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Any PUA discussion is banned from page 42 and onwards. |
On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:11 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:52 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 26 2014 07:43 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:
[quote]
I don't believe it is. My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. Hook up culture is rampant. Long term relationships are either a temporary state of affairs or a joke for many people. It's a problem, and it's a problem for men exclusively. And there are consequences to problems.
I take some offense at the implication that I share a murderers stance; but perhaps in my anger at the situation I have mistakenly given the wrong impression. I do not share the killers judgemental attitude. When I say that women seek out the highest status men and fuck them because they can, I say it while understanding entirely that I would do the same thing. I don't believe women owe all men sex. I believe that society owes men sex to properly function, and society as it currently exists doesn't provide this for a large number of young men. You believe men are owed sex... wow No. He is saying it's unhealthy for a society where many men don't get to have sex, even though they are as attractive and everything else as women of equal caliber. Men are not entitled to sex, but at the same time, the culture of women should not be slots, and men should fuck everything that moves hurts both sides because they have different interests. So as a society, we should put emphasis on sex being a natural thing so more women partake, or convince guys sex is not important, and not worry about it, because currently there is a big struggle between young adult males and females about this issue. I agree that sex is a natural thing and the obsession that is put on sex as a way of validating masculine identity is very unhealthy but to turn around and say, as KY did, that "society owes men sex" is insane. Sex is an activity that requires another individual, to be owed it is to have an obligation on the body of someone else, it's a rapey mentality. I've gone a while without getting laid before and at no point did I go into some crazy identity crisis nor start hating women. Gender relations in society are fucked up and the media does a shitty job of promoting healthy attitudes because sex is big money and we'd all much rather buy into some ideal but men are not exclusively victims of that and the poster I was responding to completely undermined himself by attacking feminism, the movement that has done the most to fight fucked up societal views on sex. Women are predominantly the victims of sexual violence and the entitlement of men is a huge part of why that is, coming into the topic saying "well the guy had a point because men are owed sex and women are letting society down by not providing men with enough, men are owed sex" is fucked up. And yet I said almost none of that. I didn't say he had a point, and I didn't say women are letting society down by not sleeping with men like this. I merely said that the fact they exist and will continue to exist is a serious problem, and more importantly it's a problem that is new to our age. You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws? Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions. You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled." Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex. Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit.
well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post 
problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of....
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On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:11 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:52 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 26 2014 07:43 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You believe men are owed sex...
wow No. He is saying it's unhealthy for a society where many men don't get to have sex, even though they are as attractive and everything else as women of equal caliber. Men are not entitled to sex, but at the same time, the culture of women should not be slots, and men should fuck everything that moves hurts both sides because they have different interests. So as a society, we should put emphasis on sex being a natural thing so more women partake, or convince guys sex is not important, and not worry about it, because currently there is a big struggle between young adult males and females about this issue. I agree that sex is a natural thing and the obsession that is put on sex as a way of validating masculine identity is very unhealthy but to turn around and say, as KY did, that "society owes men sex" is insane. Sex is an activity that requires another individual, to be owed it is to have an obligation on the body of someone else, it's a rapey mentality. I've gone a while without getting laid before and at no point did I go into some crazy identity crisis nor start hating women. Gender relations in society are fucked up and the media does a shitty job of promoting healthy attitudes because sex is big money and we'd all much rather buy into some ideal but men are not exclusively victims of that and the poster I was responding to completely undermined himself by attacking feminism, the movement that has done the most to fight fucked up societal views on sex. Women are predominantly the victims of sexual violence and the entitlement of men is a huge part of why that is, coming into the topic saying "well the guy had a point because men are owed sex and women are letting society down by not providing men with enough, men are owed sex" is fucked up. And yet I said almost none of that. I didn't say he had a point, and I didn't say women are letting society down by not sleeping with men like this. I merely said that the fact they exist and will continue to exist is a serious problem, and more importantly it's a problem that is new to our age. You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws? Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions. You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled." Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex. Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of....
Admittedly I used some overly emotional language, but in my second post I recognized that and attempted to elaborate more calmly on my position.
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Makes me sad when people use shit like this as an opportunity to push some retarded agenda. Whether it be feminism, gun control or racism.
