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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On June 28 2016 05:17 Reaps wrote: What is appealing about Corbyn is that he has a good character. However i don't think he has it in him to be a leader. He has zero Realpolitik in him. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10884 Posts
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
This is why i said i don't think he has it in him to make a good leader. As for his character, it seems he actually has some honesty in him, which is more than can be said for a lot of the others. | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On June 28 2016 05:42 Reaps wrote: This is why i said i don't think he has it in him to make a good leader. As for his character, it seems he actually has some honesty in him, which is more than can be said for a lot of the others. Yeah, sorry I agree (I'm not good at this internet discussing). Earlier this year he was faced with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions resigning because he thought that the cuts in disability benefits he was forced to make were morally reprehensible. Any Labour leader would have smelt blood and gone in for the kill, but Corbyn casually stood by as a Government Minister effectively said that benefits cuts were wrong. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On June 28 2016 06:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It is exactly that characteristic for a "kinder politics" that makes him so popular with Labour supportors, but not so popular with the Labour MP's. I don't know about that, but as an outsider, I think he was indeed too weak to convince people to vote for Remain. | ||
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On June 28 2016 08:48 Shield wrote: So, is it true the UK only contributed 0.44% of its GDP in order to be part of the EU? If yes, was it mentioned before referendum? If not, then that's really poor politics. It seems low enough to accept it considering there are economic benefits. It was mentioned....as a dollar figure though. 100 billion (whatever it is) sounds worse than 0.44% of our money. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
Something more related to the calculation of the weekly UK contribution. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On June 28 2016 09:10 Orcasgt24 wrote: It was mentioned....as a dollar figure though. 100 billion (whatever it is) sounds worse than 0.44% of our money. Well it is a lot of money. A single expenditure that is 0.5% of GDP is a lot. Not that the EU is trivial though, it's close enough to the economy to be worth that price. But idiotic arguments in favor of the now obviously ill-fated refugee project also argued from percentage of GDP as if that actually meant something. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4156 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 28 2016 16:03 Dante08 wrote: Is barely restricted immigration a happy intermediate when these "better ways to deal with it" are debated and voted on? Or maybe pause/heavily restrict while proponents/detractors go at it and inform those "not well informed enough to make a sound decision?" Or maybe just move the "make a sound decision" part back to the UK in the meantime.Looking back, this is why these kind of referendums are a dumb idea. Many people are not well informed enough to make a sound decision. Immigration is a huge problem in all developed countries and there are better ways to deal with it imo. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On June 28 2016 16:03 Dante08 wrote: Looking back, this is why these kind of referendums are a dumb idea. Many people are not well informed enough to make a sound decision. Immigration is a huge problem in all developed countries and there are better ways to deal with it imo. Well, they did one thing correctly concerning these kind of referendums. They made it as a popularity referendum. Does not decide anything, does not create any law, does not make any change mandatory. Everything depends on the parliament. So this kind of referendums is OK. What is not OK is that they presented it in the media as the big thing which decides everything. The politicians were in TV, they were visiting all parts of the country ... did a big campaign around it. And by doing this, it can't stay just a popularity voting ... | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4416 Posts
Still, it is wrong to blame him for not getting the Labour voters outside of London to vote remain.Clearly an agenda to get rid of him, yet he is popular with the membership.They need a good clearout and the members need to represent the values of the people they represent outside of the London bubble. Labour will get annihilated outside of London like they got annihilated last election in Scotland. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4416 Posts
On June 28 2016 16:03 Dante08 wrote: Looking back, this is why these kind of referendums are a dumb idea. Many people are not well informed enough to make a sound decision. Immigration is a huge problem in all developed countries and there are better ways to deal with it imo. Lets be honest here. Take Libya for example, richest country in North Africa until the Obama/UN led bombing campaigns a few years ago.Now a disaster zone.Syria similar story.Iraq. "left" or "right" (Bush/Obama/Blair) they just continue the war agenda, even when a million people marched in London in 2003 opposing the Iraq war they made up some ridiculous lies about WMDs and they are still walking the streets as free men! Last year Merkel invited in one million asylum seekers, many angry because of western intervention in Syria (who can blame them for being angry?) so now we see destabilisation all over Europe.What a fucking disaster. The chaos can only escalate from here but good on the UK for sticking it to the establishment in this fashion. | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4557 Posts
On June 28 2016 18:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Lets be honest here. Take Libya for example, richest country in North Africa until the Obama/UN led bombing campaigns a few years ago.Now a disaster zone.Syria similar story.Iraq. "left" or "right" (Bush/Obama/Blair) they just continue the war agenda, even when a million people marched in London in 2003 opposing the Iraq war they made up some ridiculous lies about WMDs and they are still walking the streets as free men! Last year Merkel invited in one million asylum seekers, many angry because of western intervention in Syria (who can blame them for being angry?) so now we see destabilisation all over Europe.What a fucking disaster. The chaos can only escalate from here but good on the UK for sticking it to the establishment in this fashion. idk what the Australian media are telling you, but "destabilisation all over Europe" is hilariously exaggerated. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4416 Posts
On June 28 2016 18:36 Laurens wrote: idk what the Australian media are telling you, but "destabilisation all over Europe" is hilariously exaggerated. Surge in support for right wing parties like Swedish Democrats, AfD, UKIP, Wilders is leading the polls in the Netherlands yeah? Do you really think that had the refugee crisis not exploded last year that Brexit would have won? Seriously? | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6274 Posts
German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned the U.K. to avoid illusions about future relations with the European Union, saying it won’t get favored treatment once it leaves the bloc. “We will ensure the cherry-picking principle won’t apply in the negotiations,” Merkel said to applause in a speech to Germany’s lower house of parliament Tuesday. “There must be -- and there will be -- a palpable difference between a country that wants to be part of the European Union and one that doesn’t.” Hours before heading from Berlin to an EU summit in Brussels where leaders will seek to start building a united response to the referendum, Merkel struck her toughest tone toward Britain yet. She reiterated that the U.K. can’t have informal talks on a new relationship with the EU before the government in London files its application to leave. “There shouldn’t be the slightest misunderstanding about the conditions laid out in the European treaties for a case like this,” Merkel said. “My only advice to our British friends is don’t delude yourself about the necessary decisions that need to be taken.” Wilders has led in polls more than once and that was already the case before Brexit (not sure how it is afterwards). He doesn't get that many seats though our electorate is pretty fractured. Wilders also usually does better in polls than elections. Ladt election he polled well and lost in yhe elections. Destabilisation is indeed exaggerated. | ||
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