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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On March 11 2013 07:43 Smat wrote: From my perspective his statement was inflammatory. Sorry we can't see eye to eye  .His statement was inflammatory but reexamine your response ... When discussing positive things like sexualities and gender identity, it's not a good idea to use the word pussy as an insult.. Especially in the context of masculinity and feminity like you used it. | ||
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
On March 11 2013 07:53 fugs wrote: Why is respecting people's sexual/gender identities something to argue about? Don't make a fuss over something that isn't any of your business and don't act like a douche bag to the person just because you have a different view. Being a respectful human being should be more important than getting your point across. I'm just a naive nobody but maybe other people's feelings are just as, if not more, important than my own? Send this person an insane asylum. People are less debating the content and more than it should be my business what other people's sexual and gender identities are. One personal gripe of mine is people who call programs that make toilets more welcoming for transgender and gender no conforming people, "dangerous". Yes because the sign on the door is all that is stopping a determined sexual pevert. | ||
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Alay
United States660 Posts
On March 11 2013 07:59 Kerotan wrote: One personal gripe of mine is people who call programs that make toilets more welcoming for transgender and gender no conforming people, "dangerous". Yes because the sign on the door is all that is stopping a determined sexual pevert. It's the innate fear that trans people are sexual deviants that are just looking to rape rape rape. Logic can sometimes be overridden by knee-jerk. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Smat
United States301 Posts
He implied that transgender women are really men and then proceeded to imply they were disgusting by saying he would "throw up" if he ever had a sexual encounter with a trans person. I am surprised you did not pick up on these things. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Smat
United States301 Posts
On March 11 2013 10:02 Emzeeshady wrote: Well tbh it was me that said that so I didn't pick up on it because I wasn't implying any of those things. I didn't imply that they were really men, I had never watched the family guy episode (because family guy is awful) and assumed from the way people were commenting about it that it was a man. I apologize if it was not. Ok. Sorry for jumping on you. There is a description of the episode earlier in the thread, if you want to know what was being discussed. Ironically, I love some family guy every once in awhile, ha. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greimas'_rectangle Thanks sam for introducing this to me. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
It's not bigoted to not want to have sex with a particular transsexual person. It is bigoted to not want to engage in sexual relations because a person is transsexual. The reason it is both bigoted and transphobic is because it denies that transsexual women are actually women. Basically, when you say that you are a heterosexual male (ie. you are a guy that likes having sex with women), but you don't want to have sex with a transsexual woman, you're saying: I think transsexual women have some property or quality that differentiates them from cis women. However, there is no property, attribute, or quality that could deny that a transsexual woman is a woman that does not invalidate cis women as well. XX chromosomes? Some cis women are born with irregular chromosomes. Ovaries? Hysterectomy. Vagina? Both trans and cis women have these. Being transsexual is not a physical property that some women have and some don't. But what people actually mean when they say they don't want to have sex with a transsexual woman, I think, tends to be that they "used" to be a guy and this makes them uncomfortable. They mean that they don't view transsexual women as "real" women. But this is not much different than saying, "I don't want to date person xyz because they had z condition in the past" (where z could be anything from cancer, a job at walmart, or they used to be in a gay relationship). It's okay if you don't want to have sex with transsexual women. They probably don't want to have sex with you, either. But I'm just pointing out that it is bigoted and transphobic to say this outloud, in the same way that it would be to say that you wouldn't have sex with a woman that used to work at walmart, with a woman that was in a gay relationship once a time, or with a woman that is black (but perhaps you didn't know she had african american ancestry until after you had sex). No woman is obligated to share her medical or professional history with you prior to sex. Although I would recommend it, not for the sake of men who are offended by the idea of having sex with a transsexual, but for their own safety, as violence against trans women is a serious problem. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10346 Posts
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cz
United States3249 Posts
Don't they? Otherwise there would be no such thing as transgendered and everyone would be cis. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:30 shinosai wrote: It is bigoted to not want to engage in sexual relations because a person is transsexual. The reason it is both bigoted and transphobic is because it denies that transsexual women are actually women. This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. An operation can't change your sex. And not wanting to have sex with a transsexual does not make you a bigot. You're a troll or insane. | ||
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Kerotan
