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Malaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 45

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In order to maintain some kind of respectable thread quality and to show some respect for those who lost friends in this tragedy, we're forced to enact a hard line policy for this thread. Any posts holding an opinion on who is responsible or making an accusation that is not held by neutral media will be banned. Policy is in effect from page 27 onwards.

Specifically, citing a Ukrainian or Russian source for your claims is going to get you banned. Opinions/facts/accusations arising from neutral media sources (i.e. media whose country of origin is not Ukraine, Russia or one of its puppet states) will be permitted. This policy extends to all forms of media; if a youtube video or picture has not come through a neutral media source then don't post it or you'll be banned. If you wish to discuss this policy please use this website feedback thread.

Updated policy on aggressive posting and insults.
JoeCool
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany2520 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 14:52:25
July 19 2014 14:52 GMT
#881
On July 19 2014 23:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
MOSCOW (AP) — A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.


Source


This sounds like E01S02 from "Sherlock".
It´s kinda strange that it was again a plane from Malaysia Airlines. Their stocks have a worth of like 8 (€)cent, at first I thought this might be an economic thing. You know... conspiracy and so on.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
July 19 2014 14:55 GMT
#882
On July 19 2014 23:52 JoeCool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 23:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
MOSCOW (AP) — A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.


Source


This sounds like E01S02 from "Sherlock".
It´s kinda strange that it was again a plane from Malaysia Airlines. Their stocks have a worth of like 8 (€)cent, at first I thought this might be an economic thing. You know... conspiracy and so on.


Since there was a plane literally less than 2 minutes behind it on roughly the same route, i heavily doubt it.
On track to MA1950A.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
July 19 2014 15:08 GMT
#883
On July 19 2014 23:48 napo wrote:
Well thats just shows how retarded they really are, lol.

I mean these are the same people who allegedly believed the plane was carrying spies as it had no other legitimate reason to be there. If the intercepts are to be believed.

Grasping at straws or just living in denial.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
July 19 2014 15:29 GMT
#884
To all the people accusing the Dutch prime minister of inaction. First of all I like politicians who are showing restraint. It's hard to unsay or undo things you've said or done. Second, he sent the minister of foreign affairs to Ukraine to investigate the situation himself. He is there with a team of experts. What more do you want? Empty threats? Big words? And for God's sake let a man dress how he wants on his lunch break. Whatever happens you still need to eat and rest.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28524 Posts
July 19 2014 15:38 GMT
#885
On July 20 2014 00:29 Sjokola wrote:
To all the people accusing the Dutch prime minister of inaction. First of all I like politicians who are showing restraint. It's hard to unsay or undo things you've said or done. Second, he sent the minister of foreign affairs to Ukraine to investigate the situation himself. He is there with a team of experts. What more do you want? Empty threats? Big words? And for God's sake let a man dress how he wants on his lunch break. Whatever happens you still need to eat and rest.

I'm normally not a fan of Rutte but I agree wholeheartedly with your post. This is how you should act in this situation.
I Protoss winner, could it be?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 19 2014 16:02 GMT
#886
The crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which went down yesterday afternoon after being shot with a missile, is now being looted. This is not only causing issues for the investigation, but also for the families of the victims on board, who will now not be able to recover the lost property of the 298 dead passengers and crew.

After the crash, investigators were unable to get to the site quickly and rope it off to preserve evidence. This allowed armed separatists and locals to essentially raid the scene. Suitcases were removed from the wreckage and pillaged. The coldhearted looters stole a variety of personal possessions, but left behind some apparent undesirables: a Minnie Mouse lunchbox, a Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal, family photographs, and intact passports.

As for what they took, wallets and credit cards were a favorite. A photojournalist at the scene said, "There isn't a single cellphone, wallet with money or camera to be found in any handbag or on the bodies. It's like they all mysteriously disappeared overnight."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
July 19 2014 16:05 GMT
#887
Dutch Prime Minister Rutte was pissed off about the moving of bodies, just called Putin to say that he's losing his chances to show the good will that he promised us yesterday.
Neosteel Enthusiast
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 16:09:45
July 19 2014 16:06 GMT
#888
The list of deceased has been made public. For anyone who wants to check if they know anyone who was on board.

