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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
Another rough way to split the catholics and protestants would be on the line of Germanic vs Latin language groups. Roughly fits in. Then when you go further east you hit the Orthodox/Slavic group instead. Of course they will be slightly different since they have had different impacts over time. It doesn't matter that much now a days, most nations in Europe are not very Christian at all.
There are of course many more languages than just those groups but it gives a rough basis. Greek is an especially interesting case since it has been the language of a regional super power since before Alexander's time up until the 1300s. So it isn't very relevant in a modern sense but has a lot of history behind the culture it has.
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On July 22 2020 01:57 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2020 01:36 stilt wrote:On July 22 2020 00:26 Broetchenholer wrote:On July 21 2020 23:55 stilt wrote:On July 21 2020 20:39 Broetchenholer wrote:On July 21 2020 17:48 stilt wrote:On July 21 2020 16:31 Broetchenholer wrote:
What are you even talking about? Auschwitz is not rooted in western society. You did it again, throwing something in a conversation it has nothing to do with. There have been zero repeats of Auschwitz since it has happened. Not in western culture nor in any other. It is, to this day, the one worst thing our species has done and it has zero to do with cultural imperialism. So stop it.
On the rest, yeah, of course you would cling to the anecdote. That France has been trying harder then other countries to enshrine their past culture and resist outside influence is well known, at least compared to Germany. We did not have quotas for German songs in the radio for example. This however, is like trying to turn back time. So you also want to go back to the time, where everybody listens to classical music? Which arbitrary time in the past do you want to mimic?
And just to get this straight, I have absolutely no beef with the French, my encounters with a few of them were unpleasant and showed a pattern but were way too few to generalize from it. I just believe that sentences like the French culture is absorbed is fucking stupid. It's like saying my air is being polluted, as if your air was somehow seperate from the rest of the air and had special qualities to it. And it's also implying that your air is more precious then the rest and you get to decide who gets to change that air and who does not. Zero repeat ? Then why the numerous comparaisons with the gulags or the ouighour camps ? You just invented totalitarism bs to separate from it, the "worst" of our specie doesn't come from nowhere, it has a cultural and political legacy. You conveniently dismiss my points on middle east us policies x) Because these comparisons are wrong. On July 21 2020 17:48 stilt wrote:
For god sake, the cold rationality of this factory of death is a creation of a racial capitalism ideology which can only come from protestant countries who are dominating the West with a burning hatred for everything that is not you just like when you gloat when you assert western cultural dominance.
Nazi Germany was not protestant. Gulags and Uighur detention center also do not center around Protestantism. France is not protestant, how does that factor in your western cultural dominance? Do you actually believe that France is a victim of western cultural dominance because it is not protestant? Or do you believe that France is part of the Western European dominance exported into the world? Hatred is not bound to religion. Each religion in the world has create massacres when they had the chance, so have atheist communities. This is not a western European, or German or protestant or Christian issue. It's a human issue. If you are ranting against western European/American culture being evil and culminating in Auschwitz and racial capitalism and then claim that France is a victim of that culture, then you are claiming that France has not contributed to racial capitalism, cannot be responsible for it and is different or better than the rest. I don’t know how else to read this. On July 21 2020 17:48 stilt wrote:
I want to mimic a time when we don't build aceptised temple to the glory of consumerism like Disneyland Paris neither watch propaganda from Hollywood or the mind-numbing reality shows. And even better, I would freaking love to go back to the time when social struggle was priveleged rather than the identitary/racial wars proposed by the western media and intelligentia which is matrice of racism and hatred between people who have interests to be united. In the end, indeed I cherish the times when people were struggling to conquest social rights rather than struggling to maintain them, the left is necessary conservative now as the new trend is the destruction of what has been accomplished.
