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On May 20 2014 06:08 VATO_Gandair wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 06:00 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2014 08:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
hope you guys had fun listening to music while streaming, because that is most likely coming to an end. Just play it via a streaming service like Spotify and I believe you would be fine. No, that does not get a person around copyright. While the streaming service has a license to play that music if you are restreaming music from that service your rebroadcast doesn't have the license. Spotify can't make ad impressions on viewers who aren't technically listening by not being connected directly.
I'll just assume you know what you are talking about and say gotta love silly regulations.
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On May 20 2014 06:16 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 06:08 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:00 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2014 08:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
hope you guys had fun listening to music while streaming, because that is most likely coming to an end. Just play it via a streaming service like Spotify and I believe you would be fine. No, that does not get a person around copyright. While the streaming service has a license to play that music if you are restreaming music from that service your rebroadcast doesn't have the license. Spotify can't make ad impressions on viewers who aren't technically listening by not being connected directly. What if YT integrated a way for a Twitch user to create a playlist within Twitch itself? Same issue?
Yup, any time you broadcast or rebroadcast music without a license through spotify, youtube videos, pandora, or any similar service you break copyright. Even if you are listening to music you legally downloaded from iTunes or a similar servies you and only you have the license to listen to it. When you broadcast or rebroadcast it out without permission it breaks copyright.
I'll just assume you know what you are talking about and say gotta love silly regulations.
I work through youtube and twitch casting/commentating League of Legends and making videos for Heathstone.
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On May 20 2014 06:43 VATO_Gandair wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 06:16 Ctone23 wrote:On May 20 2014 06:08 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:00 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2014 08:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
hope you guys had fun listening to music while streaming, because that is most likely coming to an end. Just play it via a streaming service like Spotify and I believe you would be fine. No, that does not get a person around copyright. While the streaming service has a license to play that music if you are restreaming music from that service your rebroadcast doesn't have the license. Spotify can't make ad impressions on viewers who aren't technically listening by not being connected directly. What if YT integrated a way for a Twitch user to create a playlist within Twitch itself? Same issue? Yup, any time you broadcast or rebroadcast music without a license through spotify, youtube videos, pandora, or any similar service you break copyright. Even if you are listening to music you legally downloaded from iTunes or a similar servies you and only you have the license to listen to it. When you broadcast or rebroadcast it out without permission it breaks copyright.
The joy is that there are various copyright laws around the world - that's how Dreamhack does it. Although the application of various laws and what exact rights are being bought play into it a lot (example, region locked broadcast rights - why Netflix may have something available in the US, but not the UK).
Copyright is a mess.
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On May 20 2014 06:45 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 06:43 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:16 Ctone23 wrote:On May 20 2014 06:08 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:00 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2014 08:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
hope you guys had fun listening to music while streaming, because that is most likely coming to an end. Just play it via a streaming service like Spotify and I believe you would be fine. No, that does not get a person around copyright. While the streaming service has a license to play that music if you are restreaming music from that service your rebroadcast doesn't have the license. Spotify can't make ad impressions on viewers who aren't technically listening by not being connected directly. What if YT integrated a way for a Twitch user to create a playlist within Twitch itself? Same issue? Yup, any time you broadcast or rebroadcast music without a license through spotify, youtube videos, pandora, or any similar service you break copyright. Even if you are listening to music you legally downloaded from iTunes or a similar servies you and only you have the license to listen to it. When you broadcast or rebroadcast it out without permission it breaks copyright. The joy is that there are various copyright laws around the world - that's how Dreamhack does it. Although the application of various laws and what exact rights are being bought play into it a lot (example, region locked broadcast rights - why Netflix may have something available in the US, but not the UK). Copyright is a mess.
Yea, according to his reply to me, it would seem most streamers are breaking copyright now?
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On May 20 2014 06:49 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 06:45 felisconcolori wrote:On May 20 2014 06:43 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:16 Ctone23 wrote:On May 20 2014 06:08 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:00 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2014 08:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
hope you guys had fun listening to music while streaming, because that is most likely coming to an end. Just play it via a streaming service like Spotify and I believe you would be fine. No, that does not get a person around copyright. While the streaming service has a license to play that music if you are restreaming music from that service your rebroadcast doesn't have the license. Spotify can't make ad impressions on viewers who aren't technically listening by not being connected directly. What if YT integrated a way for a Twitch user to create a playlist within Twitch itself? Same issue? Yup, any time you broadcast or rebroadcast music without a license through spotify, youtube videos, pandora, or any similar service you break copyright. Even if you are listening to music you legally downloaded from iTunes or a similar servies you and only you have the license to listen to it. When you broadcast or rebroadcast it out without permission it breaks copyright. The joy is that there are various copyright laws around the world - that's how Dreamhack does it. Although the application of various laws and what exact rights are being bought play into it a lot (example, region locked broadcast rights - why Netflix may have something available in the US, but not the UK). Copyright is a mess. Yea, according to his reply to me, it would seem most streamers are breaking copyright now?