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH17/MH17 PAX AND CREW MANIFEST.pdf

Edit: It's so horrible you can see the names of whole families...
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
July 19 2014 16:07 GMT
#889
The removing of evidence should be considered a plea of guild right?
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
July 19 2014 16:15 GMT
#890
On July 20 2014 00:38 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 00:29 Sjokola wrote:
To all the people accusing the Dutch prime minister of inaction. First of all I like politicians who are showing restraint. It's hard to unsay or undo things you've said or done. Second, he sent the minister of foreign affairs to Ukraine to investigate the situation himself. He is there with a team of experts. What more do you want? Empty threats? Big words? And for God's sake let a man dress how he wants on his lunch break. Whatever happens you still need to eat and rest.

I'm normally not a fan of Rutte but I agree wholeheartedly with your post. This is how you should act in this situation.

I disagree. Where's the outrage, any form of emotion? One of the first duties of the dutch govt is to protect its citizens, that comes way before securing the sale of flower bulbs to russia, yet somehow the entire cabinet is nothing but passive and trying very hard not to upset anyone even a little.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 16:16:06
July 19 2014 16:15 GMT
#891
On July 20 2014 01:07 Sjokola wrote:
The removing of evidence should be considered a plea of guild right?


No, but it's obstruction
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
July 19 2014 16:20 GMT
#892
When since were Dutch politicians expected to act like overblown hollywood style American politicians?

There's nothing to "protect". They are already dead. From an accident. Nobody from Ukraine is targetting the Dutch. And from what can be seen, he is doing everything short visiting the war zone or invasion to investigate and recover the bodies. What course of action would you propose?
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6014 Posts
July 19 2014 16:21 GMT
#893
On July 20 2014 01:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which went down yesterday afternoon after being shot with a missile, is now being looted. This is not only causing issues for the investigation, but also for the families of the victims on board, who will now not be able to recover the lost property of the 298 dead passengers and crew.

After the crash, investigators were unable to get to the site quickly and rope it off to preserve evidence. This allowed armed separatists and locals to essentially raid the scene. Suitcases were removed from the wreckage and pillaged. The coldhearted looters stole a variety of personal possessions, but left behind some apparent undesirables: a Minnie Mouse lunchbox, a Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal, family photographs, and intact passports.

As for what they took, wallets and credit cards were a favorite. A photojournalist at the scene said, "There isn't a single cellphone, wallet with money or camera to be found in any handbag or on the bodies. It's like they all mysteriously disappeared overnight."

...what pure dirtbags.

The Dutch government may or may not be doing a good job but a gossip paparazzi photo of one guy isn't evidence either way, don't buy into that kind of "news."
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 16:22:48
July 19 2014 16:22 GMT
#894
On July 20 2014 01:15 Derez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2014 00:38 Penev wrote:
On July 20 2014 00:29 Sjokola wrote:
To all the people accusing the Dutch prime minister of inaction. First of all I like politicians who are showing restraint. It's hard to unsay or undo things you've said or done. Second, he sent the minister of foreign affairs to Ukraine to investigate the situation himself. He is there with a team of experts. What more do you want? Empty threats? Big words? And for God's sake let a man dress how he wants on his lunch break. Whatever happens you still need to eat and rest.

I'm normally not a fan of Rutte but I agree wholeheartedly with your post. This is how you should act in this situation.

I disagree. Where's the outrage, any form of emotion? One of the first duties of the dutch govt is to protect its citizens, that comes way before securing the sale of flower bulbs to russia, yet somehow the entire cabinet is nothing but passive and trying very hard not to upset anyone even a little.


What purpose exactly would that serve? Can you prove he is not protecting the dutch citizens, or is him dressed casual at lunch all you got as proof that he doesn't do enough?

I do understand that people are upset and angry (i already said earlier that these people over there get my blood boiling) - but what you people shout for is not just unrealistic but dumb. Sorry. It's proletic. If your foreign minister with a team is already flying down there, what else do you want him to send, the dutch military? Nukes?

