• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:06
CEST 13:06
KST 20:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview4[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week 89 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker [ASL21] Semifinals B [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2022 users

Bitcoin discussion thread - Page 11

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 71 Next
Chrono000
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Korea (South)358 Posts
December 01 2013 19:11 GMT
#201
On December 02 2013 04:08 obesechicken13 wrote:
As someone who doesn't understand bitcoins, I initially thought you meant that you only needed to write down one passphrase and your wallet was safe in case you lost your laptop.

Now it sounds like you need a passphrase for every coin you have.



na na, if u generate a wallet it will have a secret key or for some services a passphrase or both.

Bitcoin is still a little rough around the edges in terms of user friendliness but u know so was the internet and email not that long ago.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
December 01 2013 19:16 GMT
#202
On December 02 2013 04:11 Chrono000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 04:08 obesechicken13 wrote:
As someone who doesn't understand bitcoins, I initially thought you meant that you only needed to write down one passphrase and your wallet was safe in case you lost your laptop.

Now it sounds like you need a passphrase for every coin you have.



na na, if u generate a wallet it will have a secret key or for some services a passphrase or both.

Bitcoin is still a little rough around the edges in terms of user friendliness but u know so was the internet and email not that long ago.

So you have one secret key and a passphrase, and your wallet is safe even if you lose your laptop? I just want to make sure I understand this.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
December 01 2013 19:50 GMT
#203
Huge crash on bitcoins today?
$1300 a coin last time i saw today its $784 a coin
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
zachMEISTER
Profile Joined December 2010
United States625 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-01 20:00:56
December 01 2013 20:00 GMT
#204
On December 02 2013 04:50 Pandemona wrote:
Huge crash on bitcoins today?
$1300 a coin last time i saw today its $784 a coin


There was a Darknet Market crash/scam that saw people lose nearly 5400BTC, lots of confidence was shattered. It will bounce back though. The guys behind the scam aren't doing it very stealthily, and there is a huge reddit thread with a few people tracking every move of the stolen coins.
psillypsybic!
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-01 20:17:42
December 01 2013 20:06 GMT
#205
I forgot I have money in a US bank account. Hope this crash brings the price low. Might buy 1k in bitcoins and see how it goes.

edit: Also the price on Mt.gox is a lot higher than on BTC-E.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
zachMEISTER
Profile Joined December 2010
United States625 Posts
December 01 2013 20:08 GMT
#206
On December 02 2013 05:06 obesechicken13 wrote:
I forgot I have money in a US bank account. Hope this crash brings the price low. Might buy 1k in bitcoins and see how it goes.


It won't go much lower I don't think, I'd set a couple of buy-in prices are particular intervals. Or watch it very closely.
psillypsybic!
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-01 20:33:10
December 01 2013 20:24 GMT
#207
So I started to mine with GUIminer, accessing to a pool. I have few questions:

1) Is it safe for my hardware? Right now I'm mining, but I don't see my pc slowing down or anything. The 'cpu affinity' boxes don't seem to change the speed at which I'm mining. I just don't wanna wake up and find my CPU fried.
2) Do I just have to wait? This site needs me to create a 'worker' that than connects to the mining server. Does anything forbid me to create more than one?
3) Let's say I earn 1 bitcoin. How do I cash out?

These are noob questions, I know but it's difficult to find anything
Dating thread on TL LUL
waffelz
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany711 Posts
December 01 2013 20:45 GMT
#208
On December 02 2013 05:24 SoSexy wrote:
So I started to mine with GUIminer, accessing to a pool. I have few questions:

1) Is it safe for my hardware? Right now I'm mining, but I don't see my pc slowing down or anything. The 'cpu affinity' boxes don't seem to change the speed at which I'm mining. I just don't wanna wake up and find my CPU fried.
2) Do I just have to wait? This site needs me to create a 'worker' that than connects to the mining server. Does anything forbid me to create more than one?
3) Let's say I earn 1 bitcoin. How do I cash out?

These are noob questions, I know but it's difficult to find anything



1) it shouldnt directly damage your hardware, as long as it is proper cooled. however, it should shorten the lifespan of it, it still should pass the waranty but should definitly die earlyer than it would have without mining bitcoins(as long as you mine bitcoins when the pc would normally where idle/ shutdown). I can go into detail about that if needed.

