Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
On February 25 2022 17:51 Biff The Understudy wrote: Marine Le Pen keeps defending Putin. What a sickening clown. Obviously her party being directly financed by Moscow probably means her hands are tied but Jesus, what a pond scum.
Do you have a video? Not disputing the claim obviously, but the right wing in Sweden is constantly being portrayed as being closer to Russia and Putin than they actually are, citations completely out of context etc.
MLP saying that Putin is brutal but impressive, that Russia wants to be respected and crap like that.
I can find you articles explaining how her party got a loan from a russian bank close to the Kremlin literally three days after being the only party in France recognizing and legitimizing the Russian invasion of Crimea.
On February 25 2022 18:57 KlaCkoN wrote:Not to sound too melodramatic but if the cost of freedom is to live with sugar rations and no new electronics for a few years then it's worth it.
That is perhaps the most disappointing thing about this situation for me. Just how unwilling the West is to compromise on their own comforts to punish a naked aggressor on Europe's border and prevent further conflict. Because absolutely nothing done so far will deter Putin from continuing on this course.
Their probably laughing in the Kremlin about how cheap of an international price they are paying for Ukraine.
Between sanction exemptions for the Russian energy sector and Western leaders being seemingly more concerned about rising energy costs for their own nations, I'm ashamed of how fat, lazy, and complacent we've got. Few of us want to endure any hardship to defend a democratic ally facing overthrow from a regional bully. Many of our grandparents and great-grandparents were rationing and showed immense resolve against a major European power led by a tyrant dominating other nations. Meanwhile, we're rolling over the moment we're inconvenienced and demonstrated that we'll let Putin take Ukraine as long as he doesn't touch anything else. Despite talk of a unified front, they can't even agree on banning Russia from SWIFT.
Western leaders look more scared about domestic approval ratings and telling voters that gas will cost more. That's also an indictment on us. And it's not to say that those don't matter, especially with people already facing inflationary pressure and COVID, but as far as I can tell, the West told Putin that gobbling up a democracy comes fairly cheap.
Western leadership has become very feckless, dominated by financial interests, completely devoid of any real integrity. We've grown fat and slothful and lost a lot of moral backbone as a societal bloc, I guess this is one of the consequences of that.
On February 25 2022 17:39 Silvanel wrote: Germany is dependant on Russia and Italy is selling Russians industrial machines and equipment. I think it is too late right now to do anything about that. I can only hope that german population will now see what is shown to them in plain sight and demand change.
Making this all about Germany must be the magic trick of the century for the British :p. Like I am pissed of as anyone by the Germans shutting down nuclear power stations to replace them with Russian gas imports due to some weird quasi-religious obsession. But also give them some credit, the sanctions Germany cobbled together after the annexation of Crimea were both effective (look at Russian GDP/capita over time since then) and extremely costly to Germany. Meanwhile the British and the Americans continue to profit massively from Russian capital without actually putting anything that matters to them on the table, and they successful keep people from thinking about it by screaming "Look at the Germans" really loudly.
Seizing Russian money in New York and London, and the US/UK/EU together enforcing sanctions on Switzerland until they agree to also seize Russian money in Zurich would be the obvious next step in my opinion. But that would actually cost the British something and I don't think they'll do it. I would be delighted to be proven wrong though.
Longer term my perhaps extreme opinion is that the correct response at this point is to turn Russia into North Korea. Complete isolation and full on secondary sanctions on anyone that trades with them or touches their money. It would mean complete economic disaster (for Europe much more so than the US) and we would all be poor for a decade+. But I dont think there is a choice. If Putin is on a mission to re-form the empire it won't stop here and the only way to stop him is to smash the Russian economy and industrial/technological base to smithereens. It would hurt so so much but compared to the wars of the past it would be nothing. Not to sound too melodramatic but if the cost of freedom is to live with sugar rations and no new electronics for a few years then it's worth it.
I agree about the UK's need to stop taking Russian money. I even pointed out in the US thread that we should be seizing all the property owned by Russian oligarchs in London, and there's ALOT of it, but we are a country run by used car salesmen with fancy degrees so that won't happen. On the other hand it isn't us making this all about Germany, but the German politicians telling Putin the only thing he has to fear are more sanctions by saving some for later that are doing that.