Your air is poisonous then, and don't transform my words : I never said my culture was the best, I say it is way better than current western's one just like any others, I don't do comparaison with Russian, persan's ones or any others. Your post, for me, is so over the place, it’s really hard to even try to understand what you stand for. For example, now you say you want people to be united and racism and hatred to be a problem. But you want to be so little united, that “your culture” is not being changed. Do you not recognize, that allowing social currents from outside of your community to merge with your own culture creates more united people, less racism, less hatred? You have the option to go to Disneyworld or read a fine book of French classicism. Nobody forces you to eat McDonalds and listen to Kanye West. And if in 50 years some aspect of culture you consider French is not practiced anymore, people did not need it as much as you thought. On July 21 2020 17:48 stilt wrote:
Your air is poisonous then, and don't transform my words : I never said my culture was the best, I say it is way better than current western's one just like any others, I don't do comparaison with Russian, persan's ones or any others.
Oh, okay, just better than “western” culture. So you dislike the spreading of inferior culture to your place. You don’t think France is part of Western Culture, which is Auschwitz, but other cultures you cannot name are on the same level as yours. That makes perfect sense. On July 21 2020 17:48 stilt wrote:
Edit : contrary to what you seem to think, my love for my country is rather motivated by a sense of duty rather than egocentric pride and some fetish of the past as I see it at the only source of social rights and real power of the people. (I don't like the term democracy, it is just expired nowadays) Help me here. Duty to the country is the only source of social rights and real power of the people? I might be wrong, it’s really hard for me to read that. I help you there, the nation is the basis of social rights, sorry if you don't understand the liberal philantropists and ngo are not. France is indeed not a protestant country who created entairtainent industry so it is not at the origin a western country like it is now, sorry if you understand it, its social core was not identity wars. You seem to think the West is a monolith who never changed. Entertainement industry is diffused from all medias by the great superpower of the world, sorry again if you don't undertand it, it is not a choice but an alienation, I bet even some german philosophers spoke about it in 60s... Liberal western socities are based on identity wars by the prism of various communities, this is sort of a racial, religious war totally instrumentalyzed in order to prevent both social struggle and the state to be too powerful, I don't think my point is this hard to understand either. I have tried understanding what your point is, and i have several times said, what parts of your post i interpret in what way. As far as i am interpreting you, you are unhappy with the US passively influencing your countries culture in a way you don't like. And you believe that everyones culture except four yours, Irans and Russias, will result in Auschwitz. And the reason for that is protestantism. Even though the french have shown many times that when in a position of power, they are more then capable of murdering people for monetary gain themselves, up to the second half of the last century. So, dislike american society and influence if you want, but if you are then conflating it into a crazy protestant imperialist Auschwitz against France, i call bullshit on you. And maybe also accept that people read your position as highly nationalist, because your assumption on what differentiates between good culture and bad culture seems to come down to: is it French or not. You have very serious reading comprehension difficulties indeed. I only say western culture is bad, unless you don't know there are other cultures that the ones I illustrate (indians, arabs, africans ones, in short every others, I really must give you an exhaustive list for you to get it ?) giving your pro western stance, I guess it is the case as nothing exists (or is legitimate) outside your political bubble, that's my main point actually, no need to add more to this as it leads to nowhere. Could somebody please step in and explain his thought to me in a way i can understand? If i am triggered and angry and don't get the point he is making, i am willing to let a neutral person explain. The way i understand it, western culture is bad and inevitably leads to something he calls identity wars, which is a thing, but not the thing he seems to mention. For some reason he believes that french culture is very distinct from western culture. Western culture to him is Auschwitz and hollywood, the connection they have is very unclear to me. And for some reason, protestantism plays a part in it. And all of that is causing france to suck, because people are not fighting for their social liberties anymore. Please someone explain it.
This is how much I understood of stilt yesterday, so you are not alone in being confused:
On July 19 2020 22:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2020 08:36 stilt wrote:On July 18 2020 20:13 Acrofales wrote:On July 18 2020 19:54 Nyxisto wrote:On July 18 2020 19:45 sharkie wrote:On July 18 2020 18:45 Nyxisto wrote:On July 18 2020 08:19 Sermokala wrote:
China is definitely everything nazi Germany was if Hitler wasn't making explicit speeches about hating jews and just wanted to kill them in private. Its a wildly corrupt combination of state-owned industries, partially state-owned industries working as proxies, and no real accountability at any level of government that is controlled through one party that decides every other position in government.
