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On March 11 2013 03:06 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 02:58 nikonikonii wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. Pedos say pedophilia isn't about sex either. In before I'm told i'm a bigot etc etc. Pedophilia isn't immoral in itself; one can't be blamed for mere attraction to children. They can only be blamed for acting on it, because that's where choice comes into play. The reason they are blamed is that children are incapable of consenting to sexual relations with an adult. In contrast, homosexual relationships are constructed as being between two consenting adults, much like heterosexual relationships. For this reason, there is no cause for denying homosexuals the right to marry. And the idea that "there are bigger problems to solve" is absurd. We should fix every problem as we encounter it. Just because there are kids starving in Africa doesn't mean we shouldn't abolish slavery back at home.
Marriage is never a right, it's a privilege. Stop implying that I'm a homophobic just because I don't fully agree with all this stuff. Also that analogy is retarded. slavery isn't a first world problem.
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On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me.
You must not know seth mcfarlane very well then.
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On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:
EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings.
The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?"
When you define yourself as LGB you are defining yourself as a sexual being, and framing the conversation that way. People tend to passively accept the frames presented to them by the speaker, so as the speaker it's really up to you to bring up the topic from a different viewpoint if you want different reactions from people. As an example, consider the difference between the following two statements
"I'm gay, and I want to be able to marry the person I love."
"I want to marry the person I love, even though we are the same gender."
The majority of current LGB rhetoric says something more along the lines of the former, using sexually-charged terms like LGB; it's not really surprising that you're having this issue.
Transgender, at least to me, doesn't really evoke the same reaction of sexuality because it is more a statement of gender identity than sexual orientation.
P.S. Good talk on the power of framing, if you want to dive deeper http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1015694/Concrete-Practices-to-Be-a
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On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me.
Seth McFarlane is one of the most bigoted people around, not much of a surprise.
And no niko non-hetero people did not have equal rights from the start and bitching for equal rights isn't a first-world problem, it's mostly in 2nd and 3rd world countries where homosexuality is still a crime and gays still get beat in the streets and things like that.
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On March 11 2013 03:17 nikonikonii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:06 Shiori wrote:On March 11 2013 02:58 nikonikonii wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. Pedos say pedophilia isn't about sex either. In before I'm told i'm a bigot etc etc. Pedophilia isn't immoral in itself; one can't be blamed for mere attraction to children. They can only be blamed for acting on it, because that's where choice comes into play. The reason they are blamed is that children are incapable of consenting to sexual relations with an adult. In contrast, homosexual relationships are constructed as being between two consenting adults, much like heterosexual relationships. For this reason, there is no cause for denying homosexuals the right to marry. And the idea that "there are bigger problems to solve" is absurd. We should fix every problem as we encounter it. Just because there are kids starving in Africa doesn't mean we shouldn't abolish slavery back at home. Marriage is never a right, it's a privilege. Stop implying that I'm a homophobic just because I don't fully agree with all this stuff. Also that analogy is retarded. slavery isn't a first world problem.
I didn't imply you're a bigot.
Okay, why should homosexuals be denied the "privilege" of marrying whomever they want?
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Also by the way slavery is a first world problem still as well, it's just kept behind closed doors these days. Everything you're saying niko is actually the opposite.
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On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage.
The family guy episode was fucking terrible. It was probably worse in terms of influencing the public's opinion about transsexuals than an episode of Jerry Springer. Keep in mind we are at the point now where most of the gay/lesbian stereotypes are really starting to be debunked. There are prominent, super-popular gay and lesbian celebrities (in particular NPH and Ellen). Gay/Lesbian characters are starting to be treated normally and respectfully on telivision. There are many legislators, in America and around the world who are openly gay or lesbian. Movies like Milk, or even Brokeback Mountain have gained public acceptance, and there are more of those types of movies coming out (which is definitely a good thing).
So if some random member of the public is exposed to a crude offensive joke, there are plenty of positive, realistic examples both in real life (people they know) and media to refute it.
When it comes to transsexuals, there are very very few trans* quasi-celebs, In fact the only one I can think of the top of my head is Chaz Bono, and he's not particularly famous or popular. There are no openly transsexual (that I'm aware of) legislators at any level in North America. The only popular movies/shows I can think of mentioning trans people have been things like Ace Ventura (Einhorn is a man!??), the Drew Carey show (40 year old bald guy crossdressing for laughs), Family guy (mentioned above), and Jerry Springer (and don't even get me started on how fucked up that show is, and what it does for trans people).
