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On August 08 2013 07:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. "I don't care what happens, as long as I get what I want. What happens afterwords is their problem" Said by every guy who slept with a drunk girl or lied to one to get her into bed.
i really didnt read that from what they said
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On August 08 2013 07:31 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:24 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:22 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. thats a little far.... maybe if they asked if you were a trans person and you lied about it. The scenario implies that the trans person is aware that the person does not want to sleep with someone who is transgendered. That's the scenario? That's not where I'm working from.
Its not like it matters to you. You don't care if they would have a problem with you being transgender or not. Your just like the guy who can't wait for another night for his date to be sober or doesn't inform the girl that he isn't a member of the band.
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On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination.
Same reasoning can be applied to defend rape by impersonation...
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On August 08 2013 07:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:31 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:24 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:22 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. thats a little far.... maybe if they asked if you were a trans person and you lied about it. The scenario implies that the trans person is aware that the person does not want to sleep with someone who is transgendered. That's the scenario? That's not where I'm working from. Its not like it matters to you. You don't care if they would have a problem with you being transgender or not. Your just like the guy who can't wait for another night for his date to be sober or doesn't inform the girl that he isn't a member of the band.
not like the first one at all but i guess kinda like the second one... if it was reasonable to assume that they assumed that you were in a band.
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United States42973 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination.
Stop painting me as someone afraid of sex with a trans person. I am not.
The numbers are a fact. It'd be easier for you if they weren't, but they are, and you know they are and it makes your behaviour inexcusable. There is a colossal imbalance in the information between the parties. Your partner knows that he shares criteria with, for the purpose of argument, 50% of people. You know you have a condition which affects roughly 0.01% of people. This means you are going into this with a 50% chance of violating someone if you do nothing whereas they are going into this with a 0.01% chance of being violated. If you know these numbers (hypothetical, just for the example) and you go "fuck it, that's their problem if they didn't want to have sex with a trans person", you're a predator. You know there is a reasonable chance that your partner does not want this but because you do want it you simply choose not to address that.
This isn't a "I shouldn't have to" or a "it's not fair" or anything else. Whining about how you shouldn't have to doesn't change shit, you're not trying to tick boxes, you're trying to protect the individuals involved from something they do not want. This is a moral obligation.
Do you understand that sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you (but doesn't know) is a bad thing? Can you at least get that?
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On August 08 2013 07:34 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Same reasoning can be applied to defend rape by impersonation...
well no. in that situation they are strangers
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On August 08 2013 07:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:31 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:24 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:22 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. thats a little far.... maybe if they asked if you were a trans person and you lied about it. The scenario implies that the trans person is aware that the person does not want to sleep with someone who is transgendered. That's the scenario? That's not where I'm working from. Its not like it matters to you. You don't care if they would have a problem with you being transgender or not. Your just like the guy who can't wait for another night for his date to be sober or doesn't inform the girl that he isn't a member of the band.
I do care, but my assumption is that they don't.
Stop asking me to assume that each of my partners actually hates me deep down and I'll take this conversation more seriously... maybe.
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On August 08 2013 07:36 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:34 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Same reasoning can be applied to defend rape by impersonation... well no. in that situation they are strangers
Or, in other words, not disclosing information upon which the consent hinges...
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On August 08 2013 07:34 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Same reasoning can be applied to defend rape by impersonation...
I fail to see the relation. "I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups" does not apply to rape by impersonation...
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On August 08 2013 07:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:34 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:31 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:24 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:22 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:
I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied
[quote]
The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you.
Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. thats a little far.... maybe if they asked if you were a trans person and you lied about it. The scenario implies that the trans person is aware that the person does not want to sleep with someone who is transgendered. That's the scenario? That's not where I'm working from. Its not like it matters to you. You don't care if they would have a problem with you being transgender or not. Your just like the guy who can't wait for another night for his date to be sober or doesn't inform the girl that he isn't a member of the band. I do care, but my assumption is that they don't. Stop asking me to assume that each of my partners actually hates me deep down and I'll take this conversation more seriously... maybe.
But what if you got the impression they would be uncomfortable. What do you do then?
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United States42973 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:34 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:31 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:24 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:22 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:
I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied
[quote]
The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you.
Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. thats a little far.... maybe if they asked if you were a trans person and you lied about it. The scenario implies that the trans person is aware that the person does not want to sleep with someone who is transgendered. That's the scenario? That's not where I'm working from. Its not like it matters to you. You don't care if they would have a problem with you being transgender or not. Your just like the guy who can't wait for another night for his date to be sober or doesn't inform the girl that he isn't a member of the band. I do care, but my assumption is that they don't. Stop asking me to assume that each of my partners actually hates me deep down and I'll take this conversation more seriously... maybe.