Theres really nothing communist or socialist about the country anymore. They just keep the fiction running to stay in power. Having state-owned business doesn't turn you into Nazi Germany, what the hell lol. I was in Shenzhen for work about a year ago and I can safely tell you that it was nothing like Nazi Germany. China is an autocratic state, not a totalitarian one. The country is depoliticized, not caught in a giant struggle for life and death and total war. China's private sector is also large, probably 60-70% of the economy, a lot of it informal. In many ways the country is so capitalist it makes the US look socialist, competition between private firms is cutthroat in ways you don't find in many other places. So you know what it was like in Nazi Germany? Being German, having family who lived through World War 2, having talked to actual holocaust survivors I'm pretty sure I have a better grasp on what it was like in Nazi Germany than someone comparing every non-democratic government on the planet to it, yes. For most people, Nazi Germany was just another government. In fact, initially maybe even better than the previous one, because they stopped paying the ridiculous reparations and invested in huge government projects that gave many people jobs. We have this weird idea that because a regime is terrible, it must be awful for everyone living there. It is simply wrong. What happens is that life continues as normal except that the shoemaker on the corner suddenly disappears and if you try to ask what happens you get shushed. And if you don't shush then maybe you disappear as well, but most people shush. And then when the butcher opposite disappears they join in doing the shushing. And life continues for these people mostly the same as it was before except they can't talk about certain topics. Of course, if you happen to be a Jew, or gay, or gypsy then no matter how much you shush, you got disappeared. And China isn't dissimilar right now with how they're rounding up Uyghurs and "reeducating" them. Oh, and the "social credit" ranking program is something the Nazis could only dream of. Reeducating them doesn't mean exterminating them, they have to process the love of the state for the sake of this sort of confucian social order, it isn't racially motivated. Well, not that I agree but I believe it should calm down unless the cia finances some terrorists which is bound to happen. Anyway, this comparaison is quite stupid. Nazi Germany was a protestant and capitalist country with a tradition of decentralism just like the USA and GB (ah, the benevolant british empire...) which actively try to genocide/destroy culture by assimilating and overwhelming them with this mindless entertaining industry. This is exactly the same elite, the same people, the same political horizon, the same racial capitalism that american "progressists" and let's call the international bourgeoisie you're probably part of now use masterfully with identity policies. Now, if you combine it with this remnant of manifest destiny, we got imperialist power which base their political culture on identitary conflicts. Which leads naturally to the idea that genocide is in the ethos of those countries... And this theory is quite true, when Germany tried to destroy Russia, some historians presented it as the courageous german soldiers who fought to prevent the commies threatened western civilization and they were rights in the sense that Nazi Germany is indeed the true face of the world dominated by USA with an elite absolutely certain of its superiority and ready to wash the world of everything which isn't them. A world my country is now part of as our elite is pretty happy with these consumerism combined with this mindless entertainement for the masses and has thus decided to adopt the american way of life. As a result, there is no difference between a french bourgeois and an american one, they speak the same language, read the same stuff (1984, on the road => the little catechism of the liberal, after this, they are now ready to die for freedom, how cute) and think totally alike. But when people resist, well, it turns into a civilization conflict in which for example every arab nation who doesn't compel is mercilessly destroyed, humiliated, bombed or even stolen while you are being extremely good at building narrative to justify it : your superiority of values, "Democracy" (well, considering how uneducated and instrumentalized people are in the West, I would rather called this a perfectly locked oligarchy and idiocracy) and ofc, the "good side of history" which is quite easy to do when it's people of your class which wrote it but I am pretty sure that one day, the West today will probably be considered as way worse than any of his ennemies. But I am being pretty optimistic because the derugalation of economy, the careful destruction of social and polticial bodies with identity policies really make me wonder how things can be done for climate change when everything is done to incapacitate strong moves in this matter. As would say Maggie, there are no society or politics, just communities. Edit : I am obviously support the idea of China taking over the world over Western barbarism, maybe they could even accidentally save Europe from it. I have a hard time parsing this post. It quotes me, but I get the feeling that is more a coathanger than that this actually replies to my post. I also have a hard time figuring out whether most if it is sarcasm and stilt thinks the entire world is going to shit due to consumerism and it didn't really matter at all who won ww2? Or whether this is all deadly serious and China is actually not fascist, but current western civilization is, or maybe arab nations are? Or whether I am just not understanding anything that is going on in this post.
