1998 August 16th. The famous Koshien tournament. The Koshien tournament is Japan's highschool baseball tournament, in which one school becomes champion from a field of 4000+. Getting there in the first place is tough. Winning a game is a memory you pass down to your grandchildren. Winning the whole thing is a highschool athlete's dream come true.
Championship game. The finals. Bottom of the 15th. 2-2 Tie game. Toyota Outani High is batting. Bases full, no outs. The count is 2 strikes, 1 ball.
The pitcher is Fujita Shuhei, of ace of Ube Industrial Highschool. He has pitched all 15 innings. He enters his set position.
The catcher notices the second base runner stealing the pitching sign, so he sends another signal to Fujita. Fujita hesitates for one second.
The home plate ump's arms go up - it's a balk. the call is correct and undisputable. The 3rd base runner comes home. It's a walk-off balk in the bottom of the 15th innning of the final game of the biggest high school baseball tournament in the world.
After three hours, 52 minutes and 15 innings, after 210 pitches, Fujita finally shows tears.
Without a single sign of dissent, Fujita, only 17 years of age, jogs to home plate to line up for the end-game ritual.
The opponent's ace has a few words of condolence for Fujita. Ube Industrial High players start collecting the dirt of the Koshien mound, as tradition, because they will never get here again.
Fujita Shuhei would go on to play for Fukuoka University. As a Junior, he injures his arm, ending his career. He retires from baseball with a 2-1 college win-loss record.
In an interview later, Fujita said that he would simply introduce himself to people as "the guy who balked" and they would know who he was.
On August 22 2006 09:03 the living legend wrote: i thought a highschool athlete's dream was just like, 3 cheerleaders at once, or somethin. koreans sure are different. or japanese. whatever they are.
i know you were making a joke, but i don't think you realize just how much these high school athletes want a championship in a tournament like this... i'm sure the vast majority of the top high school atheletes would rather win that sort of tournament than have sex with 3 cheerleaders at once, i mean they usually get enough ass anyway
On August 22 2006 09:13 rpf289 wrote: wtf is a balk
A balk is an illegal pitching motion.
Basically a pitcher is supposed to be honest with the batter and not fake a pitch or do anything to disrupt the timing of the batter. There are a lot of strict rules about what is a balk and what is not a balk.
The penalty of a balk is that all runners advance one base.
On August 22 2006 09:03 the living legend wrote: i thought a highschool athlete's dream was just like, 3 cheerleaders at once, or somethin. koreans sure are different. or japanese. whatever they are.
i know you were making a joke, but i don't think you realize just how much these high school athletes want a championship in a tournament like this... i'm sure the vast majority of the top high school atheletes would rather win that sort of tournament than have sex with 3 cheerleaders at once, i mean they usually get enough ass anyway
This is hands down the most important amateur sporting event in all of japan. I honestly think people care more about this than even the olympics.
Their skill level is nowhere near pro level, but the grind that they show is unparalleled. Japanese probaseball is dogshit compared to this.
On August 22 2006 09:12 Mynock wrote: In the same year there was a bigger star rising tho, was there not? In form of Matsuzaka Daisuke...
hmm, yea, wikipedia says that matsuzaka's senior year was in 1998, when he threw 250 pitches in a 17 inning game, then followed it up with a no-hitter in the finals... hm, conflicting results. I wonder if the above video is from the Senbatsu tournament? (there's one in the spring as well)
By the way I have to make the point that these pitches throwing excess of 200 pitches, while great drama, is absolutely idiotic. There's a reason why the MLB teams are so careful with thier pitchers' arms. The japanese have traditionally had this mentality of "spirit over body", (commonly phrased as Kiai, or Koujyou, etc) and the coaches push this onto the players as well. Case in point: the pitcher in the above video blows out his arms and ends his career a few years later.
I have a friend who played in the farm system for a pro baseball team in japan 5 or so years ago. They pitched him way too much, way too often, way too long. As a result he tore a ligament in his shoulder, and his dreams were dashed away. This kind of "heroics" that the japanese love, has caused so many career ending injuries, it is absurd.
Great drama, at the price of players' careers It's understandable why they do this. They want to win this thing so badly, they'll really do whatever it takes to pull it off. I'm sure many of these players don't give a damn about their future career or whatnot as long as they can win this. But this die hard sentiment should not, and cannot be held by managers, coaches, and staff members. They need to be the ones putting the throttle on their players, not worsening the situation.
On August 22 2006 09:50 Illuvatar wrote: so what? he lost, well he won't die of it, seriously sometimes i really wonder if there aren't more important things in live...