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On May 26 2014 09:05 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 08:51 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:47 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:44 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:34 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:22 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:18 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:
[quote]
My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. The real problem here is make-up. Make-up can turn even ugly women/girls into "beauties" so there will always be a higher percentage of "hot girls" with in a sense "too much" market-value compared to guys. In other words a guy we would rate 5/10 based on looks will never be able to find a girl that is naturally a 5/10 because make-up turns that girl into a 7/10 or 8/10 (out of his league). http://celebritytoob.toobnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/04/Celebrities_Without_Makeup_12-537x470.jpgGirls have easy tools to artificially increase their market value, men really do not (outside of getting rich or something extreme like that). So assuming equal distribution of "good looks" across both sexes, it will never be "fair game" unless we were to ban make-up. That's just how it is. Yeah.... no. Even if we accept your assumptions that the amount of sex a woman can have is based entirely on her looks and that the amount of sex a man can have is based entirely upon his wallet then a man can still dress as if he doesn't earn minimum wage, just a woman can put on makeup. Not what I said. My point is that a man cannot put on make-up and artificially increase his market value, a woman however can and in most cases does exactly that. You have to realize that women have it many times easier to make themselves look more attractive than men. That's just how it works and is precisely why 20% of men have 80% of the sex. I mean consider this, if a man publicly wears alot of make up there is a good chance they will be ridiculed, if a woman does exactly the same there is a good chance they will be idolized as a sex symbol and thought to be really attractive. It's not a fair game, never was, never will be. No, a man can't wear makeup. Instead he puts on a nice shirt, drives a car he can't afford and puts on a fancy watch. Same shit. No it's not. Most men cannot afford "nice clothing", a nice car and a fancy watch. Makeup on the other hand is comparatively extremely cheap. I mean all your post does is it tacitly admits how much more effort it takes for a man to get laid than it takes for a woman. That's EXACTLY what I mean when I say that it's not a fair game, it never was and it never will be. I'm not complaining about it, just stating the obvious. My wife spends more on makeup than I do on clothes. You have no idea how much effort women go to in order to try and achieve a physical standard set by photoshop. Men get away with looking like shit in comparison. But you're still completely missing the point. Yes people try to make themselves appear better than they are. If I'm going out I might save a joke to appear funnier or think of something to say ahead of time to appear smarter but at no point during the saying of the joke have I fundamentally altered the gender balance of society. Makeup is no different. So you are really resorting to anecdotal evidence now? I'm sorry to say this and even at a risk of sounding rude, why would I care about what your wife does and how much money she spends on things? Are you asserting that your family's spending habits are in any way indicative of the spending habits of the general population? I mean I just don't see where you are going with this. I'm reasonably sure that my resort to a sample of two is infinitely more evidence than your claims which were not only nonsensical but completley unsubstantiated. Given this I am unsure exactly why you're deciding we should be attacking each other's argument based on evidence, nor why your own stance is somehow enduring this new qualifier. Is it possible you didn't think this through? Perhaps you have your own evidence which you just thought wasn't worth mentioning in your "makeup makes gender relations biased against men" whining. But you are missing the point, my point is that women have more and comparatively cheaper tools at their disposal to make themselves look more attractive than men do. (and to compare makeup with cars is a little bit silly, a more accurate comparisson would be makeup and facial plastic surgery - those are the two options people have of "changing" their faces, one is exclusive to women and definitely cheaper than the other). I don't see how you can even dispute this. Makeup is almost exlcusive to women, everything else is equally availaible to both sexes. This is exactly why so many men cannot find a (sex) partner, because almost every woman is wearing makeup, a tool men simply do not have. And makeup has very serious implications on how we are perceived by others, it makes our faces look more symmetrical, more healthy, etc... men on the other hand are always stuck with their natural faces (outside of expensive plastic sugery). And what exactly is makeup if not a simple yet effective tool to trick men into thinking your face is more beautiful than it naturally is (a trick that is not even really available to men outside of expensive plastic surgery, like I already said). It's not a fair game, I don't understand why you can't see this.
What the fuck is this all about? The relative physical attractiveness between the sexes and their available tools to become physically attractive has nothing to do with how easy it is for one or the other to get laid. It's easier for women to get laid simply because, as a female friend of mine so eloquently put it, "men will fuck mud." Women are far more discerning. It's simply a matter of differences in biology.
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On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:11 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:52 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 26 2014 07:43 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You believe men are owed sex...
wow No. He is saying it's unhealthy for a society where many men don't get to have sex, even though they are as attractive and everything else as women of equal caliber. Men are not entitled to sex, but at the same time, the culture of women should not be slots, and men should fuck everything that moves hurts both sides because they have different interests. So as a society, we should put emphasis on sex being a natural thing so more women partake, or convince guys sex is not important, and not worry about it, because currently there is a big struggle between young adult males and females about this issue. I agree that sex is a natural thing and the obsession that is put on sex as a way of validating masculine identity is very unhealthy but to turn around and say, as KY did, that "society owes men sex" is insane. Sex is an activity that requires another individual, to be owed it is to have an obligation on the body of someone else, it's a rapey mentality. I've gone a while without getting laid before and at no point did I go into some crazy identity crisis nor start hating women. Gender relations in society are fucked up and the media does a shitty job of promoting healthy attitudes because sex is big money and we'd all much rather buy into some ideal but men are not exclusively victims of that and the poster I was responding to completely undermined himself by attacking feminism, the movement that has done the most to fight fucked up societal views on sex. Women are predominantly the victims of sexual violence and the entitlement of men is a huge part of why that is, coming into the topic saying "well the guy had a point because men are owed sex and women are letting society down by not providing men with enough, men are owed sex" is fucked up. And yet I said almost none of that. I didn't say he had a point, and I didn't say women are letting society down by not sleeping with men like this. I merely said that the fact they exist and will continue to exist is a serious problem, and more importantly it's a problem that is new to our age. You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws? Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions. You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled." Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex. Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of....
