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On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that.
I agree. I'm done here. Teamliquid always struck me as a gaming board that had higher standards. Kwark is not maintaining those standards himself while holding the hammer.
Later, nerds.
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On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous.
And you know damn well that some of your comments would have gotten you banned if you weren't a mod.
You guys spent how long arguing against the watering down of transphobic and then you start calling people rapists after you've clearly also been attacking them emotionally with other users? You also are purposes ignoring the past 60 pages of discussion on what does and doesn't consitute necessary position for disclosure. You already know I agree with you, but you've been atching on to bad arguments and attacking users and misrepresenting and straw manning at every point. You seriously crossed the line of deceny in this thread.
You don't even seem to know that Klondikebar isn't trans FFS.
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United States42539 Posts
On August 03 2013 05:51 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:49 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:41 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2013 05:33 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:31 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:30 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:27 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:22 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:18 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, asking people if they wanna have sex with you before you have sex with them must suck. Intentional and mean-spirited twisting. In my experience, people ask me and I say "yes" if I want to, not the other way around. But in your's and other people's eyes, that makes me a rapist. There's nothing to say to that other than to call it busted. If you think their assumptions are leading them to consent when they would not otherwise do so and you know their assumptions are false, 100% rapist. I think almost everyone would agree. 100% Double standard. please explain why you think its a double standard? if you deceive someone in order to get a "yes" then its probably rape. It's not deception. *I* don't do anything except exist. Who and what I am is not about anyone else but me. So, if you withholding information that you have reason to believe would make them change their mind, that is fine? "Withholding information" here is to tell someone that I am transsexual, yes? It's none of their business. I am not actively deceiving anyone and I think that the problem with most people here is that they assume that transsexuals are inherently deceitful. It's none of their business right up until the point where they're choosing to consent based on the assumption that you are cis at which point it becomes very much their business. How are you not getting this? A significant number of the trans posters in this topic are making me really quite angry and sickened. It's been a string of "well if I didn't rape people life would be harder for me, what am I meant to do, have my life be hard?" "well I knew they had their criteria for sex but I thought their criteria were dumb so I decided for them", "fuck those guys", "well even if they think it's a big deal I don't think it's a big deal so I decided for them". THESE ARE ABHORRENT AND REALLY, REALLY RAPEY ARGUMENTS. Hell, I've actually become more transphobic from talking to trans people. Get your shit together. Are you getting that I can't be responsible for other people's assumptions? Stop asking me to be responsible for you.
99.99% of people are cis. It is not reasonable to assume that just because a person doesn't say "are you cis?" means that they accept the possibility that you are trans.
There was a great twin switch metaphor here earlier. I'll give the basics of it.
A guy has a twin who is married. The twins don't know each other as they were adopted separately. His twin's wife doesn't know her husband has a twin. One night the unmarried twin shows up and has sex with his brother's wife.
Is it her duty to ask her husband each time "is it you or your twin?" while knowing that he might possibly have a twin but probably doesn't or rather is it reasonable to assume the guy who looks like her husband is her husband. Likewise is it reasonable for the twin to assume that his brother's wife's consent is built on the assumption that he is her husband rather than her husband or his twin or whatever?
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On August 03 2013 05:52 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. i think a more accurate description of kwark's behavior would be: frustrated that their correct logical argument regarding consent is not being received as truth, and that everyone doesn't put consent in the same place in their moral pyramid. leading them to being offensive and using exaggerated language in sensitive topics towards sensitive people. i also agree that trans people should stop reading because i feel so so very bad for you having to read some of this stuff.
I also think that people need to use better examples, rather than broad ones. Cleary, no one is staying that if a transgender person has to out themself to someeone they can confirm would have no problem sleeping with them. It is the gray area where they get the feeling the person might not be willnig to do so and they choose to withhold the information in an to assure they get laid. That is the part of the discussion people are objecting to.
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Can everybody calm down real fast? This suddenly got ugly.
