EPTSouth Korean Ferry Disaster - Page 9
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marigoldran
219 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32743 Posts
On April 24 2014 11:11 Scarecrow wrote: Whoah, 1 dodgy ferry and a bad subway driver doesn`t mean you can slander an entire nation. There are incompetent cowards and dodgy companies worldwide. I'm frankly surprised you would even suggest I would call my own people what I described a few bad people within the country. But you do have to think that as a repeat case like this there is a problem in the country regardless of how widespread it is worldwide. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On April 24 2014 12:55 PhoenixVoid wrote: I'm frankly surprised you would even suggest I would call my own people what I described a few bad people within the country. But you do have to think that as a repeat case like this there is a problem in the country regardless of how widespread it is worldwide. 2 cases of driver/captain error does not constitute a nationwide problem in such a populated country. I don't even know when this subway thing was, how long ago was it? Also your english made it sound like you were generalizing, sorry if you didn't mean it that way. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
I don't really feel bad for South Korea in regard this, I feel bad for the United States. We feel no shame after disasters. After a terrible school massacre, fraud by massive companies or a completely unnecessary chemical spill that poisons the water supply and destroys the environment? Nope, none at all! That is the price of our ridiculous laws, and we have no intention of changing them to prevent another disaster (if we did, we would have changed them!). No one cares, no feel ashamed, no one feels traumatized because it happens so much now in the United States. It is just standard business now. We have no pride left about our country, no drive to ever make sure a disaster never repeats itself again on our soil. Joongang Ilbo concluded with a scathing self-criticism that, “A nation’s standards and capability is tested when disaster and crisis come by. Our country’s level is a failing grade and of a third-class country.” “Koreans are very nationalistic and they take pride in the rapid development of their country. When there’s some problem or anything that reflects poorly on the collective, on the nation or Koreans on the whole, people will get upset about it,” said Daniel Pinkson, head of International Crisis Group in Seoul. http://gma.yahoo.com/ferry-disaster-left-south-korea-traumatized-shamed-162724510--abc-news-topstories.html You have to admit that something went wrong before you can fix. It actually gives me a lot of hope that Korea feels traumatized and shamed. It sounds like they will come down hard on those who did this and make sure it doesn't happen again. Korea will be a better country because of it. I just wish the US had some pride left too. | ||
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Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
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tylervoss4
182 Posts
Few points I want to mention. 1) How selfishly the three big main TV stations in Korea jumped on this incident to increase their viewership. spilling lies, asking rude/uncurteous questions to the survivors. 2) How poorly the rescue mission was managed. There was no "leader" in charge that controlled the situation. This is drastically comparable to how well chilians handled the situation when 33 miners were trapped underground. There was a lot of time wasted doing "NOTHING". The first few days were divers going in and out of the water for 10 minutes at a time. If those miners were trapped in Korea..... welll.. let's just not go there. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On April 25 2014 01:35 BronzeKnee wrote: I feel bad for the United States. We feel no shame after disasters. After a terrible school massacre, fraud by massive companies or a completely unnecessary chemical spill that poisons the water supply and destroys the environment? Nope, none at all! That is the price of our ridiculous laws, and we have no intention of changing them to prevent another disaster (if we did, we would have changed them!). No one cares, no feel ashamed, no one feels traumatized because it happens so much now in the United States. It is just standard business now. We have no pride left about our country, no drive to ever make sure a disaster never repeats itself again on our soil. . This isn't the thread to bash your own county with events totally unrelated. For what it's worth, my deepest sympathies go out to the people in S. Korea, I wish I had more to say but I get a little choked up even thinking about it. | ||
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Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
On April 21 2014 16:21 dravernor wrote: This whole thing makes me so sad.  Same :'( | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On April 25 2014 01:35 BronzeKnee wrote: To me, what is really surprising about this whole thing is the shame South Korea feels. I don't really feel bad for South Korea in regard this, I feel bad for the United States. We feel no shame after disasters. After a terrible school massacre, fraud by massive companies or a completely unnecessary chemical spill that poisons the water supply and destroys the environment? Nope, none at all! ...You have to admit that something went wrong before you can fix. It actually gives me a lot of hope that Korea feels traumatized and shamed. It sounds like they will come down hard on those who did this and make sure it doesn't happen again. Korea will be a better country because of it. I just wish the US had some pride left too. But it doesn't even make sense for an entire country to feel shame, I'm sorry to say but nationalism in general is kind of stupid. The whole notion of considering the entire population of the United States (or any other country) as blameworthy somehow whenever one accident occurs is *completely* insane. No nation is some sort of hive mind that is responsible for every member's actions. Maybe you used the wrong word and you meant 'sad' or 'traumatized', but then of course in both cases it would be plain wrong as is clearly demonstrated by the massive American response to Sandy Hook, the Boston Marathon bombings, or the Deepwater Horizon oil spill amongst many other tragedies/disasters. Beyond this, there are always going to be events that you simply can not prevent no matter how well regulated your country is, there are no laws so