|
United States44364 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:50 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 05:48 farvacola wrote:On August 08 2013 05:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
Honestly?
I'm messing with you mostly. I like seeing you all squirm.
I have no interest in having sex with men who strike me as being sheltered and wouldn't be cool with who I am. I value myself more than that.
But maybe... just maybe, I'll give it a shot.
We're out there. WOOOoooOOoOOOOOOooooo~....
Seriously though. Y'all should be asking yourselves why you're so invested in this particular topic. It's not like you have personalities that are siren's calls to transsexuals. Relax, bros. The evil trannies looking to rape you don't know where you live. Even if we went and peered into a different home's window every night, it's pretty unlikely we'd be looking into yours.
This whole conversation about a hypothetical situation is absurd. It reminds me of people talking about how trannies just want to use women's restrooms because they're perverted and are looking to rape someone.
Keep letting your fearful imaginations override reality if you want, though. I know that this topic is super serious to you and a planet-wide policy of how to handle these decepticunts needs to be agreed upon as soon as possible. I, for one, salute you and your bravery as you face your internal fears and demons so that you may declare how the rest of us should live so that we can say "that's nice, dear" and decide how to live for ourselves. Keep on assuming that anyone interested in this topic with a different view than you is ignorant, that'll get you really far, I assure you. Also, the fact that you have to resort to putting words like "decepticunts" into your oppositions mouth indicates that it is you doing the squirming. "Decepticunts" comes from an earlier internet meme that also invoked "Estrobots". It's an allusion to the "Transformers" IP and was a joke trying to divide transsexuals into "good" and "evil" ones. Sorry, you didn't get the joke. I'm not saying y'all are ignorant. I'm saying you're afraid. I'm also saying it's funny.
I'm not in the least bit afraid. I view trans women as women and am perfectly willing to fuck them if the situation is appropriate. However if they have not read this post and simply know me as a statistically unremarkable member of society they should work under the assumption that it is likely I do not wish to have sex with a trans women because a considerable portion of society do not. They should also understand that consent to sex with them without disclosure is not consent to sex with someone who may be a trans woman, they are such an incredible outlier it is absurd to argue that the partner has considered the possibility and dismissed it. This means there is undisclosed information which would change the consent to sex that the person not disclosing it knows is likely to be relevant. In that situation, given that ethically you're not trying to simply tick a box that covers you in case of rape accusations, you're actually trying to make sure your partner has a pleasant experience and doesn't feel violated and abused, you tell them.
Ethical conduct in consent is not a matter of just covering yourself so you can argue that technically you did nothing wrong. It is a moral obligation to protect your partner and ensure that everyone has a pleasant experience. There is a very real group of sexual predators, especially in the fetish scene, who play the game sufficiently well not to be branded rapists but leave behind a string of victims because they simply don't care, they view it as not their responsibility. The exact same excuses have been paraded at length by trans people throughout this topic and it does not fly. If the other person doesn't want to have sex with you and you know this then that is the end of it.
Things that aren't relevant to their right to consent
- If your life is hard
- If you think their criteria are dumb
- If you think you meet their criteria but they think you don't but you know better
- If you just wanna get off and not think about that
- If the conversation is difficult
- If you can justify it afterwards with clearly fanciful excuses like "if they cared that much they should have asked on the 0.01% chance that I was".
If you suspect someone doesn't want to have sex with you, and I'm sorry trans people but right now that's statistically significant portion of the population, whether or not you can trick them into it isn't actually relevant. Consent is not a game we play to cover our asses, it is to protect people, if you think you've found a loophole that lets you consensually harm people you're doing it wrong.
Obviously there is no fixed point at which it is reasonable to assume a person has no issue with trans people and wouldn't need to be informed in order for their consent to be meaningful. Likewise there is no fixed proportion of the population that would need to be trans for it to be reasonable to assume that if someone did not wish to have sex with a trans person they would ask every potential partner if they were trans. However, and this is just numbers, trans are extreme outliers who know they are extreme outliers while people who don't want to have sex with trans people are really quite common. In the world as it is today it is reasonable for a trans person to check in order to protect their partner. Not checking while suspecting it would alter consent won't make you legally a rapist, no more than men who violate safe words, but it does make you a predator.
|
On August 08 2013 06:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 05:50 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 05:48 farvacola wrote:On August 08 2013 05:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
Honestly?
I'm messing with you mostly. I like seeing you all squirm.
I have no interest in having sex with men who strike me as being sheltered and wouldn't be cool with who I am. I value myself more than that.
But maybe... just maybe, I'll give it a shot.
We're out there. WOOOoooOOoOOOOOOooooo~....
Seriously though. Y'all should be asking yourselves why you're so invested in this particular topic. It's not like you have personalities that are siren's calls to transsexuals. Relax, bros. The evil trannies looking to rape you don't know where you live. Even if we went and peered into a different home's window every night, it's pretty unlikely we'd be looking into yours.
This whole conversation about a hypothetical situation is absurd. It reminds me of people talking about how trannies just want to use women's restrooms because they're perverted and are looking to rape someone.
