EPT+ Show Spoiler +
![[image loading]](https://fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/medium/1/capitalist-pyramid-1911-granger.jpg)
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1035
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
|
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 22 2018 20:04 TheDwf wrote: According to Oxfam, the 1% richest got 82% of the wealth created in 2017. Long live capitalism! + Show Spoiler + And they funded more than a third of the French government! The ungrateful swine should be happy they bleed so few to fund so much, but cupidity knows no bounds. | ||
|
plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
On January 22 2018 22:11 Danglars wrote: And they funded more than a third of the French government! The ungrateful swine should be happy they bleed so few to fund so much, but cupidity knows no bounds. With 82% of the gains, the 1% should also be expected to carry a comparable portion of collective spending - not a measly third. | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18394 Posts
On January 22 2018 22:11 Danglars wrote: And they funded more than a third of the French government! The ungrateful swine should be happy they bleed so few to fund so much, but cupidity knows no bounds. with 82% I'd expect them to fund 82%... | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
I see that the Grey Wall exists in Germany too. That lovely generation of baby boomers... | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18394 Posts
| ||
|
farvacola
United States18825 Posts
| ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 22 2018 20:04 TheDwf wrote: According to Oxfam, the 1% richest got 82% of the wealth created in 2017. Long live capitalism! + Show Spoiler + Given we have property rights that allow them to take almost 100% if they feel like it, we should be grateful that they leave 18% to the rest. I guess one of the bright sides of feudalism is that the idiots who rule based on inherited wealth need a good amount of people to rule for them which has a nice distribution effect for those who have acquired the necessary skills. | ||
|
Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On January 22 2018 20:04 TheDwf wrote: According to Oxfam, the 1% richest got 82% of the wealth created in 2017. Long live capitalism! + Show Spoiler + The 1% and 82% are worldwide statistics. Chances are quite a few people on the forum are part of the 1% world as far as income is concerned (last time I checked 1% meant ~30k yearly income). 1% assets is trickier, mainly because forum members are too young. ~800k sounds like a pension fund we could achieve ... except in France, since the french pay for their parents' pension and not their own. | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18394 Posts
On January 22 2018 23:39 farvacola wrote: Part of what sets the Baby Boomers apart from other generations is that they constituted such a large portion of the population that older generations couldn't really "grey wall" given their relative lack of electoral strength. In that sense, the phenomena indicated by graphs like TheDwf's has a unique impact. There wouldn't be as big of a wall if current young people actually CARED enough to go voting. We don't lose by absolute numbers alone. Percentage wise current generation is a disgrace. | ||
|
KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On January 23 2018 00:51 Big J wrote: Given we have property rights that allow them to take almost 100% if they feel like it, we should be grateful that they leave 18% to the rest. I guess one of the bright sides of feudalism is that the idiots who rule based on inherited wealth need a good amount of people to rule for them which has a nice distribution effect for those who have acquired the necessary skills. Someone already pointed this out, but "them"? The median (the average is presumably even higher) income for Austrian men puts you in the top 1% comfortably. | ||
|
farvacola
United States18825 Posts
On January 23 2018 01:01 sharkie wrote: There wouldn't be as big of a wall if current young people actually CARED enough to go voting. We don't lose by absolute numbers alone. Percentage wise current generation is a disgrace. That's true, but that lack of involvement likely has at least a bit to do with how hopeless it can seem when attempting to fight against the politics of older generations. Still, gotta break the cycle somehow. | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 23 2018 00:57 Oshuy wrote: The 1% and 82% are worldwide statistics. Chances are quite a few people on the forum are part of the 1% world as far as income is concerned (last time I checked 1% meant ~30k yearly income). 1% assets is trickier, mainly because forum members are too young. ~800k sounds like a pension fund we could achieve ... except in France, since the french pay for their parents' pension and not their own. I know. The 1% threshold is 770k$, i.e. 630k€. The median patrimony in France is 158k€, and having 630k€ of patrimony already puts you in the 10% richest. | ||
|
Acrofales
Spain17975 Posts
On January 23 2018 01:04 KlaCkoN wrote: Someone already pointed this out, but "them"? The median (the average is presumably even higher) income for Austrian men puts you in the top 1% comfortably. For sure. By income I am definitely 1%. By wealth I am far away (and I suspect most on the forum are nowhere near the 1% in wealth). | ||
|
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
| ||
|
LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 23 2018 01:37 opisska wrote: We should start with the re-distrbution of wealth on TL. I get roughly $20k a year and I have roughly another $10k in savings (considering our joint savings with my wife to be half mine) and nothing else of significant value besides items of daily use, so which of you 1-%-ers is gonna send me some? The transfer goes the opposite direction. You’re going to have to send money to the wealthiest TLers. Otherwise it’s just communism. | ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 23 2018 01:04 KlaCkoN wrote: Someone already pointed this out, but "them"? The median (the average is presumably even higher) income for Austrian men puts you in the top 1% comfortably. The study talks about 82% of wealth increase and not 82% of income and 1% of wealth and again, not 1% of income. Let's crunch some numbers: If you earn 30k in austria you are left with 22k net income. If you save superheavily with that income in austria you end up with a wealth gain of +10k euro (probably not in a city, hence the economy around you is probably subsidized) at the end of the year. The wealth growth was about 16,7 trillion dollar worldwide (2016-2017). So we have: (16,7 trillion*0.82)/(7.5 billion people * 0.01)=174933 dollar gain on average for the richest 1%. I believe your 10k € hermit living style won't put you anywhere comfortably. | ||
|
plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
On January 23 2018 01:37 opisska wrote: We should start with the re-distrbution of wealth on TL. I get roughly $20k a year and I have roughly another $10k in savings (considering our joint savings with my wife to be half mine) and nothing else of significant value besides items of daily use, so which of you 1-%-ers is gonna send me some? Remember to adjust for local / regional mean. | ||
|
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On January 23 2018 02:18 plated.rawr wrote: Remember to adjust for local / regional mean. Global imbalance is probably even larger problem than local. The concentration of wealth into a small part of the world is a geopolitical ticking bomb. Not that I live in particularly exploited countries, but still even with the EU, the disparity between rich and poor countries causes huge friction and in my opinion the greatest achievement of the EU is that it managed to bridge the gap at least partially. | ||
|
Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On January 23 2018 01:46 Big J wrote: The study talks about 82% of wealth increase and not 82% of income and 1% of wealth and again, not 1% of income. Let's crunch some numbers: If you earn 30k in austria you are left with 22k net income. If you save superheavily with that income in austria you end up with a wealth gain of +10k euro (probably not in a city, hence the economy around you is probably subsidized) at the end of the year. The wealth growth was about 16,7 trillion dollar worldwide (2016-2017). So we have: (16,7 trillion*0.82)/(7.5 billion people * 0.01)=174933 dollar gain on average for the richest 1%. I believe your 10k € hermit living style won't put you anywhere comfortably. Using means within the top 1% doesn't really work. Entry in the 1% group for 2016 was 744k$, entry in the 1% group for 2017 was 770k$, so once again an increase of 26k$ which isn't that scary. I haven't yet found how the 82% figure is calculated. I'm sure the 82% is available somewhere in the numbers, but careful with the numbers you select to crunch. (closest I have so far is using 2016 and 2017 numbers : share of the 1% is shown to grow from 50.1% (2016) to 50.8% (2017) of the overall household wealth, which would mean 10.3 billion out of 16.7 if the estimated total is 280 trillion (2017) and 61% of the overall gain). | ||
| ||