Have you ever in your life wanted to accomplish something so badly, that you were willing to suffer through whatever it took to get to that point? Wouldnt you feel this kind of deep anguish, if you had come so far, so close, yet couldnt make the final step? Or have you half-assedly and nonchalantly gone through everything in your life thus far.
I guess you just dont get it. Apathy is bliss. No true joy but no true pain either.
Have you ever in your life wanted to accomplish something so badly, that you were willing to suffer through whatever it took to get to that point? Wouldnt you feel this kind of deep anguish, if you had come so far, so close, yet couldnt make the final step? Or have you half-assedly and nonchalantly gone through everything in your life thus far.
I guess you just dont get it. Apathy is bliss. No true joy but no true pain either.
What, can you actually imagine to how many people on the world this happens, that they can't take the final step. He doesn't deserve special empathy and no it's not very sad, very sad is when someone dies of hunger although he struggles all his life for food and he suffers through whatever it took to get food, but still he couldn't get any.
Yes, 200 pitches is insane, but the amount of damage to a pitcher depends a lot on the way they pitch. In the old days people might get away with throwing 150+ pitches, but there is no way anyone can do that in the AL now and not blow out something. The mound is different, and the game is much more pressurized demanding accurate mechanics that some pitchers just do not have.
btw, this spirit over body thing is really annoying in animes. So one guy goes like "waah this is suicidal technique" and then does it 100 times with no problem. -_-;;
Have you ever in your life wanted to accomplish something so badly, that you were willing to suffer through whatever it took to get to that point? Wouldnt you feel this kind of deep anguish, if you had come so far, so close, yet couldnt make the final step? Or have you half-assedly and nonchalantly gone through everything in your life thus far.
I guess you just dont get it. Apathy is bliss. No true joy but no true pain either.
What, can you actually imagine to how many people on the world this happens, that they can't take the final step. He doesn't deserve special empathy and no it's not very sad, very sad is when someone dies of hunger although he struggles all his life for food and he suffers through whatever it took to get food, but still he couldn't get any.
That's not sad. It's pathetic. But essentially u are refering the same thing as haji, both men wanted some thing so bad but couldn't get it, they just after 2 thing on completely different scale. One is neccesity, another is his own fufillment of self worth. There is no reason to discredit the baseballer , he doesn't need to struggle for food, he struggles for something greater. You can do nothing but applaude for his effort because he tries to do something in his life. I guess you can't understand that notion, thats fine. Some people prefer to enjoy their life, some find enjoyment in persuing a goal.
Have you ever in your life wanted to accomplish something so badly, that you were willing to suffer through whatever it took to get to that point? Wouldnt you feel this kind of deep anguish, if you had come so far, so close, yet couldnt make the final step? Or have you half-assedly and nonchalantly gone through everything in your life thus far.
I guess you just dont get it. Apathy is bliss. No true joy but no true pain either.
What, can you actually imagine to how many people on the world this happens, that they can't take the final step. He doesn't deserve special empathy and no it's not very sad, very sad is when someone dies of hunger although he struggles all his life for food and he suffers through whatever it took to get food, but still he couldn't get any.
eh, the guy worked so hard for it, and didn't get it. that is sad. hunger is sad too, but this is also sad.
Have you ever in your life wanted to accomplish something so badly, that you were willing to suffer through whatever it took to get to that point? Wouldnt you feel this kind of deep anguish, if you had come so far, so close, yet couldnt make the final step? Or have you half-assedly and nonchalantly gone through everything in your life thus far.
I guess you just dont get it. Apathy is bliss. No true joy but no true pain either.
What, can you actually imagine to how many people on the world this happens, that they can't take the final step. He doesn't deserve special empathy and no it's not very sad, very sad is when someone dies of hunger although he struggles all his life for food and he suffers through whatever it took to get food, but still he couldn't get any.
Wow, you are an asshole. I wonder if you have any friends. They come to you sad and say they lost the baseball championship because they made a small mistake and you say "THERE ARE PEOPLE STARVING. STFU." Yea right.
From a scientific point of view, the mind over body thing is highly inefficient lol. I think if you are talent with the all the right assets, you probably can slack off and be mid core, but if you manage to put your mind over ur body then you can become great.
Asian athelets are naturally disadvantaged so it is very appriopriate for them to develope this mentality :/
That's not sad. It's pathetic. But essentially u are refering the same thing as haji, both men wanted some thing so bad but couldn't get it, they just after 2 thing on completely different scale. One is neccesity, another is his own fufillment of self worth. There is no reason to discredit the baseballer , he doesn't need to struggle for food, he struggles for something greater. You can do nothing but applaude for his effort because he tries to do something in his life. I guess you can't understand that notion, thats fine. Some people prefer to enjoy their life, some find enjoyment in persuing a goal.
