “Redbone.” In light of the new track and its accompanying four-minute visual, we’ve compiled a list of ideas and concepts you may have missed.
First, re-watch the video below.
“This Is America” graphically depicts gun violence, with some claiming the video, in certain scenes, is trying to convey how firearms are treated with more respect than human lives. In the opening scenes, Glover shoots an unnamed person, execution style. In the following frame, the gun is carried off in a special cloth by a well-dressed man while the lifeless body is dragged away. Each time someone is shot, this same process takes place.
Similarly, the video points out the consistent presence of firearms when it comes to acts of terror. In addition to the aforementioned execution scene, the above shot, where members of a choir are singing, could be pointing to the 2015 Charleston Church Massacre. Here, the video potentially stresses that death by gun violence is not a one-off occurrence, more so when it comes to black Americans.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
During the Jim Crow era – which legally enforced racial segregation in the South – minstrel shows and blackface were not uncommon. Here, some have drawn parallels between Gambino’s movements and that of an old Jim Crow poster.
Following suit, the video includes references to several popular dances both in the U.S. and across Africa. The South African Gwara Gwara and Blocboy JB’s dance flag are included while people riot in the background. This could be read as how people happily adopt black culture but turn a blind eye to the violence that affects black people.
In the Bible, Revelations 6:8 (KJV) reads: “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and the name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” According to the scripture, the appearance of four horsemen signifies the oncoming apocalypse – with death represented by the final, white one. Unbeknownst to Gambino and his dancers, a white horse and a cop car appear in the corner of the frame.
Last but not least, Gambino also makes a reference to Jordan Peele’s Get Out. The film – which also featured Gambino’s song “Redbone” – notably introduced the theory of the “sunken place,” in which marginalized people are aware of the violence that surrounds them, yet are powerless to stop it.
Thanks to movies (like Jordan Peele's "Get Out") and music videos like this one, statements about our culture that need to be made are being made to millions of viewers in America. Hopefully, these issues are portrayed continuously until they're properly addressed. We need to be inundated with these important messages until the majority of people can no longer turn a blind eye.
It's a really good music video and song. However, far as my personal tastes goes it's not my cup of tea (I love old school donglover and haven't been a fan of his more recent stuff). That is beyond the fact that it's somewhat an uncomfortable video to watch... which is obviously intentional.
One thing I really liked was the kids in the background walking around looking at their phones.
The kids are looking at their phones, but it looks to me like they are looking at video in a song about police brutality.
On May 08 2018 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) just made an amazing music video that is extremely politically charged, from arguing that we treat guns with more dignity than human lives, to the fact that society and churches focus more on pop culture and money that they do about topics of importance, substance, and morality.
"Over the weekend, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino, took the internet by storm with the release of his new single “This is America.” First previewing the track on SNL, the rapper then premiered the Hiro Murai-directed music video which includes several references to significant events within past and recent history.
Shot in a fluid format, the music video balances well-choreographed moments amid scenes of brutal violence, including the use of guns, physical harm, and even suicide. Both the lyrics and visuals take a hard-hitting stance on violence and race relations within the U.S., while ultimately speaking to how they’re downplayed, romanticized, or even ignored.
Notably, “This is America” marks the artist’s first release since his 2016 album Awaken My Love, which featured the lead single “Redbone.” In light of the new track and its accompanying four-minute visual, we’ve compiled a list of ideas and concepts you may have missed.
First, re-watch the video below.
“This Is America” graphically depicts gun violence, with some claiming the video, in certain scenes, is trying to convey how firearms are treated with more respect than human lives. In the opening scenes, Glover shoots an unnamed person, execution style. In the following frame, the gun is carried off in a special cloth by a well-dressed man while the lifeless body is dragged away. Each time someone is shot, this same process takes place.
Similarly, the video points out the consistent presence of firearms when it comes to acts of terror. In addition to the aforementioned execution scene, the above shot, where members of a choir are singing, could be pointing to the 2015 Charleston Church Massacre. Here, the video potentially stresses that death by gun violence is not a one-off occurrence, more so when it comes to black Americans.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
During the Jim Crow era – which legally enforced racial segregation in the South – minstrel shows and blackface were not uncommon. Here, some have drawn parallels between Gambino’s movements and that of an old Jim Crow poster.
Following suit, the video includes references to several popular dances both in the U.S. and across Africa. The South African Gwara Gwara and Blocboy JB’s dance flag are included while people riot in the background. This could be read as how people happily adopt black culture but turn a blind eye to the violence that affects black people.
In the Bible, Revelations 6:8 (KJV) reads: “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and the name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” According to the scripture, the appearance of four horsemen signifies the oncoming apocalypse – with death represented by the final, white one. Unbeknownst to Gambino and his dancers, a white horse and a cop car appear in the corner of the frame.
Last but not least, Gambino also makes a reference to Jordan Peele’s Get Out. The film – which also featured Gambino’s song “Redbone” – notably introduced the theory of the “sunken place,” in which marginalized people are aware of the violence that surrounds them, yet are powerless to stop it.
Thanks to movies (like Jordan Peele's "Get Out") and music videos like this one, statements about our culture that need to be made are being made to millions of viewers in America. Hopefully, these issues are portrayed continuously until they're properly addressed. We need to be inundated with these important messages until the majority of people can no longer turn a blind eye.