I'm hoping it's simply a phrasing issue and instead of repeatedly saying "men are entitled to sex" that what was intended was "men feel entitled to sex" that one word makes a difference and more accurately fits the point that societal pressure on young men to be sexually active and promiscuous is the problem, not that women aren't giving us sex and therefore are the root cause.
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On May 26 2014 09:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:51 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:47 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:44 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:34 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:22 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:18 SlixSC wrote:[quote] The real problem here is make-up. Make-up can turn even ugly women/girls into "beauties" so there will always be a higher percentage of "hot girls" with in a sense "too much" market-value compared to guys. In other words a guy we would rate 5/10 based on looks will never be able to find a girl that is naturally a 5/10 because make-up turns that girl into a 7/10 or 8/10 (out of his league). http://celebritytoob.toobnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/04/Celebrities_Without_Makeup_12-537x470.jpgGirls have easy tools to artificially increase their market value, men really do not (outside of getting rich or something extreme like that). So assuming equal distribution of "good looks" across both sexes, it will never be "fair game" unless we were to ban make-up. That's just how it is. Yeah.... no. Even if we accept your assumptions that the amount of sex a woman can have is based entirely on her looks and that the amount of sex a man can have is based entirely upon his wallet then a man can still dress as if he doesn't earn minimum wage, just a woman can put on makeup. Not what I said. My point is that a man cannot put on make-up and artificially increase his market value, a woman however can and in most cases does exactly that. You have to realize that women have it many times easier to make themselves look more attractive than men. That's just how it works and is precisely why 20% of men have 80% of the sex. I mean consider this, if a man publicly wears alot of make up there is a good chance they will be ridiculed, if a woman does exactly the same there is a good chance they will be idolized as a sex symbol and thought to be really attractive. It's not a fair game, never was, never will be. No, a man can't wear makeup. Instead he puts on a nice shirt, drives a car he can't afford and puts on a fancy watch. Same shit. No it's not. Most men cannot afford "nice clothing", a nice car and a fancy watch. Makeup on the other hand is comparatively extremely cheap. I mean all your post does is it tacitly admits how much more effort it takes for a man to get laid than it takes for a woman. That's EXACTLY what I mean when I say that it's not a fair game, it never was and it never will be. I'm not complaining about it, just stating the obvious. My wife spends more on makeup than I do on clothes. You have no idea how much effort women go to in order to try and achieve a physical standard set by photoshop. Men get away with looking like shit in comparison. But you're still completely missing the point. Yes people try to make themselves appear better than they are. If I'm going out I might save a joke to appear funnier or think of something to say ahead of time to appear smarter but at no point during the saying of the joke have I fundamentally altered the gender balance of society. Makeup is no different. So you are really resorting to anecdotal evidence now? I'm sorry to say this and even at a risk of sounding rude, why would I care about what your wife does and how much money she spends on things? Are you asserting that your family's spending habits are in any way indicative of the spending habits of the general population? I mean I just don't see where you are going with this. I'm reasonably sure that my resort to a sample of two is infinitely more evidence than your claims which were not only nonsensical but completley unsubstantiated. Given this I am unsure exactly why you're deciding we should be attacking each other's argument based on evidence, nor why your own stance is somehow enduring this new qualifier. Is it possible you didn't think this through? Perhaps you have your own evidence which you just thought wasn't worth mentioning in your "makeup makes gender relations biased against men" whining. But you are missing the point, my point is that women have more and comparatively cheaper tools at their disposal to make themselves look more attractive than men do. (and to compare makeup with cars is a little bit silly, a more accurate comparisson would be makeup and facial plastic surgery - those are the two options people have of "changing" their faces, one is exclusive to women and definitely cheaper than the other). I don't see how you can even dispute this. Makeup is almost exlcusive to women, everything else is equally availaible to both sexes. This is exactly why so many men cannot find a (sex) partner, because almost every woman is wearing makeup, a tool men simply do not have. And makeup has very serious implications on how we are perceived by others, it makes our faces look more symmetrical, more healthy, etc... men on the other hand are always stuck with their natural faces (outside of expensive plastic sugery). And what exactly is makeup if not a simple yet effective tool to trick men into thinking your face is more beautiful than it naturally is (a trick that is not even really available to men outside of expensive plastic surgery, like I already said). It's not a fair game, I don't understand why you can't see this. What the fuck is this all about? The relative physical attractiveness between the sexes and their available tools to become physically attractive has nothing to do with how easy it is for one or the other to get laid. It's easier for women to get laid simply because, as a female friend of mine so eloquently put it, "men will fuck mud." Women are far more discerning. It's simply a matter of differences in biology.
I very much disagree with the argument that "men will fuck mud". If anything it's just a symptome of the problem and not the cause. I mean if that really were true why would any woman even bother wearing makeup in the first place if they could easily get laid without it because "men will fuck mud" anyway?
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense now, does it?