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i'll hang me some things too: consumerism is a symptom not a cause.
if you want a cause, i'll give you a cause, the cause: apotheosis of cultural aestheticism. if someone can figure out how to kill it, shits done.
transpose wests' anthropology of the senses and you flip the world on its head. ... A common point of departure in sensory writings deals with the imperialism of sight and/or the Western pentad sensory model that is critiqued as both Eurocentric and limiting in exploring various other sensory orders across different societies and sensory hierarchies. and that's mildly putting it.
(as a visual: think of advertising no longer working/having no effect on people ... )
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what are the other extant sensory orders?
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Northern Ireland23926 Posts
What fucking drugs was Moltke ingesting to elicit his recent posts? Figure I should give them a shot
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I guess he was going through some kind of crisis. Just take a look at his last blog about being expelled from his uni after being in a coma because of a car accident... Then it turns out that his mother for some reason made up the whole thing about his expulsion from the university. Whatever happened I hope he gets better and can come back to TL. I often enjoy reading his posts.
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No
User was banned for this post.
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On July 22 2020 20:55 MoltkeWarding12 wrote:
No
Moltke, for Christ sake, relax and take a small break. It's fine, you can explain yourself later if you want but stop making alt accounts by the dozen. It's just a forum on the internet 
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No
User was banned for this post.
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"I do not care" is clearly a lie, and the person you are lying to is yourself.
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Spoken like a true misunderstood victim.
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Just take a breather, no need to throw away good potential future discussions just to get a reply quickly into a thread which tends to move very slow.
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On July 22 2020 21:48 MoltkeWardi4 wrote:
No
You had a tempban, just wait it out and that's all. You risk making it worse by creating alts, and R1Ch can do some magic to block a lot of things you could throw at the website.
Please just be patient for a few days.
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Zurich15313 Posts
Alright, please stop MW. This site, much less this thread, is not your personal space to act like a 6 year old. Wait out your ban and sleep on it. We'll be removing your inane spam from this thread so it can return to normalcy.
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On July 22 2020 03:10 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2020 02:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On July 22 2020 02:16 xM(Z wrote:On July 22 2020 01:21 Velr wrote:
If we would be descendant from diffrent great/ancestor apes, this wouldn't even be an argument, there would be big diffrences in the DNA, not the small ones we got.
If we mixed for millenia long it also doesn't matter anymore. define big. currently(and most talked about) you have the chimpanzee/african ape theory and the second orangutan theory. the former is the most accepted one but the later has (overall)more evidence to back it up. en excerpt: Our analyses support the following hypotheses: (1) the living large-bodied hominoids represent a monophyletic group comprising two sister clades: humans + orangutans, and chimpanzees (including bonobos) + gorillas (collectively, the African apes); and (2) the human–orangutan clade (dental hominoids) includes fossil hominids (Homo, australopiths, Orrorin) and the Miocene-age apes Hispanopithecus, Ouranopithecus, Ankarapithecus, Sivapithecus, Lufengpithecus, Khoratpithecus and Gigantopithecus (also Plio-Pleistocene of eastern Asia). We also demonstrate that the distributions of living and fossil genera are largely vicariant, with nodes of geographical overlap or proximity between Gigantopithecus and Sivapithecus in Central Asia, and between Pongo, Gigantopithecus, Lufengpithecus and Khoratpithecus in East Asia. The main massing is represented by five genera and eight species in East Asia. The dental hominoid track is spatially correlated with the East African Rift System (EARS) and the Tethys Orogenic Collage (TOC). Main conclusions Humans and orangutans share a common ancestor that excludes the extant African apes. Molecular analyses are compromised by phenetic procedures such as alignment and are probably based on primitive retentions. We infer that the human–orangutan common ancestor