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On June 30 2016 17:23 Diabolique wrote: I still don't get it, why everyone cares about some opposition party break-up, when the main topic should be BREXIT and the new PM. So this Michael Gove is a candidate ... saying that the famous football player Boris the dream would probably not be capable to create a team and lead the negotiations ... Who is he? Is he a good guy? Popular guy? Not a stupid guy?
Yes, that is what I meant, when I asked about Gove. Is he a better guy than Boris the dream?
Make up your mind..
Fair point really. How many "experts" predicted the GFC?
Again with that logic. The GFC, the beacon of expert naysayers.
Next time you break a bone just pop it back in yourself, dont go to an expert like you know, a doctor. Hes just looking to make some money.
Next time your car breaks down, dont take it to a mechanic. Just like twist some pipes around. Hes just going to take your money.
The point isnt that the elites dont have something to answer for. They absolutely do. But blaming the EU for the failures of Britains elite was stupid and still is stupid.
Gove is such a backstabber. First he betrays his friend Cameron by campaigning for leave and now he stabs Johnson in the back. And here I thought Johnson was the opportunist but Gove played him like a fiddle.
On June 30 2016 20:11 RvB wrote: Gove is such a backstabber. First he betrays his friend Cameron by campaigning for leave and now he stabs Johnson in the back. And here I thought Johnson was the opportunist but Gove played him like a fiddle.
I remember when he went ham after black adder making fun of the first world war. Dude got owned by Sir Tony Robinson.
On June 30 2016 17:23 Diabolique wrote: I still don't get it, why everyone cares about some opposition party break-up, when the main topic should be BREXIT and the new PM. So this Michael Gove is a candidate ... saying that the famous football player Boris the dream would probably not be capable to create a team and lead the negotiations ... Who is he? Is he a good guy? Popular guy? Not a stupid guy?
Yes, that is what I meant, when I asked about Gove. Is he a better guy than Boris the dream?
The point isnt that the elites dont have something to answer for. They absolutely do. But blaming the EU for the failures of Britains elite was stupid and still is stupid.
Also. Alot of experts did predict the GFC>
But lol at Boris.. rekt by the Govenaa.
Very few experts predicted the GFC, thats the point but there are more than enough examples of experts getting it wrong to confirm what Gove is saying. Here's one from February, Goldman Sachs claims gold is overbought, sets a target for $1100 within 3 months.Price right now is $1315. http://fortune.com/2016/02/16/goldman-sachs-sell-gold/
That was gold’s best one-week gain since the 2008 financial crisis.
But its time to sell the commodity, wrote a group of Goldman Sachs analysts lead by Global Head of Commodities Jeffrey Currie in a Tuesday note.
“We maintain our view of rising U.S. rates and hence lower gold prices, with a 3-month target of $1,100 per once and 12-month target of $1,000 per ounce,” they wrote.
Of course I'm sure you realise that they could have been talking gold down whilst being long gold themselves, trying to get it cheaper but that just proves my point further.The "experts" do not have the common mans interest at heart.
On June 30 2016 17:23 Diabolique wrote: I still don't get it, why everyone cares about some opposition party break-up, when the main topic should be BREXIT and the new PM. So this Michael Gove is a candidate ... saying that the famous football player Boris the dream would probably not be capable to create a team and lead the negotiations ... Who is he? Is he a good guy? Popular guy? Not a stupid guy?
Yes, that is what I meant, when I asked about Gove. Is he a better guy than Boris the dream?
Fair point really. How many "experts" predicted the GFC? Heck even the economic "experts" on twitter have gone quiet now the FTSE is above the level it was before the vote....
FTSE 250 (the one that is the more accurate representation of UK economy) is 1300 points below the level it was before the vote.
On June 30 2016 17:23 Diabolique wrote: I still don't get it, why everyone cares about some opposition party break-up, when the main topic should be BREXIT and the new PM. So this Michael Gove is a candidate ... saying that the famous football player Boris the dream would probably not be capable to create a team and lead the negotiations ... Who is he? Is he a good guy? Popular guy? Not a stupid guy?
Yes, that is what I meant, when I asked about Gove. Is he a better guy than Boris the dream?
Fair point really. How many "experts" predicted the GFC? Heck even the economic "experts" on twitter have gone quiet now the FTSE is above the level it was before the vote....
FTSE 250 (the one that is the more accurate representation of UK economy) is 1300 points below the level it was before the vote.
The currency is still down too.
And the Brexit hasn't even happened yet.
It's up what, 8% off the lows? and the pound was overvalued! You cannot run a 7% current account deficit and expect a strong currency.
On June 30 2016 20:30 RvB wrote: You are a funny guy. You are saying experts shouldnt be listened to and yet you are qualified to call the pound overvalued.
I am saying you cannot run a current account deficit of 7% of GDP and not expect repercussions from that. Hardly a future prediction.
The only two things that have been keeping the UK economy growing the past 5 years have been uncontrolled immigration leading to an increase in demand for goods & services (and a record goods trade deficit) and a housing bubble, especially in London.It's not hard to see why brexit would damage this economic "recovery" but it's all just an unsustainable bubble anyway.The youth may find it a blessing that housing is affordable for the first time in 20 years because the way it is now an entire generation is priced out.
Yes and experts are saying leaving a single market and the uncertainty caused by leaving the EU is a negative for the economy and later growth potential. They're not doing anything different than you are.
You're also literally making a prediction a paragraph later by saying that it is an unsustainable bubble and that housing will be affordable in 20 years.
Not to mention that a lot of experts who think Brexit is a good thing only think it's good in the long term if certain requirements are met. I.E. classical liberals think the UK should unilaterally abolish all tariffs.
