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Any PUA discussion is banned from page 42 and onwards. |
On May 26 2014 04:55 Wombat_NI wrote:
PUA is being dragged in where there is no need to drag it in. The feminist postings have centred around male 'entitlement', where in PUA circles is it advocated that you're entitled to anything without putting in the hard graft.
By all means criticise it for the many valid reasons that exist, but that's not one of them.
As someone who used to be very into pua but is not anymore, entitlment is considered an essential mindset to get women who are very physically attractive.
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On May 26 2014 04:55 Wombat_NI wrote:
PUA is being dragged in where there is no need to drag it in. The feminist postings have centered around male 'entitlement', where in PUA circles is it advocated that you're entitled to anything without putting in the hard graft.
By all means criticize it for the many valid reasons that exist, but that's not one of them.
I'm not quite sure why PUA is dragged into this negatively. PUA is about giving guys more options with women. More ways to win the affection of women instead of putting most of the of emphasis on looks. PUA learn that relationships are not guaranteed, and fault of not getting a women's affection is internal, not external. It's your fault, not the women's. Many PUA would build a skillset such as learn how to dance, play an instrument, sing, etc to casually demonstrate higher value. They would constantly try to improve themselves. What a PUA doesn't do is shoved it in a women's face and "hey! LOVE ME!" which I sense is what went wrong with this guy and his failed attempt at PUA.
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This is a horrible thing and I wish I knew of a way to help the families hurt by the shooting but some things said in this thread really disturb me.
Calling him crazy and saying that there was probably nothing to do about it really sucks. I'm pretty sure that there is plenty that could have been done, or not done, to avoid this.
Maybe if we taught our kids to be tolerant, not assholes, we'd avoid events like this. Now I know some people will think "But we teach our kids to be tolerant!", maybe even "We go to church!" or "We help this or that minority in our area!". That's cool, now look at the number of people who protest against same-sex marriage, the number of people that see a terrorist when they meet an arab, the number of people against immigration because "These blacks/mexicans/roms steal our jobs and TVs". There is still some serious work to do on being tolerant.
Maybe if we shamed hypocrites, liars and egoists instead of shaming people's physical attributes, sexual desires, beliefs or whatever, we'd avoid events like this. Same point as above, most people will tell you how they agree with this, but then do not practice it at all on a daily basis.
Maybe if we taught people about finding what makes them happy and pursuing it instead of pretending that all that matters is becoming rich and famous we'd avoid events like this. But that takes a fuckton of work, that takes humility, patience and all sorts of other things most people would rather avoid doing. And that's sad.
I believe there is something seriously wrong with how we educate kids, and that this event was as much the shooter's responsibility as that of what you could call "society".
I don't believe that people are (natural) born killers, and experiments have shown how big of an effect your upbringing can have on you as an person.
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If you search for the site he got addicted to - puahate.com - it turns out to be an anti-pickup forum.
Rodger was also allegedly a member of PUAHate.com, a website for men who feel they’ve been tricked by the Pick-Up Artist pyramid scheme, which takes men’s money and promises to teach them how to have sex with women. (And not just any woman, but one who scores at least a 7 on the PUA decimal rating scale of female attractiveness.) PUA Hate is a community devoted to criticizing the Pick-Up Artist movement and “the scams, deception, and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to deceive men and profit from them." It is not, however, interested in putting an end to the PUA community’s objectification of women; it simply complains that the tips and tricks don’t work.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/05/24/elliot_rodger_the_pick_up_artist_community_s_predictable_horrible_response.html
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On May 26 2014 06:11 urboss wrote:If you search for the site he got addicted to - puahate.com - it turns out to be an anti-pickup forum. Show nested quote +Rodger was also allegedly a member of PUAHate.com, a website for men who feel they’ve been tricked by the Pick-Up Artist pyramid scheme, which takes men’s money and promises to teach them how to have sex with women. (And not just any woman, but one who scores at least a 7 on the PUA decimal rating scale of female attractiveness.) PUA Hate is a community devoted to criticizing the Pick-Up Artist movement and “the scams, deception, and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to deceive men and profit from them." It is not, however, interested in putting an end to the PUA community’s objectification of women; it simply complains that the tips and tricks don’t work. http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/05/24/elliot_rodger_the_pick_up_artist_community_s_predictable_horrible_response.html
To add some information to this in general..
Basically when it comes to the entire dating scene there are both awesome people who can actually help others in lots of ways but there are also lots of douchecanoes who enjoy the easy money from the gullible. The issue for someone looking into getting better when it comes to his "dating skillset" or his social skillset in general is that it's sometimes hard to differentiate between the two.