Keep letting your fearful imaginations override reality if you want, though. I know that this topic is super serious to you and a planet-wide policy of how to handle these decepticunts needs to be agreed upon as soon as possible. I, for one, salute you and your bravery as you face your internal fears and demons so that you may declare how the rest of us should live so that we can say "that's nice, dear" and decide how to live for ourselves. Keep on assuming that anyone interested in this topic with a different view than you is ignorant, that'll get you really far, I assure you. Also, the fact that you have to resort to putting words like "decepticunts" into your oppositions mouth indicates that it is you doing the squirming. "Decepticunts" comes from an earlier internet meme that also invoked "Estrobots". It's an allusion to the "Transformers" IP and was a joke trying to divide transsexuals into "good" and "evil" ones. Sorry, you didn't get the joke. I'm not saying y'all are ignorant. I'm saying you're afraid. I'm also saying it's funny. + Show Spoiler +I'm not in the least bit afraid. I view trans women as women and am perfectly willing to fuck them if the situation is appropriate. However if they have not read this post and simply know me as a statistically unremarkable member of society they should work under the assumption that it is likely I do not wish to have sex with a trans women because a considerable portion of society do not. They should also understand that consent to sex with them without disclosure is not consent to sex with someone who may be a trans woman, they are such an incredible outlier it is absurd to argue that the partner has considered the possibility and dismissed it. This means there is undisclosed information which would change the consent to sex that the person not disclosing it knows is likely to be relevant. In that situation, given that ethically you're not trying to simply tick a box that covers you in case of rape accusations, you're actually trying to make sure your partner has a pleasant experience and doesn't feel violated and abused, you tell them.
Ethical conduct in consent is not a matter of just covering yourself so you can argue that technically you did nothing wrong. It is a moral obligation to protect your partner and ensure that everyone has a pleasant experience. There is a very real group of sexual predators, especially in the fetish scene, who play the game sufficiently well not to be branded rapists but leave behind a string of victims because they simply don't care, they view it as not their responsibility. The exact same excuses have been paraded at length by trans people throughout this topic and it does not fly. If the other person doesn't want to have sex with you and you know this then that is the end of it.
Things that aren't relevant to their right to consent
- If your life is hard
- If you think their criteria are dumb
- If you think you meet their criteria but they think you don't but you know better
- If you just wanna get off and not think about that
- If the conversation is difficult
- If you can justify it afterwards with clearly fanciful excuses like "if they cared that much they should have asked on the 0.01% chance that I was".
If you suspect someone doesn't want to have sex with you, and I'm sorry trans people but right now that's statistically significant portion of the population, whether or not you can trick them into it isn't actually relevant. Consent is not a game we play to cover our asses, it is to protect people, if you think you've found a loophole that lets you consensually harm people you're doing it wrong.
Obviously there is no fixed point at which it is reasonable to assume a person has no issue with trans people and wouldn't need to be informed in order for their consent to be meaningful. Likewise there is no fixed proportion of the population that would need to be trans for it to be reasonable to assume that if someone did not wish to have sex with a trans person they would ask every potential partner if they were trans. However, and this is just numbers, trans are extreme outliers who know they are extreme outliers while people who don't want to have sex with trans people are really quite common. In the world as it is today it is reasonable for a trans person to check in order to protect their partner. Not checking while suspecting it would alter consent won't make you legally a rapist, no more than men who violate safe words, but it does make you a predator.
I'm glad you have decided how things should be in your world-view as a necessity to cope with your life experience. I'm glad that you have set up rules as to what is relevant or irrelevant.
I also hope that reality conforms to your expectations in an acceptable enough way that you can feel happy and at peace.
I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3
|
United States44364 Posts
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it".
On a related note, rape isn't especially illegal. Not really, not if you know how to play the game, how to select targets. If you're good at it they'll never even report it because they'll know they'll never get a conviction. This is the system you're defending, the one where consent is just lip service, no fucks are given about the wellbeing of your partner.
|
On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it".
Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness?
|
On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness?
Likely no more than your repeated accusations of cowardice.
|
On August 08 2013 06:50 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness? Likely no more than your repeated accusations of cowardice.
There's nothing cowardly about being afraid.
|
United States44364 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness?
You are a predator and you should feel ashamed.
|
On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness?
Not really, just correct in labeling.
|
On August 08 2013 06:51 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:50 farvacola wrote:On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness? Likely no more than your repeated accusations of cowardice. There's nothing cowardly about being afraid.
You're right, there isn't; the coward is the one pointing the finger and turning up their nose.
|
On August 08 2013 06:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness? You are a predator and you should feel ashamed.
I don't.
Also, I don't label myself as a predator or a rapist for that matter.
But you say that I am these things. Possibly with conviction. When you've never actually met me. When all I've done is type and play in this imagination of discussion. It sounds like you've made so many assumptions about what I am really like and that you have ever-hardened your perception of reality and now you are demanding that I accept your interpretation of myself over my own interpretation of myself.
How silly.
|
On August 08 2013 06:54 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:51 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:50 farvacola wrote:On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness? Likely no more than your repeated accusations of cowardice. There's nothing cowardly about being afraid. You're right, there isn't; the coward is the one pointing the finger and turning up their nose.