I do understand that he struggles for something greater, but the whole thing is a bit random because people lose all the time, I mean the others were also sad because they lost, and other millions of people are also sad when they lose, and well for me it's not something that deserves my special sadness attention.
Wow, you are an asshole. I wonder if you have any friends. They come to you sad and say they lost the baseball championship because they made a small mistake and you say "THERE ARE PEOPLE STARVING. STFU." Yea right.
My friends don't play baseball. And they can accept other opinions without insulting someone.
Yeah, you are right. People lose all the time, we get use to it. The point people try to make is that This guy didn't deserve to lose because of one sec of losing concentration especially after he has come so far and endured so long and go out of his career after that. Millions of other people can't do that, they half - ass try to do some thing, gets owned and obviously don't give too much thoughts about it because they didn't put so much effort like this kid.
Illuvatar, seriously, get a clue. Why are you still arguing? Your reasoning of "it doesn't deserve my attention coz there are so many sad things outside of this" is just silly. Following that logic nothing at all deserves to be called sad coz there's a million other things you could be sad about. That's retarded. You've been told so by how many people in this thread by now?
You look back on the 210 pitches that he threw that day, not the one balk. The pity we are inclined to feel is trumped by the admiration we have for his effort. It's that simple.
On August 22 2006 11:03 Mynock wrote: Illuvatar, seriously, get a clue. Why are you still arguing? Your reasoning of "it doesn't deserve my attention coz there are so many sad things outside of this" is just silly. Following that logic nothing at all deserves to be called sad coz there's a million other things you could be sad about. That's retarded. You've been told so by how many people in this thread by now?
Just give up already, FFS.
-Mynock
What? I just made my point, I have no interest in persuading you or any other person. I just said that people losing doesn't make me sad, it's a part of sport and if you want to be a sportsman you have to lose a lot and I clearly stated before that it makes me sad seeing people dying, so please don't write about what I said without exactly knowing what I said. So to end this, I am a bit more reasonable at the moment so I accept that this is more tragic than the normal losing, and I feel a bit sad when I listen to the music and the video so well it did deserve special attention, but as I'm generally not a great friend of sports I'm not really willing to accept anything that comes out of this topic, especially not the great emotions, that might be a reason for my for you rather ignorant posts, but I guess I get the point, somehow.
why post in a topic about losing in sports at all then, when you are only here to disagree and "not accept" anything anyone says in it, isn't that just blatant trolling
Seriously, the fact that Mynock and I are agreeing on something that pertains to Japan should tell you something -___-;;
We are pretty much polar opposites in terms of taste, and yet we're in accord of each other in this instance.
(seriously, I dont think Mynock and I have ever been on the same page for anything pertaining to Japan, ever -- in terms of opinions. I think we agree on facts, obviously)
On August 22 2006 11:46 thedeadhaji wrote: Seriously, the fact that Mynock and I are agreeing on something that pertains to Japan should tell you something -___-;;
Haha! Hey, I liked the katana vs machinegun video. Saw the katana vs gun a long time ago, machinegun one was even nicer :o
On August 22 2006 11:46 thedeadhaji wrote: Seriously, the fact that Mynock and I are agreeing on something that pertains to Japan should tell you something -___-;;
Haha! Hey, I liked the katana vs machinegun video. Saw the katana vs gun a long time ago, machinegun one was even nicer :o
On August 22 2006 09:50 Illuvatar wrote: so what? he lost, well he won't die of it, seriously sometimes i really wonder if there aren't more important things in life...
Watch his left hand, on the shot from behind the pitcher. You'll see him take the ball, move it from behind his back to his side, en route to his glove in front of him. However, he will pull this back behind himself again. This is the balk that the ump caught. (i think)
Just want to clear a few things that came up in this thread.
1. There are only three tournaments that matter in Japanese highschool baseball. Spring Koshien, Summer Koshien, and the National Tournament in the fall.
Of these, Spring Koshien is the most important (Japanese students graduate after the Spring)
So yeah, Daisuke's crazy Koshien happened in the same year as this clip. No conflict.
2. Baseball is still the number 1 sport in Japan. Soccer is sort of catching up, especially amongst the younger crowd, but baseball is the national sport of Japan without a doubt.
