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On January 12 2016 05:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 05:18 Nyxisto wrote:
If the Arab Spring showed one thing then how bad it really gets if the public order isn't there any more. And that's really the situation the refugees face as well. They come out of incredible strict and oppressive societies into very liberal nations and think they can do what they want. And instead of starting huge cultural discussions which is not only strange to immigrants that are already here, what these people will probably react more strongly to is a harsh reaction from the state that shows them that just because they can do something doesn't mean that they should.
I am very convinced that this is more productive than having occult debates about how this Surah or that Surah or Quran quote xy influences their libido, those 17 year old kids probably have no better understanding of their religion than anybody in this thread. I don't doubt that it would be productive to have a thorough process of explaining culture and all that stuff to immigrants. However, you can't pretend that will be quick. And you can't even pretend it will be effective. In the mean time, we are going to continue having events like NYE all throughout Europe, as evidenced by recent reports of Sweden's response to immigrant rapes. But as I understand, Europe as a whole should withstand these events for the sake of helping these migrants. So tell me, how much is too much? How many sexual assaults are worth helping each immigrant? If it was thousands a day you'd be opposed, what would you say is your cutoff? What increase in sexual assault rate is worth saving an immigrant to you?
Generally speaking at least as of November last year, the crime rate among the refugee population is not higher than the average crime rate in the country. (http://www.dw.com/en/report-refugees-have-not-increased-crime-rate-in-germany/a-18848890), stats reported by the Office of criminal investigation. You'll have to remember that we took in one million people this year alone, in the context of this NYE incident that might get lost sometimes.
We'll for sure have to adapt how public events take place. We'll need more police forces and security, just like in Britain or France at least until the process is more ordered. I can't give you a personal number or something. I guess as long as the public support is there it's doable. (which still is the case overall).
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IT'S TIME FOR A PURGE!!!!
The day of reckoning is coming!
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@Nyxisto - i'd not look at statistics right now since, as it turns out, hundreds of sexual assaults are hidden from those stats(by the police).
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Zurich15362 Posts
On January 12 2016 07:31 xM(Z wrote:
@Nyxisto - i'd not look at statistics right now since, as it turns out, hundreds of sexual assaults are hidden from those stats(by the police).
The German police? Where are you getting this from?
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On January 12 2016 07:38 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 07:31 xM(Z wrote:
@Nyxisto - i'd not look at statistics right now since, as it turns out, hundreds of sexual assaults are hidden from those stats(by the police). The German police? Where are you getting this from?
In swede apparently the police said it hid sexual assault in some event or something.
http://www.thelocal.se/20160111/police-reinvestigate-sex-crimes-at-teen-festival
Officers released the figures after the Dagens Nyheter (DN) newspaper reported it had seen a memo from last summer, warning police ahead of the event that there was a known "problem with young men who rub themselves against young girls" at the festival.
Police would not say how many men had been linked to the alleged assaults, but DN reported that as many as 50 Afghan refugees who had come to Sweden without their parents were suspected to be involved.
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Sweden police hidden stuff.
Germany has partnership with google and facebook to hide stuff about refugees.
How can you still believe any Germany statistics?
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It's the media that killed europe for real, almost everything made by politicians is tailored to pass on TV and to make the least noise. Like our educational system prefer lower standard than accepting that our youth is getting dumber and dumber (in France), and now it's the police that do everything it can to make it seem like everything is right in the land of the good, while the living conditions that were are not anymore.
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I seriously cannot believe some of these posts.
Feel free to quote me out of context, the point was simply that crime in the Arab world is punished in incredibly harsh fashion, to an oppressive degree even. The crime rates in the Arab world are among the lowest on the planet. There is no culture of uninhibited violence in the Arab World, the exact opposite is true.
I think this one takes the cake though.
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It seems to me that this one is really easy:
If one needs help, she should get it. Without question and without complaining about realities. If you cannot help anymore, ask others to join in. Everything else is inhumain.