strong that they play the role of some omnipotent, omniscient God (and neither would anyone *want* them as it would imply a police state of the likes we have never seen before). So the argument isn't so binary as you think even if you accept the premise that feeling shameful is a rational response. But lastly shame isn't even a necessary precursor to making meaningful change. Why do you have to flagrantly describe to the world how shameful and horrified you are for change to happen? Its completely unnecessary. People can easily have a measured emotional response and still make serious changes. Also feeling shame doesn't even necessarily equate to action, if you have a very powerful group that through monetary donations tends to drown out independent voices (and through lobbying in the government), then you could simply be overpowered by the people in power. I'm pretty sure Occupy Wall street was a pretty significant response, and they probably tried to do something, but if you have no clear message or action plan (nay, not even *leaders* for your movement) and you're fighting against entrenched power then its probably not going to do a whole lot. Besides which those are all fairly complex issues as the US is different in many ways from other country, whether you're talking about gun control or economic change. To just simplify it all to a simple issue of shame is really not justified or reasonable to me, they're pretty multifaceted issues you're talking about, not just the sinking of a ferry | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On April 25 2014 07:57 radscorpion9 wrote: But it doesn't even make sense for an entire country to feel shame, I'm sorry to say but nationalism in general is kind of stupid. The whole notion of considering the entire population of the United States (or any other country) as blameworthy somehow whenever one accident occurs is *completely* insane. No nation is some sort of hive mind that is responsible for every member's actions. Maybe you used the wrong word and you meant 'sad' or 'traumatized', but then of course in both cases it would be plain wrong as is clearly demonstrated by the massive American response to Sandy Hook, the Boston Marathon bombings, or the Deepwater Horizon oil spill amongst many other tragedies/disasters. Beyond this, there are always going to be events that you simply can not prevent no matter how well regulated your country is, there are no laws so strong that they play the role of some omnipotent, omniscient God (and neither would anyone *want* them as it would imply a police state of the likes we have never seen before). So the argument isn't so binary as you think even if you accept the premise that feeling shameful is a rational response. But lastly shame isn't even a necessary precursor to making meaningful change. Why do you have to flagrantly describe to the world how shameful and horrified you are for change to happen? Its completely unnecessary. People can easily have a measured emotional response and still make serious changes. Also feeling shame doesn't even necessarily equate to action, if you have a very powerful group that through monetary donations tends to drown out independent voices (and through lobbying in the government), then you could simply be overpowered by the people in power. I'm pretty sure Occupy Wall street was a pretty significant response, and they probably tried to do something, but if you have no clear message or action plan (nay, not even *leaders* for your movement) and you're fighting against entrenched power then its probably not going to do a whole lot. Besides which those are all fairly complex issues as the US is different in many ways from other country, whether you're talking about gun control or economic change. To just simplify it all to a simple issue of shame is really not justified or reasonable to me, they're pretty multifaceted issues you're talking about, not just the sinking of a ferry its quiet hard to explain nationalism, may i ask if you have any pride for your country? i ask because somewhere so multicultural like USA, sense of national pride is really different. one ethnicity and different nation, mix of many ethnicity, same nation same ethnicity, etc. i'm not even technically a korean anymore but im still quiet nationalistic, not as much someone else, but i understand where it comes from. i'm quiet outspoken on my opinions but a story like this i've been holding my tongue amongst my friends because it feels shameful and can only be negative about it, not of the event but how it was handled from the ship's crew to government's response to help. i only hope they learn from this and set up better regulations, though i dont think thats the issue, its the execution and mindset. by korean maritime law its a crime for a captain to abandon ship without caring for passengers, clearly this captain had no fucking idea. though there are regulations and laws, they're not executed well. korea can build ships but it seems they dont know how to use it properly. crew told passengers to stay where they are while they evacuated, this is fucking mind boggling, including the people that listened to the crew despite not making sense. early calls of help came from passengers on their cell, not the ship. something is seriously fucked up. on a side note, the media is chewing up the parent company's CEO, supposedly the ceo helped create a church, has 20,000 members and media is not accusing, but talk of possibility of money laundering and also the captain of the ship is linked to this church. media is also linking a relationship between the ceo and one of past worst korean president, "opinionizing" how the ceo got his wealth, probably due to the connection with this said ex-president. showing off the company's resort in the country side saying how big and grand it is. media is on witch hunt frenzy, puts TLers vs naniwa to shame. who knows, maybe there really is something shady going on, like if the captain became captain thanks to some people. (CEO now under investigation for many, many things) | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
heartbreaking to see photos of victims on facebook with their stories. </3 | ||
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jellyjello
Korea (South)664 Posts
