EPTCanadian Politics Mega-thread - Page 104
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11960 Posts
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Vivax
21883 Posts
On March 23 2025 20:08 WombaT wrote: Prince Harry once famously wore a Nazi uniform as part of a fancy dress party and got criticised tons. Ironically by much of the same press that would subsequently launch a tabloid hate campaign against his wife, which many believe is at least partly due to her not being some 100% ‘English rose’ stereotype. For me such a thing, or going blackface in your youth are 100% questionable calls, yeah pretty insensitive. But really the kind of thing you can apologise for, not do again and it’s no big deal if the rest of your behaviour isn’t atrocious. One thing I don’t recall much of were defences like ‘it wasn’t a Nazi uniform’, or ‘it wasn’t actually blackface’. It’s so fucking weird man. Ah well, such is the current lay of the land, I suppose we’re just going to have to get used to it at this rate And just one more thing… I don’t recall Colombo going around Seig Heiling. Sorry, couldn’t resist. We have blackface as tradition around here... Around Christmas when one of the kids has to go as one of the three kings he paints his face black sometimes, or at school plays etc.. It was really just an hysterical angle to go on about an issue that wasn't one imo... At a costume party. I think the average person around here would argue it's more anti-racist than racist. It's one count to look at someone's biography and correctly deduce what they most likely are and another to replace all of that with the part they're playing at a given moment. The nazi uniform on Harry could have been edgelordism or a subtle hint that the royal family approves of eugenics. Maybe both. Or it was for attention catching etc. When someone offers you a slice of information about someone else with their own narrative, you cannot avoid confronting the content without being outed as having an agenda. If Musk says the Nazis did good things first and Sieg Heils later and...He's a tech ceo who cannot afford slip ups... It's not someone else who told the narrative. He put it out there himself. Unless he had a figurative gun pointed at him and was under duress. Ahem. Does he hate minorities believing they should be radically eradicated? Does he believe the government should micromanage the individual? Is he a nationalist supremacist? Using advanced technology to gain an edge in a new form of warfare? There's probably more boxes you can tick off until you reach the full picture but those are important. | ||
KwarK
United States42162 Posts
On March 23 2025 12:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: got nuttin' to say about the Trudeau family...and you do not have a direct rebuttal. so you resort to this. I resort to responding directly to a crazy thing that you said? Yes. Yes I do. You're a coward who wants desperately to defend what he did but lacks the courage to admit what he did and so you have to pretend that the thing that he did twice in a row was a random arm tick that could have happened to anyone but somehow doesn't happen to anyone but him and he does it twice. Elon has previously done "my heart goes out to you". Here it is at 12 seconds in. It looks a little different from the straight arm straight fingers classic Nazi salute. https://youtube.com/shorts/R_6dVlz6mug?si=DkeIj4SGP1QzoOc8 If you want to defend a Nazi salute then have a little fucking backbone, have the courage of your convictions, defend the Nazi salute. But what you're doing here is just embarrassing, you so desperately want to defend it that you're contorting yourself into knots but you're not willing to actually say it. People who don't feel a desperate need to defend Nazi salutes just go "yep, that's clearly a Nazi salute, don't support that". People with convictions who want to defend Nazi salutes go "yep, that's clearly a Nazi salute, love it". But you're the kind of pond slime that can neither condemn Nazis nor own their defence of Nazis. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16571 Posts
On March 24 2025 01:26 KwarK wrote: If you want to defend a Nazi salute then have a little fucking backbone, have the courage of your convictions, defend the Nazi salute. But what you're doing here is just embarrassing, you so desperately want to defend it that you're contorting yourself into knots but you're not willing to actually say it I think Musk and Falk were just flapping their arms around and they spend a lot of time on camera. Also, none of this is evidence they align themselves with Hitler. | ||
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Falling
Canada11303 Posts
But considering that's a thing you think humans do on the regular, I encourage you to frequently flap your arms around exactly like Elon in public. (Exactly like Elon, mind you, and not Charlie the coward Kirk's fake imitation.) I'm sure everyone else will think it is just as benign. You might even get a return flap of the arms from an arm flap enjoyer of a particular sort. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24203 Posts
On March 25 2025 01:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I'd like to see massive income tax cuts along with an increase in GST to make up the difference. The Conservative guy just announced an income tax cut. I think Musk and Falk were just flapping their arms around and they spend a lot of time on camera. Also, none of this is evidence they align themselves with Hitler. Why are you so in favour of swapping income tax out for sales tax incidentally? Also when the fuck did my boy Falk/Colombo go around doing Nazi salutes? I neither recall this being a thing, nor does a cursory search find me anything, even from the most hysterical ‘SJW’ corners of the internet. I’ve watched films depicting Nazi Germany where some of the actors being paid to be authentic don’t nail the Sieg Heil as convincingly as Musk on that occasion. As innumerable people have said on this forum, it is what it is. Whether it means Musk = Nazi is another discussion. In his modern world we going to re-litigate topics long thought settled? Is this where we’re going. I mean, did society ever really prove that the sky is blue, or that water is quite often wet? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11960 Posts
