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Norway28689 Posts
On July 22 2019 05:42 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 05:28 Nebuchad wrote:On July 22 2019 05:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 04:57 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
JC I would let it go. You won't get an acceptable response from GH. KwarK has spoken for him and that should all but settle it. People know where GH, you, KwarK, and others stand. You're wasting valuable APM on this. For the sake of the thread, can we move on? If there needs to be, KwarK, can you allow the creation of a Political Philosophy thread where the majority of this can be held and this thread can be about policies and other issues in the US? There is a reason he hasn't. The reason is that you're being insufferable. I'm getting second hand embarrassment from a political mile away. I'm not sure why you find directness so insufferable. Still no has said I have said anything untrue. Just that I'm interrupting what he says wrong, because I am reading the words he writes and not what he means.
Please find a direct quote of GH claiming that he wants all Israelis to die, if you are going to claim that 'you are reading the words he writes and not what he means'.
Everyone interprets all posts in some manner. If not, we'd have to write actual dissertations. Despite being very fond of writing, I absolutely hated writing my master thesis, specifically because I had to write it in such a way that my own voice was absent, so it could be read neutrally by a neutral reader. (And to the degree I did have a voice of my own, I would specify that it is possible that my interpretations of my findings are colored by holding previous opinion x.) Sometimes, it would mean that I would have to spend 2 pages writing something that probably could have been articulated in 2 paragraphs, just to make sure there was only one way to interpret what I was saying.
The problem here is that you consistently try to interpret his words in the worst possible imaginable way. It is incredibly grating at this point. Is it true that some other posters have been subject to the same mistreatment by other posters on this site? Yes. Is that an excuse for you doing the same? No. And if it was just an occasional thing you did, whatever. But you are for some reason incapable of not grossly misinterpreting him, and also incapable of not shutting up about it.
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On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life.
Fair enough. Back to you regularly scheduled program. (PS, I've read or heard of some of those socialist thinkers a long time ago).
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this? Looks to me to be the mother of all backseat moderating by JimmiC with a dash of right-wing "you're basically Hitler" (which is "you're basically Stalin" for those unfamiliar). Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. I'm working on it, but after 2 years of non-stop trump tweets, Russia, and Mueller rumors that "this will sink Trump" I had my fill and was a little desperate for anything else to become the default (since I had been forced to either have JimmiC in my blog or have it shut down). Maybe I've soured people like JimmiC and z2c on this stuff but I think several others are wondering why they hadn't thought about this stuff like this and even if they disagree with the substance and style appreciate the perspective. Ironically you'll find the reeducation that is step 1 of z2c plans is essentially my first step too. Perhaps you could help us reconcile that one thing (next time it comes up if this conversation has passed for now). You have to concede, other than a couple interruptions by the prosecution, the discourse has been marginally better as of late, no?
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On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life.
Seems pretty silly to expect people to read probably hundreds of pages of dense knowledge when we can't even post an article without an explanation.
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United States42971 Posts
In other current events news Sweden has rebuffed Donald Trump's personal intervention to lobby for the bail of A dollar sign AP Rocky, including a personal guarantee to be held accountable for the bail bond. Among the reasons Sweden offered was that their justice system does not have bail. Under any other presidency this would be considered a low point. In this presidency it's just another day. This is the kind of public humiliation that you'd expect the US ambassador to Sweden to prevent but there hasn't been one since Trump recalled the Obama appointed one in his first week in office.
Somehow following the phone call in which the Swedish Prime Minister explained all this Trump tweeted that he'd guaranteed the bail bond of Mr. Rocky. This is going to be Merkel spending an entire day failing to get Trump to understand that they couldn't make a trade deal all over again.
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On July 22 2019 08:52 KwarK wrote:
In other current events news Sweden has rebuffed Donald Trump's personal intervention to lobby for the bail of A dollar sign AP Rocky, including a personal guarantee to be held accountable for the bail bond. Among the reasons Sweden offered was that their justice system does not have bail. Under any other presidency this would be considered a low point. In this presidency it's just another day.
What? I feel like I went to be at the wrong time and reddit has ran away with a meme while I was sleeping.
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On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it.
I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel.
You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold.
Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out?
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On July 22 2019 08:52 KwarK wrote:
In other current events news Sweden has rebuffed Donald Trump's personal intervention to lobby for the bail of A dollar sign AP Rocky, including a personal guarantee to be held accountable for the bail bond. Among the reasons Sweden offered was that their justice system does not have bail. Under any other presidency this would be considered a low point. In this presidency it's just another day. This is the kind of public humiliation that you'd expect the US ambassador to Sweden to prevent but there hasn't been one since Trump recalled the Obama appointed one in his first week in office.