It's mostly meh to me. There's some problems with the video as the article unintentionally highlights. It took almost all of the racial motivation and charging out of the Charleston shooting, and turned a terrorist attack committed by one of several white supremacists who have been committing these terrorist attacks into something about 'guns'. Of course that may just be a bad take from this person, but it's a popular one.
I think the best argument I've heard in favor of it's profoundness, compared it to Kubriks Clockwork Orange, and the Ludovico Technique. That the song/dance is supposed to be Beethoven and the ultraviolence, well the ultraviolence.
Where CG performed especially poorly was on the racial aspect of all this. Presuming the ultraviolence critique has anything to do with what he was actually going for. By not inverting the racial dynamics (shooting a white church choir for instance or having a white person commit the act) he basically pulled the punch. In video that's already seen as 'too much' it's one he shouldn't have pulled.
The idea in the piece I've noticed a lot of Black people taking issue with is that; lets say this video is indeed a statement on how White people ignore Black suffering but love for us to entertain them, even when that entertainment is borne out of the suffering they ignore.
CG took the approach that suggests more black bodies and violence against them is what white people have to see in order to trigger a conscious and do something. That also means that Black people have to watch it too, for what, the case isn't made by CG or others who do so (Shaun King) comes to mind.
To give an example, TI's video Warzone did a much better job imo, if by just inverting the racial dynamics of the situations that were it's contemporaries. Also the song is better imo.
It also closes with a quote that sums up the issue pretty well.
Nah I disagree with most of your criticism. It isn't just about how white people like black entertainment. It's also a criticism of the black people who embrace a kind of contemporary minstrelsy, and end up participating in the reinsciption of the racializing logics that they claim to protest. "Get that money, black man"
As for the critique that "white people (shouldn't) have to see it" I'm not sure what to make of it. You can't do much of anything about things you never see.
I mean my personal critique was that it was just a meh piece, but that's mostly a subjective personal opinion. I do think the minstrelsy was an important part of the commentary conveyed though and probably the best part of the whole performance artistically. The contemporary angle you mention while I think a powerful interpretation I'm not entirely sure it was quite so intentional or if it was, that it was received that way or that people receptive to that interpretation are trying to hear it from Gambino.
I hate interpreting art in general for a lot of reasons, not the least of which including things like artist intention vs audience interpretation and who gets to decide what.
I think the critique about 'white people needing to see it to do anything about it' I tried to preemptively address that with a video/quote from a while ago showing white people already know, and have known, the question is why are they so accepting of it. The answer isn't they haven't seen it, not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway.
Of course I'm more Stokely Carmichael than MLK when it comes to urging white people to ensure black people enjoy their constitutional rights alongside their white peers by turning endless calls for reform and acting right into actually making measurable improvements.
Like I mentioned though, I just don't think it was especially profound, or if it was, it was lost on most of it's audience. If it triggered deep insightful thoughts for people I can't argue with that though.
But while rappers turnt pundits are a thing, I'd like to submit Comrade J.Cole and his critique of capitalism and why it 'doesn't do it anymore'.
Now you are just having it both ways: "not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway." Oh really? After your post about how black people now supposedly "have" to watch Glover show black on black violence? It either works or it doesn't, but this vacillating back and forth about what people are watching or not, or what they know or not, is not an effective critique.
Donald Glover is definitely intentionally drawing attention to the counter-revolutionary potential of minstrelsy in black performance. He has remarked numerous times on feelings he has had performing for white audiences at the behest of white executives in ways that felt racially exploitative (in tv and music). Part of Donald's appeal has always been his ambiguous positioning between "black" and "white" cultures, which he has certainly exploited to some degree to his benefit, but it appears to be something that has always made him uneasy. Personally I think a lot of his art recently (music and his show Atlanta) offers a lot of potential for constructive cross-racial identification, particularly because it refuses to abide by the particularly racialized logics of more traditional "black entertainment," without falling into neoliberal platitudes about how "we are all just people."
It's not surprising that "it was lost on most of his audience," because it was targeting a lot of the people who supposedly don't get it. I certainly don't think that's an indictment of him. He'd rather not be as bad and as boring as J. Cole, who might be better understood, but only because he's operating at a much lower level.
On May 08 2018 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) just made an amazing music video that is extremely politically charged, from arguing that we treat guns with more dignity than human lives, to the fact that society and churches focus more on pop culture and money that they do about topics of importance, substance, and morality.
"Over the weekend, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino, took the internet by storm with the release of his new single “This is America.” First previewing the track on SNL, the rapper then premiered the Hiro Murai-directed music video which includes several references to significant events within past and recent history.
Shot in a fluid format, the music video balances well-choreographed moments amid scenes of brutal violence, including the use of guns, physical harm, and even suicide. Both the lyrics and visuals take a hard-hitting stance on violence and race relations within the U.S., while ultimately speaking to how they’re downplayed, romanticized, or even ignored.
Notably, “This is America” marks the artist’s first release since his 2016 album Awaken My Love, which featured the lead single “Redbone.” In light of the new track and its accompanying four-minute visual, we’ve compiled a list of ideas and concepts you may have missed.
First, re-watch the video below.