had established a widespread distribution by at least 13 Ma. Vicariant differentiation resulted in the ancestors of hominids in East Africa and various primarily Miocene apes distributed between Spain and Southeast Asia (and possibly also parts of East Africa). The geographical disjunction between early hominids and Asian Pongo is attributed to local extinctions between Europe and Central Asia. stuff is interesting and it's openly debated. + Show Spoiler +Abstract Aim To resolve the phylogeny of humans and their fossil relatives (collectively, hominids), orangutans (Pongo) and various Miocene great apes and to present a biogeographical model for their differentiation in space and time. Location Africa, northern Mediterranean, Asia. Methods Maximum parsimony analysis was used to assess phylogenetic relationships among living large-bodied hominoids (= humans, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans), and various related African, Asian and European ape fossils. Biogeographical characteristics were analysed for vicariant replacement, main massings and nodes. A geomorphological correlation was identified for a clade we refer to as the ‘dental hominoids’, and this correlation was used to reconstruct their historical geography. Results Our analyses support the following hypotheses: (1) the living large-bodied hominoids represent a monophyletic group comprising two sister clades: humans + orangutans, and chimpanzees (including bonobos) + gorillas (collectively, the African apes); and (2) the human–orangutan clade (dental hominoids) includes fossil hominids (Homo, australopiths, Orrorin) and the Miocene-age apes Hispanopithecus, Ouranopithecus, Ankarapithecus, Sivapithecus, Lufengpithecus, Khoratpithecus and Gigantopithecus (also Plio-Pleistocene of eastern Asia). We also demonstrate that the distributions of living and fossil genera are largely vicariant, with nodes of geographical overlap or proximity between Gigantopithecus and Sivapithecus in Central Asia, and between Pongo, Gigantopithecus, Lufengpithecus and Khoratpithecus in East Asia. The main massing is represented by five genera and eight species in East Asia. The dental hominoid track is spatially correlated with the East African Rift System (EARS) and the Tethys Orogenic Collage (TOC). Main conclusions Humans and orangutans share a common ancestor that excludes the extant African apes. Molecular analyses are compromised by phenetic procedures such as alignment and are probably based on primitive retentions. We infer that the human–orangutan common ancestor had established a widespread distribution by at least 13 Ma. Vicariant differentiation resulted in the ancestors of hominids in East Africa and various primarily Miocene apes distributed between Spain and Southeast Asia (and possibly also parts of East Africa). The geographical disjunction between early hominids and Asian Pongo is attributed to local extinctions between Europe and Central Asia. The EARS and TOC correlations suggest that these geomorphological features mediated establishment of the ancestral range www.researchgate.net. (anyway, it's for a different topic maybe) There are several current and changing theories of humanity and none of them concern themselves with Chimpanzees and Orangutangs except that they have common ancestor. how i read that: - hmm, cherry picked contexts - hmm, loaded words (humanity ... i mean ...) after that, i understood that even as a bait, nothing constructive can come of what you said. For humanity, you can read that as human origin but I guess you will call that cherry picked contexts as well. But hey, posting abstracts of papers don't work on people who can read them just because you yourself cannot understand them. The paper itself has nothing to do with whatever you are on about.
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MK you should probably stop. If it hasn't yet, you should be thankful your temp ban hasn't been changed to permanent, as that would probably have been the case for anyone else with your level of insistence.
On a side note, I didn't know erasing posts (as opposed to nuking) was in the TL mod's toolbox.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:21 Sbrubbles wrote:
MK you should probably stop. If it hasn't yet, you should be thankful your temp ban hasn't been changed to permanent, as that would probably have been the case for anyone else with your level of insistence.
On a side note, I didn't know erasing posts (as opposed to nuking) was in the TL mod's toolbox.
The more you know 
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United States42014 Posts
Erasing posts isn’t a mod tool but I think admins can do it, albeit with damage to the underlying code (it used to fuck with the 20 posts per page thing and result in subscribed topics showing negative numbers of new posts). Mods can just edit all his posts though.
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EPT