It's not that they hate you, but you should assume a good number of them would not like to have sex with a trans person (unless otherwise indicated by context, if it's a random representative sample, a lot of them don't). They'd only hate you if they read your posts here.
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On August 08 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Stop painting me as someone afraid of sex with a trans person. I am not. The numbers are a fact. It'd be easier for you if they weren't, but they are, and you know they are and it makes your behaviour inexcusable. There is a colossal imbalance in the information between the parties. Your partner knows that he shares criteria with, for the purpose of argument, 50% of people. You know you have a condition which affects roughly 0.01% of people. This means you are going into this with a 50% chance of violating someone if you do nothing whereas they are going into this with a 0.01% chance of being violated. If you know these numbers (hypothetical, just for the example) and you go "fuck it, that's their problem if they didn't want to have sex with a trans person", you're a predator. You know there is a reasonable chance that your partner does not want this but because you do want it you simply choose not to address that. This isn't a "I shouldn't have to" or a "it's not fair" or anything else. Whining about how you shouldn't have to doesn't chance shit, you're not trying to tick boxes, you're trying to protect the individuals involved from something they do not want. This is a moral obligation. Do you understand that sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you (but doesn't know) is a bad thing? Can you at least get that?
You're taking this too personally. I've never said that you, personally, are afraid to have sex with a trans person. If this was personal, I know *I* wouldn't want to have sex with you even if you for some reason wanted to have it with me.
I get it if they clarify first. If they already have their mouth on my genitals or their penis in me, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they want it.
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On August 08 2013 07:37 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:34 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Same reasoning can be applied to defend rape by impersonation... I fail to see the relation. "I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups" does not apply to rape by impersonation...
It's pretty simple. How could you potentially know that they would not consent to have sex with you, had they known that you were not the person you seemed to be? It's only a reasonable assumption, right?
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On August 08 2013 07:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:34 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:31 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:24 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:22 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being.
I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels.
My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now?
The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment.
I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination.
Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. thats a little far.... maybe if they asked if you were a trans person and you lied about it. The scenario implies that the trans person is aware that the person does not want to sleep with someone who is transgendered. That's the scenario? That's not where I'm working from. Its not like it matters to you. You don't care if they would have a problem with you being transgender or not. Your just like the guy who can't wait for another night for his date to be sober or doesn't inform the girl that he isn't a member of the band. I do care, but my assumption is that they don't. Stop asking me to assume that each of my partners actually hates me deep down and I'll take this conversation more seriously... maybe. But what if you got the impression they would be uncomfortable. What do you do then?
Then I don't have sex with them. I don't ignore cues. I actually do listen to the things people say.
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United States42973 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:40 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Stop painting me as someone afraid of sex with a trans person. I am not. The numbers are a fact. It'd be easier for you if they weren't, but they are, and you know they are and it makes your behaviour inexcusable. There is a colossal imbalance in the information between the parties. Your partner knows that he shares criteria with, for the purpose of argument, 50% of people. You know you have a condition which affects roughly 0.01% of people. This means you are going into this with a 50% chance of violating someone if you do nothing whereas they are going into this with a 0.01% chance of being violated. If you know these numbers (hypothetical, just for the example) and you go "fuck it, that's their problem if they didn't want to have sex with a trans person", you're a predator. You know there is a reasonable chance that your partner does not want this but because you do want it you simply choose not to address that. This isn't a "I shouldn't have to" or a "it's not fair" or anything else. Whining about how you shouldn't have to doesn't chance shit, you're not trying to tick boxes, you're trying to protect the individuals involved from something they do not want. This is a moral obligation. Do you understand that sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you (but doesn't know) is a bad thing? Can you at least get that? You're taking this too personally. I've never said that you, personally, are afraid to have sex with a trans person. If this was personal, I know *I* wouldn't want to have sex with you even if you for some reason wanted to have it with me. I get it if they clarify first. If they already have their mouth on my genitals or their penis in me, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they want it.
There is no basis for that assumption. If their reason for not wanting it is you being trans then proximity to your genitals doesn't give them any more information about your trans status.
Furthermore not telling them, waiting for them to get their mouth on your genitals and then concluding that it's fine is exactly the kind of loophole ticking the boxes attitude to consent that I keep trying to explain to you is predatory.