On June 30 2016 21:22 Kickboxer wrote: The guy seems genuinely revolting. A Machiavellian demagogue and all-around nasty person.
He is principled, polite and honest. Unfortunately its clear Boris only backed brexit to be PM and was backtracking on that, Gove felt he had to stand and knife Boris because he really believes that Brexit is the best thing for this country.
That is what I thought as well. Yet he obviously used someone to achieve his own objective. He also clearly gave Johnson the impression he would support him. Not to mention if he really didn't want to become pm he could've just withdrawn support for Johnson and go support someone else. There were plenty of alternatives.
Saying he doesn't want the job sounds like how all roman emperors initially 'refused' the job and only took it because the people insisted.
On June 30 2016 21:46 RvB wrote: That is what I thought as well. Yet he obviously used someone to achieve his own objective. He also clearly gave Johnson the impression he would support him. Not to mention if he really didn't want to become pm he could've just withdrawn support for Johnson and go support someone else. There were plenty of alternatives.
Saying he doesn't want the job sounds like how all roman emperors initially 'refused' the job and only took it because the people insisted.
The only other person who is a brexiteer who is actually running to win is Andrea Leadsom and I would say Gove is senior to her, more capable and can rally more support. Liam Fox is just running to try grab a cabinet role from a front runner by backing them later. So really after getting rid of Boris he had no choice but to run himself.
That still doesn't change the fact that he campaigned with Johnson. He must have already known that Johnson was no real Brexiteer by then (if this is true of course). So apparently it's fine if he is a liar as long as he helps. The leave campaign has also been full of lies and backtracking (more than the remainers who used some fearmongering as well)
A remainer becoming pm with someone like Gove leading the exit negotiations or something similar would have been an option as well. There are alternatives to him becoming pm.
Whether he truely believes in Brexit I don't know but he has certainly not been honest and polite.
(Reuters) - Former London mayor Boris Johnson, runaway bookmakers' favourite to become Britain's prime minister, abruptly pulled out of the race on Thursday in a shock announcement less than a week after leading the campaign to pull the country out of the EU.
Johnson's announcement, to audible gasps from a roomful of journalists and supporters, was the biggest political surprise since Prime Minister David Cameron quit on Friday, the morning after losing the referendum on British membership in the bloc.
Johnson's withdrawal makes Theresa May, the interior minister who backed remaining in the EU, the new favourite to succeed Cameron.
She announced her own candidacy earlier on Thursday, promising to deliver the EU withdrawal voters had demanded, despite having campaigned for the other side.
"Brexit means Brexit," she told a news conference.
"The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public gave their verdict. There must be no attempts to remain inside the EU, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door and no second referendum."
Johnson, whose support of the Leave cause was widely seen as delivering its victory, saw his bid suddenly crumble after his Brexit campaign ally, Justice Secretary Michael Gove, withdrew his backing and announced his own leadership bid.
"I must tell you, my friends, you who have waited faithfully for the punchline of this speech, that having consulted colleagues and in view of the circumstances in parliament, I have concluded that person cannot be me," Johnson said at the news conference in a London luxury hotel.
Supporters in parliament, who had gathered expecting to hear him formally announce his candidacy, were left stunned.
Gove, a close friend of Cameron's despite differences with the prime minister over Europe, had previously said he would back Johnson. But in an article in the Spectator magazine on Thursday, Gove wrote that he had come "reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead".
Conservative lawmakers said Johnson may have been undone by supporters of Cameron exacting revenge for his decision to defy the prime minister and back the Leave campaign.
"He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword," said one lawmaker, describing internal party conflict on condition of anonymity. The lawmaker told Reuters that Johnson had realised his bid would fail after lawmakers defected from his campaign overnight.
Johnson became the latest political casualty of a civil war in the ruling party unleashed by Cameron's decision to hold the referendum on membership in the EU, an issue that divided the Conservatives for decades and now divides the country.
Johnson, known for a jokey public persona and a mop of unkempt blonde hair, became a popular national figure during eight years as London mayor, and used his charm to aid the Leave cause after deciding only late in the day to push for Brexit.
Several leading Conservatives questioned whether Johnson had the gravitas to run tough talks to mend the broken relationship with the EU and drive the country's future on the global stage.
In an article in the Times newspaper, May took aim at Johnson's persona by saying government was not "a game".
She also appealed to the working classes, many of whom voted to leave the EU in protest at an elite who, they say, failed to cushion their lives from increasing competition.
One senior Conservative lawmaker, Crispin Blunt, said Gove had probably withdrawn his support because Johnson refused to promise him a job.
Britain's new prime minister faces a huge task to unite the party and country, and persuade the EU to offer some kind of deal -- balancing the desire expressed by voters to reduce immigration with London's hope to maintain access to EU markets.
In the week since the referendum, Johnson had published a newspaper column promising curbs on immigration and continued access to the European common market, a position European officials say is untenable.
Conservative Party lawmakers will narrow a field of five leadership candidates down to two, and party members will then vote on which of them will become party leader and presumptive prime minister.
In addition to May and Gove, the candidates are Stephen Crabb, the cabinet minister responsible for pensions, Liam Fox, a right-wing former defence secretary, and Andrea Leadsom, a minister in the energy department.
Aware of the uncertainty in Britain, the party has said it is moving as quickly as it can to replace its leader and would do so by Sept. 9.
The main opposition Labour Party also faces a potential leadership battle, with lawmakers having voted no confidence in left-wing party leader Jeremy Corbyn, who refuses to step down.
The vacuum at the top of both major political parties has added to the political uncertainty at a time when Britain faces its biggest constitutional change since the dissolution of its empire in the decades after World War Two.