On April 25 2014 01:35 BronzeKnee wrote: To me, what is really surprising about this whole thing is the shame South Korea feels. I don't really feel bad for South Korea in regard this, I feel bad for the United States. We feel no shame after disasters. After a terrible school massacre, fraud by massive companies or a completely unnecessary chemical spill that poisons the water supply and destroys the environment? Nope, none at all! That is the price of our ridiculous laws, and we have no intention of changing them to prevent another disaster (if we did, we would have changed them!). No one cares, no feel ashamed, no one feels traumatized because it happens so much now in the United States. It is just standard business now. We have no pride left about our country, no drive to ever make sure a disaster never repeats itself again on our soil. http://gma.yahoo.com/ferry-disaster-left-south-korea-traumatized-shamed-162724510--abc-news-topstories.html You have to admit that something went wrong before you can fix. It actually gives me a lot of hope that Korea feels traumatized and shamed. It sounds like they will come down hard on those who did this and make sure it doesn't happen again. Korea will be a better country because of it. I just wish the US had some pride left too. I see how you might feel that way, but you've got the completely wrong idea about this. The Koreans feel this way not because something bad happened, but because they are so utterly unprepared for a situation like this. They've had bridges and buildings collapsed, an airplane crashed, and now a boat capsized, and what is their response to each situation? It is the same old story. That's why they feel the way they do now. At least in the US, when bad things happen, the response is there in a coordinated and facilitated manner. And when it gets messed up, people are held responsible for it. It's not the same story here in Korea. | ||
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NNLBboy
United States67 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18524 Posts
On April 25 2014 08:49 jinorazi wrote: its quiet hard to explain nationalism, may i ask if you have any pride for your country? i ask because somewhere so multicultural like USA, sense of national pride is really different. one ethnicity and different nation, mix of many ethnicity, same nation same ethnicity, etc. i'm not even technically a korean anymore but im still quiet nationalistic, not as much someone else, but i understand where it comes from. i'm quiet outspoken on my opinions but a story like this i've been holding my tongue amongst my friends because it feels shameful and can only be negative about it, not of the event but how it was handled from the ship's crew to government's response to help. i only hope they learn from this and set up better regulations, though i dont think thats the issue, its the execution and mindset. by korean maritime law its a crime for a captain to abandon ship without caring for passengers, clearly this captain had no fucking idea. though there are regulations and laws, they're not executed well. korea can build ships but it seems they dont know how to use it properly. crew told passengers to stay where they are while they evacuated, this is fucking mind boggling, including the people that listened to the crew despite not making sense. early calls of help came from passengers on their cell, not the ship. something is seriously fucked up. on a side note, the media is chewing up the parent company's CEO, supposedly the ceo helped create a church, has 20,000 members and media is not accusing, but talk of possibility of money laundering and also the captain of the ship is linked to this church. media is also linking a relationship between the ceo and one of past worst korean president, "opinionizing" how the ceo got his wealth, probably due to the connection with this said ex-president. showing off the company's resort in the country side saying how big and grand it is. media is on witch hunt frenzy, puts TLers vs naniwa to shame. who knows, maybe there really is something shady going on, like if the captain became captain thanks to some people. (CEO now under investigation for many, many things) Regarding the ship: I have read that it is a Japanese built ship but the company modified it to.make it a lot heavier. I think thats the shadiest part of it all. Why change a perfectly fine built ship in the first place? | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/25/world/asia/south-korea-ship-sinking/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 | ||
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
On April 25 2014 15:29 sharkie wrote: Regarding the ship: I have read that it is a Japanese built ship but the company modified it to.make it a lot heavier. I think thats the shadiest part of it all. Why change a perfectly fine built ship in the first place? the company literally gave zero f**k about passenger safety. like literally. | ||
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F1rstAssau1t
1341 Posts
On April 26 2014 07:59 DwD wrote: Just read from CNN news that a diver found 48 dead girls in the same cabin all wearing life vests.. Holy shit how fucking terrible it must've been for them. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/25/world/asia/south-korea-ship-sinking/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Holy fuck, god plz no. This will make me cry so hard, dont wanna even think how their families will feel. This is just so heartbraking. | ||
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riyanme
Philippines940 Posts
On April 26 2014 07:59 DwD wrote: Just read from CNN news that a diver found 48 dead girls in the same cabin all wearing life vests.. Holy shit how fucking terrible it must've been for them. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/25/world/asia/south-korea-ship-sinking/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 48 high school girls followed the captains orders.... wore the life jacket and stayed on the same cabin.... i couldn't even imagine... so sad.... T_T this alone, boils my blood.... want me to "dispose" the captain... | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Bad. Very, very bad. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On April 26 2014 07:59 DwD wrote: Just read from CNN news that a diver found 48 dead girls in the same cabin all wearing life vests.. Holy shit how fucking terrible it must've been for them. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/25/world/asia/south-korea-ship-sinking/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 fuck, this is so fucking heartbreaking. i have a friend of a cousin (i'm a korean) who died on that fucking ferry, and it just shudders me to think how terrible it must have been. luckily my cousin wasn't on board, but still... those people were somebody's child, father, mother, wife or husband... ffs. | ||
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