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On August 03 2013 06:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Obviously there's a sliding scale. If you could not reasonably expect that your undisclosed thing would be an issue regarding their consent then sure, you didn't know. Likewise if you can reasonably assume they know, or that they considered the possibility and didn't care, then sure. But it's being argued by people here that someone must ask about every possible dealbreaker, no matter how unlikely, and likewise that someone doesn't have to disclose anything unless asked, no matter how likely a dealbreaker. And that's where it gets really rapey.
I think it's also reasonable to presume that my potential partner is not transphobic and/or racist. A very, very statistically significant portion of the population would not sleep with a transphobic or racist person. Therefore, it's only fair to say that you are also a rapist if you didn't disclose considering that you could have reasonably assumed that it might be a problem.
I mean, I agree, if you knowingly sleep with someone that doesn't want to sleep with trans people, sure, thet's very rapey. But if you don't have any reason to believe one way or the other, then it's equally as rapey as the person who was transphobic not informing the other. In which case they raped each other. Not sure if that was the desired conclusion, but there it is.
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On August 03 2013 06:04 Shiori wrote:
There hasn't been a single good reason as to why one shouldn't just say that they're trans.
The last time they did they got beat up.
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But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot.
Wait. I thought Kwarik was freaking out and everyone was politely telling him to calm down. Now I'm a bigot because I want to sleep with cis women. Go figure.
The last time they did they got beat up.
In public?
the person who was transphobic not informing the other.
Bad analogy, because racism/transphobia aren't really concrete categories. Most people wouldn't consider themselves racist or transphobic, regardless of whether they are, so it's not like this matters anyway. If someone actually did detest trans people, it would certainly be repugnant of them to try to seduce a trans person.
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United States43458 Posts
On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:32 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:30 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
No, universal moral standard. No. Systemic oppression. Reinforced by bigotry and prejudice wearing the mask of moral standard. Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot.
Nope, I always, always get angry about issues of consent on tl and I have zero problems with trans people who don't go "consent is inconvenient so I choose for them".
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lol I guess im not being offensive enough so no ones responding to me 
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United States43458 Posts
On August 03 2013 06:06 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:04 Shiori wrote:
There hasn't been a single good reason as to why one shouldn't just say that they're trans. The last time they did they got beat up.
And we're back to the "my life is hard so I should be able to disregard informed consent" argument.
It doesn't work that way. Two wrongs don't make a right. This is a universal standard.
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1. Calm your emotions.
2. Read what Kwark is actually writing, without doing your very best to interpret it as intentionally offensive.
3. Keep in mind that he might be employing a wider definition of rape than you assume.
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On August 03 2013 06:05 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:32 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
No. Systemic oppression. Reinforced by bigotry and prejudice wearing the mask of moral standard. Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. I wasn't trying to advance the argument that its rape to withhold that information, I was merely commenting that the idea that it couldn't possibly be rape because "they're the ones that put their dick inside of me" is kind of sexist. You're right that I haven't been raped, but not all instances of it are violent. The question is what extent is someone allowed to go to in order to get consent from a sexual partner?
Do you go out of your way to list the reasons why your one-night-stands should not fuck you?
Didn't think so.
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On August 03 2013 06:06 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. Wait. I thought Kwarik was freaking out and everyone was politely telling him to calm down. Now I'm a bigot because I want to sleep with cis women. Go figure. In public? Bad analogy, because racism/transphobia aren't really concrete categories. Most people wouldn't consider themselves racist or transphobic, regardless of whether they are, so it's not like this matters anyway. If someone actually did detest trans people, it would certainly be repugnant of them to try to seduce a trans person.