2) I dont know

3), as far as I know, the power consumption caused by the miningprocess per bitcoin outweighs the value of 1 bitcoin. Not by a huge amount, but it does. efficent bitcoin-mining as far as I know is only possible via machines that are build for this purpose.
RIP "The big travis CS degree thread", taken from us too soon | Honourable forum princess, defended by Rebs-approved white knights
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
December 01 2013 20:50 GMT
#209
On December 02 2013 05:24 SoSexy wrote:
So I started to mine with GUIminer, accessing to a pool. I have few questions:

1) Is it safe for my hardware? Right now I'm mining, but I don't see my pc slowing down or anything. The 'cpu affinity' boxes don't seem to change the speed at which I'm mining. I just don't wanna wake up and find my CPU fried.
2) Do I just have to wait? This site needs me to create a 'worker' that than connects to the mining server. Does anything forbid me to create more than one?
3) Let's say I earn 1 bitcoin. How do I cash out?

These are noob questions, I know but it's difficult to find anything


1) Not enough info but you shouldn't be using your CPU anyway

2) One worker per GPU

3) You won't earn a bitcoin. In fact, if you're running a desktop PC you're actually losing money by mining because your electricity costs are greater than the value of the coins you get. I recommend stopping.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-01 20:55:41
December 01 2013 20:54 GMT
#210
Seerejai, I'm not doing solo mining. I'm mining in a pool with 1k users, so I think I contribute suuuuuper slow but my pc doesn't seem overloaded.
Dating thread on TL LUL
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
December 01 2013 22:28 GMT
#211
On December 02 2013 05:08 zachMEISTER wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 05:06 obesechicken13 wrote:
I forgot I have money in a US bank account. Hope this crash brings the price low. Might buy 1k in bitcoins and see how it goes.


It won't go much lower I don't think, I'd set a couple of buy-in prices are particular intervals. Or watch it very closely.


arbitrage heaven lol

it's quite an exciting thing to have been part of what is essentially the same bubble for 3 times in a row. It honestly makes trading it and picking tops and bottoms much easier since the signals are exactly the same all three times
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
December 01 2013 22:43 GMT
#212
On December 02 2013 05:54 SoSexy wrote:
Seerejai, I'm not doing solo mining. I'm mining in a pool with 1k users, so I think I contribute suuuuuper slow but my pc doesn't seem overloaded.


Pool doesn't matter at all. Whether you mine solo or in a pool you end up with the exact same amount of coins. You need to plug your hardware into a calculator.

I 100% guarantee you are losing money unless you have free electricity, in which case you're making profit but it's still only pennies a day and simply isn't worth it. You might get a single coin after a few years of mining.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
December 01 2013 23:04 GMT
#213
I don't think it's a good idea to discourage people from mining. I do think it's a good idea to inform people that if they're GPU mining they'll hardly see any BTC returns-- really, almost none-- and if they're CPU mining they probably won't see any, at all, so people jumping into things without doing their research get upset when they're holding on to like ten bucks in BTC after spending thousands on electricity costs.

Basically, mining isn't a good idea right now if you're looking to make money. If you've got other motivations, though, go for it!
:3
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6226 Posts
December 01 2013 23:20 GMT
#214
I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the appeal of bitcoins. Often, lately, you'll hear that the price of bitcoins is skyrocketing, but who is buying them at such high prices? Seems like a scam to trade "real" money for bitcoins, especially with the hassle of attempting to barter with them for goods and services. If the goal of the people who got in early is to cash out and make a ton of "real" money.... doesn't that seem shady to anybody else?
good vibes only
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-02 00:57:04
December 02 2013 00:35 GMT
#215
On December 02 2013 07:43 Serejai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 05:54 SoSexy wrote:
Seerejai, I'm not doing solo mining. I'm mining in a pool with 1k users, so I think I contribute suuuuuper slow but my pc doesn't seem overloaded.


Pool doesn't matter at all. Whether you mine solo or in a pool you end up with the exact same amount of coins. You need to plug your hardware into a calculator.