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On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:11 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:52 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 26 2014 07:43 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:
[quote]
I don't believe it is. My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. Hook up culture is rampant. Long term relationships are either a temporary state of affairs or a joke for many people. It's a problem, and it's a problem for men exclusively. And there are consequences to problems.
I take some offense at the implication that I share a murderers stance; but perhaps in my anger at the situation I have mistakenly given the wrong impression. I do not share the killers judgemental attitude. When I say that women seek out the highest status men and fuck them because they can, I say it while understanding entirely that I would do the same thing. I don't believe women owe all men sex. I believe that society owes men sex to properly function, and society as it currently exists doesn't provide this for a large number of young men. You believe men are owed sex... wow No. He is saying it's unhealthy for a society where many men don't get to have sex, even though they are as attractive and everything else as women of equal caliber. Men are not entitled to sex, but at the same time, the culture of women should not be slots, and men should fuck everything that moves hurts both sides because they have different interests. So as a society, we should put emphasis on sex being a natural thing so more women partake, or convince guys sex is not important, and not worry about it, because currently there is a big struggle between young adult males and females about this issue. I agree that sex is a natural thing and the obsession that is put on sex as a way of validating masculine identity is very unhealthy but to turn around and say, as KY did, that "society owes men sex" is insane. Sex is an activity that requires another individual, to be owed it is to have an obligation on the body of someone else, it's a rapey mentality. I've gone a while without getting laid before and at no point did I go into some crazy identity crisis nor start hating women. Gender relations in society are fucked up and the media does a shitty job of promoting healthy attitudes because sex is big money and we'd all much rather buy into some ideal but men are not exclusively victims of that and the poster I was responding to completely undermined himself by attacking feminism, the movement that has done the most to fight fucked up societal views on sex. Women are predominantly the victims of sexual violence and the entitlement of men is a huge part of why that is, coming into the topic saying "well the guy had a point because men are owed sex and women are letting society down by not providing men with enough, men are owed sex" is fucked up. And yet I said almost none of that. I didn't say he had a point, and I didn't say women are letting society down by not sleeping with men like this. I merely said that the fact they exist and will continue to exist is a serious problem, and more importantly it's a problem that is new to our age. You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws? Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions. You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled." Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex. Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit.
He actually has clarified it.
He says "men are entitled to sex" and then continues to compare it to regular social interaction. Since, following your analogy, that also involves another human being to do something with you (over which you have zero control) you can't be "entitled" to social interaction either which I completely agree with.
He seems to call it "entitled" (which is utter bullshit) when he means "It's harder for man to get laid than for a woman and I think that sucks and is super unfair". Which, following his argument, explains how women are "to blame on a collective scale". It's kind of like complaining that redheads should pay for your sunblocker because they drive the prices up on average.
Equality means you have the right to buy sunblocker at the same price as anyone else, it means you are allowed to have social interactions like everyone else, it means you're allowed to have sex like anyone else. It does not mean that society as a collective has to guarantee that you have those things available whenever you want them right here right now. Is there some kind of imbalance? Probably, I highly doubt every single person has the same amount of social interaction or sex as the other. But looking at that imbalance and and saying "Look, there's an imbalance we need to make it 50:50 because otherwise it's not equal!" is a pretty shitty conclusion.
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On May 26 2014 09:17 Anggroth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:11 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:52 FiWiFaKi wrote:
[quote]
No.
He is saying it's unhealthy for a society where many men don't get to have sex, even though they are as attractive and everything else as women of equal caliber.
Men are not entitled to sex, but at the same time, the culture of women should not be slots, and men should fuck everything that moves hurts both sides because they have different interests.
So as a society, we should put emphasis on sex being a natural thing so more women partake, or convince guys sex is not important, and not worry about it, because currently there is a big struggle between young adult males and females about this issue.
I agree that sex is a natural thing and the obsession that is put on sex as a way of validating masculine identity is very unhealthy but to turn around and say, as KY did, that "society owes men sex" is insane. Sex is an activity that requires another individual, to be owed it is to have an obligation on the body of someone else, it's a rapey mentality. I've gone a while without getting laid before and at no point did I go into some crazy identity crisis nor start hating women. Gender relations in society are fucked up and the media does a shitty job of promoting healthy attitudes because sex is big money and we'd all much rather buy into some ideal but men are not exclusively victims of that and the poster I was responding to completely undermined himself by attacking feminism, the movement that has done the most to fight fucked up societal views on sex. Women are predominantly the victims of sexual violence and the entitlement of men is a huge part of why that is, coming into the topic saying "well the guy had a point because men are owed sex and women are letting society down by not providing men with enough, men are owed sex" is fucked up. And yet I said almost none of that. I didn't say he had a point, and I didn't say women are letting society down by not sleeping with men like this. I merely said that the fact they exist and will continue to exist is a serious problem, and more importantly it's a problem that is new to our age. You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws? Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions. You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled." Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex. Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of.... I'm hoping it's simply a phrasing issue and instead of repeatedly saying "men are entitled to sex" that what was intended was "men feel entitled to sex" that one word makes a difference and more accurately fits the point that societal pressure on young men to be sexually active and promiscuous is the problem, not that women aren't giving us sex and therefore are the root cause.
but... men feeling entitled to sex is entirely caused by narcissistic and entitled men... how is that anyone else's fault?
edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right?
