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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 329

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18292 Posts
November 02 2015 11:29 GMT
#6561
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
November 02 2015 11:46 GMT
#6562
On November 02 2015 12:12 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2015 11:53 WhiteDog wrote:
But how do you exactly can, today, legitimize "more europe" ? On what ground ?

rise of nationalism for one.


I'm unsure how that is an argument? Would you care to expand? I.e. why should we have "more EU" if the people all living in (supposedly) democracies are increasingly nationalistic? That seems like a counter-argument as enforcing more EU would be against the will of the people - what am I missing?
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-02 12:12:57
November 02 2015 12:02 GMT
#6563
i took it to mean - see EU as a nation and just shift local(of countries) nationalism towards it. it can work but it's a double edge sword because that nationalism has expectations and if you screw it up it could get way worse than a totally ineffectual commission.

if US would've played on the nationalism of the old Eastern block, it could've had Russia sucking at its teat now; instead, they did their stupid divide and conquer shenanigans(playing with the extremists) which cost them years and years of progression.

And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
November 03 2015 03:25 GMT
#6564
On November 02 2015 20:29 Acrofales wrote:
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"


"Is there nothing more to history than the praise of Rome?"
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
November 03 2015 09:04 GMT
#6565
How come the British House of Lords is still a thing? o.O Genuine question.
Writer
Krikkitone
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1451 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-03 14:51:04
November 03 2015 14:50 GMT
#6566
On November 03 2015 18:04 Souma wrote:
How come the British House of Lords is still a thing? o.O Genuine question.


Same reason the British (or almost any other European) monarchy is still a thing. No real power, but it looks nice to have a national voice that is 'above politics'
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-03 15:04:15
November 03 2015 15:02 GMT
#6567
Also, inertia. The monarchy (and nobility) hasn't done anything for which removing it is warranted.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6274 Posts
November 03 2015 16:04 GMT
#6568
The house of Lords does have power. Iirc there have been plenty of reform proposals even as recently as 2012 but I'm not sure why it never got reformed.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
November 03 2015 16:06 GMT
#6569
You got to consider what it takes to abolish hundreds of year old political institutions. There usually has to be a will to abolish it by the powers to be or utter control of a country through invasion and total occupation from either civil or foreign war. Is there a will to remove the House of Lords? Not really, even though they are acknowledged as an anachronism. Is UK currently under total occupation of a power hostile to the institutions of UK? No.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-03 17:01:19
November 03 2015 17:01 GMT
#6570
Isn't the house of lords the regular upper chamber of the parliament? I'd call that pretty far from heaving "no power".
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9299 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-03 17:21:49
November 03 2015 17:21 GMT
#6571
On November 04 2015 02:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Isn't the house of lords the regular upper chamber of the parliament? I'd call that pretty far from heaving "no power".


Just because they're called the upper chamber doesn't mean they have power. Our upper chamber (Senate) also doesn't have any real power and people often propose getting rid of it but it would be a hassle so we just leave it as it is. They can be kind of useful in correcting bad laws but they can't do anything without the lower chamber's approval. I'm guessing it's like this in UK too. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
You're now breathing manually
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-03 17:38:31
November 03 2015 17:38 GMT
#6572
It has some power, but mostly it only ever uses it to counter the House of Commons on issues of genuine concern, such as civil liberties, which is why there is little will to abolish it. Most attempts to reform it stem from the wierdness of hereditary and political peers as well as the sheer numbers of peers. Oddly enough, the House of Lords although unelected, debate and scrutinise bills with far more rigour than the House of Commons does.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 03 2015 18:06 GMT
#6573
I do not find that surprising, an overview of stuff in America also finds that the unelected people often do a better job than the elected people.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 03 2015 19:01 GMT
#6574
Swapping leaders every X years is not exactly a good way to breed experience. Tyranny is also a concern though, so it's clear that we need both.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11840 Posts
November 03 2015 19:22 GMT
#6575
Also, it is important to note that the british skipped that part in history where you get rid of the monarchy, proclaim that you are a democracy now and either murder all of the aristocracy or say that they don't have any power anymore and legally aren't aristocracy, after which you proceed to elect a dictator and start a gigantic war.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 03 2015 19:33 GMT
#6576
Well they did have something along those lines but ended up choosing constitutional monarchy instead. Went much more smoothly than, say, the years following the French Revolution.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 03 2015 19:48 GMT
#6577
On November 04 2015 04:01 LegalLord wrote:
Swapping leaders every X years is not exactly a good way to breed experience. Tyranny is also a concern though, so it's clear that we need both.

Its not clear that experience in governing is actually a positive though. In Washington DC, Ottowa, or Brussels (the three I'm most familiar with) the opposite seems to be true because long stays at the seat of power seems to foment an echo chamber mindset.
Freeeeeeedom
maartendq
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Belgium3115 Posts
November 03 2015 19:55 GMT
#6578
Austria seeks to limit the duration a refugee can stay in the country, as well as tightens the rules for family renion: migrants on special refugee benefits ("subsidiary protection") will be unable to bring their families over for three years, and after three years their refugee status will be re-evaluated, and canceled if the country they are from is no longer considered unsafe by the authorities.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/oesterreich-grosse-koalition-verschaerft-asylrecht-a-1060939.html

In English:
http://www.dpa-international.com/news/international/austria-to-put-time-limit-on-refugee-protection-a-47174950.html

Of course, humanitarian organisations, left-wing parties and the UNHCR are not amused.

It seems to me that the Greek crisis earlier this year and the refugee crisis now have completely polarised the political landscape. It's incredibly hard to find moderate voices in the whole debate.

Personally I'd rather see countries invest heavily in assimilating (rather than integrating) the refugees into society by investing heavily in their and their children's education, but since the whole of western Europe is in budget consilidation mode (and will be for the forseeable future) the opposite is happening: countries want to spend as little money on refugees as possible.

I'm also still convinced that well-funded and co-operatively run hotspots in the EU border countries is a better solution that tolerating the current streams of what are essentially illegal immigrants we have absolutely no control over. But then again, that'd require the EU member states to actually agree on something, which at this point in time is extremely unlikely (I can't believe than I'm getting as cynical as WhiteDog what EU affairs are concerned ;-) ).
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10886 Posts
November 03 2015 19:56 GMT
#6579
On November 04 2015 04:22 Simberto wrote:
Also, it is important to note that the british skipped that part in history where you get rid of the monarchy, proclaim that you are a democracy now and either murder all of the aristocracy or say that they don't have any power anymore and legally aren't aristocracy, after which you proceed to elect a dictator and start a gigantic war.



French are the worst, they kinda did both :p
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
November 03 2015 19:57 GMT
#6580
On November 02 2015 12:12 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2015 11:53 WhiteDog wrote:
But how do you exactly can, today, legitimize "more europe" ? On what ground ?

rise of nationalism for one.

Also, basic economico-diplomatic importance on the international level. Look how not influential the European countries are separately, even Germany is laughable and can only give an illusion of importance when compared with the big guns that are the US, Russia and China ; the only way to resolve this is with a more unified Europe. And I won't even talk about the military. "More Europe" is the only way to go if we want to avoid a disaster.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
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