If you don't feel like it or don't like to help or frown upon, because of reasons, I'm inclined to call you names, sucker! Feel free to get out of my neighborhood and look for a place where the like minded of you can fuck yourselfs up.
If the ones getting help frown upon or spit on your culture and won't ever recognise it as what it is and hate to live in it they are free to leave, most likely to join them fuckers there yonder where the suckers fuck themselfs up.
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If the Arab Spring showed one thing then how bad it really gets if the public order isn't there any more. And that's really the situation the refugees face as well. They come out of incredible strict and oppressive societies into very liberal nations and think they can do what they want. And instead of starting huge cultural discussions which is not only strange to immigrants that are already here, what these people will probably react more strongly to is a harsh reaction from the state that shows them that just because they can do something doesn't mean that they should.
That sounds like you are in favor for deportations for sexual offenders? As you said, they're used to incredible strict and harsh punishment, something that germany doesn't do. For anything. And i visited a "Jugendvollzugsanstalt" for 2 weeks 15 years ago. Our "harsh punishment" is vacation for someone like a syrian refugee (especially younger ones). And that's not populistic, that's a fact if you look at the "Rueckfallquoten" (repeated crimes?).
As you (correctly) stated, those people are used to fear the punishment if they get caught. In our society, those punishments are illegal (rightfully so, i want to add). But, and here's the problem, what we consider "harsh" (jailtime) does not deter people that are used to much worse stuff.
So.. In your mind, what needs to be done to show refugees that they can't do whatever they want - because, and that's also a fact and clear as nothing else, they consider our police and state weak (feel free to read up upon police officers around and especially in refugee camps). If a cop gets told "you can't do anything, merkel invited me", you might want to wonder if those people actually understand where they are.
Sidenote, did you remember when we argued about how we let refugees in the country, with no background checks etc, because the queues would get to long - and i said, that ridiculously stupid? Did you see how high the percentage is of illegals in regards to NYE?
edit: and preferably, that has to happen before it gets warmer, or clothing shorter. Because (also a fact), a short skirt or being out too late makes a girl a slut, hence fair game.
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On January 12 2016 17:33 Schmobutzen wrote:
If the ones getting help frown upon or spit on your culture and won't ever recognise it as what it is and hate to live in it they are free to leave, most likely to join them fuckers there yonder where the suckers fuck themselfs up.
Why would anyone who lives by collecting benefits in Western Europe ever leave and go to Africa or the Middle East lmao.
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You do realise that those "german news" articles are written to enforce a xenophobic anti liberal opinion? They warp facts.
-New years eve: The police force has to be distributed all over the country. Party and risk of violence everywhere! There's only so much police you know... And nobody did recon with the cologne situation.
-Protests like the one against rape have to be announced, approved and organised. Considering the situation with the possibility of violent xenophobes trying to force an escalation, of course there will be a more than decent police force present. Because it's available.
Feel free to mention more of those hate mongering sources, i'll be happy to explain the real situation to you. BTW, what kind of Purge where you referring to in the post before? Care to elaborate? It would be much appreciated!
Of course the media and police looked really bad, but there's certain reasons for that. The media e.g.: In Germany there's a certain code of behavior for the press. If you disregard those rules, there will be fines and the like. "Bild", "Express" e.g. regularly get fines and complaints for disregarding it. A vast majority of the press abides by those laws though. Part of that code is, when is the press allowed to mention ethnicity? Unfortunately, the criteria for that wasn't met. Thievery and groping is not enough. The rape would have been enough though, but the situation was unclear.
