EPT+ Show Spoiler +
Those are the images of a dictatorship. I'm speechless...
Edit 07/12—since the video was removed (first 26 or 45 seconds in particular):
+ Show Spoiler +
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1211
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Those are the images of a dictatorship. I'm speechless... Edit 07/12—since the video was removed (first 26 or 45 seconds in particular): + Show Spoiler + | ||
|
m4ini
4215 Posts
The police violence is inexcusable, no question here. But acting like there's some innocent detained is simply blatantly lying. Lets be real: this is exactly what the police should be doing. Detain protesters that go too far - instead of beating the snot out of them. That's one thing. For the other: you're blatantly, and i'm 100% certain, deliberately misrepresenting key facts here (because i was able to figure them out, and i don't speak a single word french). Here's why they were detained. A key fact you accidentally "missed". I know, it's "normal" for french to argue that this is just a normal demonstration, nothing to see here - but they did in fact set fire to multiple cars and attacked the police with stones and fireworks. There will be plenty of innocents in that video of yours, but they still have to figure out who's responsible. And for that, you take in everyone around that burning car. To suggest that this is some form of dictatorship bullshit is fucking idiotic. And btw, if a 16 year old can act like a criminal anarchist setting fire to cars, he can also be treated like a criminal anarchist kneeling hands behind their heads. I don't see anything ridiculous there. edit: just to point it out, you can also see the police shooting tear gas at 1:12 the way it's supposed to, and not "face height" (you can see the canister dropping). | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
https://blog.0day.rocks/france-might-be-losing-its-first-big-information-war-2f3ab8b82fbb | ||
|
Silvanel
Poland4751 Posts
| ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10881 Posts
On December 07 2018 08:24 TheDwf wrote: Stunning radicalization of the Macron regime. 700! 700 high school pupils were arrested yesterday for protesting, including 150 in a suburb high school. Look how they were treated! They are 15, 16 years old children! + Show Spoiler + Those are the images of a dictatorship. I'm speechless... Uhm, how would you recommend restraining teenagers? I don't see any violence in your Video and the Police seems pretty chill... And i highly doubt they just rounded them up for shits and giggles. Judging by the responses of the tweet and my very rusty french they burned cars and some bring even up molotov cocktails? | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 07 2018 10:16 m4ini wrote: + Show Spoiler + While there's undoubtedly despicable police work going in france currently (we've all seen the videos), your over-dramatisation and one sided "reporting" doesn't put you in a good light either. The police violence is inexcusable, no question here. But acting like there's some innocent detained is simply blatantly lying. Lets be real: this is exactly what the police should be doing. Detain protesters that go too far - instead of beating the snot out of them. That's one thing. For the other: you're blatantly, and i'm 100% certain, deliberately misrepresenting key facts here (because i was able to figure them out, and i don't speak a single word french). Here's why they were detained. A key fact you accidentally "missed". https://youtu.be/ZK7WzmXP1VU?t=85 I know, it's "normal" for french to argue that this is just a normal demonstration, nothing to see here - but they did in fact set fire to multiple cars and attacked the police with stones and fireworks. There will be plenty of innocents in that video of yours, but they still have to figure out who's responsible. And for that, you take in everyone around that burning car. To suggest that this is some form of dictatorship bullshit is fucking idiotic. And btw, if a 16 year old can act like a criminal anarchist setting fire to cars, he can also be treated like a criminal anarchist kneeling hands behind their heads. I don't see anything ridiculous there. edit: just to point it out, you can also see the police shooting tear gas at 1:12 the way it's supposed to, and not "face height" (you can see the canister dropping). Hey Mr. Context, no context justifies this scene. You don't make 150 underage people kneel for hours in humiliating fashion because a few of them committed vandalism and violence before. And since you don't speak French you might have missed the cop taunting them: "here's a well-behaved class... we're going to show that to their teachers". The little sadistic brute in uniform who filmed this (another illegal action btw, you have no right to film underage people like this) was proud of what he was doing. The fact that he felt confident enough to upload it is telling enough. For his impunity he probably banked on the legions of Mr. Context like you, but luckily some people remember the principles of proportionality and rule of law, and those images are triggering a scandal. Even members of this hardcore government said that it was shocking, before laboriously trying to explain what led to this humiliating collective punishment. Hey Mr. Context, what justifies bringing them on their knees like war prisoners? What added value compared with just making them sit? Tell me? Hey Mr. Context, some of those minors were forced to remain stuck more than 4 hours in that position. Can you try that for yourself, and tell us at which point it becomes physically uncomfortable? | ||
|
stilt
France2755 Posts
On December 07 2018 16:57 zatic wrote: Also worth remembering that France is yet another battleground for the legions of foreign social media bots. And France might be losing. https://blog.0day.rocks/france-might-be-losing-its-first-big-information-war-2f3ab8b82fbb Well, considering almost all the medias are possessed by corporations and millionaires, I don't think those bullshits and oriented news have any effects on the protesters you know. Most of journalists are in a social buble anyway just like most of the posters on this site so no wonder why you have no clue on such simple stuffs. The yellow jackets are very diverses btw, from souverainist leftists (a very few identitary-liberal leftists hopefully) like myself to far right, it's basically a protestation of french lower and middle classes, a lot of arrested people had never had problems with the police. Wow I just read from the same site news this article : https://medium.com/@GreinerOU/the-wealth-inequality-in-france-that-is-causing-riots-is-nothing-compared-to-the-united-states-4017be3c30f6 So Macron is decreasing the inequality? Haha and now journalists wonder why they are considered as the servants of the big business. Macron has suppressed without compensation a few important measures protecting vulnerable people such has studients with the reduced apl or the ones who struggle the most at finding a job with les contrats aidés and now he tried to taxes fuel so basically, the lower and middle classe while suppressing the isf (an already super lenient taxes for the richest) but ofc, he's decreasing inequality.  | ||
