EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 304
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On September 25 2015 09:15 Toadesstern wrote: For sure, if they don't build more houses in the future that's a problem but that's why I said I read it as temporary solution over this winter. If it's unchanged next year that's a huge issue but we're not there yet. And again, that one case seems to be one single, highly sketchy case and not the norm. So it seems. Then again, let's wait for a couple of days, because this case took almost two weeks to surface. And councils etc certainly look at those possibilities. | ||
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
On September 25 2015 09:09 Nyxisto wrote: Yes, in very rare cases. The case in question was such a case, people aren't getting thrown out of their apartments by the dozens or hundreds. No, this was a mayor being to full of himself, not her house being miraculously being placed in the middle of the path they want to build a new freeway in. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On September 25 2015 09:17 Paljas wrote: Other countrys dont seem to be willing to take more right now. What are you going to do, if not sending them back to Syria? .. eh? Other countries don't WANT to take refugees, and we CAN not. How is "take more in" the correct solution then? And yes, at some point, germanies interests should get a consideration as well. I do agree that it shouldn't be a priority, but it shouldn't be completely ignored either. Now the interesting bit: yes. I do think, that if the boat is full, "close the borders". Everything else is stupid - and not even helping refugees. edit: interesting sidenote, since a friend of mine was actually working on that: it would be much easier to house those people if we were to actually comfort basic needs and not luxury. In Essen, a new "place" for asylumseekers was build recently. His company was paid more than 10k to support WiFi(!!) to that place. I've yet to see an explanation for that. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On September 25 2015 09:22 m4ini wrote: .. eh? Other countries don't WANT to take refugees, and we CAN not. How is "take more in" the correct solution then? And yes, at some point, germanies interests should get a consideration as well. I do agree that it shouldn't be a priority, but it shouldn't be completely ignored either. Now the interesting bit: yes. I do think, that if the boat is full, "close the borders". Everything else is stupid - and not even helping refugees. Send back to Syria it is then. His company was paid more than 10k to support WiFi(!!) to that place. I've yet to see an explanation for that. People use the internet to communicate with their families. Hardly luxury. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
Interesting way to argue. People use the internet to communicate with their families. Hardly luxury. Hehe, cute. So how come, that apparently, if you're on the benefit system, it actually IS considered luxury? Since when is a room with 10 computers, where everyone gets 30 minutes or something each "unacceptable"? Really? | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
Sorry, these seem to be the only possibilities right now. Ofc, it would be great if the situation would be better, but it isnt. Not sure whats so controverisal about this. On September 25 2015 09:33 m4ini wrote: Hehe, cute. So how come, that apparently, if you're on the benefit system, it actually IS considered luxury? Since when is a room with 10 computers, where everyone gets 30 minutes or something each "unacceptable"? Really? Our benefit system has many flaws, that is probably the reason. Also, your average german person doesnt have most of his/her family living 1000 of miles away in a dictatorship or war area. Also, I am not sure if you witnessed the situations in the refugees camps right now. Let me tell you, its not pretty. A room with 10 computers is simply not enough. WiFi is much easier. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On September 25 2015 09:42 Nyxisto wrote: access to the internet is considered to be a right for a few years now, there was a constitutional court decision a while ago. It's not really scandalous either, you can't really do anything without an internet connection today. Never really said that. I asked why it needs to be free Wi Fi (non restricted btw) for tens of thousands of euros, if restricted time on a supplemented PC does the same trick. Messaging your family might not be a luxury, being able to browse the web all day certainly is. Flatscreen-TVs too btw, and these are not a right. Keep in mind, i'm not talking about a "Auffangstation", (first registration center?), but the actual housing. edit Our benefit system has many flaws, that is probably the reason. Also, your average german person doesnt have most of his/her family living 1000 of miles away in a dictatorship or war area. Also, I am not sure if you witnessed the situations in the refugees camps right now. Let me tell you, its not pretty. A room with 10 computers is simply not enough. WiFi is much easier. You're talking about a registration center, where hundreds and thousands of people are waiting. That's not up for dispute, i do agree that WiFi is needed there. But not in Asylantenheimen, and even less so in those who house less than 100 people (which is the case for all of the Heime in Essen) | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On September 25 2015 09:54 Paljas wrote: Ok, fair enough. Still, WiFi is just more convenient and easier. Computers break etc. and organizing restricted times is a chore. In long run, it very well might worth it. Convenient and easier is just not an argument in that regard, if you consider that we're at the point where we're checking the laws to be able to disown people. Let it be NOT convenient, but build houses for 1000 refugees more. Like, i don't really get your argumentation, on one hand you're shocked that i say "if the boat is full, send them home", on the other hand you say "well let's spend all the monies for convenience (Essen btw 50 Million Euros for 1800 refugees)", rather than "little bit less luxury/convenience, bit more money to get containers going". By containers i mean the housing things, modular whatevers. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