Yes, the appeal for many about twitch is that the copyright has been going mostly unenforced. If you try to rip a video from twitch and upload it to youtube while it contains music youtube's autodetect copyright will see the music and disable you from monetizing the video. In some cases this can even lead to strikes against your youtube account. Since many streamers listen to music while playing, because hearing the LoL in-game music on repeat for hundreds of hours gets really old, they have videos highlighted on twitch and do not export them to youtube at all. It is breaking copyright but it goes massively underreported because frankly we don't want to put viewers through listening to the hearthstone music on loop for a 6hr stream. Similar goes for League of Legends, Starcraft 2, MechWarrior Online, and many other games.
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yea id just stop using twitch if this occurred
sorry esports
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Northern Ireland27262 Posts
On May 20 2014 06:58 VATO_Gandair wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 06:49 Ctone23 wrote:On May 20 2014 06:45 felisconcolori wrote:On May 20 2014 06:43 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:16 Ctone23 wrote:On May 20 2014 06:08 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:00 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2014 08:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
hope you guys had fun listening to music while streaming, because that is most likely coming to an end. Just play it via a streaming service like Spotify and I believe you would be fine. No, that does not get a person around copyright. While the streaming service has a license to play that music if you are restreaming music from that service your rebroadcast doesn't have the license. Spotify can't make ad impressions on viewers who aren't technically listening by not being connected directly. What if YT integrated a way for a Twitch user to create a playlist within Twitch itself? Same issue? Yup, any time you broadcast or rebroadcast music without a license through spotify, youtube videos, pandora, or any similar service you break copyright. Even if you are listening to music you legally downloaded from iTunes or a similar servies you and only you have the license to listen to it. When you broadcast or rebroadcast it out without permission it breaks copyright. The joy is that there are various copyright laws around the world - that's how Dreamhack does it. Although the application of various laws and what exact rights are being bought play into it a lot (example, region locked broadcast rights - why Netflix may have something available in the US, but not the UK). Copyright is a mess. Yea, according to his reply to me, it would seem most streamers are breaking copyright now? Yes, the appeal for many about twitch is that the copyright has been going mostly unenforced. If you try to rip a video from twitch and upload it to youtube while it contains music youtube's autodetect copyright will see the music and disable you from monetizing the video. In some cases this can even lead to strikes against your youtube account. Since many streamers listen to music while playing, because hearing the LoL in-game music on repeat for hundreds of hours gets really old, they have videos highlighted on twitch and do not export them to youtube at all. It is breaking copyright but it goes massively underreported because frankly we don't want to put viewers through listening to the hearthstone music on loop for a 6hr stream. Similar goes for League of Legends, Starcraft 2, MechWarrior Online, and many other games.
It's definitely an area of concern, that said I think of it more as copyright laws needing reformation of some kind, or people like GEMA being reined in over something problematic in the way Google operates.
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Mexico2170 Posts
So you people really think google would buy twitch, only to let blizzard (jsut an example) or any other companny block the streaming of a game or take it down because of "copyright infrigment"? What sense would that make? obviosly they have a plan or something. Maybe twitch didn't get copyright warnings because it wan't all that well known, now with google it will have way more attention, but still, is a videogame streaming service, if google/youtube let companies block the content what sense would it make?
The only think they might block is the music, and even that is doubtful because they aren't VODs, they are live streaming it and that makes it more difficult. Anyway you could use other music or the free music collection of youtube. Also, since google has its own streaming service (google play music) they could very well let you play any music you like as long as you use that for example.
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This could actually be great news for casters and players. I would bet that the pay for viewer would be higher on AdSense/Youtube Ads than it is on Twitch currently.
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As far as music is concerned. Would it be possible to set up a 3rd party website for independent musicians that WANT their music played in situations like this. Creating a list of artists would allow streamers to build a playlist with varied music without breaking any copyright laws.