“This Is America” graphically depicts gun violence, with some claiming the video, in certain scenes, is trying to convey how firearms are treated with more respect than human lives. In the opening scenes, Glover shoots an unnamed person, execution style. In the following frame, the gun is carried off in a special cloth by a well-dressed man while the lifeless body is dragged away. Each time someone is shot, this same process takes place.
Similarly, the video points out the consistent presence of firearms when it comes to acts of terror. In addition to the aforementioned execution scene, the above shot, where members of a choir are singing, could be pointing to the 2015 Charleston Church Massacre. Here, the video potentially stresses that death by gun violence is not a one-off occurrence, more so when it comes to black Americans.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
During the Jim Crow era – which legally enforced racial segregation in the South – minstrel shows and blackface were not uncommon. Here, some have drawn parallels between Gambino’s movements and that of an old Jim Crow poster.
Following suit, the video includes references to several popular dances both in the U.S. and across Africa. The South African Gwara Gwara and Blocboy JB’s dance flag are included while people riot in the background. This could be read as how people happily adopt black culture but turn a blind eye to the violence that affects black people.
In the Bible, Revelations 6:8 (KJV) reads: “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and the name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” According to the scripture, the appearance of four horsemen signifies the oncoming apocalypse – with death represented by the final, white one. Unbeknownst to Gambino and his dancers, a white horse and a cop car appear in the corner of the frame.
Last but not least, Gambino also makes a reference to Jordan Peele’s Get Out. The film – which also featured Gambino’s song “Redbone” – notably introduced the theory of the “sunken place,” in which marginalized people are aware of the violence that surrounds them, yet are powerless to stop it.
Thanks to movies (like Jordan Peele's "Get Out") and music videos like this one, statements about our culture that need to be made are being made to millions of viewers in America. Hopefully, these issues are portrayed continuously until they're properly addressed. We need to be inundated with these important messages until the majority of people can no longer turn a blind eye.
It's mostly meh to me. There's some problems with the video as the article unintentionally highlights. It took almost all of the racial motivation and charging out of the Charleston shooting, and turned a terrorist attack committed by one of several white supremacists who have been committing these terrorist attacks into something about 'guns'. Of course that may just be a bad take from this person, but it's a popular one.
I think the best argument I've heard in favor of it's profoundness, compared it to Kubriks Clockwork Orange, and the Ludovico Technique. That the song/dance is supposed to be Beethoven and the ultraviolence, well the ultraviolence.
Where CG performed especially poorly was on the racial aspect of all this. Presuming the ultraviolence critique has anything to do with what he was actually going for. By not inverting the racial dynamics (shooting a white church choir for instance or having a white person commit the act) he basically pulled the punch. In video that's already seen as 'too much' it's one he shouldn't have pulled.
The idea in the piece I've noticed a lot of Black people taking issue with is that; lets say this video is indeed a statement on how White people ignore Black suffering but love for us to entertain them, even when that entertainment is borne out of the suffering they ignore.
CG took the approach that suggests more black bodies and violence against them is what white people have to see in order to trigger a conscious and do something. That also means that Black people have to watch it too, for what, the case isn't made by CG or others who do so (Shaun King) comes to mind.
To give an example, TI's video Warzone did a much better job imo, if by just inverting the racial dynamics of the situations that were it's contemporaries. Also the song is better imo.
It also closes with a quote that sums up the issue pretty well.
Nah I disagree with most of your criticism. It isn't just about how white people like black entertainment. It's also a criticism of the black people who embrace a kind of contemporary minstrelsy, and end up participating in the reinsciption of the racializing logics that they claim to protest. "Get that money, black man"
As for the critique that "white people (shouldn't) have to see it" I'm not sure what to make of it. You can't do much of anything about things you never see.
I mean my personal critique was that it was just a meh piece, but that's mostly a subjective personal opinion. I do think the minstrelsy was an important part of the commentary conveyed though and probably the best part of the whole performance artistically. The contemporary angle you mention while I think a powerful interpretation I'm not entirely sure it was quite so intentional or if it was, that it was received that way or that people receptive to that interpretation are trying to hear it from Gambino.
I hate interpreting art in general for a lot of reasons, not the least of which including things like artist intention vs audience interpretation and who gets to decide what.
I think the critique about 'white people needing to see it to do anything about it' I tried to preemptively address that with a video/quote from a while ago showing white people already know, and have known, the question is why are they so accepting of it. The answer isn't they haven't seen it, not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway.
Of course I'm more Stokely Carmichael than MLK when it comes to urging white people to ensure black people enjoy their constitutional rights alongside their white peers by turning endless calls for reform and acting right into actually making measurable improvements.
Like I mentioned though, I just don't think it was especially profound, or if it was, it was lost on most of it's audience. If it triggered deep insightful thoughts for people I can't argue with that though.
But while rappers turnt pundits are a thing, I'd like to submit Comrade J.Cole and his critique of capitalism and why it 'doesn't do it anymore'.
Now you are just having it both ways: "not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway." Oh really? After your post about how black people now supposedly "have" to watch Glover show black on black violence? It either works or it doesn't, but this vacillating back and forth about what people are watching or not, or what they know or not, is not an effective critique.