Now, the whole "PUAhate" deal comes from the side of people who claim that basically any and everyone involved in the dating scene is out for your money and to scam you (which obviously is just as dumb of a point of view as the opposite). From my understanding from the few people I've interacted with from that community it comes down to "I payed thousands of dollars and I didn't get a magic pill" so let's say it attracts a very... special crowd.
Dragging this into the story however is awkward as usual. Especially in this day and age there are communities for *literally* everything and guess what: 99.999% of them never go on a killing spree. I think it's kind of sick that that doesn't stop anyone from pointing fingers but I guess it helps people who didn't like whatever-we're-pointing-fingers-at anyway.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Again I'm not for/anti PUA but if nothing else it's anti-entitlement so it's why my proverbial jimmies are rustled by the blogosphere speculating and talking nonsense in that regard.
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Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha!
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On May 25 2014 09:09 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 07:00 EarthwormJim wrote:
When will America change gun policy?
My heart goes out to your community. Nothing will prevent it. Gotta love people who don't think. I feel bad for all the people shot and hope those bastards that did it suffer. So disgusting how some people are.
Do you have any idea what you said? Are you aware of the story? I ask because 'those bastards' doesn't make sense. Also, nobody should suffer maliciously, in any circumstance.
I don't understand what 'Gotta love people who don't think.' means, unless you are referring to your own post, which seems strange...
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United States44398 Posts
On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha!
this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had
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On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had
I don't believe it is. My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. Hook up culture is rampant. Long term relationships are either a temporary state of affairs or a joke for many people. It's a problem, and it's a problem for men exclusively. And there are consequences to problems.
I take some offense at the implication that I share a murderers stance; but perhaps in my anger at the situation I have mistakenly given the wrong impression. I do not share the killers judgemental attitude. When I say that women seek out the highest status men and fuck them because they can, I say it while understanding entirely that I would do the same thing. I don't believe women owe all men sex. I believe that society owes men sex to properly function, and society as it currently exists doesn't provide this for a large number of young men.
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United States44398 Posts
On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had I don't believe it is. My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. Hook up culture is rampant. Long term relationships are either a temporary state of affairs or a joke for many people. It's a problem, and it's a problem for men exclusively. And there are consequences to problems. I take some offense at the implication that I share a murderers stance; but perhaps in my anger at the situation I have mistakenly given the wrong impression. I do not share the killers judgemental attitude. When I say that women seek out the highest status men and fuck them because they can, I say it while understanding entirely that I would do the same thing. I don't believe women owe all men sex. I believe that society owes men sex to properly function, and society as it currently exists doesn't provide this for a large number of young men.
You believe men are owed sex...
wow
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On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had
Please do expand Kwark. I do feel there is inequality like mentioned above as well. Being a guy is tough in high school in my opinion.
For girls, like 10% are in the top class, 70% in middle class, and 20% in bottom class.
While for guys, it feels more like 20% top class, 20% middle class, 60% in bottom class.
I know this is a crude way of putting it, but just from my personal high school experience it's about how I saw it when the classes represent different social group levels.
I think university changes a lot of it, but I think that transition to university from grade 8 - grade 12 is a very complex time for teenagers. This is where most people make it or break it, and it's especially important to focus on education for this age group.
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On May 26 2014 07:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had I don't believe it is. My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. Hook up culture is rampant. Long term relationships are either a temporary state of affairs or a joke for many people. It's a problem, and it's a problem for men exclusively. And there are consequences to problems. I take some offense at the implication that I share a murderers stance; but perhaps in my anger at the situation I have mistakenly given the wrong impression. I do not share the killers judgemental attitude. When I say that women seek out the highest status men and fuck them because they can, I say it while understanding entirely that I would do the same thing. I don't believe women owe all men sex. I believe that society owes men sex to properly function, and society as it currently exists doesn't provide this for a large number of young men. You believe men are owed sex... wow
No.
He is saying it's unhealthy for a society where many men don't get to have sex, even though they are as attractive and everything else as women of equal caliber.
Men are not entitled to sex, but at the same time, the culture of women should not be slots, and men should fuck everything that moves hurts both sides because they have different interests.
So as a society, we should put emphasis on sex being a natural thing so more women partake, or convince guys sex is not important, and not worry about it, because currently there is a big struggle between young adult males and females about this issue.
