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On June 17 2013 20:19 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 20:11 xM(Z wrote:
come on, that nature/natural shit is not even the issue.
evolution was always forced upon nature. evolution was always forced upon people. from an evolutionary perspective, freedom never existed. laws don't change happenings, they only punish them or hide them.
being legal to fuck a dog or being illegal to fuck a dog is inconsequential to the dude in his house/barn doing his dog. he doesn't care. he will fuck it, with or without the law. HE IS FREE.
- will this law help making bestiality less mainstream/more taboo?, ofc
- will this law help sexually confused people through their sexually challenging years?, ofc
i'll take those over freedom any day. Bestiality is already extremely taboo (just read this thread...) and couldn't be further from mainstream. I'm also struggling massively to see how this will help sexually confused people. Do you have any basis for saying any of these things, especially with "ofc"? edit: I somehow think I'm being trolled, re-reading the "I'll take these over freedom any day". Huh :/
there is no trolling. ppl in this thread said that teenagers were paying farmers to let them fuck their donkeys or w/e and it's not like they were all zoophiles or into bestiality. they did it because they didn't give a fuck and the social context allowed them to do it.
you don't just give freedom to a 5yr old. at best, it's safe to assume that he doesn't know what to do with it.
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I have to admit something. When I first read this thread, I was sure the argument would be drawn mainly between the ethical line, namely on the primacy of human need (which is also the justification for meat eating). How surprised am I that the topic is more massive and more colorful than I had known. I have never encountered something whose breadth and depth was more complicated that I initially thought. And to encounter something like this in a gaming site is a bonus. Thank you to those who thoughtfully contributed and argued on this thread.
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On June 17 2013 18:02 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 17:58 syno wrote:On June 17 2013 17:42 Nyovne wrote:
I've at the very least seen dogs, cats, rabits and a horse jump on and ride other creatures. Please explain this with it being unnatural. Lol, ok, didn't know about that. But still, if you wanna compare rape between humans and animals 1 on 1, that's just silly. That's like saying lions are murders and they deserve to die, or atleast like 20 years in jail. And hyenas are robbers, they should be in jail aswell. Are ants that invade termite mounds and eat their children guilty of war crimes? The difference is, we have a big brain, we are far more intelligent than any other animal. We don't just have to follow our instinct. We should know what's good and what's bad. And our big brains have decided that industrialised food production, with all its animal abuse, is good.
Speak for yourself. Many of us are aware that it's not good to cause suffering on a massive scale. We just don't see an alternative that works on a large scale so we are stuck with it for now.
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United States43465 Posts
On June 17 2013 21:06 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 18:02 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2013 17:58 syno wrote:On June 17 2013 17:42 Nyovne wrote:
I've at the very least seen dogs, cats, rabits and a horse jump on and ride other creatures. Please explain this with it being unnatural. Lol, ok, didn't know about that. But still, if you wanna compare rape between humans and animals 1 on 1, that's just silly. That's like saying lions are murders and they deserve to die, or atleast like 20 years in jail. And hyenas are robbers, they should be in jail aswell. Are ants that invade termite mounds and eat their children guilty of war crimes? The difference is, we have a big brain, we are far more intelligent than any other animal. We don't just have to follow our instinct. We should know what's good and what's bad. And our big brains have decided that industrialised food production, with all its animal abuse, is good. Speak for yourself. Many of us are aware that it's not good to cause suffering on a massive scale. We just don't see an alternative that works on a large scale so we are stuck with it for now.
Do they not have vegetables in your country? Not only do we have an alternative to eating meat, it was in fact the default system used for most of the history of human civilisation due to the inferior energy efficiency of meat and the tendency for a population to grow until it has exhausted its food supply. Regular access to meat is a very, very modern luxury which has come about due to industrialised meat production. It's not that we lack an alternative, meat eating is not the default position, we embraced animal abuse in order to gain the luxury of meat.
