EPTOn April 01 2013 09:06 D10 wrote:
Entropy will always win.
Entropy will always win.
I doubt anyone would ever believe in, or hope for, a form of immortality where you can survive the heat death of the universe.
Will Science Unlock Immortality Before We Die? - Page 8
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
I doubt anyone would ever believe in, or hope for, a form of immortality where you can survive the heat death of the universe. | ||
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NTTemplar
609 Posts
Also lobsters so far haven't shown decline with age and are believed to possess immortality, but we simply haven't found out or even looked into it for many enough years to know. As for whetever we will actually manage it within this century I really can't say. It wills like a lottery, and there is the smallest of chance we pull out the winning number, stumbling upon the answer to regenerate cells faster than they die out. I do hope we manage it, but it is more hope than realistic expectations. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On April 01 2013 09:08 Tobberoth wrote: I doubt anyone would ever believe in, or hope for, a form of immortality where you can survive the heat death of the universe. Entropy isn't just a cosmological term. It isn't just the end of the universe, it's the correct assumption that every molecule, cell, and atom that exists in your body, and elsewhere, will eventually "dissolve" or dissipate. And if we're going to talk about extreme longevity, then call it longevity, not immortality. But aside from that, even extreme longevity in humans is getting overly hyped by some people here. Someone mentioned that there was a study that showed a procedure could reverse the aging in mice. Let's just assume that's true and this procedure can apply to humans. There are soooooo many systems our bodies depend on, that all deteriorate in different ways, that whatever procedure worked on strengthening these mice would only be solving one aspect out of thousands that would be required to elongate the human lifespan in any meaningful and desirable way. Maybe we develop this procedure and are able to indefinitely prevent decay of our organic tissue. Great! -- but what does that do for someone who's immune system is simply wearing out? Nothing. They still die. What makes this whole concept ridiculous is the idea that there is ONE thing that could possibly reverse the deterioration of EVERY system we require for healthy living. This "secret" will keep our immune systems intact, our bloodflow intact, our organs all performing their functions as they should, our vision, our hearing, our brain synapses, etc., etc., etc. It isn't just implausible, it's impossible and really does fly in the face of basic physics. Entropy and decay are everywhere. Everything in us dies eventually. The only immortality possible would be to somehow salvage our consciousness from our body -- which is currently completely impossible, because we don't even know what a consciousness is. Even if you copied all the information in a person's brain, all you've done is made a copy. Because a scientist can reverse the "age" of a mouse's organic tissue doesn't mean we've found immortality. Optimistically, it means we might get better medical procedures to cure a few of our many ailments. Realistically, it probably is an over-hyped advertisement for a new skin-cream. | ||
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BoxingKangaroo
Japan955 Posts
I read this quote many years ago and it always stuck with me, though I'm not sure of the original source. I think it's inevitable that 'medical' immortality will be achieved in the future. By that I mean being able to live forever free from aging and death from disease. I think this is the intent of the OP's post. Yes there will be accidental death, and you can't beat 'heat death', but for all intents and purposes, you'd be immortal. Will it be in my lifetime? Maybe. This will be a huge century for biology. We're starting to tinker with DNA manipulation, experimenting with growing major organs and unravelling what it actually means for the body to age. As far as I'm aware, there's no hard law that says 'the body must die' ala 'the speed of light is the limit'. Medical research into saving life, and curing disease has the inevitable side-effect of leading to an immortal body. "Oh you have liver cancer? Have a new one we grew for you." "Oh your liver is old? Well we actually can grow you a new one now, because we did the research for transplants". See how it works? Aside from getting the body to live forever, there's always silicon. Once we can copy a brain state to silicon then, immortality is easy. This also solves the 'accidental death' problem because you can make periodic backups. This will probably not be achievable in my lifetime though. In 200 years? Maybe. All the sciences (chemistry, physics, biology) have progressed immensely in the last 200 years. One can only imagine what will come in the next 200. Some people are getting sidetracked on whether we should become immortal which is certainly an important question, but misses the point of the OP I think which is whether we can. There's a wealth of good SF out there which deals with the implications of people who live forever and I encourage you to search it out. For anyone who wants to read about a universe where 'brain backups' are commonplace, read any of the 'Culture' novels by Iain M. Banks. | ||
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BoxingKangaroo
Japan955 Posts
On April 01 2013 09:33 Leporello wrote: Entropy isn't just a cosmological term. It isn't just the end of the universe, it's the correct assumption that every molecule, cell, and atom that exists in your body, and elsewhere, will eventually "dissolve" or dissipate. And if we're going to talk about extreme longevity, then call it longevity, not immortality. The thread is perhaps unfortunately titled, but to me it was clear the OP was referring to extreme longevity when using the term immortal. No-one really believes becoming truly immortal is possible, not in the least within our lifetimes. The only sensible interpretation is 'extreme longevity'. But aside from that, even extreme longevity in humans is getting overly hyped by some people here. Someone mentioned that there was a study that showed a procedure could reverse the aging in mice. Let's just assume that's true and this procedure can apply to humans. There are soooooo many systems our bodies depend on, that all deteriorate in different ways, that whatever procedure worked on strengthening these mice would only be solving one aspect out of thousands that would be required to elongate the human lifespan in any meaningful and desirable way. Maybe we develop this procedure and are able to indefinitely prevent decay of our organic tissue. Great! -- but what does that do for someone who's immune system is simply wearing out? Nothing. They still die. What makes this whole concept ridiculous is the idea that there is ONE thing that could possibly reverse the deterioration of EVERY system we require for healthy living. This "secret" will keep our immune systems