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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
I think you missed the point, when it's a small group or a few individuals, integration is easy, cuz they're willing to change their lifestyle, and the people around them are willing to accept. [QUOTE] Unless they have been indoctrinated from a very early age that integration into western culture is a mortal sin and that their warmongering prophet is the only authority they can accept. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10853 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9280 Posts
Someone linked an article saying that our possible new right-wing PM said she will reverse the decision to accept more refugees. That's not true. Opposition always criticizes the government but if someone paid attention to our internal politics he should notice that our mainstream parties have pretty much the same view on accepting refugees. It could be summed up like this: "We want and can accept refugees, but we want control over who we are accepting and we don't want Germany to force us to do what they want". Yes, 2k for Poland isn't a lot. Neither are 5 or 12 or 20k. We can accept that many refugees but we can't afford to give them support on German level. We can't build houses with wi-fi for them (lol), we can't give 10k € each refugee for a fresh start and we don't have well paid jobs for people who don't know Polish. If you don't believe that refugees/immigrants treat Poland like a transit country you can check how many Chechen immigrants stayed here after 1994, when we started accepting refugees from Russia. They took what we could offer them and migrated (mostly illegally) to the West because obviously it's more profitable to stay in Germany. Also please keep in mind that Poland voted to accept more refugees. Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia and maybe Romania voted no. Finland abstained. Maybe focus your criticism on them instead of us. | ||
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Narw
Poland884 Posts
On September 25 2015 22:36 Velr wrote: Yes the 1 to 100 number was obviously not 100% serious ugh... I just said that to make clear that, while there are many refugees, its nowhere near as many as right wing populists like to make People believe when compared to actual population numbers. People like you are the reason, we are in this mess. Yes, some migrants are more willing to Assimilate/Fit in than others BUT putting tons of migrants (or any other Group low on the economic ladder) together in one place is allways a bad thing to do. How you "force" someone to Assimilate is up to discussion, there are many, many ways to do this. One important way, especially for muslims, would imho be to have (only) "in europe studied" Imams instead of importing ones from the places these people came from in the first place.... +Yes, the large majority of them doesn't want to stay in Romania/Greece/Hungary or on some Islandcamp in Italy... And i don't blame them and also don't think the poor EU Countries should have to take in as many as the rich ones. But there are plenty of places that are just or nearly as attractive as Germany (Scandinavia, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, France, GB, Ireland, Italy, Belgium…) and others that are also more than ok, I honestly don’t know enough about other eastern countries but i don't see a big reason that speaks for example against Poland. No, distributing them fairly won’t be easy. But just keeping all of them in Italy/Greece/Hungary for sure won’t make it any easier. Once they are assigned to a country, you could also begin to send them back there if they leave again. The situation how it is atm is just basically a worst case Scenario and that needs to be solved asap. Help them both? And if it would be a question of Money to help them "there", we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. Money isn't the issue. We also could stop selling them our cheap food or at least stop subsidising our own farmers (good luck trying that...) so their agriculture could actually be self sustaining and farmers could make a living that goes over bare survival... And btw. 2000 for Poland isn't alot, no matter how you look at it, no matter how much you don't want them. 2000 in a Country of damn near 40 MILLION People is under 0.05%. Its a damn fart and you wouldn't even notice it. Its not even enough to Count as a gesture. Switzerland 4k average salary, Poland 700 euro. You think they will stay here? What if they don't want to stay here, what we are supposed to do? Jail em when they try to cross border? Your numbers are also way off, please at least check before you throw em randomly, thank you. "From January till September 10th. 245 Syrians applied for refugee status in Poland, 160 from whom were brought here by some kind of Estera Foundation. From those 160, 86 immediatly after recieving the refugee status left Poland and went to other countries in Western Europe. " Wrote that many pages ago. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On September 25 2015 23:51 Velr wrote: Mr. Romanian xmwhatever... I don't remember any post of yours that had any traces of an intelligent argument. You agreeing on anything with me would most likely make me physically ill. yep, i won't even... not even gonna go there, at all. it's just to easy, you are to easy. glhf | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
[QUOTE]On September 25 2015 22:21 Geo.Rion wrote: I think you missed the point, when it's a small group or a few individuals, integration is easy, cuz they're willing to change their lifestyle, and the people around them are willing to accept. [QUOTE] Unless they have been indoctrinated from a very early age that integration into western culture is a mortal sin and that their warmongering prophet is the only authority they can accept. [/QUOTE] well, if you go by the book, ye... I do think there is a large enough portion of muslim believers (not to say majority, as most hardcore-liberals do), who cherry-pick the Qoran similarily how christans cherry pick the bible. Not to put an = mark between the two, but there have been many success stories in different countries with integrating muslim imigrants. My point was, when they come in numbers like this and under these cirumstances, there really inst much chance for that to happen. | ||
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Klowney