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On January 12 2016 20:22 r00ty wrote:You do realise that those "german news" articles are written to enforce a xenophobic anti liberal opinion? They warp facts. -New years eve: The police force has to be distributed all over the country. Party and risk of violence everywhere! There's only so much police you know... And nobody did recon with the cologne situation. -Protests like the one against rape have to be announced, approved and organised. Considering the situation with the possibility of violent xenophobes trying to force an escalation, of course there will be a more than decent police force present. Because it's available. Feel free to mention more of those hate mongering sources, i'll be happy to explain the real situation to you. BTW, what kind of Purge where you referring to in the post before? Care to elaborate? It would be much appreciated! Of course the media and police looked really bad, but there's certain reasons for that. The media e.g.: In Germany there's a certain code of behavior for the press. If you disregard those rules, there will be fines and the like. "Bild", "Express" e.g. regularly get fines and complaints for disregarding it. A vast majority of the press abides by those laws though. Part of that code is, when is the press allowed to mention ethnicity? Unfortunately, the criteria for that wasn't met. Thievery and groping is not enough. The rape would have been enough though, but the situation was unclear.
Try harder. The only agenda media are pushing for is the liberal 'welcome everyone or else you are a racist monster'.
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Of course the media and police looked really bad, but there's certain reasons for that. The media e.g.: In Germany there's a certain code of behavior for the press. If you disregard those rules, there will be fines and the like. "Bild", "Express" e.g. regularly get fines and complaints for disregarding it. A vast majority of the press abides by those laws though. Part of that code is, when is the press allowed to mention ethnicity? Unfortunately, the criteria for that wasn't met. Thievery and groping is not enough. The rape would have been enough though, but the situation was unclear.
Bullshit. There's no laws that prevent the declaration of ethnicity, apart from if it is considered harmful to an ongoing police investigation. Not the case.
What you're talking about is the press codex, that's now law. What it actually is, is self-censoring. And many journalists are against that, not to mention.
And, actually, deceiving. If i read news of mass rapes (or mass violence, for that matter, which apparently is not a problem if it's hooligans etc), i want to know where that came from. Otherwise this gets used for systematic warping of public views - which is exactly what happened right after NYE.
That's not a good thing and should not be defended. Yes, it's supposed to "prevent prejudice", but all it does, is incite even worse so. People still assume that immigrants are responsible for certain things (like NYE, people said right away that it wasn't germans). That makes the whole "we want to protect minorities" stuff bullshit - all it does, is that you lose trust into medias as well. That's where the "Luegenpresse" stuff comes from. And honestly? While i disagree with the term, it certainly is a fact that german media heavily tries to influence the population by leaving out important facts.
We just invited more than a million refugees. I'd like to know if they misbehave, i certainly don't trust the german government to act if they don't have to fear that they'll enrage the population at some point.
edit:
10 dead and 15 injured in suicide bombing in istanbul, aimed at tourists, many of them german.
edit2: german police (edit: to be more specific, the head of the BKA) now stated that the attacks on NYE were NOT random. The offenders were communicating and planning via social media - but not organized crime (which in germany is considered enclosed groups with hierarchic structures).
And, very surprisingly, german government just issued a statement, drastically "harshening" deportation rules. Under which pretty much every offender of NYE can be deported regardless of asylum status.
And yes. That includes syrians.
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On January 12 2016 20:56 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 20:22 r00ty wrote:You do realise that those "german news" articles are written to enforce a xenophobic anti liberal opinion? They warp facts. -New years eve: The police force has to be distributed all over the country. Party and risk of violence everywhere! There's only so much police you know... And nobody did recon with the cologne situation. -Protests like the one against rape have to be announced, approved and organised. Considering the situation with the possibility of violent xenophobes trying to force an escalation, of course there will be a more than decent police force present. Because it's available. Feel free to mention more of those hate mongering sources, i'll be happy to explain the real situation to you. BTW, what kind of Purge where you referring to in the post before? Care to elaborate? It would be much appreciated! Of course the media and police looked really bad, but there's certain reasons for that. The media e.g.: In Germany there's a certain code of behavior for the press. If you disregard those rules, there will be fines and the like. "Bild", "Express" e.g. regularly get fines and complaints for disregarding it. A vast majority of the press abides by those laws though. Part of that code is, when is the press allowed to mention ethnicity? Unfortunately, the criteria for that wasn't met. Thievery and groping is not enough. The rape would have been enough though, but the situation was unclear. Try harder. The only agenda media are pushing for is the liberal 'welcome everyone or else you are a racist monster'.
