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On March 11 2013 21:53 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 18:03 mdb wrote:
I think that transgenders definitely should identify themselves before kissing, having sex or having any sexual activity with other man. Hereby I present you the three laws of the transgenders :
1. A transgender must not kiss, fuck or hug another man without identifying himself.
2. A transgender must respect the fact that most men don`t like to engage in sexual activities with another man, even though the other man may have pussy.
3. A transgender must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. THEY ARE NOT A MAN. What does it take to beat this reality into your head? I've met men more feminine than women, women more masculine than men, transgender people who run the full spectrum themselves. What you are asking them to do is not only bigoted but also shows how insecure you are about your own sexuality. It's pitiful. Pathetic, even.
I was really really hoping he was joking sigh.
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On March 11 2013 15:19 FabledIntegral wrote:
My god, you've got to be kidding. You've done more twisting than the rest of the people in this thread combined with an insinuation like that. The comparisons were in every way valid not because a transgender is anything at all like a criminal, murderer, or drug dealer, but because the discussion was on physical vs nonphysical attraction, and those examples are incredibly easy to get a point across on a nonphysical example.
It was clear that someone was making the claim that you're a bigot if you stop liking someone (or claim to no longer be attracted to someone) because of nonphysical reasons such as transgender. The "extreme" examples used were easy counterpoints to THAT argument, not a comparison saying they are the same thing.
They were used as counterpoints because they were the only counterpoints the people desperately trying to prove they weren't transphobic could find as a basis for comparison. The fact that they had to resort to those phrases is exactly the point - every single comparison implies malice as an intent on the part of the transgender person to not inform the other in advance of doing anything.
Personally, I would identify myself as trans, not immediately, but before it got to sex. However, every trans person has the right to have sex without divulging their entire life history.
On March 11 2013 19:13 Kickboxer wrote:
As a moderately tolerant person (has gay acquaintances but not close friends, never ridicules gay people but would be horrified if future child turns out to be one) I think the main problem of the LGBT movement in western countries is their insistence on being perceived as "normal" as opposed to a group of people with a serious albeit 100% harmless defect.
It is a lot easier to deal with an uncomfortable issue if you frame it that way, I can easily see gay people in the same light as autistic people, or people obsessed with something I don't understand, or small people. A human being with a deviation they cannot control, something that doesn't concern me and I can easily embrace. But I can never agree that being gay is normal, or that we are all a little gay deep inside as the LGBT agenda seems to suggest, and I can sense myself becoming hostile when someone is trying to push that concept onto me because I simply do not agree with it in a fundamental manner.
This is bigotry disguised as tolerance, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the thread will tell you that too. These were acceptable views... in the 1980s.
Also, no reasonable gay movement is trying to force the idea that "everyone is a little gay deep inside". That's entirely counterproductive to the argument that being gay is something you are born with.
On March 11 2013 19:13 Kickboxer wrote:
When it comes to transgendered people, they need to understand their issue is simply an extreme one (to put it mildly) on the scale of things difficult to accept. Just like most people avoid hysterical women or men who solve matters through physical violence (we all know how much more common rednecks are compared to trannies), you guys and your unique set of issues are just too much to handle for your average Joe. It would probably be very beneficial to the transgendered community to date only other transgenders, since they understand each other well and embrace each other by default. Do transgender people actively seek out other transgendered people? And if no, why not?
How would you like being told that instead of dating roughly 50% of the population, you must now choose your dates from only ~0.025% of the population (1 in 2000 newborns, assuming 50/50 MtF/FtM)?
A lot of transgender people do marry other transgenders (you can only cope with being left rejected at dates so many times), but even more marry normally.
On March 11 2013 21:53 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 18:03 mdb wrote:
I think that transgenders definitely should identify themselves before kissing, having sex or having any sexual activity with other man. Hereby I present you the three laws of the transgenders :
1. A transgender must not kiss, fuck or hug another man without identifying himself.
2. A transgender must respect the fact that most men don`t like to engage in sexual activities with another man, even though the other man may have pussy.
3. A transgender must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. THEY ARE NOT A MAN. What does it take to beat this reality into your head? I've met men more feminine than women, women more masculine than men, transgender people who run the full spectrum themselves. What you are asking them to do is not only bigoted but also shows how insecure you are about your own sexuality. It's pitiful. Pathetic, even.