Donald Glover is definitely intentionally drawing attention to the counter-revolutionary potential of minstrelsy in black performance. He has remarked numerous times on feelings he has had performing for white audiences at the behest of white executives in ways that felt racially exploitative (in tv and music). Part of Donald's appeal has always been his ambiguous positioning between "black" and "white" cultures, which he has certainly exploited to some degree to his benefit, but it appears to be something that has always made him uneasy. Personally I think a lot of his art recently (music and his show Atlanta) offers a lot of potential for constructive cross-racial identification, particularly because it refuses to abide by the particularly racialized logics of more traditional "black entertainment," without falling into neoliberal platitudes about how "we are all just people."
It's not surprising that "it was lost on most of his audience," because it was targeting a lot of the people who supposedly don't get it. I certainly don't think that's an indictment of him. He'd rather not be as bad and as boring as J. Cole, who might be better understood, but only because he's operating at a much lower level.
I'm not as invested in this particular opinion as you've given it thought so forgive me if I don't show my usual vigor in disagreement. Plus I only watched it a couple times, first just as entertainment than a couple times after reading some critiques, so I haven't analyzed it that deeply myself. That's why I used the framing of someone else's critique to articulate what I meant regarding some of the first rounds of takeaways from the video. The analysis originally posted with it here also didn't articulate the minstrel aspect much beyond mentioning it was referenced.
Your first point seems to be a bit of a miscommunication. My issue there was that we (black people) relive that violence daily, not the stylized artistic stuff, the real stuff. White people aren't forced to engage with what that is by way of DG's depiction the way black people are. That's why I suggested TI's video where the races are reversed hits harder in that aspect, and imo would have made the statement more powerful.
This excerpt from a take in The New Yorker I think synthesizes much of our perspectives
That same year, the FX television series “Atlanta” premièred. With its crystalline fables of ambition and defeat, of the indignities of the social life of black millennials, Glover proved that he possessed an uncanny insight into what it is to be young and black and uncertain. Suddenly, and quite forcefully, Glover was being called the lodestar of a consciousness, the most elegant translator of his generation’s id. Rather than simply accepting the designation and becoming a spokesman, Glover the musician has found ways to point to the absurdity of the celebrity worship that attends his fame. In his new video, he is the executor of carnage and chaos. “This Is America” is currently being analyzed on Twitter as if it were the Rosetta Stone. The video has already been rapturously described as a powerful rally cry against gun violence, a powerful portrait of black-American existentialism, a powerful indictment of a culture that circulates videos of black children dying as easily as it does videos of black children dancing in parking lots. It is those things, but it also a fundamentally ambiguous document. The truth is that this video, and what it suggests about its artist, is very difficult. A lot of black people hate it. Glover forces us to relive public traumas and barely gives us a second to breathe before he forces us to dance. There is an inescapable disdain sewn into the fabric of “This Is America.” The very fact that the dance scenes are already being chopped into fun little gifs online, divorcing them from the video’s brutality, only serves to prove his point.
On May 08 2018 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) just made an amazing music video that is extremely politically charged, from arguing that we treat guns with more dignity than human lives, to the fact that society and churches focus more on pop culture and money that they do about topics of importance, substance, and morality.
"Over the weekend, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino, took the internet by storm with the release of his new single “This is America.” First previewing the track on SNL, the rapper then premiered the Hiro Murai-directed music video which includes several references to significant events within past and recent history.
Shot in a fluid format, the music video balances well-choreographed moments amid scenes of brutal violence, including the use of guns, physical harm, and even suicide. Both the lyrics and visuals take a hard-hitting stance on violence and race relations within the U.S., while ultimately speaking to how they’re downplayed, romanticized, or even ignored.
Notably, “This is America” marks the artist’s first release since his 2016 album Awaken My Love, which featured the lead single “Redbone.” In light of the new track and its accompanying four-minute visual, we’ve compiled a list of ideas and concepts you may have missed.
First, re-watch the video below.
“This Is America” graphically depicts gun violence, with some claiming the video, in certain scenes, is trying to convey how firearms are treated with more respect than human lives. In the opening scenes, Glover shoots an unnamed person, execution style. In the following frame, the gun is carried off in a special cloth by a well-dressed man while the lifeless body is dragged away. Each time someone is shot, this same process takes place.
Similarly, the video points out the consistent presence of firearms when it comes to acts of terror. In addition to the aforementioned execution scene, the above shot, where members of a choir are singing, could be pointing to the 2015 Charleston Church Massacre. Here, the video potentially stresses that death by gun violence is not a one-off occurrence, more so when it comes to black Americans.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
During the Jim Crow era – which legally enforced racial segregation in the South – minstrel shows and blackface were not uncommon. Here, some have drawn parallels between Gambino’s movements and that of an old Jim Crow poster.
Following suit, the video includes references to several popular dances both in the U.S. and across Africa. The South African Gwara Gwara and Blocboy JB’s dance flag are included while people riot in the background. This could be read as how people happily adopt black culture but turn a blind eye to the violence that affects black people.
In the Bible, Revelations 6:8 (KJV) reads: “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and the name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” According to the scripture, the appearance of four horsemen signifies the oncoming apocalypse – with death represented by the final, white one. Unbeknownst to Gambino and his dancers, a white horse and a cop car appear in the corner of the frame.
Last but not least, Gambino also makes a reference to Jordan Peele’s Get Out. The film – which also featured Gambino’s song “Redbone” – notably introduced the theory of the “sunken place,” in which marginalized people are aware of the violence that surrounds them, yet are powerless to stop it.