It's really bizarre to me to see the German politicians pretty much act as lightning rods here. Wouldn't they be better off just saying nothing at all? What value is there to falling on the sword publicly like this? I'm pretty bad at political/economic calculus but I just don't see why you'd go on TV and say "getting Russia out of SWIFT would be too hard ." Just keep your mouth shut! Corporate interests don't want to see you saying that shit either, you'll devaluing their investment in you, and it's not like it's good optics with voters right now.
Funny how google homepage, amazon, etc. which usually is plastered with virtuous doodles and donation links (not saying that's a bad thing) has basically nothing posted about what's going on. Would think a humanitarian donation link for refugees would at least be posted. *shrug* Just found that interesting.
On February 25 2022 22:30 Powerpill wrote: Funny how google homepage, amazon, etc. which usually is plastered with virtuous doodles and donation links (not saying that's a bad thing) has basically nothing posted about what's going on. Would think a humanitarian donation link for refugees would at least be posted. *shrug* Just found that interesting.
Because its only just started? I assume refugees are moving towards Poland, Romania and other neighbours but is there currently a need for humanitarian organisations to move in and ask for more donations? I've seen Poland mention they are ready for a bunch of refugees already and so presumably don't need money for basic necessities at this point.
On February 25 2022 17:51 Biff The Understudy wrote: Marine Le Pen keeps defending Putin. What a sickening clown. Obviously her party being directly financed by Moscow probably means her hands are tied but Jesus, what a pond scum.
Do you have a video? Not disputing the claim obviously, but the right wing in Sweden is constantly being portrayed as being closer to Russia and Putin than they actually are, citations completely out of context etc.
MLP saying that Putin is brutal but impressive, that Russia wants to be respected and crap like that.
I can find you articles explaining how her party got a loan from a russian bank close to the Kremlin literally three days after being the only party in France recognizing and legitimizing the Russian invasion of Crimea.
Well, she didn't exactly defend him, to be fair. She even condemned the attack but contradicted Macron's description of Putin as possibly insane. Then, it looks like she got into damage control mode by talking about how she only collaborated with Putin earlier about terrorists.
Did she legitimize the Crimea annexation? That sounds indefensible and must surely cost her votes in the upcoming election - does Zemmour have a better track record with regards to Russia?
Charity donations are tricky in the internet age at short notice. I don't know if there are really good whitelisted resources yet. It's easier and faster to set up a reflexive scam than it is to set up a truly effective charity-think about the existing scammers on TikTok claiming to be in Ukraine and running looping audio of gunfire over pictures of British rooftops at an organizational level. Hopefully will change soon.
Edit: I mean I guess they could link to the general charities (Red Cross maybe, though I'm not sure if they're involved in a meaningful way yet) but specific and more impactful ones are another question.
On February 25 2022 22:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 25 2022 18:08 Elroi wrote:
On February 25 2022 17:51 Biff The Understudy wrote: Marine Le Pen keeps defending Putin. What a sickening clown. Obviously her party being directly financed by Moscow probably means her hands are tied but Jesus, what a pond scum.
Do you have a video? Not disputing the claim obviously, but the right wing in Sweden is constantly being portrayed as being closer to Russia and Putin than they actually are, citations completely out of context etc.
MLP saying that Putin is brutal but impressive, that Russia wants to be respected and crap like that.
I can find you articles explaining how her party got a loan from a russian bank close to the Kremlin literally three days after being the only party in France recognizing and legitimizing the Russian invasion of Crimea.
Well, she didn't exactly defend him, to be fair. She even condemned the attack but contradicted Macron's description of Putin as possibly insane. Then, it looks like she got into damage control mode by talking about how she only collaborated with Putin earlier about terrorists.
Did she legitimize the Crimea annexation? That sounds indefensible and must surely cost her votes in the upcoming election - does Zemmour have a better track record with regards to Russia?
Yeah she did. And got her loan which saved her party from bankrupty.