I'm pretty sure his post was sarcastic, referencing the Three Laws of Robotics. Through this, he implies that transgenders are no longer treated as human beings at all and people expect them to abide by a strict set of principles separate from the rest of humanity.
That's what I hope he meant anyway because otherwise, yeah, he's stupid as hell.
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On March 11 2013 21:53 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 18:03 mdb wrote:
I think that transgenders definitely should identify themselves before kissing, having sex or having any sexual activity with other man. Hereby I present you the three laws of the transgenders :
1. A transgender must not kiss, fuck or hug another man without identifying himself.
2. A transgender must respect the fact that most men don`t like to engage in sexual activities with another man, even though the other man may have pussy.
3. A transgender must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. THEY ARE NOT A MAN. What does it take to beat this reality into your head? I've met men more feminine than women, women more masculine than men, transgender people who run the full spectrum themselves. What you are asking them to do is not only bigoted but also shows how insecure you are about your own sexuality. It's pitiful. Pathetic, even.
I blame transgenders for my insecure sexuality too. Come on man, instead of finding way of easily increasing penis size, all the medical research these days seems to be centered around exactly the opposite.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 11 2013 22:08 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 21:53 Evangelist wrote:On March 11 2013 18:03 mdb wrote:
I think that transgenders definitely should identify themselves before kissing, having sex or having any sexual activity with other man. Hereby I present you the three laws of the transgenders :
1. A transgender must not kiss, fuck or hug another man without identifying himself.
2. A transgender must respect the fact that most men don`t like to engage in sexual activities with another man, even though the other man may have pussy.
3. A transgender must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. THEY ARE NOT A MAN. What does it take to beat this reality into your head? I've met men more feminine than women, women more masculine than men, transgender people who run the full spectrum themselves. What you are asking them to do is not only bigoted but also shows how insecure you are about your own sexuality. It's pitiful. Pathetic, even. I blame transgenders for my insecure sexuality too. Come on man, instead of finding way of easily increasing penis size, all the medical research these days seems to be centered around exactly the opposite.
I was hoping you were being sarcastic and I would have to retract my statement. It is both disappointing and expected that you weren't.
Besides if sex was as important to you as you claim you'd know that penis girth is more important than all round penis size, both for men and women and that an attentive moderately endowed man is a far more entertaining lover in the long run than a big dicked moron.
Think about that. The fact you are clearly obsessed with penis size suggests you have issues of your own. Don't impart them onto others. What, are you afraid that the transexual woman you're screwing had a bigger dick than you before she transitioned?
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On March 11 2013 22:08 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 21:53 Evangelist wrote:On March 11 2013 18:03 mdb wrote:
I think that transgenders definitely should identify themselves before kissing, having sex or having any sexual activity with other man. Hereby I present you the three laws of the transgenders :
1. A transgender must not kiss, fuck or hug another man without identifying himself.
2. A transgender must respect the fact that most men don`t like to engage in sexual activities with another man, even though the other man may have pussy.
3. A transgender must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws. THEY ARE NOT A MAN. What does it take to beat this reality into your head? I've met men more feminine than women, women more masculine than men, transgender people who run the full spectrum themselves. What you are asking them to do is not only bigoted but also shows how insecure you are about your own sexuality. It's pitiful. Pathetic, even. I blame transgenders for my insecure sexuality too. Come on man, instead of finding way of easily increasing penis size, all the medical research these days seems to be centered around exactly the opposite.
Continued sarcasm or not, trans medical research has barely advanced at all in 50 years. They're doing the exact same stuff with the same medications they used in the 70s. They're better at it now, sure, but there is no real trans medical research going on that I know of.
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On March 11 2013 19:13 Kickboxer wrote:
As a moderately tolerant person (has gay acquaintances but not close friends, never ridicules gay people but would be horrified if future child turns out to be one) I think the main problem of the LGBT movement in western countries is their insistence on being perceived as "normal" as opposed to a group of people with a serious albeit 100% harmless defect.
What if you would apply the same logic to another sensitive issue: "I would never ridicule black people, but I'd be horrified if my future child would turn out to be one." (yes, this is a joke :p)
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I think for the purpose of clarity, the OP should mention LGBTQIA (Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, Transexuals, Queer, Intersexuals, Asexuals) in full. It is not encompassing and there are small intrapolitics happening within, but it is what we have.
