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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. |
On November 14 2015 19:18 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 19:15 zatic wrote:On November 14 2015 19:10 hfglgg wrote:On November 14 2015 18:57 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@hfglgg
When you ask people to stay calm, they will panic even more (it's a scientific fact). People need to see some measures taken to calm themselves. There's no such thing as comfort infringement when it comes to a national safety.
The nature of terrorism is well-known, it's #1 threat globally exactly because it costs more than any other disaster bar atomic ones and much research is done on how much it affects all spheres of life.
what should be done now is investigate everything thoroughly and prosecute everyone involved, if suspects flee to countries where they cant be prosecuted go there and arrest/kill them. nothing else needs to be done, no amount of extra surveillance can eliminate terrorism or crime in general, it will always happen and has always happend. Right. However, this type of attack is exactly the type that is actually hard to pull off against a vigilant state. This was a whole different quality than Charlie Hebdo, with significant logistical effort put into it. Security services must have fucked up hard this time to be completely surprised. i mean it's a few AK47s and grenades in a country that has super open borders with other EU states.. it'll probably come out that the weapons were smuggled into a poorer EU country then driven to France, there's not much french intelligence could have done
You can buy AK47s easily in french suburbs if you have the right contacts. A shitton of them was smuggled after the war in Kosovo.
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On November 14 2015 12:39 Souma wrote:
'All opinions are formed on limited data' bull fucking shit.
If you tell me a movie is bad and you only watched the trailer, you lose any semblance of credibility and can go on your way to being an uninformed, ignorant asshat.
I mean, is This even real life ?!
Why the fuck are You writing ? You didn't read everything and knows all the rules about writing and English language. So why are You using it and having an opinion ?
You never speak about weather cause you havent read everything bout it ?
What bout maths ?!
Your basically saying That one has to have a perfect understanding and knowledge about something to actually be relevant ?
Wtf ?
Cricketer, i pretty Much think i've understood your opinion and your thoughts on the matter, even Tho i do not agree with those.
Because, as it has been said before, holy books (not only refering to quran There), are full of parabole and are fucking open to any interpretation you want. If we go back to the verse you spoke bout women's rights and treatment from quran, I wont quote you (i'm on phone atm thats not super easy to do) but you basically said That the way you interpreted it was like That. Just wanted to share That if You read the same verse to another muslim, with less général knowledge, different teachings and a totally different culture and social level, i bet you whatever you want he wont really cme out with the same interpretation as You. And it could be definitely way more violent towards women.
And last point, you know what ? He could also be a moderate muslim. Stop believe the stantards of modération when it comes to anything (particularly religion in This case) are the same Everywhere in the world under every culture, government, and w/e.
Again, betting you anything you want That the "average" muslim is reaaaaaaaaaly not the same in the US and in, for example, India. (and i did not even spoke of saudi arabia, or thailand...)
Edit : And also, im sorry to Say it like That, but :
With the knowledges and the compréhension of the world we, in the west, have (making planes fly, transmitting informations at light speed, gathering informations on supermassives galaxies and black holes, about an infinité universe expanding...), how the fuck can You fuckng still believe That a bored bearded oldy invented all That ?!
It fucking blows my mind. (not directed at muslims or anyone in particular, Just to more than half of tht fucking planet still believing what some genius mofo wrote 2 millenia ago to get more power).
I can get That believing in something is important for some people, but why dont you Guys Just pick bouddhism ?! Peace beliefs opened to no interprétations...
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Zurich15365 Posts
On November 14 2015 19:18 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 19:15 zatic wrote:On November 14 2015 19:10 hfglgg wrote:On November 14 2015 18:57 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@hfglgg
When you ask people to stay calm, they will panic even more (it's a scientific fact). People need to see some measures taken to calm themselves. There's no such thing as comfort infringement when it comes to a national safety.
