Malaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 63

On July 23 2014 00:11 Derez wrote:


Its CNN so who really knows what they're basing it on but still. Edit: its from the pentagon apparently.

On July 23 2014 00:18 radiatoren wrote:

That is not what flight aware would indicate when I visited it. Unfortunately it is paywalled for data more than 14 days ago, but you can clearly see some variations in the routes taken over Ukraine: src

On July 23 2014 00:20 xM(Z wrote:

can you tell from that picture if the plane dropped in altitude but still remained on the same direction?

On July 22 2014 23:41 LegalLord wrote:

A bit late of a response, but I think this deserves one.

It's probably not a coincidence that they started at the same time, but it's not a conspiracy either. Israel was clearly planning on invading Gaza, but they waited until there was something to draw attention away from the invasion. It's a somewhat common strategy for internationally unpopular military action.

On July 23 2014 00:22 m4ini wrote:


Personally, i don't. The only difference is after the 17th. Other than that, all the flights go pretty much spot on through the same route over Snizhne.

Maybe i'm doing it ronk.

On July 23 2014 00:30 radiatoren wrote:

Mostly inspired by the picture in this article in danish. When that is said the flight routes seems to have been changed on flightaware compared to that graphic. Only the july 12 southern route sticks out now.

EU foreign ministers failed to agree new sanctions against Russia at a Brussels meeting on Tuesday and instead tasked their diplomats to explore possible wider-ranging measures this week.

Although such measures could include cutting off access to Europe's capital markets and an arms embargo, they would be contingent on whether Russia fails to cooperate in the future, not on past behaviour - like ties to the downing of MH17, reports the FT's Peter Spiegel in Brussels.
Source

EU today:
The Council adopted the following conclusions:
"1) The EU and its Member States are shocked and deeply saddened by the downing of the
Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 in Donetsk, Ukraine and the tragic loss of so many innocent lives.
Citizens from many nationalities including many from the European Union have been killed. We
wish to convey our deepest condolences to the people and governments of all the affected nations
and in particular to the families of the victims. The EU welcomes unanimous adoption of the UNSC
Resolution of 21 July 2014 and looks forward to its full implementation.
2) The EU calls on the separatist groups in the area to ensure full, immediate, safe and secure
access to the site and surrounding area, including a viable security corridor, in order to proceed
with victim identification as well as to recover remains and possessions of those deceased in the
downing and provide for swift, professional and dignified repatriation of the victims. The EU
expects all those in the area to preserve the crash site intact, including by refraining from
destroying, moving, or disturbing remains, wreckage, equipment, debris or personal belongings.
3) The EU supports the call of the UNSC and OSCE Permanent Council for a full, transparent
and independent international investigation in accordance with the international civil aviation
guidelines, in co-ordination with the ICAO, including with participation of technical and forensic
experts from the Ukrainian, Malaysian, and Dutch governments as well as other technical and
forensic experts. All relevant materials recovered from the site should be made available to the
international investigation immediately and without interference.
4) The EU emphasises that those directly and indirectly responsible for the downing must be
held accountable and brought to justice and calls on all states and parties to fully cooperate to this
end.
5) The Council urges the Russian Federation to actively use its influence over the illegally
armed groups in order to achieve full, immediate, safe and secure access to the site, full
cooperation with the work on recovering remains and possessions and full cooperation with the
independent investigation, including unhindered access to the site of the downing for as long as
needed for the investigation and possible follow up investigations. The OSCE Special Monitoring
Mission, already present in Eastern Ukraine, must be allowed to play its full role in facilitating and
safe-guarding the access.
The Council urges Russia to stop the increasing flow of weapons, equipment and militants across
the border in order to achieve rapid and tangible results in de-escalation. The Council further urges
Russia to withdraw its additional troops from the border area.

On July 23 2014 00:34 m4ini wrote:


I can't read any danish, could you tell me what they're quoting as their source? Because judging by flightaware and flightradar24, the only "outstanding" flight is indeed the 12th. Would need to check weather etc, maybe they flew around a thunderstorm or something.

But other than the 12th, everything i checked looked vastly different to what your newspaper is saying.

International monitors say the crash site is being compromised, with pieces of wreckage cut into, possibly to retrieve victims (same source)

On July 23 2014 00:54 radiatoren wrote:

Yep I agree. They cited flightaware as the source. However I confirmed that the data on that site at the time was what the source claimed Ie. my post here. I guess they must have had an allignment problem of the tracees at that time since it has been changed. If you look at the tracees now and then you will note that the routes havent changed internally compared to anything but the july 17 flight.

On July 23 2014 00:26 xM(Z wrote:

yea well, who is going to sanction Israel?; it's not like they're russians.

On July 23 2014 01:39 Sub40APM wrote:

Israel is already sanctioned by parties -- the Arab League and Iran -- that consider themselves in a cold war with Israel.
Lets not make martyrs out of Russia, I am sure if Israel supported terrorists had blown up a jet with 295 civilians by accident because they are too stupid to operate a sophisticated SAM there would be serious sanctions too -- but just like the current sanctions of Russia, wholly outside of the UN system.

On July 23 2014 01:46 ticklishmusic wrote:


To make an inflammatory/ off-topic statement, the Israelis have screwed up and killed more than 295 civilians in the last couple weeks, albeit they weren't all in a jet.

“Russia is virtually being presented with ultimatums, either let us destroy a population that is close to Russia or we will introduce some sanctions against you,” Putin said. “It’s a strange logic and, of course, absolutely unacceptable.”

(Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday Russia would use its influence with separatists in east Ukraine to allow a full investigation into the downing of a Malaysian airliner, but said the West must put pressure on Kiev to end hostilities.

Putin also called on Western powers not to meddle in Russia's domestic affairs and said steps were needed to strengthen the country's military capabilities because of moves by NATO and to protect the economy from "external threats".

On July 23 2014 01:49 Sub40APM wrote:

Yes, and again, the people who view those civilians as 'their own' are boycotting Israel and have been since 1948. If EU sanctions Russia, China and Japan wont. You see my point? Crying that "woe is me woe is me Russia, I am ALWAYS being picked on" is ludicrous. People who perceive Russian actions in recent years as hostile are reacting. Others are not. The EU business community (and the French government, that is proceeding with sale of arms to Russia) is still firmly in Russia's corner though, so again, the analogy is a false one.

On July 23 2014 02:30 xM(Z wrote:

but you see, those who think of or view themselves as the world police should not use double standards.

Parts of the Malaysia Airlines plane shot down over Ukraine were found sawed in half, USA Today reported.

According to the newspaper, international monitors, who had only recently gained access to the area, found that the cockpit of the plane had been breached with a saw. Until Monday, Russian-backed separatists had controlled the site.

It is unclear who damaged the plane or why.

Fergal Keane, a BBC correspondent, confirmed USA Today's report. Investigators told Keane that the plane had been hacked into with a diesel-powered saw. Keane said that the first-class area had been found damaged.

Many in the international community have accused separatists of gunning down the commercial plane. Both the separatists and the Kremlin have denied such allegations.