On the issue of terminology, the problem lies in "where does it end?" These "genders" are so far what we know and what people declare. Should there be a singular all encompassing term for this? What about "Non-heterosexuals"? This is equally problematic in my opinion since it assumes a binary between heterosexuals and non-heterosexuals. Moreover, "non-heterosexuals" is self-defeating in the sense that it lumps together identities that may not be parallel to each other and whose only identification is their opposition to traditional gender assignation.
Further, gender discourse is different from country to country, culture to culture. American gay movement is largely different from say German, or French, or Thai. There is naturally a central logos that animates all these as strands of one big movement, but it is important to acknowledge, and discuss, the different struggles on gender equality that are being fought in the different cultures and contexts.
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It is usually acknowledged that sexuality binaries are only possible in the broadest sense (ie; I'm heterosexual, But I'm not attracted to every type of guy, etc.) Non-binary gender identified individuals (individuals who identify as genderqueer, bigender, gender fluid, etc) also exist too.
Overall, the idea of a true binary is kind of silly. People are so vastly different in both their gender presentation, and their sexual choices.
edit; and the T in LGBT is usually denoting Transgender, not Transsexual. Transgender is another umbrella-like term, encompassing Transsexual, Non-binary identified, Gender queer, Bigender, Gender fluid, Cross-dressing, etc individuals.
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On March 11 2013 14:09 Ansinjunger wrote:Stories of transgender regret (post-surgery in particular). It's not a religious perspective: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.htmlDo's and Don'ts regarding HRT http://www.slideshare.net/Maxisurgeon/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-transgenders-dos-and-donts-6073898Looking these up showed me it's a change to be taken very seriously by the person undergoing HRT or SRS. Many do it to fulfill fantasy or some such. One thing that struck me in one guy's story (he regrets his SRS), was that he regrets listening to all of the encouragement from doctors and what not. There's too much telling him he's brave and not enough asking him if it's really the right choice for him. One may imagine, I also heartily approved of that guy giving the graduation speech telling kids "you're not special." Too much blind optimism and not enough realism will make for some horridly dashed expectations.
no no no no no.
That is so so so much bullshit.
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On March 12 2013 00:13 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 14:09 Ansinjunger wrote:Stories of transgender regret (post-surgery in particular). It's not a religious perspective: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.htmlDo's and Don'ts regarding HRT http://www.slideshare.net/Maxisurgeon/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-transgenders-dos-and-donts-6073898Looking these up showed me it's a change to be taken very seriously by the person undergoing HRT or SRS. Many do it to fulfill fantasy or some such. One thing that struck me in one guy's story (he regrets his SRS), was that he regrets listening to all of the encouragement from doctors and what not. There's too much telling him he's brave and not enough asking him if it's really the right choice for him. One may imagine, I also heartily approved of that guy giving the graduation speech telling kids "you're not special." Too much blind optimism and not enough realism will make for some horridly dashed expectations. no no no no no. That is so so so much bullshit.
Care to explain?
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So after reading a few pages of this thread, I find my self wondering if people understand what tolerance is.
You can think everyone is entitled to same rights while thinking some shit they do is weird. Think it's weird, whatever, who gives a fuck, just don't go as far as to try and deny someone rights.
I think this whole LGBTAXCBSEFDFASDJ thing is getting ridiculous, but that's just because the continued bolting on of additional identities is getting old to me. Everyone deserves equal rights, I agree. Put something in front of me and I'll sign it, but frankly, I get pretty tired of hearing about it all.
My little brother, or sister I suppose, is transgender (is that even the appropriate word?) and when I tried asking him about it he flat out told me he was not going to label himself for the benefit of others.
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On March 12 2013 00:59 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 00:13 fusionsdf wrote:On March 11 2013 14:09 Ansinjunger wrote:Stories of transgender regret (post-surgery in particular). It's not a religious perspective: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.htmlDo's and Don'ts regarding HRT http://www.slideshare.net/Maxisurgeon/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-transgenders-dos-and-donts-6073898Looking these up showed me it's a change to be taken very seriously by the person undergoing HRT or SRS. Many do it to fulfill fantasy or some such. One thing that struck me in one guy's story (he regrets his SRS), was that he regrets listening to all of the encouragement from doctors and what not. There's too much telling him he's brave and not enough asking him if it's really the right choice for him. One may imagine, I also heartily approved of that guy giving the graduation speech telling kids "you're not special." Too much blind optimism and not enough realism will make for some horridly dashed expectations. no no no no no. That is so so so much bullshit. Care to explain?