So, again, if a random member of the public is exposed to a crude offensive joke about a trans person, there are almost no positive or realistic examples in either real life (Many are in the closet or stealth, and there just aren't that many trans people in general) to counter it. It's bad enough, that when I was younger (up all the way until adulthood really), I thought that all trans people were those stereotypes, that all trans people were crazy and deluded, and hyper feminine and drag queens and 'trannys'. And to be honest, many of the trans people I know felt the same way too.
The jokes like family guy wouldn't bother me so much if that wasn't the main (almost only) form of exposure trans people get. It legitimizes humiliating and laughing at trans people, and there is almost no popular media that denounces that behavior.
And that is why the episode was so offensive.
On March 11 2013 03:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me. Seth McFarlane is one of the most bigoted people around, not much of a surprise. And no niko non-hetero people did not have equal rights from the start and bitching for equal rights isn't a first-world problem, it's mostly in 2nd and 3rd world countries where homosexuality is still a crime and gays still get beat in the streets and things like that.
And you have to admit that the throwing up because he kissed a "man" all comes back to homophobia. It is in the interest of both gay and trans people to push back against these portrayals.
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On March 11 2013 03:25 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:17 nikonikonii wrote:On March 11 2013 03:06 Shiori wrote:On March 11 2013 02:58 nikonikonii wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. Pedos say pedophilia isn't about sex either. In before I'm told i'm a bigot etc etc. Pedophilia isn't immoral in itself; one can't be blamed for mere attraction to children. They can only be blamed for acting on it, because that's where choice comes into play. The reason they are blamed is that children are incapable of consenting to sexual relations with an adult. In contrast, homosexual relationships are constructed as being between two consenting adults, much like heterosexual relationships. For this reason, there is no cause for denying homosexuals the right to marry. And the idea that "there are bigger problems to solve" is absurd. We should fix every problem as we encounter it. Just because there are kids starving in Africa doesn't mean we shouldn't abolish slavery back at home. Marriage is never a right, it's a privilege. Stop implying that I'm a homophobic just because I don't fully agree with all this stuff. Also that analogy is retarded. slavery isn't a first world problem. I didn't imply you're a bigot. Okay, why should homosexuals be denied the "privilege" of marrying whomever they want?
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority.
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On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me.
Really? Bigoted? So now we have to be cool with having sex with transgendered people to not be a bigot?
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On March 11 2013 03:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me. Seth McFarlane is one of the most bigoted people around, not much of a surprise. And no niko non-hetero people did not have equal rights from the start and bitching for equal rights isn't a first-world problem, it's mostly in 2nd and 3rd world countries where homosexuality is still a crime and gays still get beat in the streets and things like that.
How is Seth McFarlane one of the most bigoted people "around"?
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On March 11 2013 03:29 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. The family guy episode was fucking terrible. It was probably worse in terms of influencing the public's opinion about transsexuals than an episode of Jerry Springer. Keep in mind we are at the point now where most of the gay/lesbian stereotypes are really starting to be debunked. There are prominent, super-popular gay and lesbian celebrities (in particular NPH and Ellen). Gay/Lesbian characters are starting to be treated normally and respectfully on telivision. There are many legislators, in America and around the world who are openly gay or lesbian. Movies like Milk, or even Brokeback Mountain have gained public acceptance, and there are more of those types of movies coming out (which is definitely a good thing). So if some random member of the public is exposed to a crude offensive joke, there are plenty of positive, realistic examples both in real life (people they know) and media to refute it. When it comes to transsexuals, there are very very few trans* quasi-celebs, In fact the only one I can think of the top of my head is Chaz Bono, and he's not particularly famous or popular. There are no openly transsexual (that I'm aware of) legislators at any level in North America. The only popular movies/shows I can think of mentioning trans people have been things like Ace Ventura ( Einhorn is a man!??), the Drew Carey show (40 year old bald guy crossdressing for laughs), Family guy (mentioned above), and Jerry Springer (and don't even get me started on how fucked up that show is, and what it does for trans people). So, again, if a random member of the public is exposed to a crude offensive joke about a trans person, there are almost no positive or realistic examples in either real life (Many are in the closet or stealth, and there just aren't that many trans people in general) to counter it. It's bad enough, that when I was younger (up all the way until adulthood really), I thought that all trans people were those stereotypes, that all trans people were crazy and deluded, and hyper feminine and drag queens and 'trannys'. And to be honest, many of the trans people I know felt the same way too. The jokes like family guy wouldn't bother me so much if that wasn't the main (almost only) form of exposure trans people get. It legitimizes humiliating and laughing at trans people, and there is almost no popular media that denounces that behavior. And that is why the episode was so offensive. Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me. Seth McFarlane is one of the most bigoted people around, not much of a surprise. And no niko non-hetero people did not have equal rights from the start and bitching for equal rights isn't a first-world problem, it's mostly in 2nd and 3rd world countries where homosexuality is still a crime and gays still get beat in the streets and things like that. And you have to admit that the throwing up because he kissed a "man" all comes back to homophobia. It is in the interest of both gay and trans people to push back against these portrayals.