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Go kwark.
Regardless of cultural circumstances or mental issues, if you think a solution to your problem is to kill random people, you're a loony. Or at least 'unfit' to live in society.
It's quite the tragedy really; despite that people knew things weren't going well, it wasn't prevented. I hope this doesnt happen again and that people will find a way to either help these people, or directly prevent them from doing stuff like this.
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On May 26 2014 09:19 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 26 2014 09:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:51 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:47 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:44 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:34 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:22 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Yeah.... no. Even if we accept your assumptions that the amount of sex a woman can have is based entirely on her looks and that the amount of sex a man can have is based entirely upon his wallet then a man can still dress as if he doesn't earn minimum wage, just a woman can put on makeup. Not what I said. My point is that a man cannot put on make-up and artificially increase his market value, a woman however can and in most cases does exactly that. You have to realize that women have it many times easier to make themselves look more attractive than men. That's just how it works and is precisely why 20% of men have 80% of the sex. I mean consider this, if a man publicly wears alot of make up there is a good chance they will be ridiculed, if a woman does exactly the same there is a good chance they will be idolized as a sex symbol and thought to be really attractive. It's not a fair game, never was, never will be. No, a man can't wear makeup. Instead he puts on a nice shirt, drives a car he can't afford and puts on a fancy watch. Same shit. No it's not. Most men cannot afford "nice clothing", a nice car and a fancy watch. Makeup on the other hand is comparatively extremely cheap. I mean all your post does is it tacitly admits how much more effort it takes for a man to get laid than it takes for a woman. That's EXACTLY what I mean when I say that it's not a fair game, it never was and it never will be. I'm not complaining about it, just stating the obvious. My wife spends more on makeup than I do on clothes. You have no idea how much effort women go to in order to try and achieve a physical standard set by photoshop. Men get away with looking like shit in comparison. But you're still completely missing the point. Yes people try to make themselves appear better than they are. If I'm going out I might save a joke to appear funnier or think of something to say ahead of time to appear smarter but at no point during the saying of the joke have I fundamentally altered the gender balance of society. Makeup is no different. So you are really resorting to anecdotal evidence now? I'm sorry to say this and even at a risk of sounding rude, why would I care about what your wife does and how much money she spends on things? Are you asserting that your family's spending habits are in any way indicative of the spending habits of the general population? I mean I just don't see where you are going with this. I'm reasonably sure that my resort to a sample of two is infinitely more evidence than your claims which were not only nonsensical but completley unsubstantiated. Given this I am unsure exactly why you're deciding we should be attacking each other's argument based on evidence, nor why your own stance is somehow enduring this new qualifier. Is it possible you didn't think this through? Perhaps you have your own evidence which you just thought wasn't worth mentioning in your "makeup makes gender relations biased against men" whining. But you are missing the point, my point is that women have more and comparatively cheaper tools at their disposal to make themselves look more attractive than men do. (and to compare makeup with cars is a little bit silly, a more accurate comparisson would be makeup and facial plastic surgery - those are the two options people have of "changing" their faces, one is exclusive to women and definitely cheaper than the other). I don't see how you can even dispute this. Makeup is almost exlcusive to women, everything else is equally availaible to both sexes. This is exactly why so many men cannot find a (sex) partner, because almost every woman is wearing makeup, a tool men simply do not have. And makeup has very serious implications on how we are perceived by others, it makes our faces look more symmetrical, more healthy, etc... men on the other hand are always stuck with their natural faces (outside of expensive plastic sugery). And what exactly is makeup if not a simple yet effective tool to trick men into thinking your face is more beautiful than it naturally is (a trick that is not even really available to men outside of expensive plastic surgery, like I already said). It's not a fair game, I don't understand why you can't see this. What the fuck is this all about? The relative physical attractiveness between the sexes and their available tools to become physically attractive has nothing to do with how easy it is for one or the other to get laid. It's easier for women to get laid simply because, as a female friend of mine so eloquently put it, "men will fuck mud." Women are far more discerning. It's simply a matter of differences in biology. I very much disagree with the argument that "men will fuck mud". If anything it's just a symptome of the problem and not the cause. I mean if that really were true why would any woman even bother wearing makeup in the first place if they could easily get laid without it because "men will fuck mud" anyway?Doesn't make a whole lot of sense now, does it?
They do it to for two reasons. First, they want to maximize their chances of getting the best man available. Second, and perhaps more importantly, women do all sorts of stuff to compete with each other. None of that changes the fact that men generally aren't that discerning. Sure, there are exceptions, but the truth is that pretty much any woman can get laid at will (assuming she doesn't mind who her partner is) if she wants to. You can't say the same about men.
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On May 26 2014 09:22 barbsq wrote:
edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right?