There are a lot of checks against transsexual individuals seeking transition. The DSM-V guidelines are often strictly followed or over-followed. Even more alarming is that individuals will be refused treatment unless they fit into a very square peg of what is defined as being trans (ie; if you identify as female, but don't like "girly things" or wearing dresses, etc.)
Most surgeons (readas; every one I've ever read up on thus far) requires at least 2 letters from different psychiatrists stating that this individual is in sound rationality and has other medical issues under control (chronic depression or ptsd, for example) and fully comprehends the consequences of said action. After which the surgeons staff will evaluate the patient, and has the chance to again turn them down if they don't think they're rationally aware of the consequences.
Most individuals that regret surgery weren't really trans to begin with, and their transition was based around some event in their life. Charles Kane, for example transitioned because his wife left him. The unfortunate thing is that these individuals believe they end up speaking for all trans people (and those who are happy with outcomes and transition) and the media listens.
Transition (Hormone Replacement Therapy and Genital Reassignment Surgery, for example) has been a very effective cure in lessening or completely removing the symptoms of Gender Dysphoria in a very large portion of individuals suffering.
On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
You can think everyone is entitled to same rights while thinking some shit they do is weird. Think it's weird, whatever, who gives a fuck, just don't go as far as to try and deny someone rights.
I concur. But sadly, this isn't the case. There are many individuals that would rather someone not exist or be granted equality just because they do something they find 'icky' or 'weird'. Lack of empathy is the driving force behind this, sadly.
On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
My little brother, or sister I suppose, is transgender (is that even the appropriate word?) and when I tried asking him about it he flat out told me he was not going to label himself for the benefit of others.
Sorry to hear about such hostilities. How far into transition is she, if you don't mind me asking? I myself was very bitter towards the early staged, and more or less wanted to just be left alone because anytime someone would discuss it they'd only try to put me down or bash me.
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On March 12 2013 01:10 Alay wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 00:59 Ansinjunger wrote:On March 12 2013 00:13 fusionsdf wrote:On March 11 2013 14:09 Ansinjunger wrote:Stories of transgender regret (post-surgery in particular). It's not a religious perspective: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.htmlDo's and Don'ts regarding HRT http://www.slideshare.net/Maxisurgeon/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-transgenders-dos-and-donts-6073898Looking these up showed me it's a change to be taken very seriously by the person undergoing HRT or SRS. Many do it to fulfill fantasy or some such. One thing that struck me in one guy's story (he regrets his SRS), was that he regrets listening to all of the encouragement from doctors and what not. There's too much telling him he's brave and not enough asking him if it's really the right choice for him. One may imagine, I also heartily approved of that guy giving the graduation speech telling kids "you're not special." Too much blind optimism and not enough realism will make for some horridly dashed expectations. no no no no no. That is so so so much bullshit. Care to explain? There are a lot of checks against transsexual individuals seeking transition. The DSM-V guidelines are often strictly followed or over-followed. Even more alarming is that individuals will be refused treatment unless they fit into a very square peg of what is defined as being trans (ie; if you identify as female, but don't like "girly things" or wearing dresses, etc.) Most surgeons (readas; every one I've ever read up on thus far) requires at least 2 letters from different psychiatrists stating that this individual is in sound rationality and has other medical issues under control (chronic depression or ptsd, for example) and fully comprehends the consequences of said action. After which the surgeons staff will evaluate the patient, and has the chance to again turn them down if they don't think they're rationally aware of the consequences. Most individuals that regret surgery weren't really trans to begin with, and their transition was based around some event in their life. Charles Kane, for example transitioned because his wife left him. The unfortunate thing is that these individuals believe they end up speaking for all trans people (and those who are happy with outcomes and transition) and the media listens. Transition (Hormone Replacement Therapy and Genital Reassignment Surgery, for example) has been a very effective cure in lessening or completely removing the symptoms of Gender Dysphoria in a very large portion of individuals suffering. Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
You can think everyone is entitled to same rights while thinking some shit they do is weird. Think it's weird, whatever, who gives a fuck, just don't go as far as to try and deny someone rights.