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On June 17 2013 19:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 19:36 Nyovne wrote:
And this is where it gets petty. Lets not. At least man up and just say that you find it disgusting, and that's pretty much the only basis that you want it to be illegal (i'm using a general 'you' here).
Well that is my point. I find it disgusting, unmoral, unnatural, disturbing and sodomic and that is the only reason why I agree it should be illegal. I wasnt even hiding that.
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On June 17 2013 21:06 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 18:02 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2013 17:58 syno wrote:On June 17 2013 17:42 Nyovne wrote:
I've at the very least seen dogs, cats, rabits and a horse jump on and ride other creatures. Please explain this with it being unnatural. Lol, ok, didn't know about that. But still, if you wanna compare rape between humans and animals 1 on 1, that's just silly. That's like saying lions are murders and they deserve to die, or atleast like 20 years in jail. And hyenas are robbers, they should be in jail aswell. Are ants that invade termite mounds and eat their children guilty of war crimes? The difference is, we have a big brain, we are far more intelligent than any other animal. We don't just have to follow our instinct. We should know what's good and what's bad. And our big brains have decided that industrialised food production, with all its animal abuse, is good. Speak for yourself. Many of us are aware that it's not good to cause suffering on a massive scale. We just don't see an alternative that works on a large scale so we are stuck with it for now.
Agreed with the first part, not so much with the second. What we can't see is an alternative that would let us have that much meat as readily available all the time. I'd go on with this but it's off topic, so yeah...
Edit : or could just shut up and let Kwark speak. He does that way better than me.
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what sick people voted no yes
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The poll is really... odd. Is it actually accurate?
I have a few more questions if you don't mind. Can you please be honest in answering them?
Can they also be added to the OP? For the second poll [Reasons for (possibly) having sex with animals], could you please specify the details in your post, like in what country if it is tradition,
Poll: Having sex with animalsI have never had and will never do it (50) 72% I have done it and I see no problem doing it again (12) 17% I have never done it but I might/will (6) 9% I have done it but I will not do it again (1) 1% 69 total votes Your vote: Having sex with animals (Vote): I have never had and will never do it
(Vote): I have never done it but I might/will
(Vote): I have done it but I will not do it again
(Vote): I have done it and I see no problem doing it again
Poll: Reasons for (possibly) having sex with animalsI (may) have a thing for animals (11) 42% Curiosity (5) 19% No chance to do it with humans (2) (5) 19% I was forced into doing it (losing a bet, etc.) (4) 15% Tradition / local practice / belief (1) 4% Other reasons (please specify) (0) 0% 26 total votes Your vote: Reasons for (possibly) having sex with animals (Vote): Curiosity
(Vote): Tradition / local practice / belief
(Vote): I was forced into doing it (losing a bet, etc.)
(Vote): No chance to do it with humans (2)
(Vote): I (may) have a thing for animals
(Vote): Other reasons (please specify)
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On June 17 2013 21:25 esdf wrote:
what sick people voted no yes
Suddenly all that internet obsession with cats makes me suspicious 
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On June 17 2013 21:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 21:06 hypercube wrote:On June 17 2013 18:02 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2013 17:58 syno wrote:On June 17 2013 17:42 Nyovne wrote:
I've at the very least seen dogs, cats, rabits and a horse jump on and ride other creatures. Please explain this with it being unnatural. Lol, ok, didn't know about that. But still, if you wanna compare rape between humans and animals 1 on 1, that's just silly. That's like saying lions are murders and they deserve to die, or atleast like 20 years in jail. And hyenas are robbers, they should be in jail aswell. Are ants that invade termite mounds and eat their children guilty of war crimes? The difference is, we have a big brain, we are far more intelligent than any other animal. We don't just have to follow our instinct. We should know what's good and what's bad. And our big brains have decided that industrialised food production, with all its animal abuse, is good. Speak for yourself. Many of us are aware that it's not good to cause suffering on a massive scale. We just don't see an alternative that works on a large scale so we are stuck with it for now. Do they not have vegetables in your country? Not only do we have an alternative to eating meat, it was in fact the default system used for most of the history of human civilisation due to the inferior energy efficiency of meat and the tendency for a population to grow until it has exhausted its food supply. Regular access to meat is a very, very modern luxury which has come about due to industrialised meat production. It's not that we lack an alternative, meat eating is not the default position, we embraced animal abuse in order to gain the luxury of meat.