Zemmour is also totally in love with Putin; he said a while ago that he “dreams of a French Putin but there is none”. That’s a constant of the far right in France; this anti american, anti nato authoritarian, illiberal stuff is rrrrright up their alley. French far right supporters have an absolute hard on for the Russian regime.
As for Zemoour himself, well. He has been pretty silent since the beginning of the invasion. The fact both him and Le Pen have suggested Putin would never invade and that it was anti russian hysteria to suggest it has also aged like milk.
On February 25 2022 22:30 Powerpill wrote: Funny how google homepage, amazon, etc. which usually is plastered with virtuous doodles and donation links (not saying that's a bad thing) has basically nothing posted about what's going on. Would think a humanitarian donation link for refugees would at least be posted. *shrug* Just found that interesting.
Because its only just started? I assume refugees are moving towards Poland, Romania and other neighbours but is there currently a need for humanitarian organisations to move in and ask for more donations? I've seen Poland mention they are ready for a bunch of refugees already and so presumably don't need money for basic necessities at this point.
My FB feed is mostly filled with people sharing various charities and organizations which You can support in order to help Ukraine or refugees. People are organizing flats, shelters and donations to refugees. Helping to move people to safe locations inside Poland. Our government is also using its resuources and I know for a fact that they prepared for this scenario. Everywhere I turn I see some ground level intiatives from ordinary people. Pretty heartening.
Sadly some people want to exploit that generosity and a lot of scams and false charities advertisment have appered. There is also a lot of troll bashing and fighting disinfromtion Russian narrative. I have never seen our country so united in its response. Hope this lasts.
Putin keeps walking the footsteps of the worst killers of history, sending oppressed ethnic minorities to fight his wars.
EDIT: telegram rumours attributed to Russian military are saying that reinforcements are being called because everything is slower and more difficult than planned. Kyiv was supposed to be encircled this morning and they've been given only 3 days for the invasion.
Take above with all necessary precaution, I'm getting these from the twitter of a Finnish reporter following Russian telegram channels.
On February 25 2022 23:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: NPR reporting Moscow is talking negotiations with Xi in Minsk. Not sure what to make of this announcement now.
just propaganda. If he wants to 'resolve' the conflict all he has to do is order the retreat.
There's been quite a lot of noise about potential negotiations for a ceasefire in Russian news for about the last 10 hours. The concrete proposal seems to be "let's sit down in Minsk" which I suspect is meant to be symbolic.
On February 25 2022 23:49 LegalLord wrote: There's been quite a lot of noise about potential negotiations for a ceasefire in Russian news for about the last 10 hours. The concrete proposal seems to be "let's sit down in Minsk" which I suspect is meant to be symbolic.
On February 25 2022 21:49 Oukka wrote: Finnish YLE (public broadcasting company) reports that a Romanian ship has been hit by fire from Russian warships. Second vessel from NATO countries to be fired upon after a Turkish ship was hit by a missile yesterday.
On February 25 2022 18:57 KlaCkoN wrote:Not to sound too melodramatic but if the cost of freedom is to live with sugar rations and no new electronics for a few years then it's worth it.
That is perhaps the most disappointing thing about this situation for me. Just how unwilling the West is to compromise on their own comforts to punish a naked aggressor on Europe's border and prevent further conflict. Because absolutely nothing done so far will deter Putin from continuing on this course.
Their probably laughing in the Kremlin about how cheap of an international price they are paying for Ukraine.
That's the frustrating part, if we cut off all financial ties Putin is likely to be ousted by his own people. And if he doesn't then fuck it, I'll pay 3x for gas or sleep with 3 coats on if I have to, knowing we at least did everything.
On February 25 2022 23:49 LegalLord wrote: There's been quite a lot of noise about potential negotiations for a ceasefire in Russian news for about the last 10 hours. The concrete proposal seems to be "let's sit down in Minsk" which I suspect is meant to be symbolic.
Is the invasion going that badly? Oo
There were a few requests from the Ukrainian side for talks as well. I hope it means that they'll actually talk soon, though my hope was that they would have already talked overnight when I went to sleep 8 hours ago.
EPT
." Just keep your mouth shut! Corporate interests don't want to see you saying that shit either, you'll devaluing their investment in you, and it's not like it's good optics with voters right now.
