US Politics Mega-thread - Page 147

On April 28 2018 10:07 Plansix wrote:

Just go vote Republican and stop wasting everyone’s time.

On April 28 2018 17:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:

By the way, beside the rather shitty revolutionary rhetoric to appeal armchair activists, Bernie is centre left. It’s just that the political spectrum in the US is so far on the right compared to what it is in other advanced nations or what it was before the GOP turned into a madhouse, that calling for an end of the systemic corruption of American democracy turns you into a mixture of Lenin and Pol Pot to most commenters.

I’ll add two things, though: Bernie’s extremist image is partly due too to the moderate Democrats that have opposed him in the primary, but his own confrontational rhetoric and the huge toxicity of his supporters is an obvious factor. I’ll never support anyone whose supporters chant “ABC or burst”. If you are ready to see the country goes in flame if you don’t get what you want, you are not mature enough for politics.

On April 28 2018 18:08 Nebuchad wrote:
He means Bernie or bust. He's putting me in a weird spot because while he's not wrong that voting Clinton in swing states was correct, calling a reaction to a lack of political representation naive is cringeworthy.

On April 28 2018 18:15 GreenHorizons wrote:


To me voting Clinton is basically the same as enabling an addict hoping this time they won't use the cash to buy more drugs.

I can empathize with folks in swing states choosing that path though. Letting people hit rock bottom is an ugly sight.

On April 28 2018 21:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:

What I am saying is that I am basically aligned with Bernie politically, and will hate his movement forever for handling the country to a monster like Donald Trump. Even after the primaries, his supporters were more busy demolishing HC out of spite than caring a bit about the fact that her defeat would mean an itra conservative SC for decades and the destruction of everything accomplished during eight years of democratic government, not counting the existential risk of handling the nuclear weapon to a mn child not with the intelligence and empathy of a psychopathic monkey. But who cares because emails!(tm) and DNC!(tm)

I voted Macron against Le Pen in France. That was painful, necause he has every problemClinton had (the real ones, not the email bs) magnified ten times. Well, I am happy my country is in the hand of a competent guy i don’t like than in the hand of a fascist.

And frankly, nothing has damaged the image idea and credibility Bernie might have had in my eyes than months of discussions with you.

On April 28 2018 21:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:

What I am saying is that I am basically aligned with Bernie politically, and will hate his movement forever for handling the country to a monster like Donald Trump. Even after the primaries, his supporters were more busy demolishing HC out of spite than caring a bit about the fact that her defeat would mean an itra conservative SC for decades and the destruction of everything accomplished during eight years of democratic government, not counting the existential risk of handling the nuclear weapon to a mn child not with the intelligence and empathy of a psychopathic monkey. But who cares because emails!(tm) and DNC!(tm)

I voted Macron against Le Pen in France. That was painful, necause he has every problemClinton had (the real ones, not the email bs) magnified ten times. Well, I am happy my country is in the hand of a competent guy i don’t like than in the hand of a fascist.

And frankly, nothing has damaged the image idea and credibility Bernie might have had in my eyes than months of discussions with you.

On April 28 2018 21:27 a_flayer wrote:
Likewise, nothing has driven me further towards conservatism than the interactions I've had with SJWs like you.

On April 28 2018 22:08 GreenHorizons wrote:


I'd say the same for you on the last part, but also you weren't an ally in the first place if anything I've said here turned you toward conservatism.

On April 28 2018 22:18 Ryzel wrote:
And given a_flayer's posting history, it seems like her(?) post is more directed at Biff than you, GH. But I could be wrong.

On April 28 2018 22:18 Ryzel wrote:
Eh, hunts seems like he's just bitter towards GH and that's motivating his posts. Phrasing his initial post as "straight, white male" almost seems like he's trying to trigger GH.

And given a_flayer's posting history, it seems like her(?) post is more directed at Biff than you, GH. But I could be wrong.

As far as a political point to this post, I agree with Nebuchad. I'm now under the impression that true "rock-bottom" is systemic breakdown of civilization in the US and rampant, lawless anarchy, and before that point it can always get worse. In that context, it makes sense that GH would appreciate on some level someone like Trump replacing Clinton, because the sooner we go down the sooner we can get back up the right way. But unless you've got a doomsday bunker somewhere with all the food, books, and (probably necessary) guns necessary to fulfill the political vision for the US you have in mind after the fall, it's probably neither going to go very well nor as you planned.

Also, welcome back GH. I for one always enjoy experiencing your point of view, and feel you make the US Poly thread a much more interesting place.

EDIT - Haha my mistake, for some reason I had in my head that some people referred to you as a woman or one of your posts had content that implied you were a woman or something, I can’t remember now. Thanks for clearing it up for me =)

On April 28 2018 22:08 GreenHorizons wrote:


There seems to be a lot to unpack there but I'll give it a shot.

I think there were a lot of factors in how Trump won, trying to put it on Bernie supporters just doesn't hold up. I'm to the left of Bernie and have been for a while, even if I tempered it with a more neoliberal incrementalism before. It's not really fair to put my positions on the Bernie crowd, or even too much of the "Bernie or Bust" crowd.

In that vain, in 2008, more Clinton voters were claiming they would vote for the Republican or not at all if Hillary weren't the nominee than there ever were polled in the "Bernie or Bust" crowd.

We know now that the DNC lawyers, the DNCC and Democratic leadership all agree that primaries are merely for show and avoiding campaign finance violations.

With that, of course Bernie supporters didn't just fall in line and obviously not those of us to their left. Without rehashing how terrible of an idea having those same people who think primaries are for show/power brokering shove a politician LESS popular than Trump down voters throats while also intentionally promoting Trump and wanting him to be the nominee specifically so they could use the argument of holding off the Apocalypse as you are now, the "emails" and the "DNC" weren't insignificant problems, though the lying was always the bigger problem for me.

I think I made my position on voting Clinton clear enough, but your hate of Bernie's supporters and your discrediting of Bernie with people like myself has everything to do with you and nothing to do with Bernie or me really.




I'd say the same for you on the last part, but also you weren't an ally in the first place if anything said here turned you toward conservatism.

EDIT: Fair enough. *Crossfire commercial plays*

On April 28 2018 21:27 a_flayer wrote:
Likewise, nothing has driven me further towards conservatism than the interactions I've had with SJWs like you.

On April 28 2018 23:09 Schmobutzen wrote:
Hitting rock-bottom sounds so innocuous, and theoretically there is some merit to it, but in reality reaching that far down is mostly devastating on nearly all levels. I don't think that anybody sane could wish such a thing. Surely, it would change some things, and level a lot more, but the cost entailing that is just too gruesome.
I can only hope that nobody really wishes that.

On April 28 2018 22:58 iamthedave wrote:


Ah, crossfire. Was that show any good? All I know of it is the infamous time Jon Stewart went on there. It sounds like the sort of show your country could do with.

As to the general substance you're talking about, do you think the US can be pulled back at this point, or do you think it needs to hit rock bottom and bounce back to... somewhere?

Obviously you know my opinions on where things are likely going, but I'm curious on your own.

On April 28 2018 23:18 zlefin wrote:

many people DO say they wish that; it's becuase they have no idea what rock-bottom actually looks like; some people think they're there (rock-bottom) already in america; I read quite a few excerpts from trump voters saying that; they felt they had nothing left to lose so might as well try something irregular.

On April 28 2018 23:25 Yurie wrote:


North Korea isn't at rock bottom yet. Germany at the end of WW2 was close to it but was helped up again, having an educated population helps a lot as well. Somewhere like Somalia isn't even at rock bottom. I don't even know what that looks like. Mad Max might be approaching it a bit?