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On August 05 2017 01:24 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 00:59 bardtown wrote:On August 05 2017 00:46 Plansix wrote:
The existence competition in a capitalistic system is not the Us vs Them dynamic that people are discussing. The Us vs Them dynamic is an often fictional competitive dynamic pushed by people in power to pit two groups against each other. As I said earlier, the fictional Us Worker vs Immigrant dynamic is an often exploited drum up political engagement. There is no evidence to support immigrants depressing wages or taking jobs, as all the areas they immigrate to have nearly full employment and a labor shortage. But it is still pushed as if it is reality. There is plenty of evidence. It is well understood that unskilled immigration results in wage depression for the lowest earners in society, and so the working class are correct in seeing them as competition and also in seeing people who claim that there is 'no evidence' as a threat to their livelihoods; especially when it tends to be the middle class telling them this, who, coincidentally I'm sure, benefit from cheap labour. They are a competition regardless of whether they migrate or not for as long as the market is open. If you don't want them to be a competition the least you have to do is either introduce trade barriers that raise the cost of imports to your local prices or make your own prices competitive through state support. If you don't do either firms just leave for other countries because they still have access to your market but can produce abroad. Open borders for goods is the exact same as open border for people, just without the social implications of migration.
For some sectors, but you can't import housing or gardening or get your takeaway delivered from across the continent. There's still an impact beyond just the social side.
On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use.
You're right, of course. Offering homeless people job opportunities not in the immediate vicinity of their park bench is pretty much equivalent to the gulags.
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On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use.
That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps.
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On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps.
Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive.
On August 05 2017 01:47 bardtown wrote:
You're right, of course. Offering homeless people job opportunities not in the immediate vicinity of their park bench is pretty much equivalent to the gulags.
A lot of the time those homeless people couldn't hold down a job if they wanted too. The majority of homeless are employed, but unable to afford housing or obtain long term emergency housing(my wife and I both worked in different parts of the housing sector when we meet. She helped the homeless find house).
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On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive.
I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry.
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On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry.
It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation.
EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place.
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On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use.
What makes you think they're empty?
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On August 05 2017 01:47 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:24 Big J wrote:On August 05 2017 00:59 bardtown wrote:On August 05 2017 00:46 Plansix wrote:
The existence competition in a capitalistic system is not the Us vs Them dynamic that people are discussing. The Us vs Them dynamic is an often fictional competitive dynamic pushed by people in power to pit two groups against each other. As I said earlier, the fictional Us Worker vs Immigrant dynamic is an often exploited drum up political engagement. There is no evidence to support immigrants depressing wages or taking jobs, as all the areas they immigrate to have nearly full employment and a labor shortage. But it is still pushed as if it is reality. There is plenty of evidence. It is well understood that unskilled immigration results in wage depression for the lowest earners in society, and so the working class are correct in seeing them as competition and also in seeing people who claim that there is 'no evidence' as a threat to their livelihoods; especially when it tends to be the middle class telling them this, who, coincidentally I'm sure, benefit from cheap labour. They are a competition regardless of whether they migrate or not for as long as the market is open. If you don't want them to be a competition the least you have to do is either introduce trade barriers that raise the cost of imports to your local prices or make your own prices competitive through state support. If you don't do either firms just leave for other countries because they still have access to your market but can produce abroad. Open borders for goods is the exact same as open border for people, just without the social implications of migration. For some sectors, but you can't import housing or gardening or get your takeaway delivered from across the continent. There's still an impact beyond just the social side.
True, low qualification services are probably not easy to outsource.
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On August 05 2017 01:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry. It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation. EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place.
In Portugal I'd say you have three(plus one) entities operating - local governments create both temporary housing and social housing and create re-insertion programs (some by national government too); an institution whose name translates to "Holy House of Mercy" earns revenue from a monopoly on lotteries and manages some temporary housing and programs; religious institutions related to the catholic church have a lot of programs too. Finally the plus one I'd say is that given a society with strong family connections, provides an additional safety net. This is a country where people often can't afford to move out until they're 30 and where grandparents often move back in.
No expert in this. I'd say one big problem in the US is mental health care. I just spent two weeks in CA and couldn't believe how many insane homeless people there were in each and every street corner of LA and SF. It's unthinkable in most EU countries I know to have people with serious mental health conditions live in the streets.
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On August 05 2017 01:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry. It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation. EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place.
In Vienna there are shelters that homeless people can turn to and state/city organizations that try to get them back on their feet socially, at least to the degree that they can be left living on their own or under the supervision of social workers. I believe it's more or less a network of public organisations and private NGOs that are doing the job in cooperation with each other. In general they would get enough welfare to be able to rent. Police is trying to keep them off the streets at night and we have a hotline that you can call in the winter if you see someone outside in the cold. Not sure if this is a good or complete picture of how it works though.