I concur. But sadly, this isn't the case. There are many individuals that would rather someone not exist or be granted equality just because they do something they find 'icky' or 'weird'. Lack of empathy is the driving force behind this, sadly. Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
My little brother, or sister I suppose, is transgender (is that even the appropriate word?) and when I tried asking him about it he flat out told me he was not going to label himself for the benefit of others. Sorry to hear about such hostilities. How far into transition is she, if you don't mind me asking? I myself was very bitter towards the early staged, and more or less wanted to just be left alone because anytime someone would discuss it they'd only try to put me down or bash me.
Well I'm not too sure how you determine how far a long someone is on a path like that, but she's still the way she was when she was born. That is to say, still physically fully a guy.
Anyway, I'd not go as far as saying she's bitter or angry or even hostile. She has tons of friends and they all accept her for what she is. Same for where she works. She just thinks labels are another way to intentionally segregate your self. And, really, I'm inclined to agree.
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On March 12 2013 01:10 Alay wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 00:59 Ansinjunger wrote:On March 12 2013 00:13 fusionsdf wrote:On March 11 2013 14:09 Ansinjunger wrote:Stories of transgender regret (post-surgery in particular). It's not a religious perspective: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.htmlDo's and Don'ts regarding HRT http://www.slideshare.net/Maxisurgeon/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-transgenders-dos-and-donts-6073898Looking these up showed me it's a change to be taken very seriously by the person undergoing HRT or SRS. Many do it to fulfill fantasy or some such. One thing that struck me in one guy's story (he regrets his SRS), was that he regrets listening to all of the encouragement from doctors and what not. There's too much telling him he's brave and not enough asking him if it's really the right choice for him. One may imagine, I also heartily approved of that guy giving the graduation speech telling kids "you're not special." Too much blind optimism and not enough realism will make for some horridly dashed expectations. no no no no no. That is so so so much bullshit. Care to explain? There are a lot of checks against transsexual individuals seeking transition. The DSM-V guidelines are often strictly followed or over-followed. Even more alarming is that individuals will be refused treatment unless they fit into a very square peg of what is defined as being trans (ie; if you identify as female, but don't like "girly things" or wearing dresses, etc.) Most surgeons (readas; every one I've ever read up on thus far) requires at least 2 letters from different psychiatrists stating that this individual is in sound rationality and has other medical issues under control (chronic depression or ptsd, for example) and fully comprehends the consequences of said action. After which the surgeons staff will evaluate the patient, and has the chance to again turn them down if they don't think they're rationally aware of the consequences. Most individuals that regret surgery weren't really trans to begin with, and their transition was based around some event in their life. Charles Kane, for example transitioned because his wife left him. The unfortunate thing is that these individuals believe they end up speaking for all trans people (and those who are happy with outcomes and transition) and the media listens. Transition (Hormone Replacement Therapy and Genital Reassignment Surgery, for example) has been a very effective cure in lessening or completely removing the symptoms of Gender Dysphoria in a very large portion of individuals suffering. Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
You can think everyone is entitled to same rights while thinking some shit they do is weird. Think it's weird, whatever, who gives a fuck, just don't go as far as to try and deny someone rights.
I concur. But sadly, this isn't the case. There are many individuals that would rather someone not exist or be granted equality just because they do something they find 'icky' or 'weird'. Lack of empathy is the driving force behind this, sadly. Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
My little brother, or sister I suppose, is transgender (is that even the appropriate word?) and when I tried asking him about it he flat out told me he was not going to label himself for the benefit of others. Sorry to hear about such hostilities. How far into transition is she, if you don't mind me asking? I myself was very bitter towards the early staged, and more or less wanted to just be left alone because anytime someone would discuss it they'd only try to put me down or bash me.
The way I saw it, those people are from older times, when there was less experience around the issue, but it's still a valuable warning, plus to all the people not sure with the Do's and Don'ts, not self-medicating, etc.
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On March 11 2013 23:45 Alay wrote:
It is usually acknowledged that sexuality binaries are only possible in the broadest sense (ie; I'm heterosexual, But I'm not attracted to every type of guy, etc.) Non-binary gender identified individuals (individuals who identify as genderqueer, bigender, gender fluid, etc) also exist too.
Overall, the idea of a true binary is kind of silly. People are so vastly different in both their gender presentation, and their sexual choices.
edit; and the T in LGBT is usually denoting Transgender, not Transsexual. Transgender is another umbrella-like term, encompassing Transsexual, Non-binary identified, Gender queer, Bigender, Gender fluid, Cross-dressing, etc individuals.
isn't transition just a means to fit in that silly binary gender role?. else why would you transition in the first place.