On August 02 2013 17:11 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 10:01 Shiori wrote:
I mean, at the end of the day, it's like this: if someone goes to a club looking for a one-night stand, and they happen to talk to someone who is trans out of the dozens of patrons, one should ask oneself: would that person still be interested in the trans individual if they were aware of that person's trans status? If this is "no" in anything approaching a significant number of cases, it seems pretty clear that the trans individual should be open about it. After all, what exactly happens if they do come right out with it? Either nothing or they'll get rejected. The worst that could conceivably happen is that someone or some group will jeer at the trans individual, at which point that individual can walk over to whoever owns the establishment (or a bouncer) and tell those people to shut the fuck up (same as anyone else would). Club/bar owners aren't morons; they don't want some altercation going on in their establishment, and they don't want other patrons to feel like harassment is tolerated, because then they will lose customers.
This notion that a cisgendered person (male or female) is going to beat the shit out of you on the spot in a club if you tell them that you're trans is absolutely absurd. The only way this is even remotely possible is if you remained silent on the subject until you're already at the house of the other person. I mean, once someone asks you to come with them, it's pretty obvious what's implied. That would be the time by which one should speak, and not after. If they are disgusted, well, that's their choice, and you can move onto the next one. But when you do find someone to have sex with, at least you'll be able to feel that this person actually finds you attractive in full, rather than some assumption-laden interpretation of you that you're hesitant to pull down. Just going to begin with my standard disclaimer: I think I should, and so do, disclose to potential partners. I also haven't suggested anyone in this discussion yesterday is a transphobe or a bigot.The problem with this is that you don't seem to understand how badly outing yourself in a community can be. It's not just about the immediate violence, you run the risk of never being a man or woman again that community, you're now the trans man or woman. This means you have to deal with all the same crap that you did when you transitioned that after passing and surgery and maybe moving somewhere new you had hoped to leave behing. No one transitions to be a transexual, it's just a medical thing you have to do because it's the least worst option on the way to transitioning to being your actual sex according to your gender. The problems you can face for casually outing yourself can include unemployment, harrassment, being ostricised, assault (even if not right then from the person you tell), media attention (if your history is deemed weird), rape, and murder or suicide. I think the discussion would reach a better understanding if people understood what a big risk it is. I appreciate, and am honestly thankful, that for the most part those who don't realise immediately don't because they're tolerant and decent people who would find such consequences appauling, but you have to realise that these concerns are real or everyone is going to keep talking past each other.
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On August 03 2013 06:06 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. Wait. I thought Kwarik was freaking out and everyone was politely telling him to calm down. Now I'm a bigot because I want to sleep with cis women. Go figure. In public?
coming out as trans isn't always something that happens in public. Picture this.
You're at his place, you've been kissing, you both want to go further, but you decide to let them know "there's something I want to tell you first".
Next thing you know he's hitting you, calling you a freak, etc. It can get ugly fast, and its a problem that a lot of trans people have to deal with.
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On August 03 2013 06:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:32 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
No. Systemic oppression. Reinforced by bigotry and prejudice wearing the mask of moral standard. Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. Nope, I always, always get angry about issues of consent on tl and I have zero problems with trans people who don't go "consent is inconvenient so I choose for them".
So not only are you loose about your use of "rape", but also the use of "consent". Brilliant.
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i googled "How do you make a vagina into a penis?" and i got "You can't. Only a penis into a vagina."
that's pretty one sided/discriminatory i'd say.
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United States43458 Posts
On August 03 2013 06:05 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:00 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Obviously there's a sliding scale. If you could not reasonably expect that your undisclosed thing would be an issue regarding their consent then sure, you didn't know. Likewise if you can reasonably assume they know, or that they considered the possibility and didn't care, then sure. But it's being argued by people here that someone must ask about every possible dealbreaker, no matter how unlikely, and likewise that someone doesn't have to disclose anything unless asked, no matter how likely a dealbreaker. And that's where it gets really rapey. I think it's also reasonable to presume that my potential partner is not transphobic and/or racist. A very, very statistically significant portion of the population would not sleep with a transphobic or racist person. Therefore, it's only fair to say that you are also a rapist if you didn't disclose considering that you could have reasonably assumed that it might be a problem. I mean, I agree, if you knowingly sleep with someone that doesn't want to sleep with trans people, sure, thet's very rapey. But if you don't have any reason to believe one way or the other, then it's equally as rapey as the person who was transphobic not informing the other. In which case they raped each other. Not sure if that was the desired conclusion, but there it is.