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On August 08 2013 07:40 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Stop painting me as someone afraid of sex with a trans person. I am not. The numbers are a fact. It'd be easier for you if they weren't, but they are, and you know they are and it makes your behaviour inexcusable. There is a colossal imbalance in the information between the parties. Your partner knows that he shares criteria with, for the purpose of argument, 50% of people. You know you have a condition which affects roughly 0.01% of people. This means you are going into this with a 50% chance of violating someone if you do nothing whereas they are going into this with a 0.01% chance of being violated. If you know these numbers (hypothetical, just for the example) and you go "fuck it, that's their problem if they didn't want to have sex with a trans person", you're a predator. You know there is a reasonable chance that your partner does not want this but because you do want it you simply choose not to address that. This isn't a "I shouldn't have to" or a "it's not fair" or anything else. Whining about how you shouldn't have to doesn't chance shit, you're not trying to tick boxes, you're trying to protect the individuals involved from something they do not want. This is a moral obligation. Do you understand that sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you (but doesn't know) is a bad thing? Can you at least get that? You're taking this too personally. I've never said that you, personally, are afraid to have sex with a trans person. If this was personal, I know *I* wouldn't want to have sex with you even if you for some reason wanted to have it with me. I get it if they clarify first. If they already have their mouth on my genitals or their penis in me, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they want it.
This is the definition of slut shaming.....particularly sinc you keep referencing clubs and places where alcohol and drugs are common.
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On August 08 2013 07:41 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:37 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 07:34 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Same reasoning can be applied to defend rape by impersonation... I fail to see the relation. "I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups" does not apply to rape by impersonation... It's pretty simple. How could you potentially know that they would not consent to have sex with you, had they known that you were not the person you seemed to be? It's only a reasonable assumption, right?
Uhh... what? That's not what rape by impersonation is. What exactly do you mean "not the person you seemed to be"? How is the trans-person not the person they seemed to be? I don't understand. Please explain.
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On August 08 2013 07:42 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:40 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Stop painting me as someone afraid of sex with a trans person. I am not. The numbers are a fact. It'd be easier for you if they weren't, but they are, and you know they are and it makes your behaviour inexcusable. There is a colossal imbalance in the information between the parties. Your partner knows that he shares criteria with, for the purpose of argument, 50% of people. You know you have a condition which affects roughly 0.01% of people. This means you are going into this with a 50% chance of violating someone if you do nothing whereas they are going into this with a 0.01% chance of being violated. If you know these numbers (hypothetical, just for the example) and you go "fuck it, that's their problem if they didn't want to have sex with a trans person", you're a predator. You know there is a reasonable chance that your partner does not want this but because you do want it you simply choose not to address that. This isn't a "I shouldn't have to" or a "it's not fair" or anything else. Whining about how you shouldn't have to doesn't chance shit, you're not trying to tick boxes, you're trying to protect the individuals involved from something they do not want. This is a moral obligation. Do you understand that sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you (but doesn't know) is a bad thing? Can you at least get that? You're taking this too personally. I've never said that you, personally, are afraid to have sex with a trans person. If this was personal, I know *I* wouldn't want to have sex with you even if you for some reason wanted to have it with me. I get it if they clarify first. If they already have their mouth on my genitals or their penis in me, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they want it. There is no basis for that assumption. If their reason for not wanting it is you being trans then proximity to your genitals doesn't give them any more information about your trans status. Furthermore not telling them, waiting for them to get their mouth on your genitals and then concluding that it's fine is exactly the kind of loophole ticking the boxes attitude to consent that I keep trying to explain to you is predatory.
Maybe you didn't see my post about my Friday night.