I 100% guarantee you are losing money unless you have free electricity, in which case you're making profit but it's still only pennies a day and simply isn't worth it. You might get a single coin after a few years of mining.


Not true. Maybe as time goes to infinity you do, but realistically if you mine by yourself right now with your GPU you have a 99.9% chance of not getting a bitcoin for a year, while if you pool then you will get 0.0001 of a bitcoin once a week or so depending on what kind of setup you have for mining.

However yes, electricity costs right now outweigh the cost of mining with anything actually (assuming 6 cent / kWh), not just GPU's. People looked at how many coins they could get with a bit-coin miner, and it turned out to be a lot, but then many many people bought one, and now the supply of bitcoin miners has driven the price below average total costs, but above average variable costs, so most people are still running their miner's to make back some of the money spent on bitcoin miners, and some just because they don't exactly realize how much running their miner is costing them, and so they run it anyway.


Now to answer what so many people have been asking... Why would someone buy a bitcoin when it costs 1000? Think guys, it's a very simple concept. If you invest your money in Canada with a safe investment, you will likely get a 3-4% annual return. If you buy a bitcoin for 1000, and it goes to 1200 in a week, which is pretty much what happened in the last 3 days, you will get a return of 20% a week, or if you do an investment like this once a week for a year, you will gain a return of over 1,310,000% in a year. Very volatile prices is like high-stakes gambling, except assuming everyone is as skilled as you, you have a 50% chance of making money, and a 50% chance of losing, which unlike gambling, where the gambling favours the casino, therefore this is a legitimate area in where to invest your money. It's much like poker really, with the closest resemblance to penny stocks.

It does not matter what the price of the bitcoin is, that doesn't effect whether people will buy it or not, what matters is whether people will think it will go higher, or lower. That's what determines the price.

On December 01 2013 01:17 DannyJ wrote:
And I mocked one of my coworkers for spending 300 dollars on a miner last year...


Good thing you did, they were way too late to the party, haha.

On December 01 2013 08:44 Azide wrote:
It's hard to buy any damn coin. Sucks. But seems those who go through with it paid off.

Also regarding your $700k, make sure you talk to an accountant or someone about paying tax on it. Don't want the government to rape you. Technically it'll be considered income. Maybe capital gains? Definitely make sure you look into that.


I am aware, they are capital gains ): I am in the 39% tax bracket now (lol), and capital gains are taxed at 50%, so that is a 19.5% tax rate, although after tax exemptions, tax-free savings accounts, and other student benefits, it should be a 14-15% tax rate.

On December 02 2013 07:28 BrTarolg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 05:08 zachMEISTER wrote:
On December 02 2013 05:06 obesechicken13 wrote:
I forgot I have money in a US bank account. Hope this crash brings the price low. Might buy 1k in bitcoins and see how it goes.


It won't go much lower I don't think, I'd set a couple of buy-in prices are particular intervals. Or watch it very closely.


arbitrage heaven lol

it's quite an exciting thing to have been part of what is essentially the same bubble for 3 times in a row. It honestly makes trading it and picking tops and bottoms much easier since the signals are exactly the same all three times


Very wrong. See, the first time it crashed people were all selling because they were all thinking, "this is it, end of the bitcoin", the second time it happened, it was still something oh shit oh shit, but now it's very unlikely the price will drop anywhere as much as before because once the price drops, most people will just say "oh, I'll buy because obviously it'll go back up", but because this will be such a wide-spread thought the way the bitcoin will react is going to be interesting. I am 99% sure though it will differ quite a lot from the last two crashes though. The interesting thing about bitcoin, is even now that the price is so high, quite a lot of folks with little education are investing in bitcoins opposed to investors (unlike in the stock market or any other investment tool), that the market behaves in a much more predictable pattern for someone that does their research to understand.