Also, comedy seems to be the most powerful way of expressing change. There are too many people who take George Carlin, Jon Stewart, and pre-FOX Glenn Beck seriously.
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On March 11 2013 03:31 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me. Really? Bigoted? So now we have to be cool with having sex with transgendered people to not be a bigot?
It plays on some fundamental mis-assumptions; that trans women are all straight (like guys), are all trying to trick men into having sex with them, and are not really women.
The fact is, most trans women haven't had SRS. Many don't want to. Believe me, if a trans women is interested in you (and you are interested in her), she's going to tell you before you even get to the bedroom. I personally wouldn't even kiss someone without them knowing (even though, hey, it's just a kiss, stop being so homophobic).
Men seem to see this (and its heavily reinforced by media and societal pressures) as an attack both on their heterosexuality (if that trans woman A over there asks me out, people will think I'm gay!. If I have sex with a trans woman and don't figure it out until later, people will think I'm gay!) and on their masculinity.
It's not about being 'cool' with having sex with a trans woman. That is your choice, and your attraction. It is about it being an unfair and inaccurate representation of trans women that reinforces the expected societal response (throw up because a trans woman touched you), and it delegitimizes trans women and makes them even more open to humiliation and abuse.
Like I said, if there were lots of positive and realistic depictions of trans women and how they date or interact, etc. This wouldn't bother me so much.
On March 11 2013 00:01 shinosai wrote:
As a transgendered person I am a little miffed at how people seem to think LBGT means lesbians, gays, bacon, and tomatoes.
This is absolutely brilliant, btw
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Just wanted to jump in and say that the Family Guy episode wasn't the worst thing ever. They have a reputation for mocking everything and I don't think anyone actually takes them seriously. On the more relevant note, I don't think it's offensive for someone to not want to sleep with trans people either, that's their choice (I don't much want to sleep with Seth McFarlane either  ). I certainly doubt the episode was made with transphobic intentions.
On a personal note, I wouldn't sleep with anyone with bringing it up as I think they have the same right to choose who they sleep with as I do and I think informed consent is kinda important. Yeah, it sucks that it is an issue but it is what it is.
Edit: Though actually fusionsdf's post above mine raises some good points...
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On March 11 2013 03:32 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me. Seth McFarlane is one of the most bigoted people around, not much of a surprise. And no niko non-hetero people did not have equal rights from the start and bitching for equal rights isn't a first-world problem, it's mostly in 2nd and 3rd world countries where homosexuality is still a crime and gays still get beat in the streets and things like that. How is Seth McFarlane one of the most bigoted people "around"?
I'm sorry that his bigotry is mostly against people it's okay to be bigoted against (whites, Christians, Republicans, etc.) so to people like you it's not really bigotry, it's just clever cutting humor. But every once in a while his mask slips and he lets out his real feelings about people it's not okay to be bigoted against (women, transsexuals, etc.).
Sorry you apparently feel so defensive about the man that most of even self-absorbed narcissistic prick-filled Hollywood thinks is a narcissistic self-absorbed prick.