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United States42973 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:42 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:40 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:29 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:11 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:01 KwarK wrote:I'm making assumptions based upon your reply. I explained how the behaviour was predatory and you then replied I'll be doing what is conducive to my happiness, too. <3 The exact same "fuck them, I got mine, who cares if they didn't want it" mentality as the rest of the predators. So yes, I assume you're a predator because you have presented yourself as one. You don't get to then cry "you don't know me!", I know you from your posting, if a mistake was made then it was by you. Unfortunately there is no surgery to make people pass as a decent human being. Instead you need lessons like "don't fuck people who don't wanna fuck" drilled into you by experience. This is what I'm trying to do to you. Now you're suggesting an even more general concept of me not being a decent human being. I'm sorry that your interpretation of reality isn't quite secure enough that you need to shore it up with ever-more grandiose negative labels. My stance is that I refuse to be responsible for someone else's unrealities. Prejudice and bigotry are learned behaviors. Oddly enough, the common consensus is that prejudiced and bigoted person's feelings "should" (that magic word) be respected. Are prejudiced and bigoted people more qualifying as "decent human beings" than I am now? The reality in the discussed topic is that someone enjoys a very real experience with someone else. However, the unreality of their learned prejudices and fears has so much more importance placed upon it that it can override and negate that enjoyment. I am a predator because I prefer reality over imagination. Cool. I can live with that. See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care. It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. No, I don't know their criteria for consent because they haven't told me. I will state, however, that if they are groping me and grinding their penis into my ass, it is not my responsibility to be the one who comes out of the moment to clarify that they know what they are doing. I can't stress this enough: I am not responsible for knowing someone else's hangups. The numbers can be invoked all you want. It's fundamentally dishonest and unequal to place the responsibility of determining a person's understanding and interpretation of reality on me especially when the determination of what is relevant and irrelevant is arbitrarily determined by each individual. If there is honest equality, each individual is responsible for declaring their own hangups. "Reasonable assumption" has the same fallacies of "common sense." My interest is reality. Your's is protecting your imagination. Stop painting me as someone afraid of sex with a trans person. I am not. The numbers are a fact. It'd be easier for you if they weren't, but they are, and you know they are and it makes your behaviour inexcusable. There is a colossal imbalance in the information between the parties. Your partner knows that he shares criteria with, for the purpose of argument, 50% of people. You know you have a condition which affects roughly 0.01% of people. This means you are going into this with a 50% chance of violating someone if you do nothing whereas they are going into this with a 0.01% chance of being violated. If you know these numbers (hypothetical, just for the example) and you go "fuck it, that's their problem if they didn't want to have sex with a trans person", you're a predator. You know there is a reasonable chance that your partner does not want this but because you do want it you simply choose not to address that. This isn't a "I shouldn't have to" or a "it's not fair" or anything else. Whining about how you shouldn't have to doesn't chance shit, you're not trying to tick boxes, you're trying to protect the individuals involved from something they do not want. This is a moral obligation. Do you understand that sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you (but doesn't know) is a bad thing? Can you at least get that? You're taking this too personally. I've never said that you, personally, are afraid to have sex with a trans person. If this was personal, I know *I* wouldn't want to have sex with you even if you for some reason wanted to have it with me. I get it if they clarify first. If they already have their mouth on my genitals or their penis in me, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they want it. This is the definition of slut shaming.....
Wow, that too. Holy shit she's failing as a passable human being tonight. "They did X so I concluded from that that they obviously wanted Y, even though they could reasonably have not wanted Y and I had no basis to conclude that, so I just went ahead and did it anyway".
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On August 08 2013 07:41 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:38 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:34 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:31 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:24 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 07:22 ComaDose wrote:On August 08 2013 07:19 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:17 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:14 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
See, this is it. This is why you're a predator. It's not that you don't know other people can have preferences which impact their consent with you, you simply think you know better, you just don't care.
It doesn't matter whether they're afraid that you're a man any more than it would matter if they were afraid you were a bear, if someone doesn't want to have sex with you then you don't get to make their decision for them. It's that fucking simple. You're a predator. Bolded for emphasis. Who better knows ourselves than ourselves? Your reality is not mine. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. It doesn't matter what you know. If someone doesn't want to have sex with you because they think you're a bear, even though it's a ridiculous assumption, you don't get to simply force yourself on them because you know you're not. How are you not getting this? You keep repeating "I know their criteria for consent better than they do", it's no different from "she said "no" but I knew she wanted it". Literally no different. thats a little far.... maybe if they asked if you were a trans person and you lied about it. The scenario implies that the trans person is aware that the person does not want to sleep with someone who is transgendered. That's the scenario? That's not where I'm working from. Its not like it matters to you. You don't care if they would have a problem with you being transgender or not. Your just like the guy who can't wait for another night for his date to be sober or doesn't inform the girl that he isn't a member of the band. I do care, but my assumption is that they don't. Stop asking me to assume that each of my partners actually hates me deep down and I'll take this conversation more seriously... maybe. But what if you got the impression they would be uncomfortable. What do you do then? Then I don't have sex with them. I don't ignore cues. I actually do listen to the things people say.
And we're supposed to believe you, when you've claimed several times that you don't actually give a crap about their consent criteria and would have sex with them regardless?
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EPT