Thanks to movies (like Jordan Peele's "Get Out") and music videos like this one, statements about our culture that need to be made are being made to millions of viewers in America. Hopefully, these issues are portrayed continuously until they're properly addressed. We need to be inundated with these important messages until the majority of people can no longer turn a blind eye.
It's mostly meh to me. There's some problems with the video as the article unintentionally highlights. It took almost all of the racial motivation and charging out of the Charleston shooting, and turned a terrorist attack committed by one of several white supremacists who have been committing these terrorist attacks into something about 'guns'. Of course that may just be a bad take from this person, but it's a popular one.
I think the best argument I've heard in favor of it's profoundness, compared it to Kubriks Clockwork Orange, and the Ludovico Technique. That the song/dance is supposed to be Beethoven and the ultraviolence, well the ultraviolence.
Where CG performed especially poorly was on the racial aspect of all this. Presuming the ultraviolence critique has anything to do with what he was actually going for. By not inverting the racial dynamics (shooting a white church choir for instance or having a white person commit the act) he basically pulled the punch. In video that's already seen as 'too much' it's one he shouldn't have pulled.
The idea in the piece I've noticed a lot of Black people taking issue with is that; lets say this video is indeed a statement on how White people ignore Black suffering but love for us to entertain them, even when that entertainment is borne out of the suffering they ignore.
CG took the approach that suggests more black bodies and violence against them is what white people have to see in order to trigger a conscious and do something. That also means that Black people have to watch it too, for what, the case isn't made by CG or others who do so (Shaun King) comes to mind.
To give an example, TI's video Warzone did a much better job imo, if by just inverting the racial dynamics of the situations that were it's contemporaries. Also the song is better imo.
It also closes with a quote that sums up the issue pretty well.
Nah I disagree with most of your criticism. It isn't just about how white people like black entertainment. It's also a criticism of the black people who embrace a kind of contemporary minstrelsy, and end up participating in the reinsciption of the racializing logics that they claim to protest. "Get that money, black man"
As for the critique that "white people (shouldn't) have to see it" I'm not sure what to make of it. You can't do much of anything about things you never see.
I mean my personal critique was that it was just a meh piece, but that's mostly a subjective personal opinion. I do think the minstrelsy was an important part of the commentary conveyed though and probably the best part of the whole performance artistically. The contemporary angle you mention while I think a powerful interpretation I'm not entirely sure it was quite so intentional or if it was, that it was received that way or that people receptive to that interpretation are trying to hear it from Gambino.
I hate interpreting art in general for a lot of reasons, not the least of which including things like artist intention vs audience interpretation and who gets to decide what.
I think the critique about 'white people needing to see it to do anything about it' I tried to preemptively address that with a video/quote from a while ago showing white people already know, and have known, the question is why are they so accepting of it. The answer isn't they haven't seen it, not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway.
Of course I'm more Stokely Carmichael than MLK when it comes to urging white people to ensure black people enjoy their constitutional rights alongside their white peers by turning endless calls for reform and acting right into actually making measurable improvements.
Like I mentioned though, I just don't think it was especially profound, or if it was, it was lost on most of it's audience. If it triggered deep insightful thoughts for people I can't argue with that though.
But while rappers turnt pundits are a thing, I'd like to submit Comrade J.Cole and his critique of capitalism and why it 'doesn't do it anymore'.
Now you are just having it both ways: "not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway." Oh really? After your post about how black people now supposedly "have" to watch Glover show black on black violence? It either works or it doesn't, but this vacillating back and forth about what people are watching or not, or what they know or not, is not an effective critique.
Donald Glover is definitely intentionally drawing attention to the counter-revolutionary potential of minstrelsy in black performance. He has remarked numerous times on feelings he has had performing for white audiences at the behest of white executives in ways that felt racially exploitative (in tv and music). Part of Donald's appeal has always been his ambiguous positioning between "black" and "white" cultures, which he has certainly exploited to some degree to his benefit, but it appears to be something that has always made him uneasy. Personally I think a lot of his art recently (music and his show Atlanta) offers a lot of potential for constructive cross-racial identification, particularly because it refuses to abide by the particularly racialized logics of more traditional "black entertainment," without falling into neoliberal platitudes about how "we are all just people."
It's not surprising that "it was lost on most of his audience," because it was targeting a lot of the people who supposedly don't get it. I certainly don't think that's an indictment of him. He'd rather not be as bad and as boring as J. Cole, who might be better understood, but only because he's operating at a much lower level.
I'm not as invested in this particular opinion as you've given it thought so forgive me if I don't show my usual vigor in disagreement. Plus I only watched it a couple times, first just as entertainment than a couple times after reading some critiques, so I haven't analyzed it that deeply myself. That's why I used the framing of someone else's critique to articulate what I meant regarding some of the first rounds of takeaways from the video. The analysis originally posted with it here also didn't articulate the minstrel aspect much beyond mentioning it was referenced.
Your first point seems to be a bit of a miscommunication. My issue there was that we (black people) relive that violence daily, not the stylized artistic stuff, the real stuff. White people aren't forced to engage with what that is by way of DG's depiction the way black people are. That's why I suggested TI's video where the races are reversed hits harder in that aspect, and imo would have made the statement more powerful.