Depends on what you mean by "objectifying them".
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Nobody owes anyone sex. Every person, irregardless of what's in their pants, is the final arbiter of what's happening with their body, and with whom they're wanting to share it with.
That said, sexual deprivation being unhealthy for peoples' mental state is no secret, and should be avoided if we want to improve overall happiness and avoid shit like this. What would be the way forward, is political and social reform. Political, in legalizing prostutition (where currently illegal) and adding a security, social and health network around prostitutes to avoid exploitation and sexual slavery. Social reform, to remove taboos around sex, to remove shaming of sexual habits and frequency of partners, and remove stigma associated with prostitution on both the buying and selling end.
My point here, basically, is to make sex more available, and to remove the stigma association with out-of-relationship sex. Of course, I expect the political (legal) part of prostitution legalization and control being very unwieldy for society / governments, and the social part to be fiercely resisted by religious and conservative groups, so while we do have the tools to theoretically limit these kinds of events, chances are money and tradition will prevent change.
As always.
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On May 26 2014 09:27 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:22 barbsq wrote:
edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right? Depends on what you mean by "objectifying them".
well, in this context, i'd say i mean objectifying means making the assumption that men are owed sex because otherwise they'd kill people.
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On May 26 2014 09:22 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:17 Anggroth wrote:On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:11 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I agree that sex is a natural thing and the obsession that is put on sex as a way of validating masculine identity is very unhealthy but to turn around and say, as KY did, that "society owes men sex" is insane. Sex is an activity that requires another individual, to be owed it is to have an obligation on the body of someone else, it's a rapey mentality. I've gone a while without getting laid before and at no point did I go into some crazy identity crisis nor start hating women.
Gender relations in society are fucked up and the media does a shitty job of promoting healthy attitudes because sex is big money and we'd all much rather buy into some ideal but men are not exclusively victims of that and the poster I was responding to completely undermined himself by attacking feminism, the movement that has done the most to fight fucked up societal views on sex. Women are predominantly the victims of sexual violence and the entitlement of men is a huge part of why that is, coming into the topic saying "well the guy had a point because men are owed sex and women are letting society down by not providing men with enough, men are owed sex" is fucked up. And yet I said almost none of that. I didn't say he had a point, and I didn't say women are letting society down by not sleeping with men like this. I merely said that the fact they exist and will continue to exist is a serious problem, and more importantly it's a problem that is new to our age. You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws? Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions. You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled." Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex. Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of.... I'm hoping it's simply a phrasing issue and instead of repeatedly saying "men are entitled to sex" that what was intended was "men feel entitled to sex" that one word makes a difference and more accurately fits the point that societal pressure on young men to be sexually active and promiscuous is the problem, not that women aren't giving us sex and therefore are the root cause. but... men feeling entitled to sex is entirely caused by narcissistic and entitled men... how is that anyone else's fault? edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right?
At no point did I claim that women were at fault in any way. I think men feel/are entitled to sex because going without it entirely is not normal for a human being. It just isn't. If you'd rather, think of it as men need sex rather than are entitled to.
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On May 26 2014 09:29 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:22 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:17 Anggroth wrote:On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 The KY wrote:
[quote]
And yet I said almost none of that. I didn't say he had a point, and I didn't say women are letting society down by not sleeping with men like this. I merely said that the fact they exist and will continue to exist is a serious problem, and more importantly it's a problem that is new to our age. You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws? Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions. You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled." Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex. Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of.... I'm hoping it's simply a phrasing issue and instead of repeatedly saying "men are entitled to sex" that what was intended was "men feel entitled to sex" that one word makes a difference and more accurately fits the point that societal pressure on young men to be sexually active and promiscuous is the problem, not that women aren't giving us sex and therefore are the root cause. but... men feeling entitled to sex is entirely caused by narcissistic and entitled men... how is that anyone else's fault? edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right? At no point did I claim that women were at fault in any way. I think men feel/are entitled to sex because going without it entirely is not normal for a human being. It just isn't. If you'd rather, think of it as men need sex rather than are entitled to.
yes you did, it's been pointed out to you like 5 times now
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im absolutely stunned. Someone should've told that sick bastard that its not all about how man looks. No doubt that he never had a gf.
My condolences...
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On May 26 2014 09:25 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:19 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 09:16 xDaunt wrote:On May 26 2014 09:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:51 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:47 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:44 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:34 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:25 SlixSC wrote:
[quote]
Not what I said. My point is that a man cannot put on make-up and artificially increase his market value, a woman however can and in most cases does exactly that. You have to realize that women have it many times easier to make themselves look more attractive than men. That's just how it works and is precisely why 20% of men have 80% of the sex.
I mean consider this, if a man publicly wears alot of make up there is a good chance they will be ridiculed, if a woman does exactly the same there is a good chance they will be idolized as a sex symbol and thought to be really attractive.
It's not a fair game, never was, never will be.