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On May 20 2014 09:36 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
So you people really think google would buy twitch, only to let blizzard (jsut an example) or any other companny block the streaming of a game or take it down because of "copyright infrigment"? What sense would that make? obviosly they have a plan or something. Maybe twitch didn't get copyright warnings because it wan't all that well known, now with google it will have way more attention, but still, is a videogame streaming service, if google/youtube let companies block the content what sense would it make?
The only think they might block is the music, and even that is doubtful because they aren't VODs, they are live streaming it and that makes it more difficult. Anyway you could use other music or the free music collection of youtube. Also, since google has its own streaming service (google play music) they could very well let you play any music you like as long as you use that for example.
What sense does it make when 10+ minute videos are taken down because of 10s of music played in it ? Right now youtube is a complete mess. There are some companies that will flag your account for nothing and because the system favours the companies, the users can't do shit. I can't see why it will be different with Twitch.
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excellent news, twitch quality has been horrendous.
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On May 20 2014 08:11 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 06:58 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:49 Ctone23 wrote:On May 20 2014 06:45 felisconcolori wrote:On May 20 2014 06:43 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:16 Ctone23 wrote:On May 20 2014 06:08 VATO_Gandair wrote:On May 20 2014 06:00 L_Master wrote:On May 19 2014 08:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
hope you guys had fun listening to music while streaming, because that is most likely coming to an end. Just play it via a streaming service like Spotify and I believe you would be fine. No, that does not get a person around copyright. While the streaming service has a license to play that music if you are restreaming music from that service your rebroadcast doesn't have the license. Spotify can't make ad impressions on viewers who aren't technically listening by not being connected directly. What if YT integrated a way for a Twitch user to create a playlist within Twitch itself? Same issue? Yup, any time you broadcast or rebroadcast music without a license through spotify, youtube videos, pandora, or any similar service you break copyright. Even if you are listening to music you legally downloaded from iTunes or a similar servies you and only you have the license to listen to it. When you broadcast or rebroadcast it out without permission it breaks copyright. The joy is that there are various copyright laws around the world - that's how Dreamhack does it. Although the application of various laws and what exact rights are being bought play into it a lot (example, region locked broadcast rights - why Netflix may have something available in the US, but not the UK). Copyright is a mess. Yea, according to his reply to me, it would seem most streamers are breaking copyright now? Yes, the appeal for many about twitch is that the copyright has been going mostly unenforced. If you try to rip a video from twitch and upload it to youtube while it contains music youtube's autodetect copyright will see the music and disable you from monetizing the video. In some cases this can even lead to strikes against your youtube account. Since many streamers listen to music while playing, because hearing the LoL in-game music on repeat for hundreds of hours gets really old, they have videos highlighted on twitch and do not export them to youtube at all. It is breaking copyright but it goes massively underreported because frankly we don't want to put viewers through listening to the hearthstone music on loop for a 6hr stream. Similar goes for League of Legends, Starcraft 2, MechWarrior Online, and many other games. It's definitely an area of concern, that said I think of it more as copyright laws needing reformation of some kind, or people like GEMA being reined in over something problematic in the way Google operates.
Copyright reformation has been a concern for decades. Its a little bit of a bigger issue than some tech company buying out another tech company.
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On May 20 2014 11:05 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2014 09:36 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
So you people really think google would buy twitch, only to let blizzard (jsut an example) or any other companny block the streaming of a game or take it down because of "copyright infrigment"? What sense would that make? obviosly they have a plan or something. Maybe twitch didn't get copyright warnings because it wan't all that well known, now with google it will have way more attention, but still, is a videogame streaming service, if google/youtube let companies block the content what sense would it make?
The only think they might block is the music, and even that is doubtful because they aren't VODs, they are live streaming it and that makes it more difficult. Anyway you could use other music or the free music collection of youtube. Also, since google has its own streaming service (google play music) they could very well let you play any music you like as long as you use that for example. What sense does it make when 10+ minute videos are taken down because of 10s of music played in it ? Right now youtube is a complete mess. There are some companies that will flag your account for nothing and because the system favours the companies, the users can't do shit. I can't see why it will be different with Twitch.
Because it becomes a "fixed medium of expression" when you record a video. If you play music live like in a playlist you aren't breaking any copyright laws while streaming. That is the difference between youtube and a live stream. So it's really nothing to worry about. Besides I really doubt google would fully integrate twitch into youtube. it's not worht the money that would cost to go through all of that. Twitch would be a standalone service with twitch partners instantly becoming youtube partners. There are a lot of pros people in this thread aren't discussing.
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On May 20 2014 12:10 thirtyapm wrote:
excellent news, twitch quality has been horrendous.