This excerpt from a take in The New Yorker I think synthesizes much of our perspectives
That same year, the FX television series “Atlanta” premièred. With its crystalline fables of ambition and defeat, of the indignities of the social life of black millennials, Glover proved that he possessed an uncanny insight into what it is to be young and black and uncertain. Suddenly, and quite forcefully, Glover was being called the lodestar of a consciousness, the most elegant translator of his generation’s id. Rather than simply accepting the designation and becoming a spokesman, Glover the musician has found ways to point to the absurdity of the celebrity worship that attends his fame. In his new video, he is the executor of carnage and chaos. “This Is America” is currently being analyzed on Twitter as if it were the Rosetta Stone. The video has already been rapturously described as a powerful rally cry against gun violence, a powerful portrait of black-American existentialism, a powerful indictment of a culture that circulates videos of black children dying as easily as it does videos of black children dancing in parking lots. It is those things, but it also a fundamentally ambiguous document. The truth is that this video, and what it suggests about its artist, is very difficult. A lot of black people hate it. Glover forces us to relive public traumas and barely gives us a second to breathe before he forces us to dance. There is an inescapable disdain sewn into the fabric of “This Is America.” The very fact that the dance scenes are already being chopped into fun little gifs online, divorcing them from the video’s brutality, only serves to prove his point.
He couldn't have reversed the race of the choir without vitiating his critique of black churches and their role in the reproduction of (capitalist, racist, violent) American ideology. "Grandma (the churchgoer) told me / Get your money, black man"
Black churches are interesting in themselves as alternative family structures in black communities ravaged by poverty, disparate law enforcement, prisons, drugs, and violence. Grandma is not just a doting matriarch in a lot of families, but a primary caregiver.
[S]ince the dominant view holds prideful self-respect as the very essence of healthy African American identity, it also considers such identity to be fundamentally weakened wherever masculinity appears to be compromised. While this fact is rarely articulated, its influence is nonetheless real and pervasive. Its primary effect is that all debates over and claims to "authentic" African-American identity are largely animated by a profound anxiety about the status specifically of African-American masculinity
[. . .]
There remains the question, what is a race man? Clearly, I think that it is a concept that encompasses all of the above, but is also much more than that. For a century, the figure of the race man has haunted black political and cultural thought, and this book seeks to conduct a feminist interrogation of this theme and of other definitions of black masculinity at work in American culture.
In 1945, in Black Metropolis, St. Clair Drake and Horace Cayton attempted to account for the emergence of the idea of a race man. "Race consciousness," they asserted, "is not the work of 'agitators,' or 'subversive influences'--it is forced upon Negroes by the very fact of their separate-subordinate status in American life." Since emancipation, Drake and Cayton argue, black people have had to prove, actively and consistently, that they were not the inferior beings that their status as second-class citizens declared them to be: hence an aggressive demonstration of their superiority in some field of achievement, either individually or collectively, was what established race pride: "the success of one Negro" was interpreted as "the success of all." The result of the pursuit of "race consciousness, race pride, and race solidarity" was the emergence of particular social types, among which was the Race Man. Drake and Cayton add this cautionary note, however: "People try to draw a line between 'sincere Race Leaders' and those Race Men who are always clamoring everything for the race, just for the glory of being known." The issue of acting as a race man for particular audiences is still relevant in a society where the mass media all too eagerly assign to a few carefully chosen voices the representation of the racialized many, and the chosen rarely reject their designation and transient moment of glory. What a race man signifies for the white segments of our society is not necessarily how a race man is defined for various black constituencies.
While Drake and Cayton effectively situate the subtleties and complexities produced by and through processes of racialization in the United States, they, along with most contemporary black male intellectuals, take for granted the gendering at work in the other half of the concept "race man"--the part that is limited to man. What we have inherited from them and from others is a rarely questioned notion of masculinity as it is connected to ideas of race and nation.
I think the critique about 'white people needing to see it to do anything about it' I tried to preemptively address that with a video/quote from a while ago showing white people already know, and have known, the question is why are they so accepting of it. The answer isn't they haven't seen it, not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway.
On this subject, I've always thought Chris Rock said it best in one of his standup specials. It went something like this:
"You wanna know what it's like to be black in America? You already do. Lemme put it like this: not one white person in this audience would trade places with me if they could, and I'm rich."
Now, obviously he didn't survey the room. But the fact that people would have to think about it in the first place pretty much proves the point.
On May 08 2018 00:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) just made an amazing music video that is extremely politically charged, from arguing that we treat guns with more dignity than human lives, to the fact that society and churches focus more on pop culture and money that they do about topics of importance, substance, and morality.
"Over the weekend, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino, took the internet by storm with the release of his new single “This is America.” First previewing the track on SNL, the rapper then premiered the Hiro Murai-directed music video which includes several references to significant events within past and recent history.
Shot in a fluid format, the music video balances well-choreographed moments amid scenes of brutal violence, including the use of guns, physical harm, and even suicide. Both the lyrics and visuals take a hard-hitting stance on violence and race relations within the U.S., while ultimately speaking to how they’re downplayed, romanticized, or even ignored.
Notably, “This is America” marks the artist’s first release since his 2016 album Awaken My Love, which featured the lead single “Redbone.” In light of the new track and its accompanying four-minute visual, we’ve compiled a list of ideas and concepts you may have missed.
First, re-watch the video below.