Somehow following the phone call in which the Swedish Prime Minister explained all this Trump tweeted that he'd guaranteed the bail bond of Mr. Rocky. This is going to be Merkel spending an entire day failing to get Trump to understand that they couldn't make a trade deal all over again.
I'm torn, I really want to talk about how this is an example of both white club's influence outside of white skin while simultaneously being "outreach to black voters" and not take the bait on how stupid Trump is but... I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure whether it's harder to believe this is a 4d chess strategy or that he's able to put his own pants on in the morning.
Looking at this excerpt from CBS on the situation regarding A$AP Rocky and Trump's call to the PM might have given me an aneurysm.
Mr. Trump later tweeted Friday afternoon that he had spoken with West about Rocky's situation.
"Just spoke to @KanyeWest about his friend A$AP Rocky's incarceration. I will be calling the very talented Prime Minister of Sweden to see what we can do about helping A$AP Rocky. So many people would like to see this quickly resolved!" Mr. Trump wrote.
Kardashian West tweeted her gratitude to Mr. Trump, his son-in-law Jared Kushner, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for intervening on Rocky's behalf Thursday.
"Thank you @realDonaldTrump , @SecPompeo, Jared Kushner & everyone involved with the efforts to Free A$AP Rocky & his two friends. Your commitment to justice reform is so appreciated 🙏 [fingers crossed emoji]," Kardashian West wrote.
Kardashian West has ties to the White House thanks to her advocacy regarding criminal justice issues. She was a driving force behind the commutation of Alice Johnson and recently returned to the White House to speak at an event promoting the hiring of prisoners released early under the First Step Act, the criminal justice reform law Mr. Trump signed into law in December.
www.cbsnews.com
I wish I could resurrect Carlin and Russert and just hand them this and tell them, "sooo this is what we've been up to since you've been gone, te-he-he" then get them unlimited access to anyone to ask them anything.
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On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out?
JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas.
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On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas.
It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much.
There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar.
1. X sucks
2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it
3. Can't, Congress
4. Gotta vote for better people
5. Gotta beat the the other party more
6. That sucks
7. Go back to 1
I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable.
Z2C has added, paraphrasing:
"6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)"
That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now.
Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo.
Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on.
If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address.
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On July 22 2019 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 08:52 KwarK wrote:
In other current events news Sweden has rebuffed Donald Trump's personal intervention to lobby for the bail of A dollar sign AP Rocky, including a personal guarantee to be held accountable for the bail bond. Among the reasons Sweden offered was that their justice system does not have bail. Under any other presidency this would be considered a low point. In this presidency it's just another day. This is the kind of public humiliation that you'd expect the US ambassador to Sweden to prevent but there hasn't been one since Trump recalled the Obama appointed one in his first week in office.
Somehow following the phone call in which the Swedish Prime Minister explained all this Trump tweeted that he'd guaranteed the bail bond of Mr. Rocky. This is going to be Merkel spending an entire day failing to get Trump to understand that they couldn't make a trade deal all over again. I'm torn, I really want to talk about how this is an example of both white club's influence outside of white skin while simultaneously being "outreach to black voters" and not take the bait on how stupid Trump is but... I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure whether it's harder to believe this is a 4d chess strategy or that he's able to put his own pants on in the morning. Looking at this excerpt from CBS on the situation regarding A$AP Rocky and Trump's call to the PM might have given me an aneurysm. Show nested quote +Mr. Trump later tweeted Friday afternoon that he had spoken with West about Rocky's situation.
"Just spoke to @KanyeWest about his friend A$AP Rocky's incarceration. I will be calling the very talented Prime Minister of Sweden to see what we can do about helping A$AP Rocky. So many people would like to see this quickly resolved!" Mr. Trump wrote.
Kardashian West tweeted her gratitude to Mr. Trump, his son-in-law Jared Kushner, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for intervening on Rocky's behalf Thursday.
"Thank you @realDonaldTrump , @SecPompeo, Jared Kushner & everyone involved with the efforts to Free A$AP Rocky & his two friends. Your commitment to justice reform is so appreciated 🙏 [fingers crossed emoji]," Kardashian West wrote.