Do they have manners in yours?
But yeah, it's a luxury and I could probably go without meat if I put some thought into it. So yes, I am putting my own convenience above the rights of the animals. But the fact that I (or a large majority of society) is doing it, doesn't make it automatically right.
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Why is there no "I enjoy it" option in the poll ? I guess that would be the first and foremost reason to...
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On June 17 2013 21:36 Cynry wrote:
Why is there no "I enjoy it" option in the poll ? I guess that would be the first and foremost reason to...
i think the first and foremost reason to, is that you just cant get laid ^^
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Urh urh urh you smaaaart...
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What about banning animal murders ? Meat industry seems much more cruel to me (and I am pretty sure it affect 10000% more animals) that having sex with an animal ....
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On June 17 2013 21:36 Cynry wrote:
Why is there no "I enjoy it" option in the poll ? I guess that would be the first and foremost reason to...
I see your point. Can we have it as "I have a thing for animals", since enjoyment would be an effect and may be true regardless of the reason.
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United States43465 Posts
On June 17 2013 21:34 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 21:20 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2013 21:06 hypercube wrote:On June 17 2013 18:02 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2013 17:58 syno wrote:On June 17 2013 17:42 Nyovne wrote:
I've at the very least seen dogs, cats, rabits and a horse jump on and ride other creatures. Please explain this with it being unnatural. Lol, ok, didn't know about that. But still, if you wanna compare rape between humans and animals 1 on 1, that's just silly. That's like saying lions are murders and they deserve to die, or atleast like 20 years in jail. And hyenas are robbers, they should be in jail aswell. Are ants that invade termite mounds and eat their children guilty of war crimes? The difference is, we have a big brain, we are far more intelligent than any other animal. We don't just have to follow our instinct. We should know what's good and what's bad. And our big brains have decided that industrialised food production, with all its animal abuse, is good. Speak for yourself. Many of us are aware that it's not good to cause suffering on a massive scale. We just don't see an alternative that works on a large scale so we are stuck with it for now. Do they not have vegetables in your country? Not only do we have an alternative to eating meat, it was in fact the default system used for most of the history of human civilisation due to the inferior energy efficiency of meat and the tendency for a population to grow until it has exhausted its food supply. Regular access to meat is a very, very modern luxury which has come about due to industrialised meat production. It's not that we lack an alternative, meat eating is not the default position, we embraced animal abuse in order to gain the luxury of meat. Do they have manners in yours? But yeah, it's a luxury and I could probably go without meat if I put some thought into it. So yes, I am putting my own convenience above the rights of the animals. But the fact that I (or a large majority of society) is doing it, doesn't make it automatically right.
I'm just amazed that you present regular meat eating, something which has for thousands of years been a luxury that only the elites were able to enjoy, as something without an alternative. It wasn't until the rationing of the second world war that meat became a part of the regular diet of people in England, this isn't a necessary thing with no reasonable alternative, this is a recent luxury we have embraced.