No, a man can't wear makeup. Instead he puts on a nice shirt, drives a car he can't afford and puts on a fancy watch. Same shit. No it's not. Most men cannot afford "nice clothing", a nice car and a fancy watch. Makeup on the other hand is comparatively extremely cheap. I mean all your post does is it tacitly admits how much more effort it takes for a man to get laid than it takes for a woman. That's EXACTLY what I mean when I say that it's not a fair game, it never was and it never will be. I'm not complaining about it, just stating the obvious. My wife spends more on makeup than I do on clothes. You have no idea how much effort women go to in order to try and achieve a physical standard set by photoshop. Men get away with looking like shit in comparison. But you're still completely missing the point. Yes people try to make themselves appear better than they are. If I'm going out I might save a joke to appear funnier or think of something to say ahead of time to appear smarter but at no point during the saying of the joke have I fundamentally altered the gender balance of society. Makeup is no different. So you are really resorting to anecdotal evidence now? I'm sorry to say this and even at a risk of sounding rude, why would I care about what your wife does and how much money she spends on things? Are you asserting that your family's spending habits are in any way indicative of the spending habits of the general population? I mean I just don't see where you are going with this. I'm reasonably sure that my resort to a sample of two is infinitely more evidence than your claims which were not only nonsensical but completley unsubstantiated. Given this I am unsure exactly why you're deciding we should be attacking each other's argument based on evidence, nor why your own stance is somehow enduring this new qualifier. Is it possible you didn't think this through? Perhaps you have your own evidence which you just thought wasn't worth mentioning in your "makeup makes gender relations biased against men" whining. But you are missing the point, my point is that women have more and comparatively cheaper tools at their disposal to make themselves look more attractive than men do. (and to compare makeup with cars is a little bit silly, a more accurate comparisson would be makeup and facial plastic surgery - those are the two options people have of "changing" their faces, one is exclusive to women and definitely cheaper than the other). I don't see how you can even dispute this. Makeup is almost exlcusive to women, everything else is equally availaible to both sexes. This is exactly why so many men cannot find a (sex) partner, because almost every woman is wearing makeup, a tool men simply do not have. And makeup has very serious implications on how we are perceived by others, it makes our faces look more symmetrical, more healthy, etc... men on the other hand are always stuck with their natural faces (outside of expensive plastic sugery). And what exactly is makeup if not a simple yet effective tool to trick men into thinking your face is more beautiful than it naturally is (a trick that is not even really available to men outside of expensive plastic surgery, like I already said). It's not a fair game, I don't understand why you can't see this. What the fuck is this all about? The relative physical attractiveness between the sexes and their available tools to become physically attractive has nothing to do with how easy it is for one or the other to get laid. It's easier for women to get laid simply because, as a female friend of mine so eloquently put it, "men will fuck mud." Women are far more discerning. It's simply a matter of differences in biology. I very much disagree with the argument that "men will fuck mud". If anything it's just a symptome of the problem and not the cause. I mean if that really were true why would any woman even bother wearing makeup in the first place if they could easily get laid without it because "men will fuck mud" anyway?Doesn't make a whole lot of sense now, does it? They do it to for two reasons. First, they want to maximize their chances of getting the best man available. Second, and perhaps more importantly, women do all sorts of stuff to compete with each other. None of that changes the fact that men generally aren't that discerning. Sure, there are exceptions, but the truth is that pretty much any woman can get laid at will (assuming she doesn't mind who her partner is) if she wants to. You can't say the same about men.
Well duh. And alot of it has to do with makeup being an easy tool for women to make themselves look more attractive than they naturally are, something that is alot more expensive (facial plastic surgery, buying an expensive car) for men. That is the exact reason why so many women can compete to get the best man available, because makeup allows them to get an easy "one-up" on all the equivalent men of similar natural attractiveness.
That is why it's so skewed, you don't realize that you are discussing a symptome, I'm discussing the cause.
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On May 26 2014 09:30 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:29 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 09:22 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:17 Anggroth wrote:On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:32 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You opened with "women aren't to blame... at least not individually". No shit women aren't to blame for some man shooting a bunch of people but for some reason you seem to think they might be collectively to blame? Because they didn't collectively make arrangements to ensure men like the killer got laid? Maybe they should have all drawn straws?
Could you please elaborate on what you meant by "at least not invidually" here so I can work out exactly why you think women might collectively be responsible for his actions.
You then move on to "Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled."
Well that's about a 6 on the Shauni scale already. You don't want to be on the Shauni scale. So, you think men are entitled to sex, the corollary being that you think women are obligated to give men sex.
Clearly you have some issues with women, take it up with a therapist, in the mean time try not to shoot anyone. k thx You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now. I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next. I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of.... I'm hoping it's simply a phrasing issue and instead of repeatedly saying "men are entitled to sex" that what was intended was "men feel entitled to sex" that one word makes a difference and more accurately fits the point that societal pressure on young men to be sexually active and promiscuous is the problem, not that women aren't giving us sex and therefore are the root cause. but... men feeling entitled to sex is entirely caused by narcissistic and entitled men... how is that anyone else's fault? edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right? At no point did I claim that women were at fault in any way. I think men feel/are entitled to sex because going without it entirely is not normal for a human being. It just isn't. If you'd rather, think of it as men need sex rather than are entitled to. yes you did, it's been pointed out to you like 5 times now
'This isn't to say that women are to blame.' - Me, in my first post
Hm.