|
Silvanel
Poland4751 Posts
| ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 07 2018 20:17 TheDwf wrote: Hey Mr. Context, no context justifies this scene. You don't make 150 underage people kneel for hours in humiliating fashion because a few of them committed vandalism and violence before. And since you don't speak French you might have missed the cop taunting them: "here's a well-behaved class... we're going to show that to their teachers". The little sadistic brute in uniform who filmed this (another illegal action btw, you have no right to film underage people like this) was proud of what he was doing. The fact that he felt confident enough to upload it is telling enough. For his impunity he probably banked on the legions of Mr. Context like you, but luckily some people remember the principles of proportionality and rule of law, and those images are triggering a scandal. Even members of this hardcore government said that it was shocking, before laboriously trying to explain what led to this humiliating collective punishment. Hey Mr. Context, what justifies bringing them on their knees like war prisoners? What added value compared with just making them sit? Tell me? Hey Mr. Context, some of those minors were forced to remain stuck more than 4 hours in that position. Can you try that for yourself, and tell us at which point it becomes physically uncomfortable? If your hands are restrained, they have to kneel for your safety, because you can’t break your fall if you trip. It is also why officers and medical aid staff don’t carry people and force them to move under their own power if possible. Or use a hard board. Because if they resist/move while being carried, it is very easy for them to get seriously injured. The rest of that isn’t acceptable in any way, but having people sit down or kneel while they are being detained is done for safety reasons. | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Currenty party secretary Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer got 450 votes, millionaire Friedrich Merz 392 votes and health minister Jens Spahn 157 votes. This means a second ballot between AKK and Merz is necessary. | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 07 2018 23:53 Plansix wrote: If your hands are restrained, they have to kneel for your safety, because you can’t break your fall if you trip. It is also why officers and medical aid staff don’t carry people and force them to move under their own power if possible. Or use a hard board. Because if they resist/move while being carried, it is very easy for them to get seriously injured. The rest of that isn’t acceptable in any way, but having people sit down or kneel while they are being detained is done for safety reasons. From what I saw on the video, only those against the wall had their hands restrained. An inquiry has been opened by the Defender of Rights on that case. According to the press, some minors were questioned without a lawyer (illegal) and without being recorded on camera (illegal again). Some parents were not even warned about where their children were. In its vengeful repression the State is completely losing its mind. One of the minors arrested said that he had been insulted with racial slurs ("filthy Arab"), was mocked for his weight, various taunts. Some of the minors were handcuffed too tightly. Overcrowded cell so he had to sleep on the floor. The morning, the cop said that the cell looked like a "zoo". On December 08 2018 00:13 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The video sems to have gone, but their hands weren't tied. And if their hands were tied, there would be no problem with them sitting down. On chairs. Somewhere inside, somewhere warm. They were in a school were they not? There's no excuse to make them kneel in stead of sitting, except as a humiliating gesture. The video was creepy as hell. Like PoW's being lined up before being executed. I put another source. There's also this one: + Show Spoiler + They were outside, in the courtyard of some private building, not in school. | ||
|
Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On December 08 2018 00:15 Big J wrote: German CDU just finished the first ballot for their next chairmanship. Currenty party secretary Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer got 450 votes, millionaire Friedrich Merz 392 votes and health minister Jens Spahn 157 votes. This means a second ballot between AKK and Merz is necessary. AKK just got elected. I breathe a sigh of relief. | ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 08 2018 00:15 Big J wrote: German CDU just finished the first ballot for their next chairmanship. Currenty party secretary Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer got 450 votes, millionaire Friedrich Merz 392 votes and health minister Jens Spahn 157 votes. This means a second ballot between AKK and Merz is necessary. 517 for Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, 482 for Merz. Merkel's girl has won, while she herself is now officially retired as chairwoman of the CDU. | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
| ||
|
Sent.
Poland9297 Posts
 | ||
|
Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On December 08 2018 01:02 TheDwf wrote: Will this bring any change in the political line of the CDU? No big ones i think. Imho he other 2 candidates would have been more likely to go back to occasionally trying to please-the-right-wing-populists which the CDU tended to do before Merkel. I also believe/hope that AKK is more likely to keep the entire population of germany in mind, where as I dont think Spahn and in particular Merz seem to be completely out of touch/disregard the situation of lower class people. | ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 08 2018 01:02 TheDwf wrote: Will this bring any change in the political line of the CDU? Hard to say, definitely less than if Merz had won. On December 08 2018 01:04 Sent. wrote: Germans and stability, name a more iconic duo France and revolution | ||
|
ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
| ||
| ||