Sweden277 Posts
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
That's why it makes me sick to see Merkel pretending to be oh so altruistic, as if politicians followed their hearts instead of industrial mandates. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 26 2015 01:22 DickMcFanny wrote: Because the projected contribution to the GPD of a 20 year old immigrant is larger than that of a 50 year old native. That's why it makes me sick to see Merkel pretending to be oh so altruistic, as if politicians followed their hearts instead of industrial mandates. Its the only political play she has for this. She can't tell voters is because the immigrants and refugees will be hard workers and worth more to the economy. That will go over like a fart in a spacesuit. | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
On September 25 2015 22:03 Geo.Rion wrote: Sure, closing the border is a bad option for several reasons, but sure as hell beats the alternative that the neo-liberal, extreme leftists are spouting. Which is basically, do nothing, and speak about humanitarian values and morals. ¿Wat? That's mostly not the left then. Social ultraliberals or something like that. If they favour left-wing economics they might be consider the "new left" (because they focus on social rather than economic matters and have a penchant for touting forms of reverse discrimination as totally helping equality). ..but if they're neoliberals, that's the right wing, it's just socially liberal right wing. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On September 26 2015 01:43 Plansix wrote: Its the only political play she has for this. She can't tell voters is because the immigrants and refugees will be hard workers and worth more to the economy. That will go over like a fart in a spacesuit. Actually most people are well aware that our social systems are unsustainable without immigration, it just doesn't hit the foreign media as much as Merkel's recent comments. I also still don't understand what's so controversial about them, she just acknowledged that "there is no upper refugee limit" as our constitution guarantees every person who comes here the right to apply for asylum, which means that we can't categorically deny people that right. | ||
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Narw
Poland884 Posts
What is not ok is trying to force em on the rest of Europe when there are clearly countries that don't feel the same kind of social responsiblily/don't have resources/their infrastructure isn't ready/ whatever other reason. | ||
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
Now why would they stay in Romania? There are already initiatives to approximate asylum law in different European countries - you won't get much more in one country than in another _and_ you only get something from the country you are assigned to. That is all planned as far as I know and if done correctly could be a relieve for whole Europe. If it will all work out and how exactly I don't know. The idea to solve Germany's retirement system with an immigration of refugees I find ridiculous. How you can even think this is a good idea is beyond me. If Germany really needs immigration we should do it like Canada and take only those we need and not everybody for example people who can't even read or write. I'd rather prefer we would do something for average and lower income families in Germany. Personally I want it like it is in France with a really healthy family policy. And I very much prefer people from all over Europe coming to Germany to work here than people from elsewhere. Sad thing I will probably have to wait for the next election and pray Merkel has to go then. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18220 Posts
On September 26 2015 02:50 Narw wrote: I don't think there is anyone from other parts of Europe that is trying to tell you what to do within your country borders. if you want to accept refuges/people posing as refuges it's your risk to take. If you want to ensure em that they will find asylum it's your right. What is not ok is trying to force em on the rest of Europe when there are clearly countries that don't feel the same kind of social responsiblily/don't have resources/their infrastructure isn't ready/ whatever other reason. This is the type of ostrich thinking that makes the problem worse instead of finding a solution. Just because you say that it's a German problem and stick your head in the sand while the Germans sort it out, doesn't make that so. It is a European problem, because the vast majority of these asylum seekers are sitting on an island in Greece or Italy, or are in Serbia or Hungary. Those that have reached Germany are mostly not a problem anymore. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 26 2015 04:47 DickMcFanny wrote: Actually it's an US (and maybe a bit UK) problem. Of course the states won't deal with the problem, but they have caused the mess. We are just getting you back for Israel and Palestine. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On September 26 2015 04:50 Plansix wrote: We are just getting you back for Israel and Palestine. What? You're responsible for the mess over there as well. If you stopped writing Netanyahu a card blanche, Gaza wouldn't be the mess it is now, Israel wouldn't be a thorn in the sight of every single of its neighbours, Israel would need to honour the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Pact, Israel would be subject to the same inspections Iran is, Palestinians wouldn't get Cosby'd... Shall I go on? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 26 2015 04:55 DickMcFanny wrote: What? You're responsible for the mess over there as well. If you stopped writing Netanyahu a card blanche, Gaza wouldn't be the mess it is now, Israel wouldn't be a thorn in the sight of every single of its neighbours, Israel would need to honour the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Pact, Israel would be subject to the same inspections Iran is, Palestinians wouldn't get Cosby'd... Shall I go on? You need to go farther back to the 1940s and how Israel was created. And who lived there before the UN decided that Israel needed to be a nation. And who brought that suggestion before the UN. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
But who cares, the only victims thus far are brown people. And the rest of the world pretty soon. | ||
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