The nature of terrorism is well-known, it's #1 threat globally exactly because it costs more than any other disaster bar atomic ones and much research is done on how much it affects all spheres of life.
what should be done now is investigate everything thoroughly and prosecute everyone involved, if suspects flee to countries where they cant be prosecuted go there and arrest/kill them. nothing else needs to be done, no amount of extra surveillance can eliminate terrorism or crime in general, it will always happen and has always happend. Right. However, this type of attack is exactly the type that is actually hard to pull off against a vigilant state. This was a whole different quality than Charlie Hebdo, with significant logistical effort put into it. Security services must have fucked up hard this time to be completely surprised. i mean it's a few AK47s and grenades in a country that has super open borders with other EU states.. it'll probably come out that the weapons were smuggled into a poorer EU country then driven to France, there's not much french intelligence could have done
It's the first attack carried out with that kind of weaponry, so apparently it's not that easy. Charlie, the train attacks, etc were all done with guns you can legally buy in most European countries. As far as I can tell this is the first time actual automatic weapons were used.
That's not talking about the effort coordinating an attack like this without being noticed. And I mean it was close, if that guy in Germany turns out to have been part of it that could have potentially prevented the attack.
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On November 14 2015 19:26 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 19:18 Endymion wrote:On November 14 2015 19:15 zatic wrote:On November 14 2015 19:10 hfglgg wrote:On November 14 2015 18:57 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@hfglgg
When you ask people to stay calm, they will panic even more (it's a scientific fact). People need to see some measures taken to calm themselves. There's no such thing as comfort infringement when it comes to a national safety.
The nature of terrorism is well-known, it's #1 threat globally exactly because it costs more than any other disaster bar atomic ones and much research is done on how much it affects all spheres of life.
what should be done now is investigate everything thoroughly and prosecute everyone involved, if suspects flee to countries where they cant be prosecuted go there and arrest/kill them. nothing else needs to be done, no amount of extra surveillance can eliminate terrorism or crime in general, it will always happen and has always happend. Right. However, this type of attack is exactly the type that is actually hard to pull off against a vigilant state. This was a whole different quality than Charlie Hebdo, with significant logistical effort put into it. Security services must have fucked up hard this time to be completely surprised. i mean it's a few AK47s and grenades in a country that has super open borders with other EU states.. it'll probably come out that the weapons were smuggled into a poorer EU country then driven to France, there's not much french intelligence could have done It's the first attack carried out with that kind of weaponry, so apparently it's not that easy. Charlie, the train attacks, etc were all done with guns you can legally buy in most European countries. As far as I can tell this is the first time actual automatic weapons were used. That's not talking about the effort coordinating an attack like this without being noticed. And I mean it was close, if that guy in Germany turns out to have been part of it that could have potentially prevented the attack.
It's not the first attack, the attack on charlie was similar, word was that the kouachi brothers even had a rocket launcher. It was really easy to smuggle weapon in France prior to the attack, there were no border control at all.
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On November 14 2015 19:23 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 19:15 zatic wrote:On November 14 2015 19:10 hfglgg wrote:On November 14 2015 18:57 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@hfglgg
When you ask people to stay calm, they will panic even more (it's a scientific fact). People need to see some measures taken to calm themselves. There's no such thing as comfort infringement when it comes to a national safety.
The nature of terrorism is well-known, it's #1 threat globally exactly because it costs more than any other disaster bar atomic ones and much research is done on how much it affects all spheres of life.
what should be done now is investigate everything thoroughly and prosecute everyone involved, if suspects flee to countries where they cant be prosecuted go there and arrest/kill them. nothing else needs to be done, no amount of extra surveillance can eliminate terrorism or crime in general, it will always happen and has always happend. Right. However, this type of attack is exactly the type that is actually hard to pull off against a vigilant state. This was a whole different quality than Charlie Hebdo, with significant logistical effort put into it. Security services must have fucked up hard this time to be completely surprised. maybe, but even if so the answer cant be less democracy, less civil rights and less everything that is so awesome.