Kardashian West has ties to the White House thanks to her advocacy regarding criminal justice issues. She was a driving force behind the commutation of Alice Johnson and recently returned to the White House to speak at an event promoting the hiring of prisoners released early under the First Step Act, the criminal justice reform law Mr. Trump signed into law in December. www.cbsnews.comI wish I could resurrect Carlin and Russert and just hand them this and tell them, "sooo this is what we've been up to since you've been gone, te-he-he" then get them unlimited access to anyone to ask them anything.
From a different perspective: It has been highly amusing to me to read various Swedish sources / forums that one would normally not expect to advocate for lighter punishments or to be particularly forgiving of a black man suspected of violent crime be extremely upset over the fact that someone is in jail pending investigation.
Of course then one realizes that the alleged victim is an Afghan war refuge and the alleged perpetrator is a rich American and everything makes sense again.
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On July 22 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas. It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much. There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar. 1. X sucks 2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it 3. Can't, Congress 4. Gotta vote for better people 5. Gotta beat the the other party more 6. That sucks 7. Go back to 1 I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable. Z2C has added, paraphrasing: "6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)" That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now. Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo. Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on. If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address.
I'll live forever in quotes. Never thought that would be the way my legacy would endure, but hey, I'll take it.
It's hard to articulate what we know or agree on when what we ask doesn't get answered. Maybe I'm for your (r)evolution, but not the methods or outcomes. Maybe I'm secretly building a knowledge base of your ideas and plan to dish it out to the local Chicago (r)evolution clubs. I'm definitely going to demand they call me GreenHorizons though. Such a dream-like name.
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On July 22 2019 13:11 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas. It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much. There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar. 1. X sucks 2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it 3. Can't, Congress 4. Gotta vote for better people 5. Gotta beat the the other party more 6. That sucks 7. Go back to 1 I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable. Z2C has added, paraphrasing: "6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)" That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now. Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo. Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on. If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address. I'll live forever in quotes. Never thought that would be the way my legacy would endure, but hey, I'll take it. It's hard to articulate what we know or agree on when what we ask doesn't get answered. Maybe I'm for your (r)evolution, but not the methods or outcomes. Maybe I'm secretly building a knowledge base of your ideas and plan to dish it out to the local Chicago (r)evolution clubs. I'm definitely going to demand they call me GreenHorizons though. Such a dream-like name.
Funny story, one of my first requests ever (iirc) of mods was to change it (slightly), never happened, so I guess that worked out.
Since I'm in "I'm here so I don't get fined mode" for a bit until I get some feedback from moderation, can we address some of your concerns, or at least give it a good faith effort?
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On July 22 2019 13:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 13:11 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas. It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much. There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar. 1. X sucks 2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it 3. Can't, Congress 4. Gotta vote for better people 5. Gotta beat the the other party more 6. That sucks 7. Go back to 1 I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable. Z2C has added, paraphrasing: "6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)" That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now. Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo. Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on. If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address. I'll live forever in quotes. Never thought that would be the way my legacy would endure, but hey, I'll take it. It's hard to articulate what we know or agree on when what we ask doesn't get answered. Maybe I'm for your (r)evolution, but not the methods or outcomes. Maybe I'm secretly building a knowledge base of your ideas and plan to dish it out to the local Chicago (r)evolution clubs. I'm definitely going to demand they call me GreenHorizons though. Such a dream-like name. Funny story, one of my first requests ever (iirc) of mods was to change it (slightly), never happened, so I guess that worked out. Since I'm in "I'm here so I don't get fined mode" for a bit until I get some feedback from moderation, can we address some of your concerns, or at least give it a good faith effort?
Why are you asking? I've already given you permission to speak however you see fit that gets your ideas across. Moderation be damned if this gets a lot of confusion/frustration cleared up. Just bring the substance. And then, we can cook with Crisco.
Edit: I may not respond immediately, but I will respond. That 5AM alarm clock is giving me death stares.
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On July 22 2019 13:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 13:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 13:11 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas. It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much. There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar. 1. X sucks 2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it 3. Can't, Congress 4. Gotta vote for better people 5. Gotta beat the the other party more 6. That sucks 7. Go back to 1 I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable. Z2C has added, paraphrasing: "6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)" That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now. Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo. Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on. If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address. I'll live forever in quotes. Never thought that would be the way my legacy would endure, but hey, I'll take it. It's hard to articulate what we know or agree on when what we ask doesn't get answered. Maybe I'm for your (r)evolution, but not the methods or outcomes. Maybe I'm secretly building a knowledge base of your ideas and plan to dish it out to the local Chicago (r)evolution clubs. I'm definitely going to demand they call me GreenHorizons though. Such a dream-like name. Funny story, one of my first requests ever (iirc) of mods was to change it (slightly), never happened, so I guess that worked out. Since I'm in "I'm here so I don't get fined mode" for a bit until I get some feedback from moderation, can we address some of your concerns, or at least give it a good faith effort? Why are you asking?