On March 25 2025 03:39 WombaT wrote: Also when the fuck did my boy Falk/Colombo go around doing Nazi salutes? I neither recall this being a thing, nor does a cursory search find me anything, even from the most hysterical ‘SJW’ corners of the internet. My guess is the opposite, the nazis found some clip of Falk doing something completely different and went "See it's the same as what Musk did". Can't be bothered to check tho. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24203 Posts
On March 25 2025 03:43 Nebuchad wrote: My guess is the opposite, the nazis found some clip of Falk doing something completely different and went "See it's the same as what Musk did". Can't be bothered to check tho. Maybe my searching skills are diminishing in me old age, mayhaps someone will enlighten me | ||
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BlackJack
United States10270 Posts
On March 25 2025 02:11 Falling wrote: Who the hell 'flaps their arms around' anyways? Are we birds? But considering that's a thing you think humans do on the regular, I encourage you to frequently flap your arms around exactly like Elon in public. (Exactly like Elon, mind you, and not Charlie the coward Kirk's fake imitation.) I'm sure everyone else will think it is just as benign. You might even get a return flap of the arms from an arm flap enjoyer of a particular sort. I’ve seen this argument a lot. The “well then you do it in public” gotcha in response to people that think Elon’s nazi salute was just an overstimulated autist flailing his arms. The problem is if you think about it for 5 seconds what you’re saying is “why don’t you intentionally do an unintentional Sieg Heil.” It makes no sense. You can’t intentionally do something unintentional. It’s like saying “why don’t you scream cocksucker at people” as a gotcha for someone saying a person with Tourette’s is not calling people cocksuckers. For the record I think Elon was intentionally throwing Sieg Heils there. I just think if someone truly believes it’s an involuntary autism spasm then “you do it” is not the mic drop people seem to think it is. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2510 Posts
On March 25 2025 08:29 BlackJack wrote: I’ve seen this argument a lot. The “well then you do it in public” gotcha in response to people that think Elon’s nazi salute was just an overstimulated autist flailing his arms. The problem is if you think about it for 5 seconds what you’re saying is “why don’t you intentionally do an unintentional Sieg Heil.” It makes no sense. You can’t intentionally do something unintentional. It’s like saying “why don’t you scream cocksucker at people” as a gotcha for someone saying a person with Tourette’s is not calling people cocksuckers. For the record I think Elon was intentionally throwing Sieg Heils there. I just think if someone truly believes it’s an involuntary autism spasm then “you do it” is not the mic drop people seem to think it is. I'd hope invoking autism as the source would imply he's socially awkward and doesn't understand what it means, not that he's got tourettes in his arms. The argument goes not that it was involuntary, but that it didn't mean the obvious and thereby wasn't a true nazi salute. "Well, you do it then" seems a reasonable counter to that line of thinking. Your point stands in that the person doing it wouldn't have the 'autism' excuse and couldn't do it with the same alleged lack of understanding, but it does rule out the "its not a nazi salute" pretty cleanly. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11960 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13795 Posts
On March 25 2025 08:29 BlackJack wrote: I’ve seen this argument a lot. The “well then you do it in public” gotcha in response to people that think Elon’s nazi salute was just an overstimulated autist flailing his arms. The problem is if you think about it for 5 seconds what you’re saying is “why don’t you intentionally do an unintentional Sieg Heil.” It makes no sense. You can’t intentionally do something unintentional. It’s like saying “why don’t you scream cocksucker at people” as a gotcha for someone saying a person with Tourette’s is not calling people cocksuckers. For the record I think Elon was intentionally throwing Sieg Heils there. I just think if someone truly believes it’s an involuntary autism spasm then “you do it” is not the mic drop people seem to think it is. Its only stupid if you acknowledge that he did Sieg Heil twice at a right wing political rally in front of cheering people. Its not stupid if you deny that it was a sieg Heil, which most conservatives are trying to argue. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24203 Posts
Yes, many a faux pas will be committed in a more fluid, improvisational social environment. For a speech you’ve plenty of time to prep and I dunno, consider if your wee gesture isn’t indistinguishable from a Sieg Heil? Not buying that. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10270 Posts
On March 25 2025 10:21 WombaT wrote: The whole autism angle is completely laughable. If anything the many folks I’ve known that end of the spectrum are more careful in their gesturing through not having as much of an intuitive grasp on social norms. Yes, many a faux pas will be committed in a more fluid, improvisational social environment. For a speech you’ve plenty of time to prep and I dunno, consider if your wee gesture isn’t indistinguishable from a Sieg Heil? Not buying that. He’s been jumping around stage and screaming like a banshee for months. I don’t think your friends being more careful with social gestures applies here. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10270 Posts