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On August 03 2013 05:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:22 xM(Z wrote:
just gimme a club!
i would've solved this thread 50 pages ago ... How exactly would you do that?(he asks with fear of the answer)
just some unadulterated, innocent energy transfer.
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United States42539 Posts
On August 03 2013 05:53 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. I agree. I'm done here. Teamliquid always struck me as a gaming board that had higher standards. Kwark is not maintaining those standards himself while holding the hammer. Later, nerds.
We just have different standards. I like consent and, when it's dubious due to a massive disparity in information, informed consent. You like getting ploughed and give no fucks about anyone else. I believe my standards are somewhat higher.
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On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous.
What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck.
I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape.
I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape.
My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape.
I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape.
Seriously. What. The. Fuck.
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On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck.
Yeah, I don't really like the rape argument, but it keeps comming up. I suggested exploitive, because that is what it really is if you decide to withhold information will decrease your chances of getting laid.
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United States42539 Posts
On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck.
Obviously there's a sliding scale. If you could not reasonably expect that your undisclosed thing would be an issue regarding their consent then sure, you didn't know. Likewise if you can reasonably assume they know, or that they considered the possibility and didn't care, then sure. But it's being argued by people here that someone must ask about every possible dealbreaker, no matter how unlikely, and likewise that someone doesn't have to disclose anything unless asked, no matter how likely a dealbreaker. And that's where it gets really rapey.
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On August 03 2013 05:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:52 ComaDose wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. i think a more accurate description of kwark's behavior would be: frustrated that their correct logical argument regarding consent is not being received as truth, and that everyone doesn't put consent in the same place in their moral pyramid. leading them to being offensive and using exaggerated language in sensitive topics towards sensitive people. i also agree that trans people should stop reading because i feel so so very bad for you having to read some of this stuff. I also think that people need to use better examples, rather than broad ones. Cleary, no one is staying that if a transgender person has to out themself to someeone they can confirm would have no problem sleeping with them. It is the gray area where they get the feeling the person might not be willnig to do so and they choose to withhold the information in an to assure they get laid. That is the part of the discussion people are objecting to.
this "feeling" is not required in the arguments presented by the pro disclosure side.
their central point is: "its reasonable to assume that there is a good chance a stranger's choice to have sex with someone will change if they learn they are a trans person, therefore, you have a moral obligation to tell them before sex so they will be able to make an informed decision"
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On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck.
There is a difference here. Being transgendered is a quality that many people would go a long way to avoid. I don't condone that viewpoint but it is quite common. Being transgendered is also a quality that is profound, but often invisible.
I agree that calling it rape is a bit of a stretch, but it does seem somewhat morally duplicitous to withhold that information, especially if you suspect it would change their mind.
(for the record, I also think it would be duplicitous for someone you had a one night stand with to withhold their marital status given that adultery is an another thing that many people want to avoid.
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On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:32 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:30 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:30 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
100% Double standard. No, universal moral standard. No. Systemic oppression. Reinforced by bigotry and prejudice wearing the mask of moral standard. Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no"
Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass.
Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it?
But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot.
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On August 03 2013 06:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Obviously there's a sliding scale. If you could not reasonably expect that your undisclosed thing would be an issue regarding their consent then sure, you didn't know. Likewise if you can reasonably assume they know, or that they considered the possibility and didn't care, then sure. But it's being argued by people here that someone must ask about every possibly dealbreaker, no matter how unlikely, and likewise that someone doesn't have to disclose anything unless asked, no matter how likely a dealbreaker. And that's where it gets really rapey.
Kwark, there is a difference between rape and being "rapey". One is super duper bad and will land you in jail. The other is just being a jerk.