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On March 10 2013 23:37 sephiria wrote:
I find it interesting how this thread is about Gay rights ( LGB =/= LGBT) while the real issue that actually is a problem in most western countrys is not adressed in the slightest. While there is a lot of info in the OP I think this is a non issue like the second poster already stated. We are not in the middle ages and if you tell someone around here you are gay it's like telling what you had for breakfast.
Not around here. There is a MASSIVE percentage of people in many first-world countries who despise gays. It's still an issue in the first world, although I won't deny it's a bigger issue in the third world.
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On March 11 2013 03:29 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. The family guy episode was fucking terrible. It was probably worse in terms of influencing the public's opinion about transsexuals than an episode of Jerry Springer. Keep in mind we are at the point now where most of the gay/lesbian stereotypes are really starting to be debunked. There are prominent, super-popular gay and lesbian celebrities (in particular NPH and Ellen). Gay/Lesbian characters are starting to be treated normally and respectfully on telivision. There are many legislators, in America and around the world who are openly gay or lesbian. Movies like Milk, or even Brokeback Mountain have gained public acceptance, and there are more of those types of movies coming out (which is definitely a good thing). So if some random member of the public is exposed to a crude offensive joke, there are plenty of positive, realistic examples both in real life (people they know) and media to refute it. When it comes to transsexuals, there are very very few trans* quasi-celebs, In fact the only one I can think of the top of my head is Chaz Bono, and he's not particularly famous or popular. There are no openly transsexual (that I'm aware of) legislators at any level in North America. The only popular movies/shows I can think of mentioning trans people have been things like Ace Ventura ( Einhorn is a man!??), the Drew Carey show (40 year old bald guy crossdressing for laughs), Family guy (mentioned above), and Jerry Springer (and don't even get me started on how fucked up that show is, and what it does for trans people). So, again, if a random member of the public is exposed to a crude offensive joke about a trans person, there are almost no positive or realistic examples in either real life (Many are in the closet or stealth, and there just aren't that many trans people in general) to counter it. It's bad enough, that when I was younger (up all the way until adulthood really), I thought that all trans people were those stereotypes, that all trans people were crazy and deluded, and hyper feminine and drag queens and 'trannys'. And to be honest, many of the trans people I know felt the same way too. The jokes like family guy wouldn't bother me so much if that wasn't the main (almost only) form of exposure trans people get. It legitimizes humiliating and laughing at trans people, and there is almost no popular media that denounces that behavior. And that is why the episode was so offensive. Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me. Seth McFarlane is one of the most bigoted people around, not much of a surprise. And no niko non-hetero people did not have equal rights from the start and bitching for equal rights isn't a first-world problem, it's mostly in 2nd and 3rd world countries where homosexuality is still a crime and gays still get beat in the streets and things like that. And you have to admit that the throwing up because he kissed a "man" all comes back to homophobia. It is in the interest of both gay and trans people to push back against these portrayals.
Are you against RuPaul's Drag Race?
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On March 11 2013 03:45 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:32 Roe wrote:On March 11 2013 03:23 DeepElemBlues wrote:On March 11 2013 03:10 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 03:04 EleanorRIgby wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. But speaking about sex and to get off topic with our game of semantics, I would say that today even in the most progressive areas, women and MtF transgendered/transexuals seem to have quite a few problems. Talking from experience, whenever a girl tells me she is bisexual, I never know whether to take her seriously or not because I have seen so many faux bisexuals doing it for attention. On the other hand, there are many girls who are truly bisexual and face mass perversion from many straight males because one of the things they often think about is can they get a threesome? And concerning transgendered individuals, especially ones that get a sex changed, there seems to be a lot of transphobia that exists today, even from gay rights and feminist activists. But the most common transphobia I see with MtF is that transgendered people are trying to "trap" you and give you the "gay" or would you still have sex with the person? The family guy episode with Quagmire's dad is an example of this which was the last straw for me with that show. EDIT - I understand that we are really sexual beings, after all Freud said that whenever he tried to write about love, he would always end up writing about sex because it is impossible not to mention sex. However, one of the biggest obstacles towards acceptance is that people think of us LGBT indivudals as sexual beings. The first questions I often get asked when I tell people I am gay/bi is "Are you the guy or girl?" lol you seriously got offended by family guy? Come on... come to canada if you gays want to get married, first country in the americas to legalize same sex marriage. That one episode, it still portrayed trans as some untouchable. Brian meets a very beautiful and great woman, the two have sex, then Brian finds out that the person was formerly a man and throws up for like 10-20 seconds. And Seth MacFarlane said he would do the same thing if he got in a similar situation. That is pretty bigoted if you ask me. Seth McFarlane is one of the most bigoted people around, not much of a surprise. And no niko non-hetero people did not have equal rights from the start and bitching for equal rights isn't a first-world problem, it's mostly in 2nd and 3rd world countries where homosexuality is still a crime and gays still get beat in the streets and things like that. How is Seth McFarlane one of the most bigoted people "around"? I'm sorry that his bigotry is mostly against people it's okay to be bigoted against (whites, Christians, Republicans, etc.) so to people like you it's not really bigotry, it's just clever cutting humor. But every once in a while his mask slips and he lets out his real feelings about people it's not okay to be bigoted against (women, transsexuals, etc.). Sorry you apparently feel so defensive about the man that most of even self-absorbed narcissistic prick-filled Hollywood thinks is a narcissistic self-absorbed prick.
