EPTOn July 18 2014 03:35 Steveling wrote:
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
This is huge.
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
This is huge.
that link doesn't work for me. What is there?
Malaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 11
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
that link doesn't work for me. What is there? | ||
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8882
2720 Posts
1) Russia's military fucked up. Plausibility:possible, but low. People in the west believe that Russians are idiots, but they are not. They sent people to space after all and I dont think they would blindly shoot at stuff. Especially as this puts them in a very bad spot. 2) Russians shot down the plane deliberately. Does not make much sense. Although maybe this would be some play to setup the status quo, now their army could enter the separatist zone to "bring peace" and further consolidate division of Ukraine. Plausibility: low. In theory this could be a sort of a "check" like in poker. People who claim that NATO will do something know nothing about politics. It's not the first plane to be shot down. Sadly, probably not the last. NATO cant enter Ukraine, since it's a souverign country. USA signed a treaty according to which it would defend the borders of Ukraine, but you didnt do jack shit, so why would you do anything now? Also, everyone and their dog knows that Ukraine is the "border" of Russia against NATO and Russia does not want NATO to crawl there. Sanctions? They wont hurt Russia much, since EU cant really impose them. Too reliant on Russian gas. Although in theory Ukraine could stop the gas flowing... but Ukraine has gigantic debt towards Russia and such play would hurt them even more (they WILL have to repay it one day).\ Can the UN even impose sanctions on Russia? Russia can veto sanctions on Russia I think. 3) Separatists shoot it down. Some sources (although on the internet you can write anything) claim that the separatists in fact had former Ukrainian anti air systems. Maybe some poorly trained idiot started shooting? Plausibility: medium. Some people write that Ukrainians dont have "such technology". Wikipedia says it's something from the 70's. Ukraine had nuclear weapons earlier... so why wouldnt they have anti air from the 70's? (btw. Ukraine gave back their nukes back to Russia in exchange for guarantees from both Russia and USA to defend their borders. Paper accepts everything I guess..). 4) Separatists got the anti air system from Russians and shot it down. Plausibility: low. Maybe some cocky guy went trigger happy. On the other hand would the Russians be so stupid to allow this? Some claim that the "separatists" are simply Russian army not wearing any insignia. 5) Ukrainians shot down the plane. False flag operation. This brings the world attention to the crisis and hope that someone will support them, since USA betrayed them already. Plausibility: everything is always possible, but this is just my speculation. What can we be very sure: whoever shot down the plane is probably doing a massive cover up right now. | ||
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:35 Steveling wrote: http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ This is huge. The only thing huge about that is that anyone would take RT seriously. You signposted your bias from the get go and it only getting worse. | ||
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Grettin
42383 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:41 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: that link doesn't work for me. What is there? President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 295, Interfax news agency reports citing sources. LIVE UPDATES:Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity. "The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added. Flight MH17 crashed in Ukraine on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpar, and was carrying 295 people. The passenger plane was expected to enter Russian airspace at 5:20pm local time, but never did, a Russian aviation industry source was cited by Reuters. “The plane crashed 60km away from the border, the plane had an emergency beacon,” ITAR-TASS cited its source. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
Everyone knows when Putin travels he likes to transverse Ukraine from the North West to the South East before making a 90 degree turn to reach Moscow | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:41 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: that link doesn't work for me. What is there? Says that putin's flight was eerily close to the crushed plane's. So mby the ukrainians tried to kill him but hit the civilians instead. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6336 Posts
Where does it say that the system is operational? I remember Kiev saying 3 weeks ago that they rendered all systems in the anti-air base useless while they were retreating. Of course they wouldn't say its a useless peace of junk, its a propaganda war after all. | ||
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:36 zeo wrote: People seem to think a bunch of criminals can operate half a billion dollars worth of equipment that takes years of training to use and which might or might not be operational. The only side we know have BUK systems fully operational in the area are the Kiev military. Buk missile systems can be traced from space easily with NATO/Russian satellites so we should know very soon where the missiles were fired from. I just watched a special on german tv and they stated that even the us military shot down an iranian passenger plane by accident in 1988 in the persian gulf. It diesnt make much sense for either side to shoot down a passenger plane, so an accident would make the most sense. They also said that there are soldiers without badges fighting for the rebels. (Nobody knows who they are/ similar to the soldiers without badges that conquered crimea) So possibly people that can operate anti air weapons. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:35 Steveling wrote: http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ This is huge. rt.com | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:43 zeo wrote: Where does it say that the system is operational? I remember Kiev saying 3 weeks ago that they rendered all systems in the anti-air base useless while they were retreating. Of course they wouldn't say its a useless peace of junk, its a propaganda war after all. They could literally operate this in your living room and you wouldn't change your mind, would you? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:42 Steveling wrote: Says that putin's flight was eerily close to the crushed plane's. So mby the ukrainians tried to kill him but hit the civilians instead. Oh lol... classic RT | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6336 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:44 Nyxisto wrote: They could literally operate this in your living room and you wouldn't change your mind, would you? Please show me proof it is operational and had all the side systems necessary to take out a moving aircraft at 10km. | ||
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Aceii
Germany83 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So separatists aren't allowing anyone to access the crash site. Source ? | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:45 Aveng3r wrote: I heard that they thought it was a cargo plane? The rebel leaders allegedly have posted a report of a cargo plane being shot down with sarcastic remarks along the lines of "we have warned them not to fly in our skies" around the same time this happened, then immediately deleted those posts when it became clear that a civilian plane went down. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:46 zeo wrote: Please show me proof it is operational and had all the side systems necessary to take out a moving aircraft at 10km. I can show you proof for Rebel leaders claiming that they shot down a plane minutes before the crash happenened https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/status/489802664264212480/photo/1 | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6336 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:49 Nyxisto wrote: I can show you proof for Rebel leaders claiming that they shot down a plane minutes before the crash happenened https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/status/489802664264212480/photo/1 Source: Biased twitter account with a screenshot of a fake social media account. On July 18 2014 03:50 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: https://twitter.com/evromdn/status/489820988730003456 That look completely different to the one posted earlier. | ||
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Asymmetric
Scotland1309 Posts
On July 18 2014 03:11 Ayaz2810 wrote: Not likely. If the united states were going to get involved in this Russia/Ukraine shit, it would have probably happened already. Situations change. Some 300 dead civilians, many of which are American or European generally waken people to the harsh reality. I'd be surprised if there wasn't NATO/US involvement to some extent now if it does turn out to be Russian separatists. | ||
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