On August 03 2013 06:01 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck. There is a difference here. Being transgendered is a quality that many people would go a long way to avoid. I don't condone that viewpoint but it is quite common. Being transgendered is also a quality that is profound, but often invisible. I agree that calling it rape is a bit of a stretch, but it does seem somewhat morally duplicitous to withhold that information, especially if you suspect it would change their mind. (for the record, I also think it would be duplicitous for someone you had a one night stand with to withhold their marital status given that adultery is an another thing that many people want to avoid.
Im siding with Wolf here, pick a new word.
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99.99% of people are cis. It is not reasonable to assume that just because a person doesn't say "are you cis?" means that they accept the possibility that you are trans.
This.
Just this.
As I said before, they're some "default settings". That's not good. That's not bad. That's just a fact. When you've a police uniform, by default, people will think you're a cop.
You have to tell people if you're not in this case. Do you think it is morally acceptable that I said "Yes, I'm your boyfriend", then had sex with an other woman, if I didn't told my girlfriends I'm libertin ? I don't think so.
Same situation here.
Fact is, it's not a rape as legally, and I understand this word is hurting you, 'cause there's so much "bad background". But here's a fact: you're cheating with them.
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On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape.
If he/she knew beforehand you wouldnt want to have sex had you known he/she were married. Then yes its very immoral (I dont think people should throw around the word 'rape' so haphazardly).
My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape.
Same here. Immoral.
I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape..
Again, immoral.
What people in here dont seem to get is that its not the transgender-part thats the gist of the moral issue. The thing that matters is if you knowingly withhold information that would be a dealbreaker had you told your partner. That is all that matters. That is immoral and ranges from rape-esque to minor misdemeanor depending on the information you have (if you know beforehand it will cause your partner emotional trauma then its just as bad as rape, if you know beforehand it will result in a shrug then its a minor misdemeanor).
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On August 03 2013 06:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Obviously there's a sliding scale. If you could not reasonably expect that your undisclosed thing would be an issue regarding their consent then sure, you didn't know. Likewise if you can reasonably assume they know, or that they considered the possibility and didn't care, then sure. But it's being argued by people here that someone must ask about every possible dealbreaker, no matter how unlikely, and likewise that someone doesn't have to disclose anything unless asked, no matter how likely a dealbreaker. And that's where it gets really rapey.
but you stopped using "rapey" and went right onto telling people to "stop raping people" even though it is a sliding scale and you had no evidence they had raped anyone before.
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On August 03 2013 06:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:57 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 03 2013 05:51 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that. It's been legitimately argued in here that "well what am I supposed to do, telling people about my status and letting them have informed consent inconveniences me, not take advantage of their ignorance?". As if that's a difficult moral question for most of the world. "God my dating life would be hard if I stopped being so rapey, I'm so unfortunate, don't hold me to the same moral standard". It's outrageous. What the fuck. Seriously, you're a moderator. What the fuck. I come into this thread, which was already a clusterfuck of ignorance, only to discover that withholding any information that might possibly be a turnoff constitutes rape. I don't want to be an adulterer, I find out my one-night-stand was married. Apparently that's rape. My girlfriend had a slight cold, I wouldn't have been intimate with her if I knew she was sick. Apparently that's rape. I date a girl, we have sex. Turns out she had a kid, I don't like that. Apparently that's rape. Seriously. What. The. Fuck. Obviously there's a sliding scale. If you could not reasonably expect that your undisclosed thing would be an issue regarding their consent then sure, you didn't know. Likewise if you can reasonably assume they know, or that they considered the possibility and didn't care, then sure. But it's being argued by people here that someone must ask about every possibly dealbreaker, no matter how unlikely, and likewise that someone doesn't have to disclose anything unless asked, no matter how likely a dealbreaker. And that's where it gets really rapey.
No. Just stop. If I could have reported you, I would have several times over the last few pages.
Purposefully infecting someone with an STD through consensual sex does not constitute rape, and that's a far more serious "withholding of information".
So once again. Just. Stop.