I got a slightly chilling PM from moderation.
I've already given you permission to speak however you see fit that gets your ideas across. Moderation be damned
Easy for you to say lol.
if this gets a lot of confusion/frustration cleared up. Just bring the substance. And then, we can cook with Crisco.
I desperately hope it does.
So let's take into consideration IgnE's previous point.
On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life.
Let's start carefully, and agree on a way to close this gap (presuming I've underestimated your familiarity with the subject matter and/or done a poor job communicating my position because of my misestimation it).
Ask me a question that's narrow in scope that we can build from. You had a top 5 things you would do and I pointed out #1 has a lot in common with my perspective. I think that may be a good place to start.
EDIT At your leisure, just request you afford me the same consideration. If you ever feel like I'm unreasonably dodging going forward, please try PM'ing me before going to the mods because as has been mentioned before my posting is being closely monitored and will not be granted the same leniencies as others as far as I understand (this isn't an objection to that, merely a statement).
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On July 22 2019 13:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 13:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 13:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 13:11 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas. It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much. There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar. 1. X sucks 2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it 3. Can't, Congress 4. Gotta vote for better people 5. Gotta beat the the other party more 6. That sucks 7. Go back to 1 I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable. Z2C has added, paraphrasing: "6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)" That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now. Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo. Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on. If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address. I'll live forever in quotes. Never thought that would be the way my legacy would endure, but hey, I'll take it. It's hard to articulate what we know or agree on when what we ask doesn't get answered. Maybe I'm for your (r)evolution, but not the methods or outcomes. Maybe I'm secretly building a knowledge base of your ideas and plan to dish it out to the local Chicago (r)evolution clubs. I'm definitely going to demand they call me GreenHorizons though. Such a dream-like name. Funny story, one of my first requests ever (iirc) of mods was to change it (slightly), never happened, so I guess that worked out. Since I'm in "I'm here so I don't get fined mode" for a bit until I get some feedback from moderation, can we address some of your concerns, or at least give it a good faith effort? Why are you asking? I got a slightly chilling PM from moderation. Show nested quote +I've already given you permission to speak however you see fit that gets your ideas across. Moderation be damned Easy for you to say lol. Show nested quote + if this gets a lot of confusion/frustration cleared up. Just bring the substance. And then, we can cook with Crisco. I desperately hope it does. So let's take into consideration IgnE's previous point. Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Let's start carefully, and agree on a way to close this gap (presuming I've underestimated your familiarity with the subject matter and/or done a poor job communicating my position because of my misestimation it). Ask me a question that's narrow in scope that we can build from. You had a top 5 things you would do and I pointed out #1 has a lot in common with my perspective. I think that may be a good place to start. EDIT At your leisure, just request you afford me the same consideration. If you ever feel like I'm unreasonably dodging going forward, please try PM'ing me before going to the mods because as has been mentioned before my posting is being closely monitored and will not be granted the same leniencies as others as far as I understand (this isn't an objection to that, merely a statement).
I'll start with a quote.
We must become bigger than we have been: more courageous, greater in spirit, larger in outlook. We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations but to our fellow men within the human community.
I'll assume you mean titans of industry when you say "capitalist class" and therefore wish to strip them of their influence and power. I can agree to an extent. Now, how do you go about it and who is the recipient? How does that not get abused by the new? In keeping with the quote, do you "segregate" any class? How do you build that community that is onboard?
Edit: this goes to point...3? Of my top 5? I didn't check before replying. Feel free to add it to one of create a new point.
Edit 2: in keeping with point one, education, what areas do you see needing immediate reform? Use creationism vs evolution of you need an easy example.