You're not very good at this game. I don't think I'm pointing a finger as fervently as others in this thread.
|
United States44364 Posts
I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied
I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3
The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you.
Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you.
|
On August 08 2013 06:18 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:16 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 06:11 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 06:07 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 05:48 HunterX11 wrote:On August 08 2013 05:44 DoubleReed wrote:
Could someone summarize what the conversation is about? I'm lost.
Why does a transgendered person have to inform transgenderedness before having sex? I mean, I think that's weird, but that's just not what informed consent refers to. I don't have to inform people that I'm Jewish just in case they're an anti-Semite or something. Actually someone already DID make the argument you should inform them you're Jewish in case they're a Nazi and you are raping them by engaging them in sex with a Jew without their knowledge  Well, during world war 2 that could as well be a death sentence to them (Germans didn't treat people who associated with Jews too nicely).  it is the opinion of the majority here that the nazi has a right to an informed consent, despite their obviously stupid prejudices, therefore the jews options get worse, and we protect the rights of the stupid majority at the expense of an oppressed minority. You should reread what KwarK had to say about this, he even came up with a formula IIRC. I'm quite sure i have his message correct. I did say while its reasonable to assume you are sleeping with a nazi.
I don't see it in your post, but anyway, in that case - yes, that would be immoral. Why you'd want to sleep with a nazi as a Jew is beyond me, though. Anyway, the example is rather stupid because having limited options in terms of casual sex should be the least of your concern in such a situation/society.
|
On August 08 2013 06:58 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:52 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness? You are a predator and you should feel ashamed. I don't. Also, I don't label myself as a predator or a rapist for that matter. But you say that I am these things. Possibly with conviction. When you've never actually met me. When all I've done is type and play in this imagination of discussion. It sounds like you've made so many assumptions about what I am really like and that you have ever-hardened your perception of reality and now you are demanding that I accept your interpretation of myself over my own interpretation of myself. How silly.
So now you just strawman away by claiming that he has never meet you and can't know anything about you? Even after spending pages and pages expression your opinion on the matter and explaining to us how privilege works? I guess you don't want to play the game any more. Or just know your losing.
|
This morning I went out to breakfast for blueberry pancakes. I asked for blueberry pancakes, I was served something that looked exactly like blueberry pancakes, smelled exactly like blueberry pancakes, tasted exactly like blueberry pancakes, and even the texture was right! They were delicious pancakes. Some of the yummiest I've ever had.
Then I found out through a friend of a friend that the blueberry pancakes I ate were identified at birth as strawberry pancakes.
I feel raped. Whoever served me those pancakes is a predator.
|
On August 08 2013 06:51 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:50 farvacola wrote:On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness? Likely no more than your repeated accusations of cowardice. There's nothing cowardly about being afraid.
Just don't expect people here to pity you if you get beaten up.
|
On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you.
Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being.
I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels.
My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now?
The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment.
I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination.
Cool. I can live with that.
|
United States44364 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:09 Pierrot wrote:
This morning I went out to breakfast for blueberry pancakes. I asked for blueberry pancakes, I was served something that looked exactly like blueberry pancakes, smelled exactly like blueberry pancakes, tasted exactly like blueberry pancakes, and even the texture was right! They were delicious pancakes. Some of the yummiest I've ever had.
Then I found out through a friend of a friend that the blueberry pancakes I ate were identified at birth as strawberry pancakes.
I feel raped. Whoever served me those pancakes is a predator.
A) Sex and pancakes aren't the same thing
B) If you don't mind whether pancakes are what you think they are or not, as long as they taste the same, that's your personal preference but does not give you the right to choose for someone else
C) Consent is more relevant to sex than pancakes
Don't be an idiot, posting such dumb shit just wastes the time of the reader.
|
On August 08 2013 07:09 Pierrot wrote:
This morning I went out to breakfast for blueberry pancakes. I asked for blueberry pancakes, I was served something that looked exactly like blueberry pancakes, smelled exactly like blueberry pancakes, tasted exactly like blueberry pancakes, and even the texture was right! They were delicious pancakes. Some of the yummiest I've ever had.
Then I found out through a friend of a friend that the blueberry pancakes I ate were identified at birth as strawberry pancakes.
I feel raped. Whoever served me those pancakes is a predator.
Or to put it another way, you are allergic to strawberries. Now your dead and that person is guilty of manslaughter.
Rape through omission is still makes you a terrible person, even if they enjoyed it at the time.
.
|
On August 08 2013 07:10 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 06:51 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:50 farvacola wrote:On August 08 2013 06:49 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:
Just like the rest of the predators. I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're literally saying "yep, that's what I do, I see no issue with it". Does labeling me a predator reinforce your feelings of righteousness? Likely no more than your repeated accusations of cowardice. There's nothing cowardly about being afraid. Just don't expect people here to pity you if you get beaten up.
I have no desire for pity. Being valued equally as any other person for purposes of dispensing justice would be kind of nice, I guess, but I don't particularly care. If someone beats me up, that's their problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