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On August 03 2013 05:48 Iyerbeth wrote:
I would stronlgy advise all trans people to stop reading and posting in this thread. There's no reason to discuss this now.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that.
Um, let's be fair here. It's not like Kwark is the only person getting heated. When we have comments like:
I don't assume the worst in people. My life is happier that way.
talking about people who simply want to have sex with cis women only, I don't think it's fair to say that one side is being really polite and understanding and non-confrontational while the other is going all out.
When a fucking mod is calling people rapists and making personal attacks, twisting the words of others, misrepresenting banned people's opinions and supporting attacks on others fuck that.
I don't know if you followed this thread from the start, but Klondike was, at some points, pretty much saying that if you don't want to sleep with trans people, there's a good chance you're a bigot. Also, apparently you have to have really good, convincing reasons based on some universal sort of logic for anything you believe. In no way is Kwark going off the handle here, compared to this. I think it's pretty understandable that, given a situation like "I had sex with someone under false pretenses," it's probably fair to say that, while this legally might not be rape, it's pretty fucking immoral.
The question is whether, given a one night stand between two people, cis status is implied. This isn't a question of theory. It's a pretty obvious fact, because pretty much everyone would rather know than not know. It's amazing to me that some people have such a hard time understanding this.
There hasn't been a single good reason as to why one shouldn't just say that they're trans. I mean, yes, maybe fewer people will have sex with it. So what? This idea that people are going to go on murderous rampages in public is ridiculous, and, furthermore, is in no way a justification for fearing every single person you encounter.
Purposefully infecting someone with an STD through consensual sex does not constitute rape, and that's a far more serious "withholding of information".
You realize that people with HIV are required by law in many places to notify anyone they have sex with of their status, right?
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On August 03 2013 06:01 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:52 packrat386 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:48 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:44 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:40 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:37 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:35 fugs wrote:On August 03 2013 05:34 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 05:32 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 03 2013 05:30 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
No, universal moral standard. No. Systemic oppression. Reinforced by bigotry and prejudice wearing the mask of moral standard. Not raping = oppression. Must suck to be a minority and not get given a free moral card to do whatever the fuck you want. Fuck off. I have nothing against trans people. I just really like consent. You're accusing us of rape what'd you expect, a high five? Well stop raping people and I won't call you a rapist. Jesus. It's not hard. A bunch of trans people in here all agree that they tell people for exactly the described reasons. I haven't raped anyone. If I recall correctly they're the ones that put their dick inside of me. Because only women can be raped. Nice... You should return your moral compass to the store you got it from, you sicken me. Oh I'd hate to sicken yet another individual, it's not like the world is full of you people. Stop fucking around and grow up. You definitely don't sound tolerant of trans people since you keep yelling rape. Maybe you should take a look at your own damned moral compass, it's not our job to cater to you. It's not our responsibility to guide your penis around the bar. "Its not my job to keep her legs shut, she never said no" Oh how easy it is for a man to link rape and 'trickery', as if you've ever been raped. It's fucking offensive as hell hearing this argument. For starters none of you fucks know what it's like to be held down and raped so don't fucking act like you've been there. And second take a gander and the obvious double standards you're blowing out your ass. Oh she's a virgin, oh she's a blonde, oh she's nerdy, oh she's got brown eyes, oh she's got long hair. Wanna know something? She's lying about every single fucking one of those things, she's not a virgin, her natural hair color is red, she hasn't picked up a video card in her life, she's wearing contact lenses, and she has hair extensions in. Yet that's not a fucking problem for you is it? But when she's a trans person, oh holy shit now it's rape by deceit! Fuck you people, it's not about withholding information, it's about her being trans and you being a bigot.
I wasn't trying to advance the argument that its rape to withhold that information, I was merely commenting that the idea that it couldn't possibly be rape because "they're the ones that put their dick inside of me" is kind of sexist. You're right that I haven't been raped, but not all instances of it are violent. The question is what extent is someone allowed to go to in order to get consent from a sexual partner?
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