Again. Be reasonable. Just because a person (even if he's the PM) has lunch in a fashion that you don't like, doesn't mean he's not doing whatever he realistically can to solve the issues at hand.
On track to MA1950A.
Shival
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands643 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 16:25:06
July 19 2014 16:23 GMT
#895
Actually Rutte is pretty much warning Putin that Russia is very close to losing any and all cooperation with the Netherlands and by a lesser extent the EU.
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
July 19 2014 16:25 GMT
#896
This is so shady it's unbelievable
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 16:30:27
July 19 2014 16:28 GMT
#897
I dont give a shit about the clothing, but imagine the kind of tone you'd be hearing from a french/english/german PM, and how they would take initiative within the EU and NATO and try to get some form of pressure going. Rutte reduces himself to be a small politician of a small country who just stands by on the sidelines and waits for Merkel/Cameron to say something. We have good relations with the germans, the english and the french, how about some coalition building and some sanctions that really put the hurt on (lets include Shell while were at it for example).

Not demanding military action, although I wouldn't consider sending troops to secure the crash site out of line or anything, but some form of outrage, some sort of statement would be worthwhile. Instead of a decent prime minister we end up with a supermarket supervisor who just wants to keep selling as much as possible to the people that sent their mercenaries to cause havoc in another state.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
July 19 2014 16:29 GMT
#898
On July 20 2014 01:28 Derez wrote:
I dont give a shit about the clothing, but imagine the kind of tone you'd be hearing from a french/english/german PM, and how they would take initiative within the EU and NATO and try to get some form of pressure going. Rutte reduces himself to be a small politician of a small country who just stands by on the sidelines and waits for Merkel/Cameron to say something.

Not demanding military action, although I wouldn't consider sending troops to secure the crash site out of line or anything, but some form of outrage, some sort of statement would be worthwhile. Instead of a decent prime minister we end up with a supermarket supervisor who just wants to keep selling as much as possible to the people that sent their mercenaries to cause havoc in another state.

You didn't watch the 17.45 press conference I reckon? He was very pissed off.
Neosteel Enthusiast
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 16:30:15
July 19 2014 16:30 GMT
#899
This incident reminds me of Korean Air Lines Flight 007 in some respects. A plane goes down via military action and a cover up ensues with vital evidence packed up and put in storage.

My deepest sympathies go too the people who lost their lives and their families
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 16:35:34
July 19 2014 16:33 GMT
#900
On July 20 2014 01:28 Derez wrote:
I dont give a shit about the clothing, but imagine the kind of tone you'd be hearing from a french/english/german PM, and how they would take initiative within the EU and NATO and try to get some form of pressure going. Rutte reduces himself to be a small politician of a small country who just stands by on the sidelines and waits for Merkel/Cameron to say something.


They wouldn't. Remember, there was germans and whatnot on that plane too. While i agree that the dutch were hit harder in terms of "magnitude of the tradegy", there's still dead people that aren't dutch. I may agree about saberrattling if it was a deliberate attack on the plane, but so far every single piece of "evidence" (well no such thing, don't know the english word for "Indizien") points to an accident. Who do you threaten for an accident? That happened above basically a fighting zone?

If anything, it's malaysian airlines, or better the european councilthing that deemed the space safe (apparently they ordered the plane to fly even lower) to fly. That's where anger should go.


Not demanding military action, although I wouldn't consider sending troops to secure the crash site out of line or anything, but some form of outrage, some sort of statement would be worthwhile. Instead of a decent prime minister we end up with a supermarket supervisor who just wants to keep selling as much as possible to the people that sent their mercenaries to cause havoc in another state.


It is out of line, wtf. If you send military personal to occupy space for however long into a foreign country, it's quite a big deal. Now the UN on the other hand, i mentioned it earlier, should have a unified "emergency-medevac-thingy" for stuff like this.

Since i'm not sure because it didn't interest me too much, there wasn't a statement of the dutch PM to this?
On track to MA1950A.
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