The first thing is to secure the outer borders of the EU.
We can't let people just roam unchecked without any registration and searches for contraband. Who knows how many of these hundreds of thousands poor refugees are terrorists or people returning from their terrorism campaign in syria?
Maybe ten, fifty? a hundred? a thousand? And who knows if they aren't carrying weapon parts in their luggage and explosives....
Its naive to think that this is not happening and there needs to be some control for this.
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Yeah idiots will be idiots, poland hasn't any refugees to speak of and there is a difference between throwing all the refugees out and just registering and searching them and having them somewhat secured and housed.
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As a Polish citizen, I'm perfectly fine with this.
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On November 14 2015 19:06 KT_Elwood wrote:
France also has the balls to bomb the goat-Fuckers of ISIS and also your military forces are generally more scattered arround the world and actually "In Action" (Lybia, Somalia, Syria...).
in 2012: ...the decision of the United States to place Jabhat Al-Nusra, a jihadist group fighting on the side of the [Syrian] rebels, on their list of terrorist organizations has been sharply criticized by the supporters of the [Syrian] opposition. [The French foreign minister] Mr. Fabius declared that "all Arabs were opposed" to the American position "because on the ground they are making a good job". "This was very clear, and the president of the [Syrian National] Coalition shared also this view", added the Minister [Fabius].
Laurent Fabius on 12-December-2012, French foreign minister
http://www.lemonde.fr/acces-restreint/proche-orient/article/2012/12/13/6a6d629b6b6d71c5946c6a6565996a_1805889_3218.html
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ISIS just claimed responsibility for the attack.
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On November 14 2015 19:42 Latham wrote:As a Polish citizen, I'm perfectly fine with this.
Oh please, Poland has other more serious matters to tend to. You have more to fear from emigrants than from immigrants.
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Seriously you linked that shit? Like, seriously?
Funny tho, I actually hope we do it, Europe needs to desperatly wake up from the state it's now, i don't want in 30 years to have same in shit Warsaw cause poor muslims DON'T INTEGRATE.
Yeah idiots will be idiots, poland hasn't any refugees to speak of and there is a difference between throwing all the refugees out and just registering and searching them and having them somewhat secured and housed.
Poland gave shelter to Ukrainians, you know, the people from neighborhood country that actually got attacked recently(and whose are actually usefull cause they work and come from same culture). The muslims we gave refugee status went to Germany/Sweden already, sorry :/
So educate yourself first before you throw idiots around, k?
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On November 14 2015 19:52 aXa wrote:
ISIS just claimed responsibility for the attack.
Allah is behind the attack apparently. That's what ISIS said. Yeah ok. Don't want to translate that shitt
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On November 14 2015 19:41 Holy_AT wrote:Yeah idiots will be idiots, poland hasn't any refugees to speak of and there is a difference between throwing all the refugees out and just registering and searching them and having them somewhat secured and housed.
People seem to be under the impression that the refugees are the cause of these incidents, instead as a consequence of something else. They appeared in Europe because Europe participated in the destruction of middle Eastern and North African autocracies, which blocked most of the flow of refugees and received money for it from Europe on the maintenance of border and migration control.
Do not blame the refugees, blame the European policy of the last 5 years that led to this crisis. Personally blame Merkel, Sarkozy, Hollande, Cameron, Berlusconi and the smaller figures who indulged wars in Libya and Syria and helped to unleash a civil war there. And now all of the sudden these refugees are to blame, although in many respects the Europeans had a hand in the fact that the homes of these people were destroyed and they lost the opportunity to work there normally, which created fertile soil for the growth of terrorist groups.
Not to mention the funding of jihadist groups all across Libya and Syria. How long can people close their eyes and trudge on with their demography remains to be seen but the same little shits that destroyed the middle east will now use this to boost poll numbers. Hollande, who is polling at record lows has free reign to start military operations in the middle east and 'get a win' so to speak. Nothing like a little war to boost poll numbers, and people turn a blind eye to those wars creating these problems in the first place.