“This Is America” graphically depicts gun violence, with some claiming the video, in certain scenes, is trying to convey how firearms are treated with more respect than human lives. In the opening scenes, Glover shoots an unnamed person, execution style. In the following frame, the gun is carried off in a special cloth by a well-dressed man while the lifeless body is dragged away. Each time someone is shot, this same process takes place.
Similarly, the video points out the consistent presence of firearms when it comes to acts of terror. In addition to the aforementioned execution scene, the above shot, where members of a choir are singing, could be pointing to the 2015 Charleston Church Massacre. Here, the video potentially stresses that death by gun violence is not a one-off occurrence, more so when it comes to black Americans.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
During the Jim Crow era – which legally enforced racial segregation in the South – minstrel shows and blackface were not uncommon. Here, some have drawn parallels between Gambino’s movements and that of an old Jim Crow poster.
Following suit, the video includes references to several popular dances both in the U.S. and across Africa. The South African Gwara Gwara and Blocboy JB’s dance flag are included while people riot in the background. This could be read as how people happily adopt black culture but turn a blind eye to the violence that affects black people.
In the Bible, Revelations 6:8 (KJV) reads: “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and the name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” According to the scripture, the appearance of four horsemen signifies the oncoming apocalypse – with death represented by the final, white one. Unbeknownst to Gambino and his dancers, a white horse and a cop car appear in the corner of the frame.
Last but not least, Gambino also makes a reference to Jordan Peele’s Get Out. The film – which also featured Gambino’s song “Redbone” – notably introduced the theory of the “sunken place,” in which marginalized people are aware of the violence that surrounds them, yet are powerless to stop it.
Thanks to movies (like Jordan Peele's "Get Out") and music videos like this one, statements about our culture that need to be made are being made to millions of viewers in America. Hopefully, these issues are portrayed continuously until they're properly addressed. We need to be inundated with these important messages until the majority of people can no longer turn a blind eye.
It's mostly meh to me. There's some problems with the video as the article unintentionally highlights. It took almost all of the racial motivation and charging out of the Charleston shooting, and turned a terrorist attack committed by one of several white supremacists who have been committing these terrorist attacks into something about 'guns'. Of course that may just be a bad take from this person, but it's a popular one.
I think the best argument I've heard in favor of it's profoundness, compared it to Kubriks Clockwork Orange, and the Ludovico Technique. That the song/dance is supposed to be Beethoven and the ultraviolence, well the ultraviolence.
Where CG performed especially poorly was on the racial aspect of all this. Presuming the ultraviolence critique has anything to do with what he was actually going for. By not inverting the racial dynamics (shooting a white church choir for instance or having a white person commit the act) he basically pulled the punch. In video that's already seen as 'too much' it's one he shouldn't have pulled.
The idea in the piece I've noticed a lot of Black people taking issue with is that; lets say this video is indeed a statement on how White people ignore Black suffering but love for us to entertain them, even when that entertainment is borne out of the suffering they ignore.
CG took the approach that suggests more black bodies and violence against them is what white people have to see in order to trigger a conscious and do something. That also means that Black people have to watch it too, for what, the case isn't made by CG or others who do so (Shaun King) comes to mind.
To give an example, TI's video Warzone did a much better job imo, if by just inverting the racial dynamics of the situations that were it's contemporaries. Also the song is better imo.
It also closes with a quote that sums up the issue pretty well.
Nah I disagree with most of your criticism. It isn't just about how white people like black entertainment. It's also a criticism of the black people who embrace a kind of contemporary minstrelsy, and end up participating in the reinsciption of the racializing logics that they claim to protest. "Get that money, black man"
As for the critique that "white people (shouldn't) have to see it" I'm not sure what to make of it. You can't do much of anything about things you never see.
I mean my personal critique was that it was just a meh piece, but that's mostly a subjective personal opinion. I do think the minstrelsy was an important part of the commentary conveyed though and probably the best part of the whole performance artistically. The contemporary angle you mention while I think a powerful interpretation I'm not entirely sure it was quite so intentional or if it was, that it was received that way or that people receptive to that interpretation are trying to hear it from Gambino.
I hate interpreting art in general for a lot of reasons, not the least of which including things like artist intention vs audience interpretation and who gets to decide what.
I think the critique about 'white people needing to see it to do anything about it' I tried to preemptively address that with a video/quote from a while ago showing white people already know, and have known, the question is why are they so accepting of it. The answer isn't they haven't seen it, not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway.
Of course I'm more Stokely Carmichael than MLK when it comes to urging white people to ensure black people enjoy their constitutional rights alongside their white peers by turning endless calls for reform and acting right into actually making measurable improvements.
Like I mentioned though, I just don't think it was especially profound, or if it was, it was lost on most of it's audience. If it triggered deep insightful thoughts for people I can't argue with that though.
But while rappers turnt pundits are a thing, I'd like to submit Comrade J.Cole and his critique of capitalism and why it 'doesn't do it anymore'.
Now you are just having it both ways: "not that I think this presented it in a way that forced them to anyway." Oh really? After your post about how black people now supposedly "have" to watch Glover show black on black violence? It either works or it doesn't, but this vacillating back and forth about what people are watching or not, or what they know or not, is not an effective critique.
