EPTalso not sure why you want to belabor the point so; instead of just accepting a reassertion of our prior positions.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 146
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
also not sure why you want to belabor the point so; instead of just accepting a reassertion of our prior positions. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22994 Posts
On April 28 2018 08:51 zlefin wrote: if you want to believe that, ok. It still seems very easy to disagree with to me, given that many of the same counterarguments still stand. also not sure why you want to belabor the point so; instead of just accepting a reassertion of our prior positions. Because Democrats are on their way to doing poorly in 2018 and losing in 2020 if they can't stop being stubborn about this general dynamic. | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On April 28 2018 08:35 GreenHorizons wrote: No. How in the world would you get that from what I said? The first part was for you, the rest was in response to Mohdoo but applies to anyone thinking the same stuff. You said: EDIT: Also why Democrats are doing anything they possibly can to have anyone but Bernie (or his pick) be the nominee in 2020 despite clearly being more popular than any Dem leader or potential candidate. What should they be doing instead? | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On April 28 2018 08:55 GreenHorizons wrote: Because Democrats are on their way to doing poorly in 2018 and losing in 2020 if they can't stop being stubborn about this general dynamic. Meh I'm a straight white male, I'll be mostly fine even under a shitty republican regime. I'd rather a Republican win than have the democratic party taken over by the radical far left people such as bernie. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On April 28 2018 08:55 GreenHorizons wrote: Because Democrats are on their way to doing poorly in 2018 and losing in 2020 if they can't stop being stubborn about this general dynamic. that's not a good reason to refuse an "agree to disagree" on arguments we've had many times before; which is what you're doing; refusing to accept an agree to disagree. that's what the belaboring is about; the belaboring with me specifically, which you did, repeatedly. I'm trying to withdraw from the conversation (something which we all know i'm bad at), and you're refusing, by insistently belaboring your points to me; and refusing to simply accept that we disagree and we've had this discussion before and shouldn't have it again. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22994 Posts
On April 28 2018 08:55 Wulfey_LA wrote: You said: What should they be doing instead? Not pushing progressives out of races for one. Hillary telling Peter Daou to stfu and neolibs to stop fighting the desperately needed changes at the DNC for getting rid of super delegates or cleaning up campaign finance. They shouldn't be spending money they don't really have on some dumbass lawsuit, and there's plenty more. On April 28 2018 08:59 hunts wrote: Meh I'm a straight white male, I'll be mostly fine even under a shitty republican regime. I'd rather a Republican win than have the democratic party taken over by the radical far left people such as bernie. which is why we know you're not really concerned about our issues, you just expect our vote in exchange for neolibs like yourself promising to hold off a Republican apocalypse you'd prefer over progressives taking control anyway. It's that completely hollow and superficial 'support' from neolibs on issues that matter to us that makes it so obvious they aren't with us or our issues. Bernie is center left btw, not "radical far left" On April 28 2018 09:02 zlefin wrote: that's not a good reason to refuse an "agree to disagree" on arguments we've had many times before; which is what you're doing; refusing to accept an agree to disagree. that's what the belaboring is about; the belaboring with me specifically. I'm trying to withdraw from the conversation (something which we all know i'm bad at), and you're refusing, by insistently belaboring your points to me. You asked why I'm talking about it, I told you. | ||
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A3th3r
United States319 Posts
On April 28 2018 06:48 Plansix wrote: It is a mid term election, so I don't think there is a real need for a "vision" right now. Focus on local politics and anger about the state of Washington in general. There is plenty of ammo about the administration that has nothing to do with Russia. The nightmare at the VA, HUD and EPA should be more than enough ammo for any candidate. And the teachers strikes are providing a clear pro-labor line to get behind that doesn't have any of the normal union baggage. He is telling the Democrats to stop talking about it, rather than making a case against it. You either do it or you don't. Impeachment is something the House does reluctantly and with the support of both parties. Not something one party promises to do. Yeah, I guess I don't see impeachment as a possibility. I thought that was just some sort of Richard Nixon reference where Trump has a fascination with "bad guys" & thought things were going to turn out for him like they did for Richard. Realistically, that's not going to happen because the economy is doing well, the labor market is good nowadays, politics continues to get a lot of attention because of what Trump does so there is a more involved electorate, the list goes on. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 28 2018 08:59 hunts wrote: Meh I'm a straight white male, I'll be mostly fine even under a shitty republican regime. I'd rather a Republican win than have the democratic party taken over by the radical far left people such as bernie. Just go vote Republican and stop wasting everyone’s time. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 28 2018 10:06 A3th3r wrote: Yeah, I guess I don't see impeachment as a possibility. I thought that was just some sort of Richard Nixon reference where Trump has a fascination with "bad guys" & thought things were going to turn out for him like they did for Richard. Realistically, that's not going to happen because the economy is doing well, the labor market is good nowadays, politics continues to get a lot of attention because of what Trump does so there is a more involved electorate, the list goes on. None of those things were factors with Nixon. It is going to depend on the results of the investigation and not much else. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On April 28 2018 10:07 Plansix wrote: Just go vote Republican and stop wasting everyone’s time. Why would I do that? Surely you can see that to lose the democratic party to the likes of Bernie would be as bad as when the republicans lost their party to the obstructionist and bigots | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On April 28 2018 08:59 hunts wrote: Meh I'm a straight white male, I'll be mostly fine even under a shitty republican regime. I'd rather a Republican win than have the democratic party taken over by the radical far left people such as bernie. Only in the US does anything Bernie say count as radical far left... Your comment comes across as "I'd rather have the rights of many tossed away even more actively than usual for the US while the deficit goes through the ceiling than spend money to make sure people in my own country are healthy and educated." Sure, I can kinda get that from a purely selfish perspective, but it's not one that I'll ever give weight to. Nor that I think anyone hoping for a functional society should. How, in your honest opinion, would someone like Bernie be close to as damaging as say, the current Republican establishment, for the US as a whole? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 28 2018 10:39 hunts wrote: Why would I do that? Surely you can see that to lose the democratic party to the likes of Bernie would be as bad as when the republicans lost their party to the obstructionist and bigots No, I don’t believe that the Bernie Sanders is as bad as Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton. This is not a good argument and you should stop making it. Like In what would would folks from Sanders camp hold up a nomination until the nominee died? Without even a hearing? | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On April 28 2018 10:46 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Only in the US does anything Bernie say count as radical far left... Your comment comes across as "I'd rather have the rights of many tossed away even more actively than usual for the US while the deficit goes through the ceiling than spend money to make sure people in my own country are healthy and educated." Sure, I can kinda get that from a purely selfish perspective, but it's not one that I'll ever give weight to. Nor that I think anyone hoping for a functional society should. How, in your honest opinion, would someone like Bernie be close to as damaging as say, the current Republican establishment, for the US as a whole? I am very much for government provided healthcare for everyone, and for higher education to be cheaper or free. What I'm not for, is having the party taken over by those who think all banks should be taken down while having literally no clue what the president can and can't do. I don't want my party taken over by people want to abolish thr police or hang all rich people by the neck. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On April 28 2018 11:44 Plansix wrote: Pretty sure that isn’t the US progressive left. They are kinda look into to return to a pre-Reagan tax code, criminal justice reform and better healthcare. I know for a fact getting rid of thr police was suggested on here by a far left poster. I'm pretty sure abolishing banks has been too. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 28 2018 11:49 hunts wrote: I know for a fact getting rid of thr police was suggested on here by a far left poster. I'm pretty sure abolishing banks has been too. Are you making the argument that one poster on this forum represents the full views of an entire political movement? This seems like a straw man at best. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On April 28 2018 11:57 Plansix wrote: Are you making the argument that one poster on this forum represents the full views of an entire political movement? This seems like a straw man at best. I'm not basing that on just one poster here. I've seen plenty of comments from bernie bros, both ones I personally know and random ones on the internet. Many of them seem to believe similar things. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
At least GH and the people he linked to are starting a conversation about alternatives to the nature of the enforcement of laws. Which btw isn't something Bernie has ever said or talked about doing besides calling for reform in the criminal justice system (which is really fucking needs). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On April 28 2018 12:10 Plansix wrote: There is no political movement I am aware of making a argument to truly abolish the police. It seems as much of a threat as Obama’s plan to take away peoples guns. But you will see that one nutcase waving that sign calling for imprisoning the police at the community college on Ingraham, Hannity, and Tucker. | ||
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