as i said, it might very well be worth it in the long run and probably requieres less manpower to manage. maybe the people who wanted the wifi actually thought about it before. And how easy something is to do is of course a 100% valid argument. In the greater scheme, this WiFi thing is so irrelevant that it really makes me wonder why you are so incredible upset about it. e: and i am not shocked that you are using the old and tired "the boat is full rhetoric. I just think its both incorrect and disgusting. e: i am sure there is plenty of mismanagement done in the refugee crisis right now. i am not defending it. i am just opposing the conclusions you form from that. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On September 25 2015 10:11 Paljas wrote: you said it was roughly 10k. that doesnt get your houses for 1000 more refugees. That's one out of 14 (iirc, might be 15) Heimen. So that's 140.000 Euros already. And that's just Essen, i don't know what Dortmund etc or other cities in the Ruhrpott do, but i assume it's common practice. as i said, it might very well be worth it in the long run and probably requieres less manpower to manage. maybe the people who wanted the wifi actually thought about it before. And how easy something is to do is of course a 100% valid argument. In the greater scheme, this WiFi thing is so irrelevant that it really makes me wonder why you are so incredible upset about it. e: and i am not shocked that you are using the old and tired "the boat is full rhetoric. I just think its both incorrect and disgusting. Yup, because nowadays it takes at least 4 technicians to keep 10 PC running. Sidenote: even 15 years ago when i was jobbing in an Internetcafe, we had software actually preventing things. If they physically destroy the PCs, well. Tough. I manage to not do it. The jobcenter btw does too, before you come with the argument of "well single person using it". Manpower btw isn't an issue, get one-euro-jobbers to do it. I'm actually not specifically upset about the WiFi thing by itself, but by the fact that alot of money gets wasted for things that are unnecessary. The WiFi is just one point, of which i can relay to because a friend of me did it. And no, the "the boat is full" phrase might be old, but it certainly is not disgusting. It is (or rather, will become soon) a fact, if you like it or not. You can NOT rescue everyone. Although one has to admire the fact that you apparently actually think that germany can (and better: has to) pretty much solve the refugee-crisis on its own. Very naive. edit: instead of "the boat is full" i could've said "if the capacities are maxed out". Don't see a difference there. If capacities are maxed out, they're maxed out, i don't really see what's disgusting with stating that. i am just opposing the conclusions you form from that. Interested. What conclusions am i forming? | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
- people will stop buying german products - Germany's economy will tank - unemployment will rise - social chaos ensues i find that pretty likely in a not so distant future. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
European heads of government met in Brussels on Wednesday night in an attempt to bury months of mutual mudslinging over the EU’s biggest ever refugee crisis, but failed to come up with common policies amid signs they were unable to contain and manage the migration emergency. The emergency Brussels summit decided little but to throw money at aid agencies and transit countries hosting millions of Syrian refugees and to step up the identification and finger-printing of refugees in Italy and Greece by November. Seldom had EU leaders met so divided. And seldom have the stakes been higher in the need to forge common positions to cope with the crisis and to limit the damage from months of blame games. The main aim was to cool tempers and try to strike a consensus on what to do. The results were inconclusive and the same issues will dominate yet another summit in three weeks. The Czechs, Slovakians, Hungarians and Romanians are deeply indignant at being outvoted on one of the biggest, most toxic, issues in national politics in Europe. Immigration has the potential to make or break governments, and will probably contribute to a change of government in Poland next month. Warsaw broke with its central European allies to vote with the majority on Tuesday, forcing through mechanisms for taking in 120,000 refugees from Italy and Greece. But Poland’s nationalist right is tipped to unseat the mainstream conservatives in next month’s election. The likely new prime minister, Beata Szydło, denounced the decision as a scandal, saying her government would reverse it. | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
History is important to know and to comprehend, but what happened in the past should in no way justify the happenings of today. We should be accepting refugees because they're fleeing a war zone, not because of something which happened centuries ago. It's also pretty stupid that Eastern European countries would be forced to do what Western European countries tell them to do. The eastern countries are the one sharing the border and having problems, who are we to tell them what they should and shouldn't do.. Overall this entire debacle is just another European failure. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
I watched an italian talkshow yesterday night and the leftist cringe level has become unbearable. One guy said that 'We should not wait for immgirants to come in, but we should go and take them here, because they are our future' while another ('famous' doctor for Emergency) said 'I am against all type of wars: therefore, I do not support war against ISIS'. What a joke The propaganda machine is incredibile. Incredible. If one country says that it is against immigration, it is immediately labelled as 'fascist' and history from 80 years ago gets shoveled into its face as a boulder. Czech police writes a number for identification and people go on outrage about 'THIS IS AUSCHWITZ'. Someone proposes 'we should help the situation in Africa' and people go on outrage about 'BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT BECAUSE YOU HAD COLONIES THERE 100 YEARS AGO' Edit: I have the source of that talkshow if anyone is interested, just pm me | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Swedish youth. + Show Spoiler + Weapons and ammo for Muslim immigrants confiscated on border. Well, yeah, we're all safe. Let's accept all immigrants. | ||
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