The reasonable argument comes down to numbers. The cis assumption is reasonable due to 99.99% of people being cis. The trans population is significantly higher, a large number of posters in this very topic have expressed a desire not to have sex with a trans woman. I would not expect disclosure if you could reasonably assume they didn't care, such as someone met at a LGBT rally or whatever, but with the general population in this day and age, it's a big enough group that you should act accordingly.
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On August 03 2013 06:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:32 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
No. Systemic oppression. Reinforced by bigotry and prejudice wearing the mask of moral standard. Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. Nope, I always, always get angry about issues of consent on tl and I have zero problems with trans people who don't go "consent is inconvenient so I choose for them".
And I have zero issue with real men. You know, the ones with character. It's the spineless cowards hiding behind authority I have a problem with. This is a fun game we should keep playing it.
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On August 03 2013 06:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:05 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. I wasn't trying to advance the argument that its rape to withhold that information, I was merely commenting that the idea that it couldn't possibly be rape because "they're the ones that put their dick inside of me" is kind of sexist. You're right that I haven't been raped, but not all instances of it are violent. The question is what extent is someone allowed to go to in order to get consent from a sexual partner? Do you go out of your way to list the reasons why your one-night-stands should not fuck you? Didn't think so.
well I'm a virgin so its not come up yet :/
Anyway, that wasn't the issue at hand when I made that comment. fugs was basically insinuating that it can only be rape if you're the person doing the penetrating. Its not. That's not really the best assumption to have...
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On August 03 2013 06:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:06 ComaDose wrote:On August 03 2013 06:04 Shiori wrote:
There hasn't been a single good reason as to why one shouldn't just say that they're trans. The last time they did they got beat up. And we're back to the "my life is hard so I should be able to disregard informed consent" argument. It doesn't work that way. Two wrongs don't make a right. This is a universal standard.
naw im just saying thats a good reason why one shouldn't just say they are trans.
unfortunately by my moral criteria that would mean that they can never have sex while its reasonable to assume there is a good chance the person they are talking to would change their mind about having sex with them if they knew they were trans
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United States43458 Posts
On August 03 2013 06:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:07 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. Nope, I always, always get angry about issues of consent on tl and I have zero problems with trans people who don't go "consent is inconvenient so I choose for them". So not only are you loose about your use of "rape", but also the use of "consent". Brilliant.
Consent built on false assumptions that one party knows is false is not consent by the moral standard of pretty much anyone but a sociopath.
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On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:32 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:30 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
No, universal moral standard. No. Systemic oppression. Reinforced by bigotry and prejudice wearing the mask of moral standard. Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot.
I stopped following this thread when Klondike wouldn't let go of the last line. I'm glad I haven't wasted my time. Just because I don't want to sleep with a trams does not make me a transphobe nor a bigot.
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On August 03 2013 06:11 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 03 2013 06:05 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:
[quote]
You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five?
Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot. I wasn't trying to advance the argument that its rape to withhold that information, I was merely commenting that the idea that it couldn't possibly be rape because "they're the ones that put their dick inside of me" is kind of sexist. You're right that I haven't been raped, but not all instances of it are violent. The question is what extent is someone allowed to go to in order to get consent from a sexual partner? Do you go out of your way to list the reasons why your one-night-stands should not fuck you? Didn't think so. well I'm a virgin so its not come up yet :/ Anyway, that wasn't the issue at hand when I made that comment. fugs was basically insinuating that it can only be rape if you're the person doing the penetrating. Its not. That's not really the best assumption to have...
No, fugs was speaking from her own personal viewpoint...so naturally her perspective is from a female with male partners.
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