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On June 17 2013 23:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 21:34 hypercube wrote:On June 17 2013 21:20 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2013 21:06 hypercube wrote:On June 17 2013 18:02 KwarK wrote:On June 17 2013 17:58 syno wrote:On June 17 2013 17:42 Nyovne wrote:
I've at the very least seen dogs, cats, rabits and a horse jump on and ride other creatures. Please explain this with it being unnatural. Lol, ok, didn't know about that. But still, if you wanna compare rape between humans and animals 1 on 1, that's just silly. That's like saying lions are murders and they deserve to die, or atleast like 20 years in jail. And hyenas are robbers, they should be in jail aswell. Are ants that invade termite mounds and eat their children guilty of war crimes? The difference is, we have a big brain, we are far more intelligent than any other animal. We don't just have to follow our instinct. We should know what's good and what's bad. And our big brains have decided that industrialised food production, with all its animal abuse, is good. Speak for yourself. Many of us are aware that it's not good to cause suffering on a massive scale. We just don't see an alternative that works on a large scale so we are stuck with it for now. Do they not have vegetables in your country? Not only do we have an alternative to eating meat, it was in fact the default system used for most of the history of human civilisation due to the inferior energy efficiency of meat and the tendency for a population to grow until it has exhausted its food supply. Regular access to meat is a very, very modern luxury which has come about due to industrialised meat production. It's not that we lack an alternative, meat eating is not the default position, we embraced animal abuse in order to gain the luxury of meat. Do they have manners in yours? But yeah, it's a luxury and I could probably go without meat if I put some thought into it. So yes, I am putting my own convenience above the rights of the animals. But the fact that I (or a large majority of society) is doing it, doesn't make it automatically right. I'm just amazed that you present regular meat eating, something which has for thousands of years been a luxury that only the elites were able to enjoy, as something without an alternative. It wasn't until the rationing of the second world war that meat became a part of the regular diet of people in England, this isn't a necessary thing with no reasonable alternative, this is a recent luxury we have embraced.
This may be true for England, but is it true for the rest of the world? Also, it would be wise for you to provide some sources for your claims.
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On June 16 2013 14:25 electronic voyeur wrote:Poll for the men and women of TL Poll: If it weren't taboo, would you fuck an animal (dog, horse, goat, etc.)No (189) 83% Yes (40) 17% 229 total votes Your vote: If it weren't taboo, would you fuck an animal (dog, horse, goat, etc.) (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
I really hope the people who said yes are joking. If not, wtf is wrong with the people?
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On June 17 2013 20:10 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 20:09 syno wrote:
Meh, i hate saying this, but I guess you (mostly marvellosity and KwarK) are right.
It is (imo) fucked up and disgusting, but that should not be the foundation of a law. I got it now, finally. Agreed.
Oh please... All of morality and by extension all of law are built upon human emotions.
I'm getting sick of people talking about "logic" in this thread. Logic is nothing. Logic is simply how you rationalize the emotions you already have.
I could come up with a hundred reasons to kill off hundreds of people from a purely pragmatic point of view, which is what most people mean when they say "logic." And yet no one would support it, because it is emotionally repugnant, pure and simple. Humans are feeling creatures, that's how we understand and relate to existence. That's how we decide actions, come up with principles, judge others, decide laws, vote, everything.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 18 2013 00:28 datcirclejerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 20:10 Nyovne wrote:On June 17 2013 20:09 syno wrote:
Meh, i hate saying this, but I guess you (mostly marvellosity and KwarK) are right.
It is (imo) fucked up and disgusting, but that should not be the foundation of a law. I got it now, finally. Agreed. Oh please... All of morality and by extension all of law are built upon human emotions. I'm getting sick of people talking about "logic" in this thread. Logic is nothing. Logic is simply how you rationalize the emotions you already have. I could come up with a hundred reasons to kill off hundreds of people from a purely pragmatic point of view, which is what most people mean when they say "logic." And yet no one would support it, because it is emotionally repugnant, pure and simple. Humans are feeling creatures, that's how we understand and relate to existence. That's how we decide actions, come up with principles, judge others, decide laws, vote, everything.
It's because most people who are using the 'logic' type argument are also coming from the grounding of not harming other individuals.
While obviously the thought of murdering someone horrifies me, other than that it's illegal because society and civilisation would collapse if everyone murdered, raped, burgled, defrauded, assaulted each other.
I'm not sure the same can be said of being bummed by your dog in the living room when no-one else would ever find out about it
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EPT