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On March 12 2013 01:31 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 01:10 Alay wrote:On March 12 2013 00:59 Ansinjunger wrote:On March 12 2013 00:13 fusionsdf wrote:On March 11 2013 14:09 Ansinjunger wrote:Stories of transgender regret (post-surgery in particular). It's not a religious perspective: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.htmlDo's and Don'ts regarding HRT http://www.slideshare.net/Maxisurgeon/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-transgenders-dos-and-donts-6073898Looking these up showed me it's a change to be taken very seriously by the person undergoing HRT or SRS. Many do it to fulfill fantasy or some such. One thing that struck me in one guy's story (he regrets his SRS), was that he regrets listening to all of the encouragement from doctors and what not. There's too much telling him he's brave and not enough asking him if it's really the right choice for him. One may imagine, I also heartily approved of that guy giving the graduation speech telling kids "you're not special." Too much blind optimism and not enough realism will make for some horridly dashed expectations. no no no no no. That is so so so much bullshit. Care to explain? There are a lot of checks against transsexual individuals seeking transition. The DSM-V guidelines are often strictly followed or over-followed. Even more alarming is that individuals will be refused treatment unless they fit into a very square peg of what is defined as being trans (ie; if you identify as female, but don't like "girly things" or wearing dresses, etc.) Most surgeons (readas; every one I've ever read up on thus far) requires at least 2 letters from different psychiatrists stating that this individual is in sound rationality and has other medical issues under control (chronic depression or ptsd, for example) and fully comprehends the consequences of said action. After which the surgeons staff will evaluate the patient, and has the chance to again turn them down if they don't think they're rationally aware of the consequences. Most individuals that regret surgery weren't really trans to begin with, and their transition was based around some event in their life. Charles Kane, for example transitioned because his wife left him. The unfortunate thing is that these individuals believe they end up speaking for all trans people (and those who are happy with outcomes and transition) and the media listens. Transition (Hormone Replacement Therapy and Genital Reassignment Surgery, for example) has been a very effective cure in lessening or completely removing the symptoms of Gender Dysphoria in a very large portion of individuals suffering. On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
You can think everyone is entitled to same rights while thinking some shit they do is weird. Think it's weird, whatever, who gives a fuck, just don't go as far as to try and deny someone rights.
I concur. But sadly, this isn't the case. There are many individuals that would rather someone not exist or be granted equality just because they do something they find 'icky' or 'weird'. Lack of empathy is the driving force behind this, sadly. On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
My little brother, or sister I suppose, is transgender (is that even the appropriate word?) and when I tried asking him about it he flat out told me he was not going to label himself for the benefit of others. Sorry to hear about such hostilities. How far into transition is she, if you don't mind me asking? I myself was very bitter towards the early staged, and more or less wanted to just be left alone because anytime someone would discuss it they'd only try to put me down or bash me. The way I saw it, those people are from older times, when there was less experience around the issue, but it's still a valuable warning, plus to all the people not sure with the Do's and Don'ts, not self-medicating, etc.
I feel like this thread is perfect example of why there is plenty of warning about the dangers of transitioning. You've got an entire society of people telling you not to transition, that transsexualism isn't a real thing, that trans women are "deceivers" who trick men into sleeping with them. And someone is worried because a doctor might have "encouraged" it? As if one person could overcome an entire societal prejudice? That, to me, is absurd.
That being said, no competent therapist or doctor will ever encourage a person to transition. That is because no one can diagnose a person as a trans* except the person themselves.