The two of you are talking about different sorts of media here. While the mainstream media is more liberal (Though not to the degree that you are talking about), and apparently failed quite hard in regards to the NYE situation, the quoted article is on Breitbart, which is distinctly a far-right news agency which tends to push an agenda rather hard and with a distinct disregard for facts.
For example, in that piece, a Pegida demonstration clashed with the police, because (even Breitbart admits that) people in the demonstration started throwing fireworks and attacking the police. Now, without anything supporting this narrative, Breitbart instantly implies that that was in fact the result of police agent provocateurs turning the nice friendly Pegida demonstration violent just to be able to shoot them with water cannons afterwards.
It also makes absolutely no mention as to why it is a lot easier to have police at a protest that has been previously announced and very localised, as opposed to everywhere in Germany on New Years Eve.
If you can not detect that this piece of media is incredibly biased, i have no idea what to say.
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In all honesty, breitbart is the US daily mail. I don't know why anyone would read or cite it anyway.
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On January 12 2016 21:18 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 20:56 SoSexy wrote:On January 12 2016 20:22 r00ty wrote:You do realise that those "german news" articles are written to enforce a xenophobic anti liberal opinion? They warp facts. -New years eve: The police force has to be distributed all over the country. Party and risk of violence everywhere! There's only so much police you know... And nobody did recon with the cologne situation. -Protests like the one against rape have to be announced, approved and organised. Considering the situation with the possibility of violent xenophobes trying to force an escalation, of course there will be a more than decent police force present. Because it's available. Feel free to mention more of those hate mongering sources, i'll be happy to explain the real situation to you. BTW, what kind of Purge where you referring to in the post before? Care to elaborate? It would be much appreciated! Of course the media and police looked really bad, but there's certain reasons for that. The media e.g.: In Germany there's a certain code of behavior for the press. If you disregard those rules, there will be fines and the like. "Bild", "Express" e.g. regularly get fines and complaints for disregarding it. A vast majority of the press abides by those laws though. Part of that code is, when is the press allowed to mention ethnicity? Unfortunately, the criteria for that wasn't met. Thievery and groping is not enough. The rape would have been enough though, but the situation was unclear. Try harder. The only agenda media are pushing for is the liberal 'welcome everyone or else you are a racist monster'. The two of you are talking about different sorts of media here. While the mainstream media is more liberal (Though not to the degree that you are talking about), and apparently failed quite hard in regards to the NYE situation, the quoted article is on Breitbart, which is distinctly a far-right news agency which tends to push an agenda rather hard and with a distinct disregard for facts. For example, in that piece, a Pegida demonstration clashed with the police, because (even Breitbart admits that) people in the demonstration started throwing fireworks and attacking the police. Now, without anything supporting this narrative, Breitbart instantly implies that that was in fact the result of police agent provocateurs turning the nice friendly Pegida demonstration violent just to be able to shoot them with water cannons afterwards. It also makes absolutely no mention as to why it is a lot easier to have police at a protest that has been previously announced and very localised, as opposed to everywhere in Germany on New Years Eve. If you can not detect that this piece of media is incredibly biased, i have no idea what to say.
That Breitbart article is referencing a video that supposedly shows a journalist behind the police line dropping a firework on the ground. Its blurry as fuck and you can't see the firework being dropped or coming from the crowd. They're reaching pretty hard.
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On January 12 2016 17:33 Schmobutzen wrote:
If the ones getting help frown upon or spit on your culture and won't ever recognise it as what it is and hate to live in it they are free to leave, most likely to join them fuckers there yonder where the suckers fuck themselfs up.
Why would anyone who lives by collecting benefits in Western Europe ever leave and go to Africa or the Middle East lmao.
Of course you could and should read my statement with the idea that this can be an enforceable law. And then it doesn't sound as weak.
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EPT