That is the point of the buyout to improve their service but i don't think the justice department is gonna just nod their head without questions. We are talking about Google acquiring the 4th ranked website in peak Internet traffic in the U.S. Hell MLG could could step in and claim anti trust issues that could make things more difficult. I mean you also have to consider with google and their 57 billion reasons to support you in cash who would be able to ever compete with that service? This won't be easy hurdles to overcome.
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LOL to the people saying RIP twitch. They have no idea how business works
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Google is too big of a company to be ignoring copyright issues, they dont have a choice. TwitchTV has done so up to this point but even if they stay independant they will have to adjust at some point in the future.
Therefore we shouldnt get angry about the fact that they are enforcing copyright, but rather about the fact that the copyright organisations , such as GEMA for Germany, have such ridiculously high demands for their copyrights, that it is simply not feasable for a lot of internet companies to reach an agreement with them.
Besides the music issues, this really brings a lot of positives for twitch. Being part of a big organisation means funding, attention and profitability. Most likely it will only get better for all parties involved, allthough I wont count google out for messing it up.
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On May 20 2014 10:59 Sway420 wrote:
As far as music is concerned. Would it be possible to set up a 3rd party website for independent musicians that WANT their music played in situations like this. Creating a list of artists would allow streamers to build a playlist with varied music without breaking any copyright laws.
Yes it would, but it probably is not needed. There are many songs released on things like the creative commons license. Streamers just need to do their homework and make sure that there playlists contain music they they are legally allowed to stream.
The only reason twitch streamers have gotten away with it so far is because Twitch has not gotten big enough for the big record labels to care about. That will definitely change if google buys twitch.
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1 billion +
Is not close to market value of twitch, with little to no knowledge in online marketing, I can't actually be accurate but I would estimate the value of twitch to run between 220 million and 300 million, and that is being fairly generous.
However, google is taking a very proactive approach, offering well over four times the value.
This should throw up a red flag, however Google new offering anything above 500 million would do just that, and if Twitch declined intially, they would lose all hope of buying out twitch anytime in the near future, even if they offered 2 billion +
With that being said, it is clear to me why Google offered such a large ammount so quiickly, it puts the owner of twicht in a situation where it is almost impossible to decline. However, Twitch know's this, but even knowing it, if you was in their seat would you have the confidence to say, no, and push your companyto the limit, as far as he knows, youtube could offer streaming next month, and twitch may die in the next year. Google played a very powerful card, with not only the confidence that they could make twitch into huge sucess, but also the money to back it up if things get hairy.
Just know that with out being 100% certain, and having no facts or proof, just going off he/she said on Reddit* - that what I am saying is just an opinion, and should not be taken as truth, but it is fairly safe to say Google is playing the Super Monster Instant Win card, and twitch still has 40 Cards left to draw, Do you side with Google's super monster or keep going and hope the next 40 cards don't leave you empty handed, trying to revive your graveyard.
* (Yes the source of all knowledge, one day I will write an essay and tag reddit as my educational source just to see the professor flip the next day during lecture.)
Google, has yet to add streaming into their aresnal .. but if they do can twitch really compete with the powerhouse (google)
Well, with Google attempting to buy the company, I think people seeking to push advertiment may find themself adding twitch into their campaign, simply because if google want's it.. it has to be worth the money.. right?
In their shoes, I wouldn't take the money, simply by offering such a large ammount, Google has in a weird way actually helped twitch out. so I don't expect to see twitch dying in a year, but youtube and steaming will most likely offer better money for pro streamers. It's time to raise the bar twitch, ask for 10x the value or tell Google to get out, because you will never beat them, but don't join them with out putting up a really freaking good fight :D
EDIT
.. because music laws keep getting brought up.
Twitch WILL have to incorporate this, because with Google attempting to buy twitch.. like i just said.. if you didn't know about twitch last week, there is a pretty good shot you do now, and as streaming viewers increase so will the potential gain for placing a law suit, so now... Twitch has to begin to take pro active measures to stay within copyright laws.
This would of happened eventually.. but Google... is a very good catalyst :D (for lack of better words)
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On May 20 2014 16:37 Kiaph wrote:
1 billion +
Is not close to market value of twitch, with little to no knowledge in online marketing, I can't actually be accurate but I would estimate the value of twitch to run between 220 million and 300 million, and that is being fairly generous.
Just curious, as you don't really explain, why is 220 to 300 million a generous offer? I don't agree with that so just wanted to see your thoughts, thanks.
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