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On August 05 2017 02:11 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 01:55 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry. It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation. EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place. In Portugal I'd say you have three(plus one) entities operating - local governments create both temporary housing and social housing and create re-insertion programs (some by national government too); an institution whose name translates to "Holy House of Mercy" earns revenue from a monopoly on lotteries and manages some temporary housing and programs; religious institutions related to the catholic church have a lot of programs too. Finally the plus one I'd say is that given a society with strong family connections, provides an additional safety net. This is a country where people often can't afford to move out until they're 30 and where grandparents often move back in. No expert in this. I'd say one big problem in the US is mental health care. I just spent two weeks in CA and couldn't believe how many insane homeless people there were in each and every street corner of LA and SF. It's unthinkable in most EU countries I know to have people with serious mental health conditions live in the streets.
You are right, but also California is a wildly dysfunctional state and does not take good care of their homeless. Recently SF(highest income and housing costs in the US) tried to bus them out of the city(a common tactic, dumping them on another city that is willing pay for shelters). The homeless people just walked back to the city out of spite. They just don't want to spend money and would rather pass the cost on to some other town.
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California is also one of the states least capable of keeping its financial house of cards in order. I think they're doing slightly better now but until recently they were on the brink of some deep insolvency.
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On August 05 2017 02:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 02:11 warding wrote:On August 05 2017 01:55 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry. It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation. EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place. In Portugal I'd say you have three(plus one) entities operating - local governments create both temporary housing and social housing and create re-insertion programs (some by national government too); an institution whose name translates to "Holy House of Mercy" earns revenue from a monopoly on lotteries and manages some temporary housing and programs; religious institutions related to the catholic church have a lot of programs too. Finally the plus one I'd say is that given a society with strong family connections, provides an additional safety net. This is a country where people often can't afford to move out until they're 30 and where grandparents often move back in. No expert in this. I'd say one big problem in the US is mental health care. I just spent two weeks in CA and couldn't believe how many insane homeless people there were in each and every street corner of LA and SF. It's unthinkable in most EU countries I know to have people with serious mental health conditions live in the streets. You are right, but also California is a wildly dysfunctional state and does not take good care of their homeless. Recently SF(highest income and housing costs in the US) tried to bus them out of the city(a common tactic, dumping them on another city that is willing pay for shelters). The homeless people just walked back to the city out of spite. They just don't want to spend money and would rather pass the cost on to some other town.
I found it really strange given that the state votes heavily Democratic and is seemingly very progressive.
Does this list sound right (rank by homeless ratio):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population
The US seems to actually have a decent ratio of homelessness - might it be that they're simply concentrated in the big cities? Canada, Australia and the UK have particularly high homeless ratios - must be that terrible anglosaxon culture.
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From personal experience, I don’t think maybe non-Americans are aware of the long history of completely dysfunctional government in California. There is not parallel in Europe as far as I can tell. I feel compelled to tell folks because that state is not the rest of the country.
Edit: warding - the state is a special nightmare all on its own with reasons that cannot be blamed on left and right politics. They allowed citizens to write and pass laws directly, without legislative review. They also have huge areas of right leaning voters, but the cities vote left. And the state is massive in scale, with little unity or direction. Its economy is huge so it just powers through all the dysfunction.
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I can quite confidently say I'm happy I don't live in California anymore. Though it takes leaving the state to realize that there's a better place to live out there. Standard megacity disease, common throughout all big cities I've ever been in.
Quite a few big cities, endless desert land and farmland in between. Not a fan. Great place to visit or buy produce from though.
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On August 05 2017 02:23 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 02:17 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 02:11 warding wrote:On August 05 2017 01:55 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry. It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation. EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place. In Portugal I'd say you have three(plus one) entities operating - local governments create both temporary housing and social housing and create re-insertion programs (some by national government too); an institution whose name translates to "Holy House of Mercy" earns revenue from a monopoly on lotteries and manages some temporary housing and programs; religious institutions related to the catholic church have a lot of programs too. Finally the plus one I'd say is that given a society with strong family connections, provides an additional safety net. This is a country where people often can't afford to move out until they're 30 and where grandparents often move back in. No expert in this. I'd say one big problem in the US is mental health care. I just spent two weeks in CA and couldn't believe how many insane homeless people there were in each and every street corner of LA and SF. It's unthinkable in most EU countries I know to have people with serious mental health conditions live in the streets. You are right, but also California is a wildly dysfunctional state and does not take good care of their homeless. Recently SF(highest income and housing costs in the US) tried to bus them out of the city(a common tactic, dumping them on another city that is willing pay for shelters). The homeless people just walked back to the city out of spite. They just don't want to spend money and would rather pass the cost on to some other town. I found it really strange given that the state votes heavily Democratic and is seemingly very progressive. Does this list sound right (rank by homeless ratio): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_populationThe US seems to actually have a decent ratio of homelessness - might it be that they're simply concentrated in the big cities? Canada, Australia and the UK have particularly high homeless ratios - must be that terrible anglosaxon culture.