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On July 22 2019 14:00 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 13:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 13:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 13:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 13:11 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it. I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas. It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much. There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar. 1. X sucks 2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it 3. Can't, Congress 4. Gotta vote for better people 5. Gotta beat the the other party more 6. That sucks 7. Go back to 1 I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable. Z2C has added, paraphrasing: "6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)" That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now. Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo. Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on. If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address. I'll live forever in quotes. Never thought that would be the way my legacy would endure, but hey, I'll take it. It's hard to articulate what we know or agree on when what we ask doesn't get answered. Maybe I'm for your (r)evolution, but not the methods or outcomes. Maybe I'm secretly building a knowledge base of your ideas and plan to dish it out to the local Chicago (r)evolution clubs. I'm definitely going to demand they call me GreenHorizons though. Such a dream-like name. Funny story, one of my first requests ever (iirc) of mods was to change it (slightly), never happened, so I guess that worked out. Since I'm in "I'm here so I don't get fined mode" for a bit until I get some feedback from moderation, can we address some of your concerns, or at least give it a good faith effort? Why are you asking? I got a slightly chilling PM from moderation. I've already given you permission to speak however you see fit that gets your ideas across. Moderation be damned Easy for you to say lol. if this gets a lot of confusion/frustration cleared up. Just bring the substance. And then, we can cook with Crisco. I desperately hope it does. So let's take into consideration IgnE's previous point. On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Let's start carefully, and agree on a way to close this gap (presuming I've underestimated your familiarity with the subject matter and/or done a poor job communicating my position because of my misestimation it). Ask me a question that's narrow in scope that we can build from. You had a top 5 things you would do and I pointed out #1 has a lot in common with my perspective. I think that may be a good place to start. EDIT At your leisure, just request you afford me the same consideration. If you ever feel like I'm unreasonably dodging going forward, please try PM'ing me before going to the mods because as has been mentioned before my posting is being closely monitored and will not be granted the same leniencies as others as far as I understand (this isn't an objection to that, merely a statement). I'll start with a quote. Show nested quote +We must become bigger than we have been: more courageous, greater in spirit, larger in outlook. We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations but to our fellow men within the human community. I'll assume you mean titans of industry when you say "capitalist class" and therefore wish to strip them of their influence and power. I can agree to an extent. Now, how do you go about it and who is the recipient? How does that not get abused by the new? In keeping with the quote, do you "segregate" any class? How do you build that community that is onboard? Edit: this goes to point...3? Of my top 5? I didn't check before replying. Feel free to add it to one of create a new point.
Why the random quote from someone I don't think has even been brought up here before?
I think we should start with point 1 and try not to presume too much at once. If you insist you believe the disagreements around point 3 is the best place to start, you're in charge and that's what we'll do. Just let me know.
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On July 22 2019 14:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2019 14:00 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 13:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 13:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 13:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 13:11 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 22 2019 12:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 22 2019 11:22 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 22 2019 10:05 iamthedave wrote:On July 22 2019 09:01 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
Nope, it is a matter of people asking me questions and me answering them. I'm sick and tired of him playing victim whenever people call out his offensive BS. If he wants to put it out there, by all means go for it, then defend it. If you don't want to, either don't put it out there or at the very least don't feel sorry for you when people have simple questions about it.
I'm still waiting on you providing the quote where GH says he's advocating for the eradication of Israel. You're ridiculously out of line, and the biggest irony is you asking someone else to prove you're being an asshole when you've spent about three pages proving it yourself. You've accused him of saying a ton of stuff he's never said and then demanding he defend these positions he doesn't hold. Does it not occur to you that maybe - just maybe - you're off-base when multiple people who regularly disagree with GH are calling you out? JC may be acting like a dick right now but he's right. GH has been a condescending asshole for years now, constantly dodging questions and then talking down to people to feed his own ego. There's absolutely zero accountability for his ideas in this thread and it's clear where the moderation bias lies. Multiple posters have taken him to task to get some actual, concrete ideas and solutions from him and he dodges every time. Then, when we really start calling him out on it, people like you roll in to give him a smokescreen to slink away behind without having to justify his ideas. It's really weird for me to be perceived as having moderation biased toward me lately. fwiw I'll try to reiterate in brief my framing that bothers a few of you so much. There's a pattern I'm tired of and I'm trying to do what little I can to remedy it. Follow me for a moment, sorry if this sounds familiar. 