England2111 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:43 cz wrote: >you're saying: I think transsexual women have some property or quality that differentiates them from cis women. Don't they? Otherwise there would be no such thing as transgendered and everyone would be cis. No. trans women are not cis gender women, but the temptation is to "third sex" trans people, disabled women are no less women than trans women are women. On March 11 2013 11:46 heliusx wrote: This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. An operation can't change your sex. And not wanting to have sex with a transsexual does not make you a bigot. You're a troll or insane. Actually it can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:51 Kerotan wrote: No. trans women are not cis gender women, but the temptation is to "third sex" trans people, disabled women are no less women than trans women are women. Looking for a response from shinosai. | ||
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fugs
United States135 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:40 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Call me a bigot then, I don't want to fuck someone that had a penis. That's your right and as long as you don't act like a dick about it or beat the poor girl then you aren't a bigot. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:46 heliusx wrote: This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. An operation can't change your sex. And not wanting to have sex with a transsexual does not make you a bigot. You're a troll or insane. It is my belief that it does. I am not a troll, so you can feel free to believe I am insane. However, there is no physical definition of "sex" that excludes trans women but does not also exclude some cis gendered women at the same time. Some cis women were born with different genitalia, some cis women have had hysterectomies, some cis women do not have xx chromosomes. I'm not insane, your definition of the female sex is just overly reliant on invisible properties like "born a woman". Properties that do not exist outside of your mind. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:30 shinosai wrote: In response to the question: Is it bigoted to not want to have sex with a transsexual person? It's not bigoted to not want to have sex with a particular transsexual person. It is bigoted to not want to engage in sexual relations because a person is transsexual. The reason it is both bigoted and transphobic is because it denies that transsexual women are actually women. Basically, when you say that you are a heterosexual male (ie. you are a guy that likes having sex with women), but you don't want to have sex with a transsexual woman, you're saying: I think transsexual women have some property or quality that differentiates them from cis women. However, there is no property, attribute, or quality that could deny that a transsexual woman is a woman that does not invalidate cis women as well. XX chromosomes? Some cis women are born with irregular chromosomes. Ovaries? Hysterectomy. Vagina? Both trans and cis women have these. Being transsexual is not a physical property that some women have and some don't. But what people actually mean when they say they don't want to have sex with a transsexual woman, I think, tends to be that they "used" to be a guy and this makes them uncomfortable. They mean that they don't view transsexual women as "real" women. But this is not much different than saying, "I don't want to date person xyz because they had z condition in the past" (where z could be anything from cancer, a job at walmart, or they used to be in a gay relationship). It's okay if you don't want to have sex with transsexual women. They probably don't want to have sex with you, either. But I'm just pointing out that it is bigoted and transphobic to say this outloud, in the same way that it would be to say that you wouldn't have sex with a woman that used to work at walmart, with a woman that was in a gay relationship once a time, or with a woman that is black (but perhaps you didn't know she had african american ancestry until after you had sex). No woman is obligated to share her medical or professional history with you prior to sex. Although I would recommend it, not for the sake of men who are offended by the idea of having sex with a transsexual, but for their own safety, as violence against trans women is a serious problem. Let me get this straight: You are saying that people are bigots (as in they treat a group with hatred and intolerance) if they do not want to have sex with that group? What about all those who do not want to have sex with obese people - does that make them bigots? You might be able to make an argument for superficial, but bigots?! Wauw. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:43 cz wrote: >you're saying: I think transsexual women have some property or quality that differentiates them from cis women. Don't they? Otherwise there would be no such thing as transgendered and everyone would be cis. No, they don't. They have a medical history, but history is not the same thing as a physical property. The fact that I "used" to have red hair does not mean that you can now say that I'm not really blonde now. There is no property exclusive to cis women that no trans woman possesses, with the exception of "invisible" properties that exist only to exclude and marginalize trans women (like "born a woman") | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On March 11 2013 11:53 shinosai wrote: It is my belief that it does. I am not a troll, so you can feel free to believe I am insane. However, there is no physical definition of "sex" that excludes trans women but does not also exclude some cis gendered women at the same time. Some cis women were born with different genitalia, some cis women have had hysterectomies, some cis women do not have xx chromosomes. I'm not insane, your definition of the female sex is just overly reliant on invisible properties like "born a woman. Honestly though, what if we don't want to have sex with any of those sorts of women? I mean, that might make us narrow minded in a way but bigoted? Ehh, preference can be preference for preference's sake. The man who wants to meet a women beautiful to him is not bigoted against all the women who are not. | ||
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