Woa.
Step back for a minute. You don't even know me. I've asked a question, and unfortunately, for the defensiveness of your own, never got an answer. There's no need to make hyperbolic assumptions.
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On March 11 2013 03:17 nikonikonii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:06 Shiori wrote:On March 11 2013 02:58 nikonikonii wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. Pedos say pedophilia isn't about sex either. In before I'm told i'm a bigot etc etc. Pedophilia isn't immoral in itself; one can't be blamed for mere attraction to children. They can only be blamed for acting on it, because that's where choice comes into play. The reason they are blamed is that children are incapable of consenting to sexual relations with an adult. In contrast, homosexual relationships are constructed as being between two consenting adults, much like heterosexual relationships. For this reason, there is no cause for denying homosexuals the right to marry. And the idea that "there are bigger problems to solve" is absurd. We should fix every problem as we encounter it. Just because there are kids starving in Africa doesn't mean we shouldn't abolish slavery back at home. Marriage is never a right, it's a privilege. Stop implying that I'm a homophobic just because I don't fully agree with all this stuff. Also that analogy is retarded. slavery isn't a first world problem.
Rights are privileges and slavery didnt end, it became the pig law.
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On March 11 2013 03:29 nikonikonii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 03:25 Shiori wrote:On March 11 2013 03:17 nikonikonii wrote:On March 11 2013 03:06 Shiori wrote:On March 11 2013 02:58 nikonikonii wrote:On March 11 2013 02:55 Shiragaku wrote:On March 11 2013 02:31 nikonikonii wrote:
Gay people always had equal rights from the very beginning, what they're asking now (gay marriage) is privilege.
I don't really care if you're a man that's into another man's cock. But I'm pretty sure there are more issues that are needed to be fixed like education, jobs, fight against corruption or starvation if you're from the third world.
Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority. Haha, the first thing you seem to think of when you hear gay rights is sex. That is usually the first thing anti-gay people seem to think about. Pedos say pedophilia isn't about sex either. In before I'm told i'm a bigot etc etc. Pedophilia isn't immoral in itself; one can't be blamed for mere attraction to children. They can only be blamed for acting on it, because that's where choice comes into play. The reason they are blamed is that children are incapable of consenting to sexual relations with an adult. In contrast, homosexual relationships are constructed as being between two consenting adults, much like heterosexual relationships. For this reason, there is no cause for denying homosexuals the right to marry. And the idea that "there are bigger problems to solve" is absurd. We should fix every problem as we encounter it. Just because there are kids starving in Africa doesn't mean we shouldn't abolish slavery back at home. Marriage is never a right, it's a privilege. Stop implying that I'm a homophobic just because I don't fully agree with all this stuff. Also that analogy is retarded. slavery isn't a first world problem. I didn't imply you're a bigot. Okay, why should homosexuals be denied the "privilege" of marrying whomever they want? Show nested quote +Honestly, bitching for gay privilege is just first world problems and not really that much of a priority.
You realize that we can fix multiple problems at once, right? It's not like we're incapable of passing laws regarding people living below the poverty line just because we legalized homosexual marriages.
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EPT