1. X sucks 2. Yeah it does, we should do something about it 3. Can't, Congress 4. Gotta vote for better people 5. Gotta beat the the other party more 6. That sucks 7. Go back to 1 I can run you through any issue you want to demonstrate it, depending on what you pick I might be able to link you specific examples in posts. It's bipartisan too, so I can demonstrate it with Republican stuff if that makes people more comfortable. Z2C has added, paraphrasing: "6.5 I dunno what to do, I have some ideas, not sure how to make them happen without a magic wand (but I have some ideas on that too [I think?].)" That was me a few years ago tbh (I mean no shade with that). Then I read/listened to/thought about/talked through a ton of shit for the last few years while everyone was focused on Trump and Mueller and stuff (not bragging). That's what we're seeing right now. Some posters due to circumstances had a reasonable amount of preexisting knowledge (or developed it recently as well) about the (at least European roots) stuff I've recently really delved into. That's not the likes of yourself (I'm making a presumption here that may not be entirely fair because I don't have the same familiarity with your posting), JC, z2c, and some others. Now some people have recognized that and chosen to listen or tune us out. A handful of people have taken to a rather unbecoming display of what I would describe as entitlement largely wrapped around what was recently articulated by Kwark quite well as "white club"imo. Rather than go my old route of returning venom with venom I've chosen (partly encouraged by moderation) to ignore them (to the best of my ability) instead. There was a presumption that at some point it would resolve itself more or less, but alas, it drags on. If people are okay with me engaging with whatever your response is I will, but otherwise I suggest we take it to PM's if you have further inquires/arguments you'd like me to address. I'll live forever in quotes. Never thought that would be the way my legacy would endure, but hey, I'll take it. It's hard to articulate what we know or agree on when what we ask doesn't get answered. Maybe I'm for your (r)evolution, but not the methods or outcomes. Maybe I'm secretly building a knowledge base of your ideas and plan to dish it out to the local Chicago (r)evolution clubs. I'm definitely going to demand they call me GreenHorizons though. Such a dream-like name. Funny story, one of my first requests ever (iirc) of mods was to change it (slightly), never happened, so I guess that worked out. Since I'm in "I'm here so I don't get fined mode" for a bit until I get some feedback from moderation, can we address some of your concerns, or at least give it a good faith effort? Why are you asking? I got a slightly chilling PM from moderation. I've already given you permission to speak however you see fit that gets your ideas across. Moderation be damned Easy for you to say lol. if this gets a lot of confusion/frustration cleared up. Just bring the substance. And then, we can cook with Crisco. I desperately hope it does. So let's take into consideration IgnE's previous point. On July 22 2019 06:35 IgnE wrote:
Is this the trial of GreenHorizons? What is the point of this?
Maybe stop asking GH to do what libraries of books have been written to do, and maybe GH limit yourself to particular analyses rather than some vague call to revolution for people who’ve never read a socialist thinker in their life. Let's start carefully, and agree on a way to close this gap (presuming I've underestimated your familiarity with the subject matter and/or done a poor job communicating my position because of my misestimation it). Ask me a question that's narrow in scope that we can build from. You had a top 5 things you would do and I pointed out #1 has a lot in common with my perspective. I think that may be a good place to start. EDIT At your leisure, just request you afford me the same consideration. If you ever feel like I'm unreasonably dodging going forward, please try PM'ing me before going to the mods because as has been mentioned before my posting is being closely monitored and will not be granted the same leniencies as others as far as I understand (this isn't an objection to that, merely a statement). I'll start with a quote. We must become bigger than we have been: more courageous, greater in spirit, larger in outlook. We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations but to our fellow men within the human community. I'll assume you mean titans of industry when you say "capitalist class" and therefore wish to strip them of their influence and power. I can agree to an extent. Now, how do you go about it and who is the recipient? How does that not get abused by the new? In keeping with the quote, do you "segregate" any class? How do you build that community that is onboard? Edit: this goes to point...3? Of my top 5? I didn't check before replying. Feel free to add it to one of create a new point. Why the random quote from someone I don't think has even been brought up here before? I think we should start with point 1 and try not to presume too much at once. If you insist you believe the disagreements around point 3 is the best place to start, you're in charge and that's what we'll do. Just let me know.
5 Point Plan To a Successful Revolution by Z2C
1. Immediate re-education of the society and climate that we live in, exposing children from middle school onward about the dangers of xenophobia, unchecked climate change and capitalism, as well as basic understanding of politics.
2. Term limits of congressmen/women who are there to serve the will of the collective people, and not just the wealthy donors who pay them. Those who abdicate responsibility or fail to actualize the will of the people, are removed immediately and replaced.
3. Healthcare for all, at a rate that is conducive to their lifestyle. If you're at or below the poverty line, you're covered. Anyone above, married or single, you can choose government backed healthcare or private.
4. Foreign relations must be upheld and maintained in accordance with the sovereignty of the nation we are dealing with. No unilateral punitive measures are to be taken without at least a majority vote of the G7.
5. Education must be continuously improved and enhanced to face the challenges of the world, while also looking to the future of what humanity needs. STEaM and trades get equal coverage and pay must be at or above "middle class" status.
For reference.
Is there anything you would do different?
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