3. haji's description of the balk is accurate. The pitching motion has a series of positions. The problem is the pitcher was about to enter a position, then stopped and returned to his previous stance. Balk.
The summer tournament is THE Koushien (it's going on right now and I see glimpses of it on TV) The spring tournament is called the Senbatsu (the select) Taikai (tournament).
The fall one is totally irrelevant, if i understand correctly.
Acutally the last Taikai the seniors play in is the Summer Koushien (in most cases), b/c the seniors all retire after the summer and start cranking for college exams. The fall tournamnet (again, irrelevant) and the spring tournaments are contested largely of 1st and 2nd year HS students.
i heard one time during the Spring Koshien the league was infiltrated by a team that schemed to take down the organizers, but one righteous player with a great spirit who wasn't very talented but wouldn't give up saved the day... because THAT IS HIS WAY OF THE NINJA
I just finished watching the summer tournament yesterday. The games were unbelievable, and the quality of play approached the proffessional game. On Sunday, both teams battled to 1-1 after fifteen innings. The game was called, and then replayed on Monday, where a team from Tokyo defeated the defending champions. The Tokyo pitcher pitched 24 innings in two days.
In Japan, this tournament is bigger than proffessional baseball. Every high school has a shot at representing its prefecture in the final tournement, and the single elimination qualification games are the only meaningful games they play all year. To put it in perspective, the winning team had to win 17 games in a row to win the national championship.
When you lose, you always see a lot of tears. That is because the third year players have to retire and study for the university entrance exams after the tournament. The tears are the same whether they lose in their first game or the seventeenth.
To pitch like that and then balk at the last instance... heart breaking.
On August 22 2006 11:27 Illuvatar wrote:I just said that people losing doesn't make me sad, it's a part of sport and if you want to be a sportsman you have to lose a lot
dying is a part of life and everyone who takes part in life has to die, so why is that sad?
On August 22 2006 15:44 Manifesto7 wrote: When you lose, you always see a lot of tears. That is because the third year players have to retire and study for the university entrance exams after the tournament. The tears are the same whether they lose in their first game or the seventeenth.
To pitch like that and then balk at the last instance... heart breaking.
I know... how can some people be so cold hearted to a young kids failure? I mean.. not failure but defeat.
If anyone saw Slam Dunk Mangas.. this reminded me of it lol~ But what hurts more is what the kid said after he was forced into retirement without making a name for himself - The Kid who Balked... OWCHS.
On August 22 2006 11:27 Illuvatar wrote:I just said that people losing doesn't make me sad, it's a part of sport and if you want to be a sportsman you have to lose a lot
dying is a part of life and everyone who takes part in life has to die, so why is that sad?
there's difference between chosing a way and being born.
Jongman, go read Touch, or H2 (about HS baseball in japan). Actually read Touch, since it's the better of the two (by the same author). It's old as hell compared to today's style, but it's definitely on par with Slam Dunk in terms of quality.
If you cant get a hold of it, plz PM me. I'll see what I can do for you.
On August 22 2006 14:56 Hot_Bid wrote: i heard one time during the Spring Koshien the league was infiltrated by a team that schemed to take down the organizers, but one righteous player with a great spirit who wasn't very talented but wouldn't give up saved the day... because THAT IS HIS WAY OF THE NINJA
Bases loaded is easier for the defense than runners on 1st and 3rd i believe. I'd want to take a look at the box score to see if they didnt intentionally load the bases after like, 1st and 3rd, since that clip does show an intentional walk.
Plus, bases loaded puts pressure on the hitter more than if it was no outs runner on 3rd (which is a damn beeyotch to defend)
Yea, more than likely, they would have lost. But you want to get defeated by your opponent's performance, not your own mistake =(.
When the giants win a big series, their fans all jump off a famous bridge to celebrate. It is crazy dangerous and you get arrested, but even after some deaths people still do it.
The crazy thing about fans is that even if their team is losing 16-0, they still cheer non-stop throughout the game. Nobody leaves, and they all stick around to listen to the interview afterwards.
The fact that they would let a high school student throw 210 pitches is shameful. It's no wonder he injured his arm early in his career if this isn't considered completely outlandish conduct in Japan.
Championship game. The finals. Bottom of the 15th. 2-2 Tie game. Toyota Outani High is batting. Bases full, no outs. The count is 2 strikes, 1 ball.
I found out that this was one of the games in the second round, not the finals. (2nd round of the final bracket, i guess, since it was the 2nd round after all the prefecture representatives were determined)
EPT
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that hurt me ... for some reason. Those are heavy words my friend... heavy words T_T