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On May 26 2014 07:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had I don't believe it is. My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. Hook up culture is rampant. Long term relationships are either a temporary state of affairs or a joke for many people. It's a problem, and it's a problem for men exclusively. And there are consequences to problems. I take some offense at the implication that I share a murderers stance; but perhaps in my anger at the situation I have mistakenly given the wrong impression. I do not share the killers judgemental attitude. When I say that women seek out the highest status men and fuck them because they can, I say it while understanding entirely that I would do the same thing. I don't believe women owe all men sex. I believe that society owes men sex to properly function, and society as it currently exists doesn't provide this for a large number of young men. You believe men are owed sex... wow
Once again I'm getting this impression that you're reading particular lines and ignoring the rest.
I believe that society owes men sex. When I say that I don't mean men should be handed sexual gratification on a plate as a reward for being born male. If you rather, ignore the word owe if it offends you. Try; it is in society's interest that young men are getting laid.
It's easy to look at incidents like this, where the killer is a bitter woman hater and claim that the problem is that he hates women. That's not a cause, it's a symptom. Why does he hate women?
Romantic rejection is a common feature in incidents of this kind (http://www15.uta.fi/arkisto/aktk/projects/sta/Leary_Kowalski_Smith_Phillips_2003_Teasing-Rejection-and-Violence.pdf). Men like the killer aren't provided with the tools to talk to women properly, let alone lay them. Can it be denied that a lack of sex is a real problem for a man of such an age?
If you think I'm saying that girls should fuck guys like him to make sure they don't go crazy and shoot people, obviously not. But to my mind it can't be ignored that as society is, there will always be a worringly large proportion of young men like this who haven't been provided with the tools to talk to women let alone lay them, and put women on such high pedestals that when they see said women following their natural inclination to bone 'obnoxious assholes'* become angry, bitter, and jealous.
*quote from killer
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We need more sex, less censorship, less shaming, more education, and far more support for sexual health.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
We don't need more sex, society is already sexualised as fuck.
What we do need (and IMO unrelated to this case) is an end to the bizarre juxtaposition of an incredibly sexualised culture, but a relative lack of openness to actively discussing sex in deeper terms.
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Society is only partially to blame IMO.
Always we will have people that struggle to fit in with society's norm, it is only when it is combined with mental health issues when problems like this occur. Elliot could have been dissatisfied with any number of things in society, but in his individual case he was fixated on sex. Most people that get bullied, don't get laid, have shitty jobs etc. don't feel the need to go on killing spree's, it is when it is combined with delusions and obsessions when these things become serious problems.
I agree that society is a little messed up with how sex works and how it is in your face throughout the media and increasingly on TV shows- but really that is not the issue in this case. Elliot was not in touch with reality- and this was by far the main issue.
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United States44398 Posts
On May 26 2014 07:52 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:43 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had I don't believe it is. My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. Hook up culture is rampant. Long term relationships are either a temporary state of affairs or a joke for many people. It's a problem, and it's a problem for men exclusively. And there are consequences to problems. I take some offense at the implication that I share a murderers stance; but perhaps in my anger at the situation I have mistakenly given the wrong impression. I do not share the killers judgemental attitude. When I say that women seek out the highest status men and fuck them because they can, I say it while understanding entirely that I would do the same thing. I don't believe women owe all men sex. I believe that society owes men sex to properly function, and society as it currently exists doesn't provide this for a large number of young men. You believe men are owed sex... wow No. He is saying it's unhealthy for a society where many men don't get to have sex, even though they are as attractive and everything else as women of equal caliber. Men are not entitled to sex, but at the same time, the culture of women should not be slots, and men should fuck everything that moves hurts both sides because they have different interests. So as a society, we should put emphasis on sex being a natural thing so more women partake, or convince guys sex is not important, and not worry about it, because currently there is a big struggle between young adult males and females about this issue.
I agree that sex is a natural thing and the obsession that is put on sex as a way of validating masculine identity is very unhealthy but to turn around and say, as KY did, that "society owes men sex" is insane. Sex is an activity that requires another individual, to be owed it is to have an obligation on the body of someone else, it's a rapey mentality. I've gone a while without getting laid before and at no point did I go into some crazy identity crisis nor start hating women.
Gender relations in society are fucked up and the media does a shitty job of promoting healthy attitudes because sex is big money and we'd all much rather buy into some ideal but men are not exclusively victims of that and the poster I was responding to completely undermined himself by attacking feminism, the movement that has done the most to fight fucked up societal views on sex. Women are predominantly the victims of sexual violence and the entitlement of men is a huge part of why that is, coming into the topic saying "well the guy had a point because men are owed sex and women are letting society down by not providing men with enough, men are owed sex" is fucked up.
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On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex.
The real problem here is make-up. Make-up can turn even ugly women/girls into "beauties" so there will always be a higher percentage of "hot girls" with , in a sense, "too much" market-value than guys.