Yup. Our societies are more competitive and less family oriented and we have insane house prices. On the flipside:
![[image loading]](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/3/24/1395674032295/a3f653ff-f4f6-42b3-bf0d-4d0106df8a91-620x372.png?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=994b6dac1f94b0636cba237d14a01fb5)
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On August 05 2017 02:37 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 02:23 warding wrote:On August 05 2017 02:17 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 02:11 warding wrote:On August 05 2017 01:55 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 05 2017 01:13 bardtown wrote:
I wonder how you get half a million homeless and a simultaneous unskilled labour shortage. I can't imagine the US offers many visas for unskilled workers, either. Seems rather more like an issue with illegal immigration than legal immigration, but anyway this is US politics. We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry. It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation. EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place. In Portugal I'd say you have three(plus one) entities operating - local governments create both temporary housing and social housing and create re-insertion programs (some by national government too); an institution whose name translates to "Holy House of Mercy" earns revenue from a monopoly on lotteries and manages some temporary housing and programs; religious institutions related to the catholic church have a lot of programs too. Finally the plus one I'd say is that given a society with strong family connections, provides an additional safety net. This is a country where people often can't afford to move out until they're 30 and where grandparents often move back in. No expert in this. I'd say one big problem in the US is mental health care. I just spent two weeks in CA and couldn't believe how many insane homeless people there were in each and every street corner of LA and SF. It's unthinkable in most EU countries I know to have people with serious mental health conditions live in the streets. You are right, but also California is a wildly dysfunctional state and does not take good care of their homeless. Recently SF(highest income and housing costs in the US) tried to bus them out of the city(a common tactic, dumping them on another city that is willing pay for shelters). The homeless people just walked back to the city out of spite. They just don't want to spend money and would rather pass the cost on to some other town. I found it really strange given that the state votes heavily Democratic and is seemingly very progressive. Does this list sound right (rank by homeless ratio): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_populationThe US seems to actually have a decent ratio of homelessness - might it be that they're simply concentrated in the big cities? Canada, Australia and the UK have particularly high homeless ratios - must be that terrible anglosaxon culture. Yup. Our societies are more competitive and less family oriented and we have insane house prices. On the flipside:
That's coz yer mums' food is crap, innit. 
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On August 05 2017 02:40 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2017 02:37 bardtown wrote:On August 05 2017 02:23 warding wrote:On August 05 2017 02:17 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 02:11 warding wrote:On August 05 2017 01:55 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:52 Yurie wrote:On August 05 2017 01:49 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2017 01:47 a_flayer wrote:On August 05 2017 01:37 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
We should indeed just force people to relocate and work. I hear there are some empty camps in Siberia we might be able to use. That'd be troublesome. Those camps would have to be manned and put back into working order. Just send them to the US, they still operate their slave labor camps. Hey now, the tech industry and the H-1B visa program is more like indentured servitude. Much more progressive. I think he was referring to the for profit prison system industry. It is so hard to tell which messed up US system people are talking about. It is a tragedy of choices to mock this nation. EU question: Who do the EU nations handle emergency housing, shelters, and long term housing for the homeless? In broad strokes. The homeless and indigent are part of any nation, but I am curious and realizing how little I know about the systems that are in place. In Portugal I'd say you have three(plus one) entities operating - local governments create both temporary housing and social housing and create re-insertion programs (some by national government too); an institution whose name translates to "Holy House of Mercy" earns revenue from a monopoly on lotteries and manages some temporary housing and programs; religious institutions related to the catholic church have a lot of programs too. Finally the plus one I'd say is that given a society with strong family connections, provides an additional safety net. This is a country where people often can't afford to move out until they're 30 and where grandparents often move back in. No expert in this. I'd say one big problem in the US is mental health care. I just spent two weeks in CA and couldn't believe how many insane homeless people there were in each and every street corner of LA and SF. It's unthinkable in most EU countries I know to have people with serious mental health conditions live in the streets. You are right, but also California is a wildly dysfunctional state and does not take good care of their homeless. Recently SF(highest income and housing costs in the US) tried to bus them out of the city(a common tactic, dumping them on another city that is willing pay for shelters). The homeless people just walked back to the city out of spite. They just don't want to spend money and would rather pass the cost on to some other town. I found it really strange given that the state votes heavily Democratic and is seemingly very progressive. Does this list sound right (rank by homeless ratio): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_populationThe US seems to actually have a decent ratio of homelessness - might it be that they're simply concentrated in the big cities? Canada, Australia and the UK have particularly high homeless ratios - must be that terrible anglosaxon culture. Yup. Our societies are more competitive and less family oriented and we have insane house prices. On the flipside: That's coz yer mums' food is crap, innit.
That's the spirit. 
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I don't see living with the parents at under 25 to be a problem. Throwing the younguns out at age 18 like in the US is little more than expensive idiocy.
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I have never understood the sigma of living with your parents after adulthood. That is how my wife’s family and my family both managed to afford their first house. They both lived with their parents after marriage and well into their first child.
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It's pretty hard to get a higher education if are living with your parents in some rural place with 2000 inhabitants. 
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EPT