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On May 26 2014 09:33 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:30 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:29 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 09:22 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:17 Anggroth wrote:On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:42 The KY wrote:
[quote]
You're misunderstanding me, even though I have made efforts to clarify. When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility. Forgive me but I'm quite certain I've gone over this more than once now.
I think men are entitled to sex, yes. Sex is a part of life, isn't it? Like social interactions, it's a pretty essential part of a healthy human life. Particularly for young men. The corollary is not that women are obligated to give men sex. But it is something that men should be getting, it is simply some men's misfortune to be born into a time that doesn't provide them with the tools to get it, and instead they end up sitting idly by in seething jealousy as the women they see as practically angelic jump from one more attractive, confident man to the next.
I can assure you I have no issues with women, but I worry very much about the men that do, but rather than simply dismissing them as hateful misogynists I just wonder if there is a cause for their issues. But hey feel free to make assumptions on my character and indeed mental health. 'k thx' Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of.... I'm hoping it's simply a phrasing issue and instead of repeatedly saying "men are entitled to sex" that what was intended was "men feel entitled to sex" that one word makes a difference and more accurately fits the point that societal pressure on young men to be sexually active and promiscuous is the problem, not that women aren't giving us sex and therefore are the root cause. but... men feeling entitled to sex is entirely caused by narcissistic and entitled men... how is that anyone else's fault? edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right? At no point did I claim that women were at fault in any way. I think men feel/are entitled to sex because going without it entirely is not normal for a human being. It just isn't. If you'd rather, think of it as men need sex rather than are entitled to. yes you did, it's been pointed out to you like 5 times now 'This isn't to say that women are to blame.' - Me, in my first post Hm.
you left part of that quote out. Maybe try finishing it.
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On May 26 2014 09:34 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 09:33 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 09:30 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:29 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 09:22 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:17 Anggroth wrote:On May 26 2014 09:10 barbsq wrote:On May 26 2014 09:03 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 08:53 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Okay, you seem to think this is a debate. It's not really, it's an intervention. You really need to understand this before you rape anyone. You are not entitled to sex, not from anyone. Women don't owe you sex. If you're not getting enough sex then that's not an issue with women, that's an issue with you. Your beliefs about women are frankly dangerous and the fact that you seem to not know this is even more shocking. Seek help. I think I'm done being polite because your reading comprehension seems to be lacking. How many times must I explain that I don't think women owe men sex before you actually believe it? I'm saying that if there is a society where large portions of men do not have access to sex then it is a problem. Is this difficult to understand? Do I need to put my reading glasses on just to make sure I'm not accidentally typing 'men don't get enough sex so women should fuck those men because those men deserve it and should take what they deserve'? If it's worth anything to you, I'm not speaking from experience here. But that doesn't mean the subject isn't of interest to me. "men are entitled to sex" "I believe that society owes men sex" So, we've established that men are entitled to sex and that society owes it to them. Who will be paying this debt? Presumably women, unless all the sexually deprived guys fuck each other which honestly wouldn't be a bad idea. But you believe that women should be meeting this obligation, or else face the consequences like this shooting which you believe are inevitable if they don't. A point you made when you wrote "This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway.", that they collectively caused this to happen by failing to provide the sex quota. You seem to think that unless women give sex out more freely and evenly then they'll get shot, something they should have known. What you're experiencing here is the words that you wrote. Yes, they're idiotic. Yes, they're incredibly sexist. Yes, they're really quite rapey. They're still your words. You haven't clarified shit. well he's trying pretty hard to back-track out of his first post problem is, that's a deep hole to climb out of.... I'm hoping it's simply a phrasing issue and instead of repeatedly saying "men are entitled to sex" that what was intended was "men feel entitled to sex" that one word makes a difference and more accurately fits the point that societal pressure on young men to be sexually active and promiscuous is the problem, not that women aren't giving us sex and therefore are the root cause. but... men feeling entitled to sex is entirely caused by narcissistic and entitled men... how is that anyone else's fault? edit: it's that sort of rapey feeling that kwark was pointing out. It's women's fault that we're objectifying them, they deserve it... right? At no point did I claim that women were at fault in any way. I think men feel/are entitled to sex because going without it entirely is not normal for a human being. It just isn't. If you'd rather, think of it as men need sex rather than are entitled to. yes you did, it's been pointed out to you like 5 times now 'This isn't to say that women are to blame.' - Me, in my first post Hm. you left part of that quote out. Maybe try finishing it.
'At least not individually.'
Next post
'When I say 'not individually', I mean to say that it is society, not women, that must bear responsibility.'
Man it's so hard to type this when I'm actively repressing the urge to go rape someone because they owe me it, amirite.
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EPT