On March 25 2025 08:43 Fleetfeet wrote: I'd hope invoking autism as the source would imply he's socially awkward and doesn't understand what it means, not that he's got tourettes in his arms. The argument goes not that it was involuntary, but that it didn't mean the obvious and thereby wasn't a true nazi salute. "Well, you do it then" seems a reasonable counter to that line of thinking. Your point stands in that the person doing it wouldn't have the 'autism' excuse and couldn't do it with the same alleged lack of understanding, but it does rule out the "its not a nazi salute" pretty cleanly. The intention of the thing is exactly what makes it the thing. If the awkward flailing of the arms was not intended as a nazi salute and just incidentally looked like one, then it’s not a nazi salute. You can point at something with your middle finger that doesn’t mean you’re flipping the bird, so to speak. “Go ahead and point your middle finger at your boss then” isn’t the gotcha that someone pointing with their middle finger was actually saying “fuck you.” Lots of Asian cultures use the swastika as a symbol, that doesn’t mean they are using nazi symbolism. “You draw one then” isn’t some gotcha to prove that the symbol on a Buddhist temple is in fact a Nazi swastika. Of course I need to repeat that I do think Elon was throwing Sieg Heils | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
74 Posts
If I started throwing my arms out into a position that looked similar to a Nazi salute, most people wouldn’t immediately assume that I’m a Nazi, especially if they’ve talked to me. They’d assume I just made an awkward gesture. Which speaks to your point of intent. If someone was just throwing their arms around, then maybe there’s some plausible deniability. But Musk threw his entire body into those salutes not once but twice. He wasn’t flailing, he threw those salutes like how George Foreman threw those left hooks. Dude practiced that shit, it was more fluid than any presentation or dance he has ever done in his life. Why Musk glazers and the truly dishonest are pointing to Musk’s so-called autism as the reason he threw out those hard H Nazi salutes is because of the intent. They know there is no plausible deniability even if Musk threw out a more flaccid Nazi salute because Musk spends 20 hours a day on Twitter being a reply guy to self admitted fascists and Nazi adjacent influencers, constantly asking the Jewish question whenever he gets pushback, and talking about eugenics whenever it gets brought up. When I troll, I take a shit and then leave to live my life. I don’t spend 20 hours a day telling every fascist on Reddit “hmmmm you have interesting ideas I would like to sign up to your newsletter good sir”. | ||
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KwarK
United States42162 Posts
On March 25 2025 14:56 BlackJack wrote: Of course I need to repeat that I do think Elon was throwing Sieg Heils Then what point are you trying to make? That it's theoretically possible to imagine a world in which someone may be making a valid argument even though the real world is one in which they're not? | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28577 Posts
On March 25 2025 08:29 BlackJack wrote: I’ve seen this argument a lot. The “well then you do it in public” gotcha in response to people that think Elon’s nazi salute was just an overstimulated autist flailing his arms. The problem is if you think about it for 5 seconds what you’re saying is “why don’t you intentionally do an unintentional Sieg Heil.” It makes no sense. You can’t intentionally do something unintentional. It’s like saying “why don’t you scream cocksucker at people” as a gotcha for someone saying a person with Tourette’s is not calling people cocksuckers. For the record I think Elon was intentionally throwing Sieg Heils there. I just think if someone truly believes it’s an involuntary autism spasm then “you do it” is not the mic drop people seem to think it is. Saying 'it was a nazi salute but he didn't mean it as support of nazism' is different from 'it wasn't a nazi salute'. The 'you do it in public, then' is an attack on the 'it wasn't a nazi salute', not the 'it was a nazi salute but he didn't mean it as support of nazism'. The idea that it was 'involuntary flailing of arms' is honestly something I haven't seen before. | ||
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Billyboy
536 Posts
The analogy was his all time worst, and that is saying something. The reason that fallings example was actually good is if you go do this anywhere and claim autism you have a better chance of being punched in the face, or someone cheering for Nazis than you do anyone believing you have autism because everyone with half a brain knows that is not how it works. With the Tourette's example people know that is how it does work so it might actually work. It is really sad that no stunt, no matter how stupid will cause the people who think this "pwning the libs is so cool" (which is basically trying to prove that being nice to others is oh so uncool) is dumb as shit. There is no jumping the shark on this one. And the people with Blackjacks perspective but that are dumber than him, which is basically describing the hardcore MAGA group, even think this stunt worked. When this first happened and Blackjack said how it was obviously a sieg heil, I was pretty impressed and it gave him some more credibility. But that sure did not last long. It is like he can't help himself no matter how dumb it is he plants his flag and will argue to his death that actually the other side is wrong. I wish it was just a right problem, and it is probably bigger on the right, but both the Dems and Reps have a real problem right now of simply fighting about everything regardless of what it is. You say this while I think the opposite is how actual policy is being made right now. And it is dumb as fuck. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43970 Posts
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