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On March 12 2013 01:31 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 01:10 Alay wrote:On March 12 2013 00:59 Ansinjunger wrote:On March 12 2013 00:13 fusionsdf wrote:On March 11 2013 14:09 Ansinjunger wrote:Stories of transgender regret (post-surgery in particular). It's not a religious perspective: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.htmlDo's and Don'ts regarding HRT http://www.slideshare.net/Maxisurgeon/hormone-replacement-therapy-for-transgenders-dos-and-donts-6073898Looking these up showed me it's a change to be taken very seriously by the person undergoing HRT or SRS. Many do it to fulfill fantasy or some such. One thing that struck me in one guy's story (he regrets his SRS), was that he regrets listening to all of the encouragement from doctors and what not. There's too much telling him he's brave and not enough asking him if it's really the right choice for him. One may imagine, I also heartily approved of that guy giving the graduation speech telling kids "you're not special." Too much blind optimism and not enough realism will make for some horridly dashed expectations. no no no no no. That is so so so much bullshit. Care to explain? There are a lot of checks against transsexual individuals seeking transition. The DSM-V guidelines are often strictly followed or over-followed. Even more alarming is that individuals will be refused treatment unless they fit into a very square peg of what is defined as being trans (ie; if you identify as female, but don't like "girly things" or wearing dresses, etc.) Most surgeons (readas; every one I've ever read up on thus far) requires at least 2 letters from different psychiatrists stating that this individual is in sound rationality and has other medical issues under control (chronic depression or ptsd, for example) and fully comprehends the consequences of said action. After which the surgeons staff will evaluate the patient, and has the chance to again turn them down if they don't think they're rationally aware of the consequences. Most individuals that regret surgery weren't really trans to begin with, and their transition was based around some event in their life. Charles Kane, for example transitioned because his wife left him. The unfortunate thing is that these individuals believe they end up speaking for all trans people (and those who are happy with outcomes and transition) and the media listens. Transition (Hormone Replacement Therapy and Genital Reassignment Surgery, for example) has been a very effective cure in lessening or completely removing the symptoms of Gender Dysphoria in a very large portion of individuals suffering. On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
You can think everyone is entitled to same rights while thinking some shit they do is weird. Think it's weird, whatever, who gives a fuck, just don't go as far as to try and deny someone rights.
I concur. But sadly, this isn't the case. There are many individuals that would rather someone not exist or be granted equality just because they do something they find 'icky' or 'weird'. Lack of empathy is the driving force behind this, sadly. On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
My little brother, or sister I suppose, is transgender (is that even the appropriate word?) and when I tried asking him about it he flat out told me he was not going to label himself for the benefit of others. Sorry to hear about such hostilities. How far into transition is she, if you don't mind me asking? I myself was very bitter towards the early staged, and more or less wanted to just be left alone because anytime someone would discuss it they'd only try to put me down or bash me. The way I saw it, those people are from older times, when there was less experience around the issue, but it's still a valuable warning, plus to all the people not sure with the Do's and Don'ts, not self-medicating, etc.
Oh sure. Those stories are just sadly often taken to hyperbole as "transition never works for anyone" by many individuals.
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On March 12 2013 00:59 WTFZerg wrote:
So after reading a few pages of this thread, I find my self wondering if people understand what tolerance is.
You can think everyone is entitled to same rights while thinking some shit they do is weird. Think it's weird, whatever, who gives a fuck, just don't go as far as to try and deny someone rights.
I think this whole LGBTAXCBSEFDFASDJ thing is getting ridiculous, but that's just because the continued bolting on of additional identities is getting old to me. Everyone deserves equal rights, I agree. Put something in front of me and I'll sign it, but frankly, I get pretty tired of hearing about it all.
Similar boat, except personally I still think all this stuff is pretty weird and I dont understand much of it (neither do I care much for any of it, to be quite honest). What I do understand though, and do care for, is the idea that everyone deserves the same basic rights as everyone else.
It's somewhat of a bittersweet feeling for me personally. I've never really enjoyed the company of anyone from LGBT, and here in the Philippines we have some particularly flamboyant characters that bother me-- but we're all people. Not my job, nor my right to tell them what they can/can't do simply because I dont like it.
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seems ironical to me, whether its gay marriage or transitioning or even women (cause you know equality between genders has not yet been reached in occident), the ones willing to restrict gender rights are also the first one to blame the state for "invading" their lives and restricting their individual rights (conservatives, right-wing). at the end of the day, what is worth your opinion... it's none of your business if the guy/girl wants to transition or the gays want to marry. the only logical answer for this kind of behavior is ignorance/fear.
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I don't really care one way or the other.
But I have to say that the importance of gay marriage, transgender rights gets overestimated very much in our societies. You have politically discussions in the western world several times a year for quite some time. These people get instrumentalized by the political sphere to avoid topics with much greater importance for the respective societies as a whole. Let's be honest how many percent of the population are directly influenced by legislature regarding gay marriage, transgender rights et al?
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EPT