In other words a guy we would rate 5/10 based on looks will never be able to find a girl that is naturally a 5/10 because make-up turns that girl into a 7/10 or 8/10 (out of his league).
http://celebritytoob.toobnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/04/Celebrities_Without_Makeup_12-537x470.jpg
Girls have easy tools to artificially increase their market value, men really do not (outside of getting rich or something extreme like that). So assuming equal distribution of "good looks" across both sexes, it will never be "fair game" unless we were to ban make-up.
That's just how it is.
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United States44398 Posts
On May 26 2014 08:18 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 07:40 The KY wrote:On May 26 2014 07:35 KwarK wrote:On May 26 2014 07:23 The KY wrote:
Not a week ago I was talking to a young lady friend of mine, she was making fun of a guy we know who is terrible with women and is a virgin in his early twenties. I was stern with her, saying that a lack of sex is enough to drive men mad. I asked her, the mass shootings that are perpetrated by young men on what seems like a bi-annual basis, do you think the vast majority of these young men were getting laid? Do you think they were virgins? Do you, if you'll forgive me being crass, think they would be killing their coworkers and schoolfriends if they had any chance of getting a girl to suck their dick?
This isn't to say that women are to blame. Not individually anyway. But here is a fact (or so it seems to me); never in human history have young men been so bombarded with sexuality and yet have so many of them had so little access to sex itself.
In my opinion it's time to address the horrendously unlevel playing field that is the heterosexual dating scene. 99 out of 100 women spend their youths riding a cock carousel, because they can. They seek men not who are providers but who can excite and titillate them. A women doesn't even necessarily have to be attractive to be incredibly, almost ludicrously selective. They will jump into bed with whatever muscle bound ball of charisma they care to, safe in the knowledge that they will face no consequences and little judgement because they will always have an uncountable numbers of sadsack boys orbiting them. Boys who have been taught to be subservient to women, who are taught by the media they consume that by being a provider they will be rewarded with female affection.
Perhaps some will say that such men feel too entitled. Well they are entitled. The traditional idea is that everyone has a rough idea of where their level is on the scale of sexual attractiveness and you match up accordingly. But this is no longer the case because it is women who feel too entitled. Men are so desperate for their attention that even the ugliest, dullest girl could be sure of getting laid week in, week out if they really desired it.
And so, in youth, women fuck an increasingly small number of men, while a sexual underclass is created, and it is populated entirely by men. And for men, lack of sex is no laughing matter. They agonise over it. Their pride shrivels. They become bitter and angry, they despise men they see as obnoxious assholes who exploit women, while the women they put on such high pedestals disappoint them again and again until they despise them as well. But ah, the future is bright for our young friends. In their mid thirties they will be the guy who women settle down with, after their looks have faded and they've taken the dicks of a couple dozen more successful men.
Meanwhile anyone who decries these consequences of unfettered feminism is vilified in ways that can only be described as shockingly venomous. Anyone who proclaims to believe that retaining a semblance of traditional masculinity in society is mocked as a virgin loser or a misogynist or a creep.
I apologise for getting passionate but I am passionate about this. I don't dislike women, I am very fond of many of them in fact, but the fact that modern western society is so biased towards women in these situations is impossible for me to ignore. Men are left to fall through the cracks and live a sexless nightmare so that the sexual revolution can continue unabated. Such men are the butt of jokes, while feminists obsess over rape, men are kicked out of universities without trial for even being accused of sexual assault, women go on pointless, self satisfied marches like Slut Walk and Take Back The Night, and decry #EverydaySexism every time someone assumes they won't be any good at fixing cars.
Some sexual revolution. Some equality.
EDIT: And of course, a lot of the responses to this horrific killing spree claim that misogyny is the cause. Ha! this is not only laughably wrong but is essentially the mindset the killer had My only point is this - 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex. The real problem here is make-up. Make-up can turn even ugly women/girls into "beauties" so there will always be a higher percentage of "hot girls" with in a sense "too much" market-value compared to guys. In other words a guy we would rate 5/10 based on looks will never be able to find a girl that is naturally a 5/10 because make-up turns that girl into a 7/10 or 8/10 (out of his league). http://celebritytoob.toobnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/04/Celebrities_Without_Makeup_12-537x470.jpgGirls have easy tools to artificially increase their market value, men really do not (outside of getting rich or something extreme like that). So assuming equal distribution of "good looks" across both sexes, it will never be "fair game" unless we were to ban make-up. That's just how it is.
Yeah.... no. Even if we accept your assumptions that the amount of sex a woman can have is based entirely on her looks and that the amount of sex a man can have is based entirely upon his wallet then a man can still dress as if he doesn't earn minimum wage, just a woman can put on makeup.
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EPT