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France reforms should be :
-Closing every mosquees afiliated to Qatar/Saudi Arabia;
-Closing every mosquees known to spread hate speech;
-Closing every private school which doesn't reach a certain quota in term of result, this would reduce endoctrination schools;
-Freezing, or confiscating every assets from countries financing terrorisms, and cutting every trade agreement with them, and banning travelling to those countries.
-Flaging Wahabism as a sect and so banning it.
I think every countries should do that though.
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On November 14 2015 20:31 Faust852 wrote:
France reforms should be :
-Closing every mosquees afiliated to Qatar/Saudi Arabia;
-Closing every mosquees known to spread hate speech;
-Closing every private school which doesn't reach a certain quota in term of result, this would reduce endoctrination schools;
-Freezing, or confiscating every assets from countries financing terrorisms, and cutting every trade agreement with them, and banning travelling to those countries.
-Flaging Wahabism as a sect and so banning it.
I think every countries should do that though.
What do you mean for 'indoctrination schools'?
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On November 14 2015 20:26 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 19:41 Holy_AT wrote:Yeah idiots will be idiots, poland hasn't any refugees to speak of and there is a difference between throwing all the refugees out and just registering and searching them and having them somewhat secured and housed. People seem to be under the impression that the refugees are the cause of these incidents, instead as a consequence of something else. They appeared in Europe because Europe participated in the destruction of middle Eastern and North African autocracies, which blocked most of the flow of refugees and received money for it from Europe on the maintenance of border and migration control. Do not blame the refugees, blame the European policy of the last 5 years that led to this crisis. Personally blame Merkel, Sarkozy, Hollande, Cameron, Berlusconi and the smaller figures who indulged wars in Libya and Syria and helped to unleash a civil war there. And now all of the sudden these refugees are to blame, although in many respects the Europeans had a hand in the fact that the homes of these people were destroyed and they lost the opportunity to work there normally, which created fertile soil for the growth of terrorist groups.
What? First you say "dont blame refugees" and then you blame the refugee crysis yourself? This has nothing to do with the current refugee situation. The terrorists have been in Europe long before that.also France is being attacked because it fights the IS, not because Gadaffi or whatever.
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On November 14 2015 20:38 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 20:31 Faust852 wrote:
France reforms should be :
-Closing every mosquees afiliated to Qatar/Saudi Arabia;
-Closing every mosquees known to spread hate speech;
-Closing every private school which doesn't reach a certain quota in term of result, this would reduce endoctrination schools;
-Freezing, or confiscating every assets from countries financing terrorisms, and cutting every trade agreement with them, and banning travelling to those countries.
-Flaging Wahabism as a sect and so banning it.
I think every countries should do that though. What do you mean for 'indoctrination schools'?
Kids are put on muslim-only private schools which will reenforce the bad conceptions they are taught at home already. When you grow up in a radical family, if you are obliged to attend to a public school, at least the teacher and other students can help you see the light.
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A lot of people say that the refugee crisis isn't to blame, but that's not entirely fair to the other side.
Most people would agree that refugees themselves had nothing to do with these attacks, but the large movement of people from the ME and the reduced security policies due to the size of the problem could have facilitated ISIS (if it was them) in carrying out the attacks.
The reason why it's unfair to blame refugees themselves is that the perpetrators of the attacks are some of the same people that the refugees are escaping from. If you live in North-East Syria, Paris attacks are your everyday threat.
This doesn't diminish the fault of other regional actors though, mainly Assad, who's mass killings have probably created many more refugees than ISIS and who's protracted campaign to cling to power has guaranteed the flow of refugees into Europe that could have facilitated the attacks.
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People here are saying that now isis will get it hard.. what can France do that is not already being done to isis ? they have been bombed by dozens of different countries and are fighting dozens of other different factions.
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EPT