Donald Glover is definitely intentionally drawing attention to the counter-revolutionary potential of minstrelsy in black performance. He has remarked numerous times on feelings he has had performing for white audiences at the behest of white executives in ways that felt racially exploitative (in tv and music). Part of Donald's appeal has always been his ambiguous positioning between "black" and "white" cultures, which he has certainly exploited to some degree to his benefit, but it appears to be something that has always made him uneasy. Personally I think a lot of his art recently (music and his show Atlanta) offers a lot of potential for constructive cross-racial identification, particularly because it refuses to abide by the particularly racialized logics of more traditional "black entertainment," without falling into neoliberal platitudes about how "we are all just people."
It's not surprising that "it was lost on most of his audience," because it was targeting a lot of the people who supposedly don't get it. I certainly don't think that's an indictment of him. He'd rather not be as bad and as boring as J. Cole, who might be better understood, but only because he's operating at a much lower level.
I'm not as invested in this particular opinion as you've given it thought so forgive me if I don't show my usual vigor in disagreement. Plus I only watched it a couple times, first just as entertainment than a couple times after reading some critiques, so I haven't analyzed it that deeply myself. That's why I used the framing of someone else's critique to articulate what I meant regarding some of the first rounds of takeaways from the video. The analysis originally posted with it here also didn't articulate the minstrel aspect much beyond mentioning it was referenced.
Your first point seems to be a bit of a miscommunication. My issue there was that we (black people) relive that violence daily, not the stylized artistic stuff, the real stuff. White people aren't forced to engage with what that is by way of DG's depiction the way black people are. That's why I suggested TI's video where the races are reversed hits harder in that aspect, and imo would have made the statement more powerful.
This excerpt from a take in The New Yorker I think synthesizes much of our perspectives
That same year, the FX television series “Atlanta” premièred. With its crystalline fables of ambition and defeat, of the indignities of the social life of black millennials, Glover proved that he possessed an uncanny insight into what it is to be young and black and uncertain. Suddenly, and quite forcefully, Glover was being called the lodestar of a consciousness, the most elegant translator of his generation’s id. Rather than simply accepting the designation and becoming a spokesman, Glover the musician has found ways to point to the absurdity of the celebrity worship that attends his fame. In his new video, he is the executor of carnage and chaos. “This Is America” is currently being analyzed on Twitter as if it were the Rosetta Stone. The video has already been rapturously described as a powerful rally cry against gun violence, a powerful portrait of black-American existentialism, a powerful indictment of a culture that circulates videos of black children dying as easily as it does videos of black children dancing in parking lots. It is those things, but it also a fundamentally ambiguous document. The truth is that this video, and what it suggests about its artist, is very difficult. A lot of black people hate it. Glover forces us to relive public traumas and barely gives us a second to breathe before he forces us to dance. There is an inescapable disdain sewn into the fabric of “This Is America.” The very fact that the dance scenes are already being chopped into fun little gifs online, divorcing them from the video’s brutality, only serves to prove his point.
He couldn't have reversed the race of the choir without vitiating his critique of black churches and their central role in the reproduction of (capitalist, racist, violent) American ideology. "Grandma (the churchgoer) told me / Get your money, black man"
Black churches are interesting in themselves as alternative family structures in black communities ravaged by poverty, disparate law enforcement, prisons, drugs, and violence. Grandma is not just a doting matriarch in a lot of families, but a primary caregiver.
I hadn't seen that particular interpretation and I would agree that it would be near impossible to get that message from it if they were reversed. I can agree that is a biting critique and it's reasonable to think it was intentional, still attached to it not reaching much of anyone or even it's target audience with that though.
Is this a take you've seen elsewhere as well or something you picked up on yourself? Since we started this I've read a few different takes and none of the major corporate outlets picked up on that and I haven't seen it in a few of the prominent Black intellectuals of any political stripe yet. I haven't done a comprehensive look though so it's possible I'm just not as tuned into the social circles where your take is common. But I find it a good take and if not somehow just coincidental makes me think more highly of the video in general.
On May 08 2018 15:31 IgnE wrote: I don't know if/where I saw it. I think DPB mentioned churches too, though, saying they focus more on pop culture and money.
He sure did, and looking over the article it did mention it as well.
Notably before their death, the choir repeatedly sings, “Grandma told me/Get your money black man,” which has been attributed to religion’s encouragement of material obsession.
I'm not sure I like the clear reference to the terrorist attack and the more subtly articulated critique juxtaposed on top of each other, but I can get it now. There's a lot there and the general critique applies equally to black and non-black churches, but the whole self-destructive aspect of the critique hasn't been fleshed out as you did elsewhere to my knowledge.
I'm not sure who that critique is for though. As in who is he expecting to hear/see it and think "yeah, he's right. The church, while indispensable in many ways in surviving slavery and segregation it's also been an instrumental tool in a system of oppression for black communities. Harsher still that it's being perpetuated by the very people we look towards for guidance and often the matriarch of the family unit".
A powerful and poignant critique, one my previously existing distrust of the church makes easy to recognize and appreciate, and formally concede that appears to be intentional if still a bit obtuse. Art is allowed to be obtuse and make me angry, sad, or whatever. He doesn't want to be 'a voice of a generation' and so it's not fair for me to think his art should speak to all the things I want the way I want them (to the degree they are reflected in 'the generation').
Makes me wonder about art (like this anyway) though, is it like a joke or the opposite in how 'explaining it' affects the observer/material*?
EPT
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