For the average person bitcoins used to be an exceptional investment, but I do think that time has run out, and now corporations and investment firms will begin to take over the market because they are seeing it's not as risky as initially thought. And once the market is taken over by people that do this for a living, the average joe will be losing money. Just like how it happened with the stock market.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
December 02 2013 01:15 GMT
#216
On December 02 2013 09:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 07:28 BrTarolg wrote:
arbitrage heaven lol

it's quite an exciting thing to have been part of what is essentially the same bubble for 3 times in a row. It honestly makes trading it and picking tops and bottoms much easier since the signals are exactly the same all three times


Very wrong. See, the first time it crashed people were all selling because they were all thinking, "this is it, end of the bitcoin", the second time it happened, it was still something oh shit oh shit, but now it's very unlikely the price will drop anywhere as much as before because once the price drops, most people will just say "oh, I'll buy because obviously it'll go back up", but because this will be such a wide-spread thought the way the bitcoin will react is going to be interesting. I am 99% sure though it will differ quite a lot from the last two crashes though. The interesting thing about bitcoin, is even now that the price is so high, quite a lot of folks with little education are investing in bitcoins opposed to investors (unlike in the stock market or any other investment tool), that the market behaves in a much more predictable pattern for someone that does their research to understand.

For the average person bitcoins used to be an exceptional investment, but I do think that time has run out, and now corporations and investment firms will begin to take over the market because they are seeing it's not as risky as initially thought. And once the market is taken over by people that do this for a living, the average joe will be losing money. Just like how it happened with the stock market.


*shrug* could be. I trade professionally in futures, but i guess you could say it's kind of fun since this is the first actual "bubble" that i've had the opportunity to partake in

If you include the first mini bubble, all 3 (and now this 4th one) all have extremely similar technical movements. A few things like measuring vol over short time periods show almost the exact same kinds of moves as it has had all previous times

What's interesting perhaps is that bitcoin even though it provides the biggest opportunity is still not a market makers market as the volatility just craps anyone trying to take that edge out so hard. So i think there will be a ton of technical inefficiencies still that can be capitalised on until this situation reverses (for sure it's waay to far to the other extreme in more competitive markets)
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
December 02 2013 03:14 GMT
#217
Bitcoins feel like one of those "too good to be true" things.

Usually things that are too good to be true, are just that.
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
December 02 2013 09:24 GMT
#218
Would you say that Litecoins is not worth it now either? Due to the same reasons as Bitcoins? Litecoin mining is supposedly better for numerous reasons, but if like Bitcoins it is not outweighing the cost of Electricity then i would probably stop..lol
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
MoonfireSpam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1153 Posts
December 02 2013 09:37 GMT
#219
Other problem I have (apart from the localbitcoins not really making much sense) is that it seems really easy to defraud someone. Pretty mcuh every other post on there is about someone getting ripped off.
aseq
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands3999 Posts
December 02 2013 10:27 GMT
#220
On December 02 2013 12:14 Butterednuts wrote:
Bitcoins feel like one of those "too good to be true" things.

Usually things that are too good to be true, are just that.


To me, they feel more like a 'startup' thing. Like when a company first goes to the stock market. After a while, it stabilizes and acts like a normal share. But in the beginning, some lucky people can make huge profits or losses.
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 71 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
08:00
2026 Season 1: Playoffs
SHIN vs MaruLIVE!
herO vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings SOOP103
GSL EN (SOOP)0
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8123
Jaedong 606
Larva 336
EffOrt 269
Mind 261
Soma 193
Light 182
scan(afreeca) 163
JYJ 161
Pusan 146
[ Show more ]
Last 134
Hm[arnc] 111
hero 109
ggaemo 75
sorry 50
Sharp 35
Shinee 30
Sacsri 29
JulyZerg 24
Backho 23
Movie 13
Shine 8
zelot 6
Barracks 5
IntoTheRainbow 1
NotJumperer 0
Dota 2
Gorgc4306
XaKoH 510
monkeys_forever232
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
zeus419
Other Games
gofns34857
singsing1678
crisheroes265
Pyrionflax161
B2W.Neo61
DeMusliM53
amsayoshi44
QueenE41
XcaliburYe30
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL43213
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 423
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH400
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1828
• Jankos1317
Upcoming Events
IPSL
4h 54m
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
7h 54m
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
OSC
12h 54m
Replay Cast
21h 54m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
The PondCast
1d 22h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 23h
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
3 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs SHIN
Rogue vs Bunny
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.