intact, our bloodflow intact, our organs all performing their functions as they should, our vision, our hearing, our brain synapses, etc., etc., etc. So it's just too hard? I don't believe that there is ONE solution that will cure us of aging. But neither do I think the problem is intractable. The body is complex, but not infinitely so. There are a limited number of problems to solve and lots of time to solve them. It isn't just implausible, it's impossible and really does fly in the face of basic physics. Entropy and decay are everywhere. Everything in us dies eventually. The only immortality possible would be to somehow salvage our consciousness from our body -- which is currently completely impossible, because we don't even know what a consciousness is. Even if you copied all the information in a person's brain, all you've done is made a copy. It doesn't fly in the face of physics at all. The universe will increase entropy inevitably. Things within that universe, like the human body, do not obey the same rule (closed systems and all that). Because a scientist can reverse the "age" of a mouse's organic tissue doesn't mean we've found immortality. Optimistically, it means we might get better medical procedures to cure a few of our many ailments. Realistically, it probably is an over-hyped advertisement for a new skin-cream. You're right it doesn't. But it's a step forward and an indication that it may actually be possible to become immortal. | ||
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CptCutter
United Kingdom370 Posts
and this guy is a baws. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
But tbh, I've heard a lot of personal stories and can probably assume that MOST people DON'T want to live forever Forever guys... 50 years, 100 years, 200 years, 500 years... 1000 YEARS... AND THATS ONLY 1000! We're talking FOREVER! There's a lot of people who DON'T want to live forever... I do... And I hope it comes to light before I reach my 50s (30 years from now) edit: @ the post above me... I LOVE BigThink videos... esp that guy (and Neil DeGrasse Tyson... he's a boss too!) | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On April 01 2013 10:15 Keitzer wrote:... I don't think you have to worry about your age, as long as you won't be after the point of no return. After treatment you wouldn't definitely look like 60 :D.There's a lot of people who DON'T want to live forever... I do... And I hope it comes to light before I reach my 50s (30 years from now) | ||
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KING CHARLIE :D
United States447 Posts
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
I think it's unlikely, extended life maybe, but I wouldn't have thought you could really continually receive treatment to keep you from ever ageing past a certain point just from continually getting updated treatment/shots/whatever. You'd think there would be a limit.  It wouldn't stop people from dying from 'unnatural' causes like being shot, hit by a car or mauled by zerglings though, but perhaps that is for the best in the long run. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
The life energy is immortal, so I am doing my best to reverse aging, by keeping youthful and stressfree. However, even though the progress is slowed, my body do age. By the time I reach 300, I have had 200-250 years, where I want to die, but dare not end it, fearing my life energy will be transferred to something not my organic existence. So I wait, and wait for me to genetically reproduce my organic self, to reach immortality in body, as well as in spirit. But trust me, you do not want to become immortal in your organic self. By the time you reach 150, you do not only want to kill yourself, but mankind. I am 42 now, and I already want to kill half of the people inhabiting the internet. Mostly males. The other half, I adore. I want to become immortal, so I can follow NesTea, and Team Liquid to the bitter end, when I turn off the machines. I do this, because the pains that I have lived with for hundreds of years, get the better of me, accepting the next phase in immortality. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
What's so special about the human condition? There's only the 5 senses that most of us cling too and besides that nothing....... | ||
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Starp
Canada199 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On April 01 2013 13:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: I wouldn't want to live forever in the human condition even if it's possible. Death actually does not exist, only a changing from conditions. I would never want to be in the human condition forever. Wanting to do so is only clinging and eventually you will change conditions no manner what as we have no control over the universe. What's so special about the human condition? There's only the 5 senses that most of us cling too and besides that nothing....... When you're dead, there's zero senses, I'd say 5 is plenty. | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
On April 01 2013 10:39 KING CHARLIE :D wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned, but anyone interested in this topic should check out the documentary "Transcendent Man" about Ray Kursweil. Super interesting ideas about what enhancements we will have and why he thinks the technological singularity will happen in 2029. The guy eats 40 pills a day trying to hold on until then, lol. Yes...someone did already mention it. :p On March 31 2013 21:47 KING CHARLIE :D wrote: for anyone interested in this topic, you should check out the documentary "Transcendent Man" about Ray Kursweil. He's this inventor that believes in 2029 humans will be able to live forever. He may be wrong, but the watch is worth your time. It extrapolates a ton on what will be available to humans at that time. At any rate, was an interesting watch until the whole "bring back the dead" bit, which was interesting and a bit weird. | ||
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Kaeru
Sweden552 Posts
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TSORG
293 Posts
On April 01 2013 09:23 NTTemplar wrote: Funny some people say noone will ever "unlock" immortality, when there alleready is a jellyfish capable of it. Also lobsters so far haven't shown decline with age and are believed to possess immortality, but we simply haven't found out or even looked into it for many enough years to know. As for whetever we will actually manage it within this century I really can't say. It wills like a lottery, and there is the smallest of chance we pull out the winning number, stumbling upon the answer to regenerate cells faster than they die out. I do hope we manage it, but it is more hope than realistic expectations. well in a sense humans can do it too, we only have to find a way to live without oxigen... | ||
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On April 01 2013 18:47 Tobberoth wrote: When you're dead, there's zero senses, I'd say 5 is plenty. How do you know that there's zero senses when you die? Any proof? Also whats so special about the senses? | ||
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