EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 380
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:12 hfglgg wrote: read the commentary in the faz of today. titel "sie hassen uns". yes it is normal. Ah, so "there" for you is Morocco and Algeria, which that FAZ piece is exclusively about. Maybe you should a specified that, the "Arabian world" isn't very specific (and most Moroccans would probably reject the term being applied to them). The Arab world is much larger than those two countries, and much more diverse than words like "them" or "there" suggest. There are of course enormous problems especially with gender in most if not all of those countries, but summing them up under "us vs the uncivilized world" really doesn't do this discussion a service in general and in this forum specifically. Plus it makes you appear really dumb. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:28 zatic wrote: Ah, so "there" for you is Morocco and Algeria, which that FAZ piece is exclusively about. Maybe you should a specified that, the "Arabian world" isn't very specific (and most Moroccans would probably reject the term being applied to them). The Arab world is much larger than those two countries, and much more diverse than words like "them" or "there" suggest. There are of course enormous problems especially with gender in most if not all of those countries, but summing them up under "us vs the uncivilized world" really doesn't do this discussion a service in general and in this forum specifically. Plus it makes you appear really dumb. Please provide examples of Arabic countries that are progressive and liberal by the general Western definition of the word. | ||
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Saumure
France404 Posts
On January 12 2016 02:56 dismiss wrote: Maybe he should have stayed at arms length from the kid?  Would not work, the kid had a machete (from lefigaro.fr) src in english: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/1.696814 | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:28 zatic wrote: Ah, so "there" for you is Morocco and Algeria, which that FAZ piece is exclusively about. Maybe you should a specified that, the "Arabian world" isn't very specific (and most Moroccans would probably reject the term being applied to them). The Arab world is much larger than those two countries, and much more diverse than words like "them" or "there" suggest. There are of course enormous problems especially with gender in most if not all of those countries, but summing them up under "us vs the uncivilized world" really doesn't do this discussion a service in general and in this forum specifically. Plus it makes you appear really dumb. if you think that our way of life is even remotely shared anywhere else in the world you are dumb. yes the article is only about algeria and morocco because the author only lived in those two, but if you take the numbers of women being molested in egypt (99.3%) or the terrible conditions women have to live under on the arabien peninsula it paints a clear picture. yes maybe there is one country where women are respected but that doesnt change the fact that the people on nye did what they did at home. On January 12 2016 03:34 Nyxisto wrote: The systemic issues in the Islamic and Arab world more specifically when it comes to women are domestic issues. Relationships between husband and wives, brothers trying to tell their sisters what to do and so on. That is a relevant issue that's also prevalent in the immigrant communities here. Assaulting someone openly in most Arabic nations is, if anything, a good way to lose your head. no. simply no. actually, you should read the commentary. people like you who are extremely apologetic to everything that coming from the muslim and arabien world are one of the reasons why those countries are the shitholes they are now. maybe stop throwing your ideals and values over board just because you want the poor underdog to not be so bad. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:36 dismiss wrote: Please provide examples of Arabic countries that are progressive and liberal by the general Western definition of the word. Huh? Like you and I know well there aren't any, and all Arab countries have enormous problems especially with gender. hfggl: Really, you should probably get out of your town more often. I usually hate to cite anecdotal evidence, but in the end that's all your FAZ piece offered as well. Anyway I have lived in or traveled to Arab countries like Saudi, Jordan, UAE, Katar, Bahrain, Oman. While all of them have enormous problems especially with gender, scenes like they happened in Cologne are simply not "normal" there. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:36 hfglgg wrote: no. simply no. actually, you should read the commentary. people like you who are extremely apologetic to everything that coming from the muslim and arabien world are one of the reasons why those countries are the shitholes they are now. maybe stop throwing your ideals and values over board just because you want the poor underdog to not be so bad. Very much so. Taking Egypt, during an ongoing revolution with no real government as an example makes about as much sense as characterizing French society by using La Terreur. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:41 Nyxisto wrote: Very much so. Taking Egypt, during an ongoing revolution with no real government as an example makes about as much sense as characterizing French society by using La Terreur. so women are only harassed in egypt (again: 99.3%) because they had a few years of turmoil? sorry but what? | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:41 Nyxisto wrote: Very much so. Taking Egypt, during an ongoing revolution with no real government as an example makes about as much sense as characterizing French society by using La Terreur. It'd be pretty frightening, as a woman, when you realize that the only reason you aren't being raped is because the potential rapist would rather not face the consequences of his actions. Pretty frightening to be around people who would do terrible things if they could get away with it. :/ Sorry man, those people are scum. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:44 Nyxisto wrote: Where is that 99% number even coming from? why? are you doubting it? well for example here: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/egypt-99-women-have-been-sexually-harassed-180951726/?no-ist moneyquote: The women reported that in the vast majority of cases—84.6 percent—passers-by did nothing to stop the harassment or support the woman surely lost their head. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:45 Incognoto wrote: It'd be pretty frightening, as a woman, when you realize that the only reason you aren't being raped is because the potential rapist would rather not face the consequences of his actions. Pretty frightening to be around people who would do terrible things if they could get away with it. :/ Sorry man, those people are scum. I really can't wrap my head around how you people can go from me disagreeing with the statement "the Arab world is full of sex offenders and violent people" which is untrue, to "hey look this guy is defending criminals and relativizes rape!!" Just because I'm not making uneducated blanket statements about all of the Arab World and descent into a Dawkins level of religious criticism doesn't mean that I have any sympathy for those criminals. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:45 Incognoto wrote: It'd be pretty frightening, as a woman, when you realize that the only reason you aren't being raped is because the potential rapist would rather not face the consequences of his actions. Pretty frightening to be around people who would do terrible things if they could get away with it. Unfortunately that is true for a large number of people. It's not like we have a lack of examples from all over the world that a breakdown of public order leads to rising violent crime including rape. Just like you said, sadly a large number of people are only being kept in check by the consequences they face in orderly societies. | ||
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:39 zatic wrote: Huh? Like you and I know well there aren't any, and all Arab countries have enormous problems especially with gender. Well, then it stands to reason that a group of people which is muddled together for the purpose of identifying their general politicial/ideological/religious/we ideology is a valid classification, doesn't it? From my, admittedly limited, knowledge of the Arab world it appears as if the Leitkultur across most countries is a medieval, barbaric mess. You can differentiate between what gradients of abuse are acceptable in different countries but the prevailing attitude towards women's rights will remain the same. It doesn't make someone appear any more or less intelligent than stating that Western Europe in general is very liberal. | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:34 Nyxisto wrote: Assaulting someone openly in most Arabic nations is, if anything, a good way to lose your head. Just because I'm not making uneducated blanket statements about all of the Arab World haha no you are only making uneducated statements about most arabic nations. go on, you are being ridiculous. :D | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Sweden’s prime minister has condemned a “double betrayal” of women after allegations that police covered up sexual harassment by recent immigrants at a music festival in Stockholm. Meanwhile, reports have emerged of attacks on women in Malmö on New Year’s Eve. Groups of refugees molested concertgoers at We Are Stockholm, Europe’s largest youth festival, in the summer of 2014, according to internal police memos obtained by Dagens Nyheter, a daily newspaper. “These are so-called refugee youths, specifically from Afghanistan. Several of the gang were arrested for sexual molestation,” one police memo said. Yet the official police report on the five-day festival attended by 170,000 young people aged mainly 13-19 made no mention of sexual harassment or assaults. The prime minister, Stefan Löfven, said this amounted to a double betrayal since no one was prosecuted for the crimes and the police did not make them public. Source | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On January 12 2016 03:54 hfglgg wrote: haha no you are only making uneducated statements about most arabic nations. go on, you are being ridiculous. :D Feel free to quote me out of context, the point was simply that crime in the Arab world is punished in incredibly harsh fashion, to an oppressive degree even. The crime rates in the Arab world are among the lowest on the planet. There is no culture of uninhibited violence in the Arab World, the exact opposite is true. | ||
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Narw
Poland884 Posts
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
On January 12 2016 04:04 Nyxisto wrote: Feel free to quote me out of context, the point was simply that crime in the Arab world is punished in incredibly harsh fashion, to an oppressive degree even. The crime rates in the Arab world are among the lowest on the planet. There is no culture of uninhibited violence in the Arab World, the exact opposite is true. Wait, so you're saying a culture in which beheading, stoning, and lashing people are among the common punishments is not violent? | ||
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